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I am beyond exhausted! For two days all I have heard from my NM is that "she hopes she doesn't have an accident and I don't get blamed! How she could ACCIDENTALLY fall down the stairs and I COULD be blamed! Oh how horrible it would be if THEY blamed me for her getting hurt!" Really!! I feel like she wants to hurt herself and I get blamed! She is threatening to ruin my life. I'm starting to think Satan took up residency in my NM! I told her do whatever your going to do & stop threatening me and of course she played like she didn't know what I was talking about!!! This woman in truly insane!!!


Xray,
I don't think your NM is thinking! It makes no sense for her to move out of a AL to an apartment! That in itself is insane! But if your NM is anything like mine you can't change their minds no matter what you say and do! They refuse to listen to anyone and ALWAYS pay the price for their mistakes and WE get the great job of cleaning up the aftermath! Ugh!!

It is hard for us to be hard a$$ to our mothers because we were conditioned to take care of them...to want/need their love...to protect them...to put their needs before our own...so we do whatever we have to to save them...we were groomed for them. And it sucks!!

All you can do is sit back and wait...wait for her to fall...she'll need help with something & want you to come to her rescue!

My NM is know different and all I ever can do is wait for whatever she does to blow up in her face...it always does!!! They NEVER learn from their mistakes!
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Shell, such a ludicrous thing for your NM to say! You have NO history of violence with her, why would ANYONE think you had anything to do with an accident she may have? Ridiculous. Out of the mouth of the demented, for sure.

Leelady, welcome to the group! I sure hope you can find a way OUT of the house you're living in SOON and into a new place of your own. You deserve that; you've done way way WAY more than enough for your mother already; I hope you can wrap your mind around that truth.

Jodi........I seriously think you have to decide how much you are going to do or not do for your NM once she moves into this 'apartment' which is such a ridiculous idea. You know she expects you to do it ALL for her, right? Make a plan, or the plan will be that your entire LIFE is devoted to HER. If it were me, I'd let her know right off the bat that I'm available for 2 hours a WEEK, max. No joke. She'd better get a caregiver on board IMMEDIATELY or you're IT g/f. Don't let her see a crack in your solid plan either, or you'll be sunk. She has NO business moving out of her ALF and she has to be told that you DO NOT condone it and have NO time for her, sorry/not sorry mom. Don't tell yourself how 'hard' it is to deal with being firm..............tell yourself how EASY it is to be firm since she's SO OUT OF LINE making a RIDICULOUS decision like this! She is counting on YOU to take care of her, and that's NOT okay. Period.
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Shell,

You're so right!!

They expect us to clean up the mess they've made for themselves!!

Lea,

I truly believe that her actions are a direct (narcissistic) response to how much time I spend on dealing with my Aunt! It's been almost a full time job!

I need to find away, if only for my own sanity, to tell her exactly why this is a huge mistake. But as I'm sure you know, it's not an easy task!!😘
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Lea,
Your right it is ludicrous thing to say! In my mind, she falls down the stairs and tells the EMTs that I pushed her or something and you know how people believe these women?! They act so sweet like butter wouldn't melt in their mouths!

My mother said about six months ago that she wouldn't be worried if I moved out because she knows I would be over everyday to cook, clean, yard work, maintenance and etc...I couldn't stop laughing, which made her upset...the h3ll I will...I'll go and get a part-time job! Wink Wink!


Xray,
Lea is right! Your NM is thinking you will take care of her and do all the heavy lifting! If I was you I would tell her "mom if you move into that apartment you know I won't be able to help you. You'll have to hire someone to care for you." Of course, she'll come back with I'll be find or I have you! You should really think on how you are going to handle this.



I have to say, that I am amazed how these women make decisions and have no thought in what effects it has on the people around them!!!🥺
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Jodi.....your NM is JEALOUS that you've devoted your time and attention to your aunt so here's the payback. If it wasn't for jealous bones, these women would be Gumby's.
While it's not easy to set boundaries with your NM, what's even harder is having TWO full time jobs on your hands now. One with your aunt and one with your mother! You'll have to pack up and move away to escape.....leaving no forwarding address 🤐
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Lea,

I moved from California to Colorado, she followed. I moved from Colorado to Montana, she followed!

