Today I had my first appointment with an actual therapist (not a counselor).
Even though one hour wasn't long enough to spew out everything I need to talk about, this woman completely picked up on 2 truly major points.
1) Even ONE of the stressors I have been dealing with over the last year is more than enough to warrant therapy!
2) I have been the "caregiver " for everyone in my family since I was 12 years old!
She asked me what I do for myself?
I had absolutely no answer!!
Hence therapy!! Lol
Caring for a narcissistic LO is a labor of love!
Not because they will love us back, but because we need to love ourselves!!
How do you keep caring selflessly for your selfish LO?
What do you do for yourself?
(((Hugs)))
Be careful of being overly positive!
If your Mom is like mine, it will only piss her off!
Lealonnies post was so timely!
I just had the conversation today with my therapist about "mirroring ".
When NM says "I hate the food here." We say, "That must be so frustrating for you." Etc...
Don't give her any personal information, unless she asks. And even then, make it as brief as possible. When we tell our NM how we are feeling, they somehow turn it around to be about them. That only causes us more frustration!
Let us know how it goes!!
(((Hugs)))
Lea,
My therapist actually told me today that she's seeing a positive change in me already!!
It was a great decision to get a little extra help via meds.
Thanks for your support!!😘
It's called 'mirroring' to give them non committal responses to their endless complaining, huh? I never knew that. I do know it's very hard for them to have a snide comeback to a comment like Gee That's Unfortunate! LOL
So glad your therapist is seeing a positive change in you already!!!
Your Mom sounds just like mine!!
When I go "Grey Rock " it only pisses her off!
Nothing makes her happy! So when I "Mirror " her she may continue her rant, but at least it's not pointed at me!
My tongue is raw from biting it, however, she can't argue with me when I am basically agreeing with her. Lol
Tonight she called to tell me she spent the whole entire day on Saturday in BED at the Memory Care. This is a bald faced LIE b/c I have had this discussion with the staff in the past. ALL the residents MUST be up and dressed & ready to go into the activity room BY 10 am at the absolute LATEST, o/w, it throws the staff's schedules off big time. Plus they wouldn't get to eat bkfst, etc. The only exception is for those who are on hospice. Plus, had she been in 'bed all day' she would NOT have eaten b/c they are NOT allowed to eat in their rooms, again, unless they are on hospice. There is NO WAY my mother would EVER not eat for a whole day. Esp now that they have her rationed to ONE snack bag per day which she's furious about! She's also stopped 'throwing up and throwing up and throwing up' ever since I spoke w her doc about rationing snacks!!! Anyway, I just let it go about her being 'in bed all day on Sat' b/c what's the point in telling her I know the truth? Besides, I SPOKE to her on Sat and she was fine!
Sometimes it seemed like she would be plotting a revenge tactic when she was faced with gray rock treatment.
It’s a tricky balance how to handle situations.
I felt like a ‘mad scientist’ trying out an experiment! LOL
A few months back when my mom was giving me the silent treatment and telling anyone who would listen how awful I was and how much she hated it here, it was 100% rooted in the fact that I would not agree that she was safe to drive. Nevermind that she was also on a DUI suspension-- oh I won't even get into that nightmare, but safe to say no way should she be driving. I did not even argue with her about it. I just would not agree with her that she was "fine to drive". Rage!!
Yesterday my DH told me he thought I was getting better at dealing with her. I said - Not really, it continues to take a huge toll on me, I'm just getting more numb to how she acts which makes it easier to enforce boundaries.
I didn't see her yesterday, because DH and I had our anniversary, and I thought NO, I'm not including her in this day. So the day before I prepared her by reminding her it was our anniversary and we'd be busy celebrating in our own way. I know she heard me, and halfway acknowledged it. But damn if she didn't try to horn her way in! She called me and invited us over for "anniversary drinks", so she did remember. I felt so pi$$ed but my approach was I laughed and said "Mother, this is a COUPLES day, not one people spend with their mother!" while still kind of laughing. So then she semi-laughed too, and said okay through what I know were gritted teeth.
