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Hi, all you wonderful women and Doug and good husbands. (Hi to other men, too, if you're there - just doesn't sound like you are). Way back, in April or May, someone said Lisa's story should be a book and while that may have happened, since I've only read through post 500-something, plus about the last week's worth, let me just say, this IS a book - remember the serial stories magazines used to publish. This would do Dickens proud! Truly good characters; truly evil characters; dramatic story lines; hope springs eternal. Lisa and Doug and Jen and Beth, next Derby I'll be drinking a mint julep toast to you. Cat and Rebecca and Judy and Emjo and Kimbee and Ladee, and same to you. I'm sorry if I missed other regulars - sometimes I get so caught up in the story that I forget to look who is writing. Cat, I know the wedding will be/was (?) quite wonderful. Your granddaughter is so lucky to have you. I don't know yet if there are pictures on this site, but sure am wanting to see some!

Kimbee, there's a great gadget to go with cameras: the Gorillapod - it will hold a camera anywhere!

I need to be doing real work, yet for the third (extended) session in a row, find myself needing to catch up on this thread. My sibs and I will have an intervention with Mom next weekend, which I expect will only be the beginning of a new cycle, so Lisa and all of you are an inspiration and a reminder of my many blessings. Your love and care for each other comes through like a rainbow. Thank you for your dedication and unceasing commitment. Kathleen
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Kathleen-tell us more aboutthe intervention with Mom I thin it is great I assume you have an outcome you hope to obtain-is your whole family getting involved-how do you think it will turn-it is great if the sibs if any are on the same page-looking forward to hearing about what happens-I have seen them on tv usually with lots of drama.
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Hi Kate!!! Welcome!!!! Hi everyone!!! Wow, this week has felt so long. First 2 weeks are hell trying to get used to getting up at 3:45. Planned on sleeping in this morning, but my bandit had different ideas. Threw himself across my neck whining so here I am. Have a lot of reading to catch up on. The ky state fair is here so Doug and I are going today. Beautiful weather.

Update on DQ: made the nursing staff in rehab call an ambulance to take her back to hospital. This time she managed to get them to move her to the rehab she's gone to for years. Her claim was she was mistreated. So Peggy called. What I got out of our conversation was that the facility has concerns about her living there on her own. That she has not been successful in her placement. I just knew this was coming. So it's time to get on the phone and call Beth and send her to this other rehab and discuss her options with her if she's asked to leave. I'm sure they will have to find other placement. She dosen't qualify for round the clock nursing, which I'm positive that's her aim with all her bullshit over the past months. I do know one thing for certain. SHE WILL NEVER COME BACK IN MY HOME!!! I only work for 3 hours Monday, then school starts tuesday. I'll get on the phone to make sure this Beth knows where she is now and send her there. I

I sure have missed you guys and I'll catch up with everyone when we get home from the fair. Have a great day my friends!!! Lisa
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Lisa that is unbelievable but I am sure you are not surprised -maybe in her crazy mind she thinks you will have to take her back into your home-she may still think you have to do that for her-remember it's not my problem-keep us posted on your saga.
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Oh, boy. I bet Austin's right, that your mom believes she can somehow force you back into taking her in. You knew when you finally got her out of the house, that it wasn't going to be all rosy, but, man, I had no idea just how much drama, deception and manipulation DQ had in store for you. How do you get UN-involved in all of this? Isn't there a point where they stop calling you? Is this what Beth is supposed to facilitate? She's out of your house but not out of your hair, you know? I'm sitting here shaking my head with my eyebrows furrowed in a most unattractive way, just thinking about this. Do you remember that PigPen character on the Snoopy cartoon? The guy who always had a cloud of dirt around him? This is how I picture DQ, with a shitstorm circling her instead of dirt. No disrespect, my friend, but that's my visual.
I hope you have a great time at the fair. Ours is always in October, when the temps finally become bearable to be walking around outside. I heard they had deep fried scorpions on the menu last year. I've got a few they can cook up, for sure. Sick. I've always wanted to try that fried twinkie though... Leave it to me to start a topic and then somehow twist it into food! This diet is making me crazy. Well, Lisa, I hope you're not too tired and busy with work this week to keep us posted. I miss you when you're not around. Keeping you in my thoughts, as always. xx, J.
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Lisa - hope you've had a great day at the Fair! As you'll probably have gathered, I live in Kentucky, too, just east of L'ville as a matter of fact, so am enjoying greatly this fabulous weather day and weekend - hope to get caught up on some gardening that has gone undone way too long.