My hubby and I have found our perfect place!! We bought the perfect lot and built our perfect home! I refuse to let her chase me off !!

I suspect that my only option is to find a way to tell her exactly how I feel. I also suspect that it's not going to go well.

I think I spoke about it on another post, but I think writing her a letter may be eye opening for her.

I know that I can't talk to her about my feelings on the phone, because she will flat out shut me down!

It's a harsh realization that my 84 year old mother is tougher than I am!! Lol

I know you totally get it!😘
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To the recent posters here: all I can say is quit thinking/looking for your NM (narcissistic mother) to change, act normal, love you, whatever...she won't. Just try to accept (as I did 40 years ago), that you were a motherless child then, now, and always will be. It is so very devastating to bring your mind and emotions to that, but it is reality. After getting over the absolute trauma of realizing there is no "Mother" ever for you, try to get on with being that awesome motherless child you can be. You can choose to be broken by the realization, or accept it, and drive on without looking for something that will never be there. In some ways, it can be very freeing. You can quit looking for 'mother's' approval, quit accepting that person's (mother's) criticism, set your own goals b/c, after all, there is no mother dictating what you are or aren't, be the person you know you really are (not the scripted one mother wants you to assume). Think of it a different way: if your mother was just some neighbor's or co-worker's mother, would you let that person dictate who you are and what you do? Would you give up your precious life to cater to their selfish interests? Probably not. The best thing I ever did for myself is just accept I am a "motherless child" and that will never change. Yes, I cried. Desperately and inconsolably. And I got angry, and then focused. And now I am my own person (not what was scripted by someone else's mental illness), and have forged a respectable way in life. But beware, the NM's of the world will always try to sabotage your self awareness, drag you back into their messes and drama, and use you up to meet their ends, with absolutely no remorse. I choose being a 'motherless child'. I can live with that. Just a thought (and caring) for you here.
'
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Jodi....my mother also followed me ALL OVER THE COUNTRY until my ex took a job in Manhattan. The cost of living was just too high back east, so they moved to Florida where I FINALLY had a blessed break. The running joke with my relatives was.....where will Lea move next, Sweden? 🤣 I'd considered it. After the break, I had to move them here to Colo (where I wound up) after dad had to stop driving in 2011. He passed in 2015 and here I am, still dealing with mom, at 94, 10 years later, but she's in Memory Care at least.

I hope you get your message across in the letter and that you can stick to your plan. You deserve a life too.

Stilldealing, you are very right. Acceptance of what is is what's best for us. Wishing for something different isn't gonna make it happen. You're really describing the stages of grief a daughter goes thru on her way to accepting the fact she doesn't have a real mother, or has lost her to mental illness
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I don't know how I'll survive if my mother lives another 15 years (she's 82.) Xray, we're in the same boat - my mom is also planning a move closer to me so "I can take care of her" (not that she asked ME about this plan of course.) Luckily my immediate neighborhood is too expensive for Mom so she'll probably wind up a few miles away. She also followed me across the country when I moved to get away from her so I pretty much need to accept that I'm not going to be free of the situation til Mom is in her grave.

I definitely hope you have some sibs because I can 100% guarantee that your mom, like mine, plans for you to do all her hands on care. I'd really prefer my own mom to stay in the area she's in now where at least she has some friends who can help take care of her, but there's no way she'll listen of course.
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Is this a common thing, I wonder? My mum has been telling us each time we see her that she sent my brother (the golden child of the two of us) a large cheque for his recent birthday, because he needs a new laptop. We, the ones who drive her everywhere, order her medication and do most of her errands, just get the normal amount she gives to all family members. Why does she keep telling us this?

We just had to get a new battery for our ageing car and I joked cynically to my brother that we ought to send Mum the bill - we would buy a newer, smaller car if we didn't have to accommodate her walking aids and wheelchair. He agreed, but when we told her the car was having problems she switched to selective deafness.
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Hi all, catching up on the thread here and seeing all the NMs are still making people's lives miserable. No shock there. Stilldealing, when I was long distance from my mom, which was most of my adult life, I had therapy and I thought I had dealt with my past and put it behind me. I truly did. I was tolerating my bi-yearly visits with her better and believed that I had forgiven her for past abuse. I was actually proud of myself for taking what I felt was the high road.

