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Itrr, your mother's self-created morass is very sad indeed.

You will do the right thing, I have no doubt!
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Good news! The latest culture shows no growth.

God is good!
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RR, I would not travel to her (again, how far will you have to go?) if she will not allow the MD to speak to you. That would make me HIGHLY suspicious. It would mean you are getting HER version of stuff, and not the professionals. At this point, from what you say of her tendencies to manipulate, I am afraid she is just trying to get you into her sphere so she can try to work you; she's likely into the disruption.
I know it's just what I personally would do, but I would sit tight a while. This is like no other perforated bowel I ever heard of (tho there's lots I haven't heard of to be certain). The RN telling you she had a stool so she is eating? Stools are mostly made up of bacteria. We often have them when we haven't eaten for days. Surely the RN knows whether she is eating or not. And again, to me, just offhand hearing this, it seems early.
I will leave it to you. Just sticking my 2 cents in. You know me!
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Barb, I pray I will know the right thing.

Alva, the nurse said that her clear liquid diet was being changed because she had a bm yesterday, 8 days after surgery. Is that to soon?

I honestly have no idea the trajectory of this issue. The information I have is from the nurses and the PCP/GP that are treating her in the hospital. Are they completely incompetent? Possibly but, I believe The Lord has moved on the scene and that makes for miracles.

You could not be more on target with her trying to get me in her sphere to work on me. I am always aware of that purpose in everything she does. :-( I won't believe anything she tells me about the medical issue, I have to hear it from a professional or it's her trying to work me.

When I spoke with her earlier she told me that they left her in a feces filled depends for hours and that they weren't doing anything for her pain, when I said I will talk to the nurse she immediately said not to. Red flag on the BS meter went full sail.

She seriously thinks she can get around my boundaries. It is kinda sad to watch the depths she will sink to trying to do this.

What she doesn't ever get, just be honest and sincere and say what you mean and mean what you say and things could be different. I know she will only change if she wants it but, I am not moving my boundaries, even if she did, it would have to stick for a long time before I trusted it.

I love my mom but, I am a grown woman with my own life. I can not take responsibility for her choices, I can not get sucked into her quagmire, I worked far to hard for my life and boundaries to let anyone destroy them or me.

Oops, almost forgot again, I am 450 miles away, it is a 9 hour drive. I could fly but, that means I can't leave at the drop of a hat and I never see her without that option.
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itrr - You've got this! You have a very good understanding of your mother's dynamics. I am glad she is out of pain and progressing well. I understand that her account may (will?) not be accurate. Been there. I know things can get very convoluted, but you have a clear and realistic mind. You are being sure to look after yourself in this too as you should. I did travel down for some of mother's medical events but not for all. When she had her second hip replacement she simply wanted an audience. She had more than adequate care without me. I didn't go. I knew her agenda was to discharge herself from rehab early and for me to stay with her and look after her. Didn't happen and she was fine. I know you will make the right decisions. (((((hugs))) to you
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ITRR: Just sending you hugs tonight.💜💜
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wishing you well, itrr!!
huggggs.
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Prayers for you to be comforted ITTR.
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Sending you strength!
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ITRR, just read your update, we may not know each other but I’m still proud of you for caring for mom while still protecting yourself. You’re a wise caregiver to know the situation so well and how to navigate it all. Prayers continue for both you and mom
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ITRR
Sometimes it helps me to consider life events metaphysically. Your mom has friends who are resting up while she is in care and who did (eventually)let you know she was ill. Her medical needs for now are being looked after and you are comforted by your faith. A lot is going right.
Your dear friend has passed and as you mourn that loss you are given an acute awareness of your vulnerable mom. I relate to that as I have lost “almost” all of my elder guides and way-showers. Sometimes I feel on the front lines. Not in a negative way. Just in acknowledgment and wonder of the cycle of life progressing.
Regardless of all real and perceived issues, she is your mom.
We only have the one though we often find the bits missing in others. The work you have done on that is apparent and you are not likely to abandon your protection. You are strong.
Keep us updated. We all really do care.
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Thanks for your updates, RR. It helps us to keep you in thoughts, hearts and minds as we follow your journey in this.
I think you are handling this absolutely spot on perfect. You know your mom well and you have learned the hard way; you aren't open to manipulation and self- doubt that keeps you confused and impotent.
No, if it is 8 days after surgery it sounds like it is good time for the food. And I understand now what the RN meant by she is having stools so the bowel is on the move; they are likely hearing good roaring bowel sounds when they listen with a stethoscope; they will know how and when to give the solids and what to watch and listen for (they monitor for bloat, for no bowel sounds, for nausea. They will in fact not want to overmedicate Mom for pain as they need her to cooperate, to deep breathe, to walk with them, to keep the bowel awake and active. So she can expect a bit of pain and you may need to remind her that life's FULL of it (pain that is).
She sounds strong as you are in her own way. Not easy to get along with, but strong. My favorite patients were often those that would do anything to "get me", even using their canes to threaten. They were lively, stubborn and engaged, and they usually got well quick.
This sounds to be going so well I am almost afraid to hope, to relax. I sure hope the good news continues. And were I you I would just SIT TIGHT and send a HUGE bouquet and pretty cards. But that's me. I sure support your doing what your own gut tells you. I love that picture of the BS flag suddenly popping up.
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No return phone calls from the hospital today. Don't know if it is her or them being super busy.