Judy: spoiler alert! this next paragraph offers a pretty terrible food visual! It's actually one that always discourages me from eating for a while! And, meanwhile, will enjoy thinking about all those fair food goodies - weren't there deep-friend Krispy Kreme doughnut hamburgers last year?

Austin, thank you for your interest in our situation. We are, so far, much more fortunate than many other folks, but Mom's alcoholism and her co-dependent friend have come to a point where steps have to be taken. I've been doing research on legal implications in Texas, where she lives, and am going to search to see if some other threads have information on all the things we need to think about and, I guess, start a new thread, so this one stays focused appropriately. is it the case on this site that everyone has more or less her own thread, and follows others? All help appreciated. Cheers to all. KK
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that's what i want to know; when the hell do they STOP CALLING! i mean really, just what the heck do you have to do? haven't you done enough? i certainly think so! enough is enough, these people are really stupid. emotional IQ of zero.
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Oh...my...God.... fried Krispy Kreme doughnuts... I wouldn't want the burger, but the results of pigging out on the re-fried doughnuts would live on my ass and thighs forever... You're torturing me, KentuckyKate... I didn't heed your spoiler alert. I'll be thinking this one over all day. Deep fried Krispy Kremes... omg...
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Judy, they don't refry the doughnuts. They fry the burger, dress it with the works, and use the glazed crispy creme doughnuts as buns. And yes, they are selling them again this year. The grossest glob of crap I've ever seen. We had a wonderful time at the fair. Doug said honey, I think it's beer 30. We walk over to the miller lite tent and to our surprise dougs cousin Debbie was there. Her husban is in the band. We had met his fellow band members at funerals but never had the chance to mingle socially. It was just great. And the sing the oldies. They gave a tribute to every branch of the armed forces, and each tribute all of these men and women stood. Then we left the fair and headed to our favorite steak house and had a nice dinner. I have missed these days of being together. We are trying to get the mind set we can do this again.

JOAN: HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!!! I hope it's magical!!!! Be back in a bit everyone. Any updates on Rebecca. I am so worried!
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Back from never-never land finally, with at least a few toes in reality. Got wiped by a candida flareup just before the tree drama which meant I didn't sleep properly when I most needed to. One of the effects of the candida. Oh well, this too shall pass, and I will pass on krispy kreme deep fried anythings - gluten and dairy allergies have their benefits.
Lisa, hope you had a great day at the fair and with the cows. Gary says cows are like cats - they don't care, while horses are like dogs and want to please. They are all bigger than me, and I respect that. I think the DQ will always be trying to drag you back into her drama - it is the nature of the illness. If she doesn't she may be going down hill.seriously. The difference will be made by those around her, and how they deal with her, or don't. It does seem like the message is getting through. It may be correct that she is not suited for where she is. It is their job - social services, the county etc to figure out where she should be. They know the resources available, and who fits where. Unfortuately, personality disorders were not planned for in many parts of this world. I have wondered if mother could not cope where she is now, what the alternative would be.She is too healthy for a nursing home at present, and she doesn't have dementia, so not suited for a ward of that nature. What do you do with a bright, relatively healthy senior with a personality disorder? They are difficult to manage, and to place. Your mum is worse than mine, with a drug addiction, and the mouth of a sailor, so that may dictate where she goes. In any case. it is "not your problem", and agreed - she is not going back to your place. You are not running a rehab center or a psychiatric ward.
How are the pils doing?
Fall weather creeping in here slowly. I don't like it! A few leaves are turning yellow :(
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Oh Thank you, Lisa -next week I turn the big 75! Gotta do something wild one of these days to celebrate this year. My dil and middle son are planning a nice supper for us and dil will give me gel nails (my first time) before supper. She is opening her own salon in their house. I am looking forward to being pampered!
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Well heck Joan. I saw on FB someone wish u happy birthday. Then I looked at your info and date wasn't given. Which day next week?
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Hey Lisa - if you click the "about" on my page you will see details! It's Tuesday, and thank you for the Happy Birthday" anytime. It was DT who wished me happy birthday, he used to be on here -but his mum died, I haven't seen him post for a while..
There must be a finish for this --lol
Old caregivers never die, they just...
any ideas - maybe "stop caring"
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I totally understand why you allowed your mother to come live with you, Those of who have suffered abuse from our parents still want their acceptance and approval and we have spent a lifetime trying to get something they cannot give. My mother has always been verbally abusive to me and put me down, And I took it and kept trying harder to get her acceptance. But, through good counseling, I realized she would never change. And what I did was replace my hate and hurt for the way she was to understanding her dysfunction family as a child and that she did the best she knew how with the little knowlege she has. She is a hard core northerner from a strict Catholic French Family and was never given any affedtion, therefore she does not know how to express her love or show affection. And if I cry, she sees this as a weakness. And she never accepted my younger days with bouts of depression. Her attitude was I needed to snap out of it. She has never seen depression as an illness and many people still don't. But, she is 90 and just beginning to experience loneliness and hopelessness. She thinks her long life is a "Curse" rather than the blessing it is. And she has no health problems, still lives alone and drives short distances. But, I can see so many changes lately. She is becoming afraid of being alone and she has never been able to make friends. And just in the last few months, she is trying to hint and let me know I need to allow her to move in with us. And it has been very difficult for me. I have not addressed this issue with her but I am going to have to very soon and there is No way I can let her come live with us. It would be a disaster for my husband, me and my mother. We would not last 30 days and I cannot put myself thought the stress. I have gulity feels, and I am sad and feel selfish at times, but that is when I am thinking with my heart and emotions and not my good sense. It is a shame it cannot work but it would be the worst mistake of my life to say yes.