In a way I wish I hadn't "healed" and put it behind me. Because when it came time to put the big hooks in me for her elder care, I did not have my defenses up. That in part allowed her to manipulate me into this situation. Several months in and I'm seeing dementia, abusive narc behavior, I'm getting triggers left and right, and I'm back in a psychiatrists office. I'll just say this, as much as I liked my old therapist from back in the day, I was never told or warned about CPTSD. It is REAL and it is brutal. The worse part is it is subconscious. It's the reason anxiety goes through the roof and my stomach is in knots when I have to deal with her. My mother a frail 77 year old with dementia- and me a capable 58 year old, and this lady has me reacting like a scared child. THAT is CPTSD.

LeeLady, welcome to the club. You are not alone in your depression. It can feel crippling at times. Please vent her often, it helps and this is a safe space. Others here really get it. As you figure out a way to get out of that house keep coming here for support. I think you already know the first thing you need to do is get out of there.

Shell, your mom and that comment... I just can't. You should have laughed at her. But the idea that she "warned" you is so sickening. Again, why would a mother want to elicit that kind of unfounded irrational fear in her child? It's so abnormal.

Hellbore- these plans your mom has to move close to you made alarm bells go off in my head! Tell her to move to assisted living!! Moving close makes it much easier for them to invade your life and there will be an ever increasing dependence on you- trust me I KNOW! Hellbore I'm not joking.

So today is my mom's 77th birthday. Please send good vibes that I get through birthday girl's big day with half a smile. I got her flowers, and shrimp at the fish market yesterday to make a fried shrimp dinner which is one of her favorites. I got her scheduled for her covid vaccine yesterday so she is happy about that, so hopefully will be in a good mood today.
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Helen, if you are using your vehicle to cart your mom all over the place then YES, you should ask her to pitch in for car maintenance.
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EP: Hard to imagine your NM is only 77 years old. And also hard to imagine wondering if she'll be in a 'good mood' after going to all the trouble of buying and prepping her favorite fried shrimp b'day dinner. You must have a narcissistic mother............as ALL of us wonder the same thing each time we have to deal with them: will they be in a good mood THIS time? Good luck & Godspeed, my friend.
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Thanks piper, I wish I *could* move Mom to assisted living. But she saved 0 money for retirement and I'm not going to spend down spouse's/my savings for her care - we don't have kids and nobody will be around to help *us* when the time comes. Her house is worth a little bit but my understanding is AL can run up to 10K a month so it wouldn't last long.

When Mom can no longer drive and needs hands on care we'll sell whatever house or condo she lives in and do it at that point, or if she's burned through it we'll look into Medicaid. No way she moves in with me now or ever. I know from experience she'll just follow me even if I move away and there's no way I can stop her, that I know of, from moving wherever she likes unfortunately.

So sorry about your CPTSD. I have that to some extent around my only sibling, my half brother from Mom's first marriage. She let him do whatever he wanted to me, pretty much, when we were kids - mostly psychological torture luckily - and I haven't talked to him in 18 years but I'm not sure what I'd do if I ever had to.

Just another vote for asking your mom to pitch in for the car repair Helen!! That really hurts when one child is the "golden," I know - I see that with my husband's family. He's the invisible child, sadly.
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Piper-I fully understand what you mean about letting the guard down. I never let my guard down. However, I was never lucky enough to just deal with NM twice a year, due to desiring to maintain relationship with (now deceased) father and siblings (whom I very much like). The few times I have let guard slip even a little bit, NM tries to swoop in like a vulture thinking that HER version of status quo is back on the table. (What is it about these narcissist parents where if they think they are getting an inch, they try to bully a mile out of you?) I then have to retreat even further [am doing that now]. As for forgiveness, I will never forgive NM. Even after she is dead. Such people don't deserve forgiveness. I will just endeavor to forget her. Interestingly enough, when I don't see/talk to NM for awhile, I really do forget her. I think it goes back to that old 'motherless child' thing. I really don't view this person as being 'my mother'. She never was, I just feel like this person is just an unpleasant person that I have to deal with for the time being (kind of like a bad neighbor, rotten boss), who when she passes out of my life, will pass out of my mind. (I can hope anyway!) Thanks all, for the support you give others here. So very much appreciated.
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What is CPTSD? I never heard of it before.
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Elaine: CPTSD is Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. I looked it up myself a couple of weeks ago and the net says:

CPTSD is a serious mental health condition that can take some time to treat, and for many people, it's a lifelong condition. However, a combination of therapy and medication can help you manage your symptoms and significantly improve your quality of life.