Her friend texted that she is looking better and asking about moving in with them. Her friend is texting me with the cost of ALs she knows about, how little my mom has and saying she doesn't want to tell my mom that she can't live with them. So, apparently I am suppose to be the answer so they don't have to be honest. Hahaha! She obviously didn't get the memo about what a no good daughter I am. I own it! What a great way to get out of being her solution, just owning what she has said about me. Win-win, I can validate her by saying she's right, I'm a rotten daughter and I don't have to move her in, because I'm a rotten daughter, it's good to know where you stand.

I saw this coming, I just expected it to start after she went to rehab. Then again, she didn't ask me, it's her friend trying to get out of saying no. Sorry, I believed you when you showed me who you were. They will either tell her no or have a new housemate all by their lonesome.
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Itrr, I'm hoping no calls from the hospital is good news! If things were going south, they would be in touch.

So, the flying monkeys are coming out!

She'll go to a rehab she chooses with the help of her friends and discharge planning at the hospital. And then she will have to figure of what her SS and Medicaid will pay for in terms of a ltc facility.
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RR, I am hoping you are not her POA, and you don't BECOME her POA. You will be familiar with my advice to others. Let the Social Workers and her State take on her care. You may want to call Social Services if you have any "standing" to do so, or you may want to suggest to her MD, or her "friends" (who will have to learn to open their mouths on their own) or your Mom herself that they need to contact social services. Please don't get sucked into this.
EMBRACE your "bad daughter" status. Quite honestly once you just tell people you have tried a lifetime to get along with someone and now recognize you are not physically nor mentally able to deal with them it is SUCH A RELIEF. You are free.
I think we can say Mom is thriving. Our prayers are answered!
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No news again today. I called the hospital at 5am and the nurse would only tell me that she had rested well. Good to know, I think.

Her friend and I talked at length today. I think there was an understanding reached that my mom is free to choose whatever she wants, that DOES NOT obligate me to follow, it doesn't obligate her to follow. If she doesn't want her to move in, tell her, I WILL NOT be pulled into anything that is between them or makes me look like a solution.

I explained that I have been asking her what her plan is since her husband got very sick 11 years ago, I offered to pay for her end of life documents and she refused to make a plan, which is a plan to fail, she told me she had done POAs and it was them she chose. Which, turns out was only said to shut me up. How's that working out for you mom?

I made in clear that I will not be coming up without information. I'm not spending 3 to 5 hundred dollars a day to visit the hospital.

I made it clear how to find a senior placement specialist and that my mom has all the decision making powers, period.

I pointed out that my mom is asking this HUGE thing before she has even been released from the hospital, hasn't had any rehab and lied about being told she couldn't live alone, she doesn't want too, for the absolute maximum sympathy effect. It is a manipulation tactic. I'm not being manipulated by the obvious attempt. Gonna have to do better then that.

Oh, and I made it clear that any assets she owns can not be transferred or she will incur a Medicaid penalty and that would obligate them to giving her a home. They want her trailer when she dies or before.

I will NEVER be her POA, that bridge was burned by her and I am not rebuilding it and she won't even try.

I will check out rehab and board and care facilities for her, if she asks, otherwise, I have tons going on and I can't leave just because.

Oh, her friend told me that the oncologist told her that they removed the mass and got it all, according to the biopsy on the margins. Nothing about the lesions on her liver, who knows for sure? Not me!

My mom is a bullheadedness, know it all and she will do it her way, no matter what. That is her decision, my decision is to keep strong boundaries, deal with this as I do everything, get information and form a plan. If I don't get informed, I can't create a plan to go help, so I stay home and tend to my life.

Sad but, choices have consequences.

Again, I truly appreciate everyone that has offered support. It's good to have others that have walked the path helping. Thank you all!
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Hospital may not give you any info without POA and stuff. May be just as well. You know how she's feeling and what she's eating and this point assume she is doing well unless they let you know she isn't. I am relieved she's better, and I am hoping you can soon get on with your own life. She's of an age, so I guess anything can happen, and likely any time, but it is sure looking like she's dodged this bullet, which is great news.
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Alva, that's where I am at. No news is good news.

I think that her friend understands now and knows that I'm not the monster my mom has portrayed me to be.

I am not without compassion for her. I imagine this is very scary and I truly pray that she regains a quality of life that is worth living. I hope that she learns to be alone with herself and find a path forward. I pray she learns that others should be treated kindly and not belittled with every word, mostly I pray that she has an Epiphany that this isn't it.

I believe that I will be led to whatever I am called to do and that it will be for her good.
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Update: so yesterday I wasn't getting any information, had not been able to get my mom to answer the phone since Thursday and no return phone calls from the hospital.