But, no matter how difficult it may seem, you must get your mother out of your house before she destroys you and your family. There must be some senior government assistanted apartment programs in your area that you can check into. Go find out what it takes for her to qualify and sign her up. And let her know it is that or give her 30 days to find a place. She needs to know she has more than her chance but you are responsible first to your husband and children and it has become unbearable,. You tried but she would not do her part and you simply will not allow this to destroy your family. It is "Tough Love' but it seems many of us older Adult Children are being faced with these sad situations. If she is anything like my mother, she will not accept what you tell her and she will blame you for her unhappiness but they all do. But, you need to read all you can on Verbal abuse, especcailly from our elder parents, They can be very mean and abusive and it will ruin you if you to not get her out. Please do not allow her to try and maek you feel guilty or responsible for her problems. And let her know she has done this to herself and there is nothing more you can do for her. You must protect your children from the lies and trouble she is causing. It may be the most difficult thing you ever have to do, but it is your only choice. You gave her an opportunity and she screwed it up. There is nothing more you can do for her but pray she will learn something from this. But, please know in your heart and mind, this has to be done and do not put it off. I cannot say if she will get over it but the question is to make this decision, enforce and and do not look back. Yes, you will feel terrible, said and like a awful daughter. But, you are not. You are a responsivle Mother and Wife and your family needs you without those problems that could destroy all of you. I am sure you have a State Housing Authority that you can call and find out more about the supplemental programs available. They are usually for 55 and up. And the rent depends on her income. And it is up to her if she chooses to pay her bills and have a place to live. You cannot be her Mother, It is time for her to grown up and learn of suffer the cold hard consequences of her irresponsibility. I am praying for you and that you can find a place for her to move and that God will give you the strength and ability to do what you must do. And I know that God will also give you the peace that passes all understanding. Do not be concerned with what anyone may say or think. Just think of your husband, your marriage and your children's best interest. And your own. If I can help in any way, just let me know. My husband was in charge of our State Housing and I a little about some of the programs available. I feel she should qualify for one of the programs out there. There are many different ones. God Bless you and please do what you know has to be done. It will get better once the hard part is over and she is out. And it is human to feel guilty but you have no reason to be, You are not quilty or anything unless you allow her to say and ruin you and your family. You are a lovely lady and have already done so much more than most. I will not and cannot allow my mother to live with me and I know how bad it has made me feel, but I also know it was the only decision I could make that was best for all of us.

God Bless you and my Prayers are with you.