The difference between CPTSD and PTSD is that PTSD usually occurs after a single traumatic event, while CPTSD is associated with repeated trauma. Events that can lead to PTSD include a serious accident, a sexual assault, or a traumatic childbirth experience, such as losing a baby. Complex PTSD, however, is specific to severe, repetitive trauma that typically happens in childhood - most often abuse.

https://www.beautyafterbruises.org/what-is-cptsd
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Stilldealing,
Your words ring so true. In the last year, I thought what was wrong with me? Why am I so unlovable to this woman I called mom? Then I found this thread and all these wonderful & amazing women. Who's stories sound as if they were my own. In time, I have come to realize that it was never about me...it was about the story...the idea of what my mother thought in her dark twisted head about me. I also came to realize that when my dad passed in 2014 I became an orphan I just didn't know it at the time. I know I am a "Motherless" child and everyday I am reminded of that when I look into my NM eyes and see nothing but selfishness and I look past that and see emptiness. And you are right...no mother's script to live up to or live by! Thank you for reminding me there is freedom in being a "Motherless" child.


Piper,
Why elicit that kind of fear on her child? Because she wants to destroy my life...destroy who I am! I have done so much in my life...things that my NM couldn't nor wouldn't do. I have seen things that she has only read or watch on TV and she knows I am not done. To destroy all that is in me that she wanted to be but couldn't. I still have dreams and a big to do list. She loves to instill fear into me...but I do not live my life in fear and I am not about to start now. I have never and will never harm a hair on her head! She is all talk...I doubt very much if she would have the guts to hurt herself just to blame me. She is truly sick in the head!!
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I came to realize today that my NM pushed and pushed me into all the things she wanted for herself.

My weight, how I dressed, even down to what solos I sang in school. I wasn't permitted to be myself!

There were never any kudos!
No matter how hard I tried or how well I did, never a pat on the back!!
Her favorite saying is "I taught her everything she knows ".

After reading thru all of our posts, I have come to realize that her sad attempts to live vicariously through me have had the opposite effect on her!

Instead of feeling fulfilled, it has left her feeling empty and jealous. And yes, when I was 16, she actually told me that she was jealous of me!

We all have to work hard at not letting these broken people bring us down!!!

I understand how painful and incredibly difficult it is to put ourselves first and I'm so grateful for all of you and your thoughtful insight!!

You ALL Rock!!!😘
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Thank you for explaining CPTSD to me Lealonnie.
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Xray,
For me it is somewhat opposite. My NM never really bothered with me. She didn't teach me my ABC's or how to count...tie my shoes...how to zip up my coat...that was all my brother's doing...my NM never even read to me as a child. All the things child learn in those first 5 to 6 yrs my NM wasn't apart of it! I ask myself "How could I have forgotten?" "How did I not realize that my NM wasn't there to teach me these things?"

I did so much to get her attention...her love...but everything I accomplished just made her hate me more. My NM always claimed that she was proud of me and that other's were jealous of me, but I see now that was all a lie.

I really don't know what is worst! Having a 'mother' push what she wants onto you or having a 'mother' who ignored you most of your life, but tells you that she loves you...either way we both got the cheated when it came to mothers. I never got 'that a girl' from my NM!

It really is a strange thought...it is 5:38 am and I woke up to thinking "how strange it is to have a mother in your life who never really was a mother! How my friends thought I had the best mom...because she acted so caring to them, but couldn't be bothered by me. She was a stay at home mom, but she stayed in her bedroom most of the time...most nights she never even made us kids dinner. Thank God my dad taught us kids to cook at a young age.