So she roped us into today, by saying- Okay come over for dinner Tuesday. I'm making stew. (aka I bought stuff for you to make here)
Not- Do you want to come over? Just- Come over. I know it would seem petty to a normal person, but with these types, it just irritates me. I said yes, because as much as I'm dreading it I feel like I need to check on this opiate situation.
Lea I'm not buying her version of events one bit. I am feeling anxious/concerned about where this is going to lead. Like when the taper is over. No way she suddenly decided she didn't want these pills.
I don't know if the medical marijuana will happen or not. When she tried this a few years ago it was very low dose THC, and mainly CBD. She claimed it didn't do anything for her and she didn't like it. The prescribing doctor didn't give her anything strong. Here's the kicker- she will need that neurologist to approve it again, which will likely require her going back to that doctor who she claimed to "hate".
Like everything else with her, I just have to wait and see what she does and hope it's not a disaster.
As far as you 'getting better' at dealing with her BS, I feel that way myself sometimes. I'll go along for a few days feeling like "You've got this" and by the 4th day, BAM, she's got me back to ranting & raving once again, IYKWIM. We do the best we can, right? I give you a lot of credit for all you do; I could NEVER do it! I hope you can figure out how to get her moved off of your property SOON!
Happy Anniversary too!!
Chris, great news!! I think my mother is scheduled for The Jab on 1/22, if I understand things correctly. Hopefully the MC has a timely schedule set up for the SECOND jab too, so the whole mess can be properly accomplished.
In short, it says once you finally realize that you have power over your own life, the real healing begins!
Seems like a simple concept, yet so difficult to put into practice!
So I ask myself, what is the worst thing that Mom can do to me? Make me feel guilty? Well she already does that.
So what do we all have to lose by setting healthy boundaries?
What do we all have to gain by setting healthy boundaries?
Food for thought!!
Could you be a psychiatrist? I know that I couldn’t!
One day, a good friend told me that I should have been a psychiatrist because she was going through a rough patch after her divorce and I listened to her vent.
I laughed and told her that while I admire and appreciate their services, I could never do it myself.
I would be depressed if I had to listen to problems all day, five days a week!
I guess they learn to detach like medical doctors do. I definitely couldn’t be in any medical field!
I used to volunteer at Children’s Hospital here in New Orleans when I was a teenager but it was fun stuff!
At first it was sad seeing some of those kids who had serious medical issues but when they smiled because they beat me at shooting hoops, it was fantastic.
They were excellent athletes! They were fast in their wheelchairs! I was a competitive kid but couldn’t beat them! They spent all of their free time in the gym shooting hoops.
Sometimes my friends and I made cupcakes to bring for them to snack on.
The nurses were fantastic and loved when a group of my friends and I would visit.
Some of those kids had no one else to care about them.
That shocked me, so I asked a nurse why didn’t we ever see their parents visiting.
She said, “Some parents can’t deal with it emotionally or they have several other children that they care for and they have to work long hours.
You know, thinking of it now sort of reminds me now of adult children struggle to see their elderly parents in facilities.
It's a sad truth, but our NMs are never going to change! I think I finally realized that!
It's still hard to mourn the "Mother/Daughter " relationship we've never had, but it doesn't have to define our future !(((hugs)))
NHWM,
If I was a psychiatrist, I probably wouldn't need therapy! Lol
I used to work with downs syndrome kids. Some of the most rewarding times of my life!
Ironically, a lot of people that go into the mental health field, have issues themselves.
Maybe I should have gone into mental health after all! Lol
I hear you. It takes all kinds to make the world go round!
Some therapist are whacko and others are great!
I don’t know how old you are but I remember being freaked out by ‘One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest’ movie.
Nicholson was fantastic in it! Imagine working in psychiatry back then in mental hospitals! Geeeeeez!