Sunny in SC:)
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Sunny welcome aboard and I am very glad you have decided not to let your Mom move in with you-our mothers' are very similar and I realize from read all about narcissic mothers and from reading about dysfunical families she will never change no matter what I do or say.
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Sunny - if you read more of the thread you will see that Lisa's mum was moved out quite a while ago. She is still causing trouble, but no taffecting Lisa ad her wonderful family as much as before. I totally agree with you to not move your mother in with you. I made the same promise to myself years ago, as my mother is narcissistic and has Borderline Personality Disorder. Let the guilt go - it is the best decision for all of you.
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Hi All u K A Women, missed u! Going to go back & catch up. Pamela sue: not outdoorsy in the way u mention-loves to mow and learning some hobby-gardening love from me. Thanks tho! He was softball crazed when younger, had to listen to his body n stop. Judy: he would love the helicopter ride (his daughter left her wedding from the cutest little red helicopter). Based on THAT cost, will need to wait for L/S deal! Don't think I'd get him to parachute-I'm afraid of heights n have wanted to go on zipline, he won't do it! Beer brewing? Bad gout, no hops for him! Will explore the photog stuff- that would work! Thanks! KKate: welcome n thx for reading, kind words and gorillapod idea-love it! Glad to hear of upcoming intervention, hope it goes well.
Oh Lisa, grrr! That DQ is persistent in using her limited maladaptive coping strategies. Now that u got her on the co's. radar, maybe they will begin to Recognize her M.O. She has an elaborate ruse, n is a lot of trouble for everyone. By the way, "not adjusting well" is code for she is a PIA and we need to "dump" her somewhere else. She is probably appropriate for high intensity inpatient sub abuse treatment, followed by long term residential treatment. Some experienced NA ninjas on her ass would be so good for her, they'd call her on her crap R n Left!! So much for that summer just for you! Glad u r going to the fair, u n Doug sure deserve a carefree kind of day. I grew up where the co fairs were fabulous, I
Iss them. but, thank u just the same, no Krispy Kreme burgers for me. Sounds like a triple zip code butt or if u ate THAT, yuk! Re-read about DQ-"not successful" means def outta there n will be on J like glue for letting her in the door! Haha. Lisa- so very proud of u! Glad she's NOT coming there. If there is a lapse between placements (frequent problem) STILL Not YOUR problem. Ditto any transport problems! Judy n Austin-stay tuned, more to come for sure, poor u Lisa. Joan, r u fibbing about ur age? Just kidding, proud to have such a fab sista! U r the rockin hot mama and SOO smart! Enjoy those gel nails and ur b-day. Can u get some holly tone on that tree? It's organic so slo release N and really a miracle food. Makes a huge diff in helping a weak tree or shrub. Old caregivers never die, they just have NOTHING left to give? Sunnyshine- u have the perfect built in excuse-chronic illness- no other discussions required. Listen to us when we say this is SO MUCH HARDER than we ever imagined. Even under IDEAL circumstances. I hope u won't set ur self up. Go back n read lisa's whole post: that ought to convince u!

Lots of luv to all of you. Thanks for ur help and get well wishes (keep those cards n letters coming! Think I'll be seeing the dr again. Oh and thanks Joan for the peroxide recipe- going to start w that NOW! Whew... Kim




Thank u for getting up at that ungodly hour(ugh) to give the little "rascals" a great start to their days! I could NOT EVEN do it, so bless u!
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Kimbeeeeeeee!!!! - so glad to hear from you - I gather u r not well yet. Be careful of too many antibiotics -that's what got me the yeast imbalance in my gut, though I know sometimes there are no alternatives, but eat lots of yogurt while u r taking them. I have peroxided myself silly the past few days and my sinuses are better again. I also bought a standing air purifier (hepa filter) which may help people with allergies - like me. Chronic sinus infections tend to lead to bronchitis, so good to get to the root of it.
Your suggestion for treatment for the DQ is right on!!!. Hope the professionals get on top of it.
Can't get Holly tone here in Canada - may be able to order it from the US.
Hope everyone is having a good weekend.
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Lisa and Sunny - hang tough - do yourselves, your husbands and families and your moms a big favor and refuse to have them in your homes.
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Just an idea - my sister worked to years as a court clerk in LA Superior Court system and she sure saw it all....She told me about a situation where the daughter went to court and sought and obtained a protective order (I don't know if that is the exact term legally) but Mom CANNOT contact her at all directly. She (or her attorney) have to go through the court - Mom cannot call, or even send a birthday card. No contact means just that. Would Beth be able to help you here - does she know about getting such an order? This may sound extreme, BUT, in your case, I think it is warranted. I agree that you should not be running a rehab or psychiatric facility. I'm not sure your mom is salvageable, but you don't have the kind of education, experience and distance to be treating her, which is what is involved with her. Please don't take this amiss, but if she is involved in fraud, Medicare scamming, etc. have you considered turning her in? If she were in jail, would she finally get it? How evil and stupid here behavior is? At least someone else would be worrying about where she was and what she was doing. Better her in jail, than you and your family.
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good points, rovana - I agree DQ needs to be handled/treated by experts.she is beyond any point of reason