Xray, you are a wonderful person & you deserve all the love, peace, and joy that your heart can hold. You turned out to be a loving and a great human being dispite what your NM did! Be proud of yourself!💜


We all deserve so much more than what our NM thinks! Here is to us 👏!
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Jodi & Shell: seems like there are 2 types of narcissistic mothers:

If you have a mother or father that is a covert narcissist, you may have felt as if you weren’t protected when you were growing up, or you may have felt that you were on your own and needed to take care of yourself.

Or sometimes it can go the other way, especially with moms who are so overly involved in your life and overly protective of you, that you get the message that this world isn’t safe, and the only person you can trust is your mom. You’re never gonna make it out there on your own. It’s a very disempowering relationship.

I have NM #2: one that was SO extremely over protective & over involved in my life that I didn't have 3 minutes of peace or privacy in my entire childhood!

Interesting, huh?
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Lea,
I knew at 3 yrs old I was on my own! Something horrible happened to me and my NM knew about it and did nothing about it! No one did! (Dad probably didn't know) I have always felt that I can't trust anybody even my own family! I hate to say this but it is true...I keep everybody except my SO at arms length. It took my SO 5 to 6 yrs for me to trust him...not because of him, but because of me and always feeling that all I ever have is myself! I have always had to take care of myself. My NM never bothered with me which just kept reinforcing that belief and I still feel this way!

Yes, it is interesting in a very sad way!
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Lealonnie, I also had NM #2. Always hovering over me all my life. Even when I was very little she would hover and do everything for me because god forbid I made a mistake or accidentally spilled my milk.

She even said she fed me in the high chair as a baby and toddler because god forbid I get food all over my face. The list goes on and on.

Nowadays they would be called a helicopter mom. But even a helicopter mom may hover over her child, but she still lets the child think and do things for themselves.

Boy, did I mistake all of that growing up as love. I thought she hovered because she loved me. That was never the case at all.
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Shell,

I think, even though our childhood treatment seems to be polar opposites, the outcome is that we have equally struggled to figure out who we are!!

You're NM didn't try to nurture or mold you, while mine tried to mold me into what she always wanted herself to be.

Lea,

In my studies, I recall that there are 3 types of narcissist.
1) Overt
2) Covert
3) Exobitionist

It seems the one common threads is the F.O.G.

Today my Mom called me. She started talking about her move. She was using words like "We" and "Us"!

OMG!! There is no "We" or "Us"!
There is only "Her"!

I thought about writing her a letter!
I think I need to just grow a pair!!
I need to have "The Talk" with her! I need to know that she hears me when I tell her that I do not support her decision.
I am willing to help, but I can't be at her beckon call.
She needs to take ME out of the equation and plan her move knowing this!!

I am totally stressed about having this conversation. I know it's not gonna go well. If she can just let me speak and get this off my chest maybe we can move forward.

My suspicion is that the conversation is going to quickly end with her in tears and hanging up on me!

Wish me luck!!🤞🤞🙏🙏🙏
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Elaine,

As children of narcissists, we are taught that we earn love by what we do, not by who we are!

So we spent the majority of our lives trying to earn love by doing things for people we want to love us. Or sometimes doing things out of our comfort zone to earn love from people who don't deserve it!

I will bare my soul!

I think it's fair to say that we've all heard about girls that have Daddy issues. I am realizing that it's also possible to have Mommy issues.

I was very promiscuous in my late teens and early 20's. I sought the love, comfort and security that I never got at home!

It seems crazy to me that it's taken me so long to figure it out.!
And although I can see it all so clearly, it's so hard to break the cycle of F.O.G. I am begining to see that the only way to go about it is to just rip the bandaid off!

Either way, it's going to cause me pain and anguish! But I think it's better for me to set boundaries knowing they will be breached as opposed to holding my tongue and hoping for the best!
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Zrayjodib, I too was promiscuous in my teens. Looking for love or whatever it was at the time. Trying to feel something, anything. I met my husband and I married him at age 22. I went right from living at home to living with my husband with never being alone by myself.

Looking back, I think my husband saved my life. He was and still is kind and gentle and isn’t and never was the yelling and screaming type like I grew up with in my household.