My hubby and I watched it not too long ago! We had binge watched the series "Ratched" on Netflix, so we decided we needed to watch the movie.
You're right!! It's totally creepy!!
So yesterday my DH's favorite team were playing in the NFL playoffs. He's a huge football fan and was so excited for the game. I planned for food and drinks and basically we were planning to have some fun (rare event given our current life situation!). Of course my mom had to join in. God forbid we have any kind of fun by ourselves while poor mom is all alone next door so bored and nothing to do. So I agree when she invites herself over. I'm thinking we'll be focused on the game anyway.
We sat in our living room, all on three separate couches, nice spacing apart. Normally she likes to sit at our kitchen bar where the seats are close and she is right on top of me where she commands my full attention.
So the game starts, we're watching. DH and I are both excited. You guys, my NARC mother tried at least SIX different times to turn the conversation ON HER. Stupid complaints, huffs, sighs, "oh my back is KILLING ME, I hate this pillow", "I need you to check on my dentist appointment"- I look over- it's Tuesday, then I immediately go back to the game. I hear a huge SIGH. Then she starts in on something my golden child brother is doing. I DON'T CARE. I start ignoring these constant interruptions and cheer on the team with DH. Meanwhile she has a scowl on her face. Then she starts complaining she is hungry. Thankfully it is just about half-time (the time I told her we would be eating) so I get the food served. She ate and then when I went back to watching the game she announced she was leaving. Whew- GOOD!
15 minutes later she texts DH, "when is my dentist appointment again?" He tells her, then she started asking about "when is my next nail appointment" UUUGH! He just stopped texting. No, I do not think this was a memory loss issue. I think she actually fakes it sometimes for attention, and that is what she was doing texting HIM knowing full well he was watching that game.
So tired of dealing with her. For ONCE I wish she could just be even semi-pleasant to be around. But NO, she never is, never was. If she is not the center of attention, she gets mad. Actually MAD. And I mean the complete center.
I wish she would have called me after she left with her questions, because I would have told her in so many words to BUZZ OFF we are watching the game! In the past I would not have been able to do that, but these days I can.
NOT calling her today. Who knows what I will be in for Tuesday when I take her to the dentist. I hate her how narc antics from yesterday are still bugging me today. I didn't like the mood I woke up in this morning and every thought was about her. Ugh. Thanks for letting me get this out of my system.
Vent over.
How was everyone else's weekend? Anyone need to vent? Or better yet, did anyone have a good weekend they want to share?
i read your vent. i totally empathize. big hug!!
these narcs make things impossible. and i agree, then they’re in our heads, and it takes time to heal/get them out of our heads. hug!!
i’ll vent too, unfortunately.
narcs want to create trouble between people too. they not only want to destroy you, they want to create problems between you and others.
today, the person screamed every 5 minutes at whatever nice, kind act i was doing; the person had asked me to do. i’m trying to get rid of more problems for the person. then i’ll back off, take a step back, focus on me.
unfortunately today another person also kind of took part. so there were 2 people saying unjustified comments.
dear exhausted,
as many have warned, there is, i believe only low/or no contact. they won’t stop.
it’s evil.
someone else wrote: narcs want to destroy their own children.
we must look at ourselves:
-how are we doing?
-are we in the best shape of our lives?
-is the narc trying to destroy our body, mind, spirit...
today i’m upset with 2 people.
dear exhausted,
we must turn this around.
we must succeed.
there must be something positive out of all this narc abuse. on second thought, there’s nothing positive about abuse.
let’s come out of this, with a fantastic life. show the narcs, they didn’t destroy us.
i wouldn’t be surprised at all, if they get really happy, every time they see our faces get sad/mad, etc.
it’s like a little victory for them.
so long as there’s contact, the abuse will continue.
how can one ever be fully happy like that?
we must find a way to succeed in our lives! hug!!
I'd love to go no-contact or low, but I can't since my mom has dementia. My only resolve is that when I get the legal green light from a doctor that my mom can no longer live alone I will be placing her in a facility at lightening speed and ZERO guilt.