When my mother had alienated the 24/7 live in nanny we got for her and was wondering what to do, she mentioned coming to stay with me. I considered it, and rejected it, as we do not have the resources to look after her - either personallly or in terms of the medical care she may need, as we have few specialists in this city, and hardly any decent doctors who are taking new patients. She and I talked once and established that the hospital here has a continuing care unit if she needed that kind of care. Coming here would mean she would be near family, as long as we live here.. I have heard good reports of that facility from ex coworkers. It is the most I could do. There is a good chance we will move south closer to her before that is needed anyway, I don't get involved much with her ALF. I figure that is what they are paid for. Not my problem!
Hope everyone is having a good weekend.

ok we have
old caregivers never die they just stop caring
and
old caregivers never die,they just have NOTHING left to give

any others from the KA girls?
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Old caregivers never die, they just give out??
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good one, Kate!
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i love the idea of DQ in jail! hey, three hots and a cot. all free medical, a gym, tv, can't be all bad, LMAO!
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A no-contact order is extreme, and can be difficult to put in place.
I think what you are talking about is called a "Restraining Order".

Restraining Orders can be spelled out in specific language, what is allowed and forbidden in that document.
Sometimes these warranted, but can be a pain to serve on the subject, to get it signed [below story].

Q.: Does a "no contact" [restraining order] still need hard evidence,
before one can be obtained, or, can a threatened person get one based upon their verbal accounting of what they need protected from in the subject person?

I had to get one many years ago, to protect us and our daughter from a "boyfriend" who had begun having drug and mental issues.
The order was based on our dau's. ER visit subsequent to his beating her.
BUT, the police report of the incident, was seriously NOT helpful to our case--it actually protected the perpetrator.

The subject had become very aggressive on a number of occasions.
But since he'd avoided PD records prior, we had thin hard evidence that he did anything illegal, until he did things that could be caught by PD.

The PD in our area at that time, did NOTHING to protect victims of crimes such as the ones he'd done [considered domestic disputes].
They tended to believe the perpetrator's story's, AND, wrote a synopsis of the PD report WRONG.
We learned that a PD report can be AMENDED within I think 48 to 72 hours--cops really hate doing that, but they must.
Make sure whatever PD report gets made of a situation, that the facts are entered into the PD report correctly.
Be prepared to state chapter and verse, and keep your talking points consistent.
Make sure, if possible, that whoever was harmed by the perpetrator, is also present, so they can swear the "amended statement" is correct, and that it needed correcting.
Be prepared to face a cop who is actively working to break you down, make you go away, make you trip up, etc., to avoid changing his initial report.
Remember, COPS are PEOPLE who can make mistakes, and do
---even though they are supposed to be trained observers.

The restraining order was really tough to serve:
---IF we had allowed it to percolate thru the legal system, it NEVER would have been served effectively.
---I had to hand-carry it [after lots of time on phone trying to track down where he'd gotten taken, from a system unwilling to divulge that information]
... to the jail to get a deputy to serve it on the perpetrator, who was about to get shipped off 2 Counties away--it was a matter of minutes before I missed my chance.
IF I had missed that chance, it would have taken WEEKS before he got served that document, and it got filed in just our home town system---it would take weeks for each surrounding town to get theirs, too--all the while, putting us at risk, not knowing when he'd get released from where.

When the desk person 1st refused to take it to the person in jail or get a deputy to do it before the person got moved 2 counties away, I had to raise my voice and let the entire waiting room know that:
"...a whole family is being threatened by this person, did she really wish to put a whole family at risk, to save the system a tiny bit of time?
OR, did she want to be responsible for costing the System a great deal more money for this matter to get processed through legal channels?"

AND, we were instructed to make sure to serve an official copy to EVERY police jurisdiction where our daughter or us might be traveling in--so that meant ALL the surrounding "Burb towns" in our county, and neighboring counties.

This took place in the Bay Area in CA, in the 1990's.
Where we live now, I write up the PD report for a local paper.
It is amazing how often street names get confused, or entered into files incorrectly, or the fuddled accounting of the event makes understanding the scenario almost impossible.

It is up to each of us to proactively take realistic, responsible steps to make sure our bases are covered, duck in a row, to get the help we need, and to get our family members the help they need.