He took me away from all the chaos and we are still married.

It’s funny how after reading lealonnie’s post about her mom being NM #2, it really triggered me. I was at work and all I could think about was my mother and from a very early age, her not LISTENING to me when I really needed her there.

She sent me to various babysitters and I felt so alone because my parents would go to lasvegas for a week or 2 and my brother was much older then me and was already doing his own thing. I just felt alone and I couldn’t talk to my mother how I was feeling when I was 4 years old because she didn’t want to hear it.

My mother passed away on October 31 2020 from a stroke and I thought it would be a relief with her gone. It’s not a relief. All the negative tapes play back over and over in my mind. I just with there was a way to stop the tapes.

Do what is right for you. You don’t owe your mom anything. You have every right to speak up to her. Please take care of you. Thank you for baring your soul. I did the same and I must say, I feel better. Thank you Xrayjodib for listening.
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X-ray, Shell, lealonnie. I also realized that we had the the type of mothers that if we had been born gay, or transgender, or anything other than heterosexual, I know my mother would have disowned me. I’m not gay, but if I was, I never would have told my mother.

My oldest son is gay and none of us ever told my mother because she would have disowned him even though they were so close. So he decided to never tell her.

These NM mothers that we have could never understand and would not be supportive because it’s all about THEM.

What I have learned from this forum. Is that we are NOT our Mothers!!!! She doesn’t define who we are. We are nothing like our mothers!!! When my son told me he was gay, I told him we loved him no matter what. It doesn’t matter. We want him to be himself. To be his authentic self. That is what our NM should have taught us. To be ourselves, not be who they wanted us to be.

We all deserved better than what we got. Even with her death, I’m still trying to process it all. Hugs to all of you and take care of YOU, because YOU matter!!
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I shall wade in here after an absence of a few days while I’ve been busy sorting out more of my mum’s things. I think it was StillDealing who said she felt “motherless”. This really struck home with me and I’ve been thinking about this over the past few days. Looking back through my life, yes, I would say that “motherless” perfectly sums up the root cause of so much pain and anguish. I would say my mother was the type 1 narcissistic parent: pretty much “absent” when I was a young child, sending me off to my grandparents every weekend and school holiday rather than look after me herself, always making excuses that she couldn’t get time off work to come to any school event, never offering any emotional support or any hugs, and the “big one”: walking out when I was 15 and never coming back. I totally understand the promiscuity as a way of looking for the love that was never there, plus the constantly trying to prove your worth and to show that you are a decent person - to the one person who can never give you that validation. I probably started to think that my mother was a NM about 4 years ago, when I read about this by accident, and it has explained so much. I realised there is no point trying to elicit love or validation of your worth from an NM as they do not have it in their power to confer this on you. Everything is just a transaction with my mother, so I decided it was better for me to be transactional in return and save myself the emotional damage. I am so grateful for the honesty and support on this forum, from others with the same experiences. I think we can all be stronger by being here.
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Chris your mom walking out when you were 15 is a huge deal. Was she having some sort of crisis? (if you want to say, no worries if not). I'm sorry you went through that, I am also impressed by the strong and capable woman you grew up to be. Not only have you successfully raised your own family but you have been taking good care of your mother for 10 plus years! Well done my friend.

I'm so tired. I didn't see my mom yesterday, so I'm already feeling the pressure to socialize with her today in some capacity. I was awake at 4:30 AM thinking about it with feelings of dread. This is no way to live and I'm changing things the second I see a crack of a chance. I'm starting to obsess about "competency" wondering how much of a lunatic she is going to have to get to in order for me to force placement in MC. I read the other day that in FL only a judge can declare someone incompetent. Not a primary care or a diagnosis of dementia. Oh great so I have a court battle ahead of me? I should just go ahead and make an appointment with an elder care attorney. I need to find out what the real deal is on placement in Florida.

On a better note, I'm taking my mom for her first covid shot on Monday. The next one is set for March 15. Really hoping some semblance of "normalcy" returns by summer. I'm aware that covid has made everything so much harder, and I'm hoping relief from the covid imposed isolation will make everything a little easier.
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