That being said, I think you have a good attitude, one of overcoming and succeeding despite the abuse. I hope to be there one day.
Hugs to you.
nice to hear you :).
i almost didn’t see your message. sometimes it’s hard to see if someone replied.
thanks for your empathy!!
yes exactly, from 2 sides.
removing myself?
from tomorrow i start a new chapter. i focus on me. i organized everything for the person to be ok (they made fantastic physical progress), and for me to step back (i don’t mean no contact at all).
ah i see! you would like no/low contact. hug! i see, you have a plan for when she can’t live alone anymore.
thanks for the attitude comment. hug!! let’s go for it!! c’mon :).
let’s show narcs what we’re made of. happy, and succeeding even more, when they treat us terribly.
bundleofjoy
Don’t wait for a crisis situation before you bring up the subject of AL. I could see my mother was starting to show early signs of needing more help, so I addressed this early on. It was still a stressful situation, met with much early resistance, and we went through a period of really intense stress whilst this resistance panned out in daily outbursts, but it was still better than doing this with the backdrop of a medical emergency.
Recognise that the elderly person may never bring this subject up, however desperate their situation becomes, and that you may need to do this for them. Accept that they might not thank you for this!
Do consider your own needs and the effect that caregiving is having on your ability to take care of yourself. With a fibromyalgia diagnosis for me, this was the tipping point and the realisation that further caregiving in our home would be very bad for my own health. Already I am feeling mentally stronger and this in turn will help me to be physically stronger too. My mother is safe and has the care she needs (meals and social interaction), so the needs of both of us are now being met.
Think about the single most important goal you wish to achieve, and stay firm about this, despite any resistance or other obstacles thrown in your way. My goal was to move mum out of our house whilst still ensuring her care needs were being met. Once she could see I was firm about this, the outbursts declined and then stopped, and she began to take some interest in the new living arrangements.
Finally, ensure that the new care arrangements don’t suck you into again being overwhelmed with caregiving, but just in a different scenario. It’s early days on this one for me, but I’m clearer about how much of my time I will give, to achieve a healthy balance between living my life and helping in someone else’s.
I am still dealing with the huge adrenalin crash (exhaustion, needing to sleep more) that being relieved of so much caregiving and being the target of narcissism has caused, having lived on “high alert” for so long. But there is no doubt that putting some distance between mum and I is already having a positive impact for me. I feel I will be stronger and better able to deal with any future outbursts, which I am sure will happen from time to time.
Good luck to all in a similar situation.
I think your advice is good too. We live and learn don't we? My goal too is to move my mom into care, and I know I will have to be the one to bring it up and make it happen, but that time is not yet. I can't predict when that will be as her dementia is unpredictable. I have a few "lines in the sand" like- I will NOT do personal hygiene or bathroom duties, and I will not in any way move in with her or allow her to start living here- when she can't live alone- that is a line in the sand for me too. So I'm still in the "draw your boundaries" phase.
Back to your mom - I wish more elders would see the NEED for socialization with their PEERS. It would do them the world of good as you are seeing with your mom. My mom is extra needy because she is alone. It's bad for us both. I'm glad your mom is socializing and I imagine that takes a lot of pressure off of you.
Keep resting and healing. Just think when your son comes home to visit how refreshed you will be, and DH too. I'm happy for you both.
E.P. there is never a good time to make the move, but there IS a bad time, when you're under the gun after a fall or an emergency. I know....thats what happened to me when dad fell and broke his hip and rehab wouldn't release him back to IL. I had no idea of their finances at that time either because it was all kept a big secret. What a sh*it show THAT turned into for me, let me tell you.
My mom is well aware of what we did for her, and when she later had meltdowns and "HATED" it here and was threatening to move she told me she was only going to take her furniture. Of course that was all a bunch of BS hot air because there is no other place she can move mostly due to lack of a support system. Believe me, if there was I would be FINE with her moving, and told her that straight up. She knows I regret what we did, because I told her. But here we are, and what is done is done, unfortunately.