We are our own best advocates,
as long as we are well enough to do so,
....but what happens when we no longer are well enough to do that for ourselves?
WHO do we get , who might be fair, honest, determined advocates for us, when the time comes we need one?
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Ok girls, let's come back to reality. Their going to put a 78 year old woman in jail? For what? Being a pain in the ass? Plain mean and verbally abusive to the daughter she's despised since birth? Maybe I'm just in a mood? But it's just plain ridiculous. Ok, I'm leaving for a while because I have never mastered the art of diplomacy. I do try, but sometimes there's no stopping it. So I'm gonna start dinner and I'll talk to my dear dear friends in a while. (dam, diplomacy sucks!)
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I agree, Lisa - believe me I have thought it through with mother, and the world just hasn't provided for some people. Really our mothers need medical/psychiatric intervention, but without a will or desire to change, interventions may not help. I am sure with my mother any intervention would only upset her, and not bring about any change. She is entrenched in her position that it is everyone else's fault, and I don't see anything changing that. The DQ is a addict, and narcissistic, and has all the dysfunctional, and devious ways of coping used by people with those conditions, There is no rule that all people with those conditions can, or will be successfully treated, nor that we can get them out of our lives completely. In my view. at the best we protect ourselves from them, and that may not mean bringing in the law, but simply avoiding contact as much as possible. Lisa, my hat is off to you for still caring enough to work with ss, and the co to try to get help, and possibly another, and a more suitable placement for your mum. You have put a great deal of distance between you and the DQ, and that is a good thing. I am sure you will maintain it. I am thankful every day that I do not have the condition that my mum has, or the addiction that my father had. Compassion with detachment does more for everyone than punishment, or revenge (not pointing a finger at anyone here - just my philosophy/belief). Having said that I am likely to be tested on those points before tomorrow LOL.
Lisa, you have a wonderful sense of humor and a great ability to respond with a good "comeback":, I still chuckle about "Don't feel sorry for me, she's that one that can't shit." The way you are is just fine - diplomacy or not. Those kids in the bus have the right person, for sure, and so does your mum have the right daughter. She is so fortunate. I pray that she realise it one day.

For a bit of a laugh, there was a tall, grey haired, Scottish lady called Jane, with a lovely scottish accent who ran the cash register at the college cafeteria, She had great comebacks too. My favourite was when high school student mooned her one day. The next day the student returned, and apologised. Jane's instant retort was, "I'd apologize too, if I had a butt like yours."

chimonger, i realise there are situations, like yours, where the law must be involved. I am glad you were successful.

I think I have a parable . I chased flies in the house this afternoon, and caught all of them, I thought, Then 4 more appeared, and not long after that I saw that the back door was not shut tight. We need to be sure our boundaries are tight, so the "flies' don't get to us.

Another insect problem - ants, having been attracted to the sap oozing from the damaged roots of Gordie's tree are rapidly invading the area, and building a nest under it. I have resorted to chemicals to kill them. Apologies, to the environmentalists among you, but I fear for the tree. I believe coffee grounds will help too, and boiling water and I will use those too.

Over and out!
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I have to agree with you, Lisa and Emjo... I think DQ in jail would be a bit on the ridiculous side. Jail is extreme, and you're right, Lisa, on what grounds? For being a pain in the ass meany? (I know its more complicated and serious than that, but you get my point - I'm in no way trying to minimize the hell). The fraud stuff...eh...it'll catch up to her... or it won't. Life isn't fair. Its one thing to live and let live, which is what I think would be a nice situation - she lives without tormenting the crap out of you, you live happily untormented. And its quite another to envision her in an orange jumpsuit. Peace would be nice. Just life without upheaval. xxo, J.
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Lisa~you are a wise woman!! As much as our mother's with personality disorders cause so much destruction in our lives, we do not want to act out toward them in a vindictive way. It only puts us in the same boat they are in. I have been reading about personality disorders and the most common question is "Do they know what they are doing to others?" The answers seems to be YES they do know. However, they are so steeped in denial about their own actions that they don't make the connection between their own behavior toward others (especially loved ones) and another person with a PD. If you asked your mother if is ok to treat someone or do the very things that she does to another person, chances are she will say it is wrong. I know it is funny to think of your mother in jail...the uniform...having to follow rules...but we are dealing with a mental illness and such a move would cause more trauma to her and you/family. I mean no disrespect to those who are finding the humor in the situation (humor is a good thing) but you must go with your good judgement here regarding the reality of the situation.

In regards to the ants being attracted to the sweet sap...next come the white flies that milk the ants for the nectar they excrete and on and on it goes.
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So sorry I messed up!!! It's ants that milk aphids...Lol. I tried...
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