I finally reached someone that was able to tell me that I am no longer an emergency contact and I have to have a security code to access any of her medical information.

I had that person go to my mom's room and get her to answer the phone.

She did this. She cut my flow of information off.

I know she did this because I will NOT let her move into my house, nor will I move there to be her caregiver.

She has always had the attitude that you do it her way or she will punish you. She doesn't realize that her punishment only hurts her.

Her friends daughter is freaking out because she is being manipulated by her mom and my mom to step up and help. She works full-time, takes care of her parents and has my mom's dogs, she doesn't have the time to do the things I was preparing to do for my mom's care. She is mad that my mom won't accept the help I can give, all or nothing for my mom. Okay, nothing it is, because all isn't even an option with me.

Please keep her in your prayers. She could do a multitude of things that are a detriment to herself, just to be spiteful.

Thank you all for all the support.
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Such a shame.
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ITRR, mom must not be doing to badly to continue to try to manipulate the way she is. I feel badly for the friend's daughter, stuck in the middle.

Hugs to you.
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When we were struggling to find discipline boundaries for our wild first son (back when he was a HS freshman) I found a book that summed it up so clearly. Discipline (consequences of our actions) should be:
- clear
- swift
- fair/appropriate

What does this have to do with your Mom's treatment of you? Choice. We give our children the "lay of the land" up front, in advance, so that whatever they do going forward, they are either choosing the reward or punishment themselves. This takes the burden and pain of the punishment/outcome off the parent. And hopefully a poignent lesson is learned.

Your Mom is a full-grown adult woman who ought to be mature at this point. You've shown her the lay of the land in terms of your participating in her care. Whatever she is now doing is of her own choosing. This is what you tell her (or anyone else) who comes complaining or criticizing you.
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Glad, I do too.

I have been completely transparent with her and I have encouraged her to say no. She isn't obligated to support bad choices. I don't think she knows how to say no. Hopefully I am wrong.

I think she has been groomed to obey her narcissistic mom, no matter what. She's my age and has never fledged the nest.

The situation truly hurts my heart for her. She knew and agreed that my game plan was the most beneficial help I could give my mom right now. She's frustrated that my mom cut off her own nose to spite me.

My mom is getting better from the surgery, it's the cancer and the metastatic lesions that are my unknown. Yea, she could rip my face off, so I know she is a ok and will move forward, wherever that is.

Thanks for the hug and support.
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I'm sorry for this ongoing nonsense & drama your mother is subjecting you to, ITRR. I agree with glad; mom must not be doing too badly to continue to try to manipulate the way she is. Perhaps consider this a blessing that she's chosen to 'punish' you this way, and let her do her own thing. You can't save a person from herself, nor can you make her see the light. I'm surprised she has a nose left for spitefully cutting it off of her face so many times. :(
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Geaton, I agree. I have made it very clear what help I can provide.

Can not really help anyone that thinks it's all their way or not at all.

It is a sad situation, for sure.

Lea, I do count this as answered prayer. I needed confirmation of what I should do and I believe this was the second confirmation I got.

My boundaries include not going to help without a plan and plans require information. No information, no plan, no trip.
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Sending prayers
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ITRR,
You are a good example for the rest of us.

Thank you for sharing your journey.

I’m glad you have gotten the confirmation that you were seeking. 🙏
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There is no surprise in your mom continuing to be her own worst enemy, RR. I am glad that you are standing your ground. As she has cut off information I am THRILLED you will not be attempting a trip. I don't have any idea your mom's age, RR, nor even your own. I am 80. At some point we are all going, and at this point no one is writing my obit to have someone ELSE say "Oh, my, she died so young". It's too late for me to go young and beautiful and I suspect the same of your mom. But it isn't too late for her to go STUBBORN, nor me either.
Your Mom has made her own choices. And that's what her friends need to do as well. Remember Beatty and her wonderful thing you can tell the friends: "For Mom there will be no solutions as long as YOU are all the solutions". She has them running about like chickens with the heads cut off, and I am certain she would like to add you to the hens. I am seriously glad she has them, but I don't want her to get her hands on you.
You are much nicer than I am but for me this would be full stop. I would tell your mom to give me a ring or ask doc or friends to call whenever she likes, that I am always around, but I would be dog-goned if I would myself make another call whatsoever. A nice card. A pretty bouquet. And that's it.
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ITRR, there are soooo many on this forum who I truly hope are reading your story and updates, not just reading it, but truly taking it in as there is so much wisdom in it. You’re exemplifying good boundaries and protecting yourself while still very much concerned for your mother. You’re showing others that it’s quite doable to maintain your own health and not cave in to unreasonable demands. Your mother may never be able to admit or acknowledge it, but you’ve been a great daughter to her and she’s blessed that you care. I’m sorry the road hasn’t been easier for you, but so glad for your steadfastness and courage under fire
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ITRR,

You have offered help on your terms. I think your mom knows that you’re not ever going to be a pushover but sadly, it’s not going to stop her from trying!

I know that you’re glad that she’s doing better in spite of the unknown details of her cancer. At this point in time, all you can do is take it one day at the time.
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