What this financial entanglement is going to mean down the road I don't know. That's on the list to discuss with an elder attorney later this year. I have all the records and receipts to show exactly what DH and I spent, from our own accounts, but IDK how it will ultimately play out. My mom still has plenty of her own money for care, so going into care is not dependent on selling the condo. It's dependent on her ability to live alone.
I expect that her opinion on being able to live alone will stray further from reality as time goes on, and it's going to be a battle. Nothing with her is ever easy. But I am determined that I will not do more than I am doing right now. No 24/7 care, not even close. Unfortunately I also expect that it will take some kind of crisis for her to be declared incompetent by her doctor, and then I will force the care issue as DPoA.
i hope everyone on this forum is doing ok!! :) courage :).
regarding narcs, i find this video useful.
saying no to narcs, and yes to yourself. :)
you asked: what do you do for yourself?
-i’ll say more “yes” to myself.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Dov8JjH_Mk4
https://www.recoveryranch.com/addiction-blog/brain-abnormalities-found-in-narcissists/
I told her that she needed to find away to be happy in her new place!
As I predicted, she hates it and has concocted a scheme using a property management company to find her an apartment that will meet her needs. First floor, walk in shower, basically wheel chair accessible.
She's not thinking about the fact that her mobility issues are so bad now that in just a couple years she's going to need more help. She's not thinking about the fact that she will be completely dependent on me for her shopping and rides to her Doctor appointments. She's not thinking about the fact that I'm not out of the woods yet with my cancer diagnosis! She's not thinking about the fact that she is a fall risk and will need to wear an alert system.
Again, we live in a small town!
I spoke with my younger brothers to express my concerns. My youngest brother absolutely gets it, but my other brother has proven himself to be a "flying monkey ".
"She has sacrifices so much for us as a single Mom "
OMG!!! I was a single Mom for 13 years and my children never went without hot water or heat in the house! My children never had to try to sleep with mice crawling on their heads! I worked two jobs to make sure that NEVER happened!!
My children never watched me start drinking at 9am on a saturday morning and passed out by noon!
And yet I am the one not being understand and selfish?
I am so completely frustrated and mad as Hell!!
Hmm. Not thinking or planning? Or not thinking & not caring? IE no empathy for you & your issues. Entitled attitude that others will provide what she wants.
Whatever the reason, I suppose you can applaud her drive for independance. Warn her of the pitfalls then let her decide. "OK you go for it! But the consequences will be all yours. This is YOUR decision & your outcome".
Reap what you sow approach.
But I SO get the pressure!
I'm off to read the rest to find what Mom's health situation is.
Well, no it has been anything but fine! She has no life, no friends, can't drive, is miserable and the dependence on me has greatly affected my life in a very negative way. So I understand. And like you one of the most frustrating things is her inability or refusal to even think of future needs, or even current needs.
With your mom, is she trying to move closer to you or further away? Also is there any way you can talk to the property management company and explain the situation and request they steer her towards something more like assisted living? If the place they manage doesn't have any assisted living, I wonder if you could get an assisted living manager from a different place to help your mom decide similar to what the property management is doing with her now?
You are right, if what she really needs is an ALF then she is just setting herself up for another move. Maybe if you call an ALF they could have someone call her, not mention you, just mention that they have lovely apartments and would love to give her a tour, like it's a cold call. Would something like that work?
Thank you!!
EP,
I forgot to mention that Mom is currently in ALF. She still has her mind, but her body is shot!!
As for friends, she hasn't had any friends for as long as I can remember!! She calls me her BFF.
She hasn't formed any friendships at the AFL.
I know full well that she is gonna park her butt in her recliner all day and complain to my brother's(both out of state) that I don't visit enough.
She lives 30 minutes away from me now, but has the property management company looking for a place in the closest town to my home. Ugh!!