Caregiving for a narcissistic mother. Do we do it out of love or out of years of guilt and programming?

Piper, my parents had an argument one evening and she flounced off to my grandparents. My father told her the door was always open if she wanted to come back, but it didn't happen. She rented herself a cottage instead. I think she was looking for an excuse to go anyway. Neither of my parents were blameless as both had extra marital affairs. I think my mother jumped ship when she could be sure of a safe landing - she had a "gentleman friend" by then, and although he didn't move in with her, he was around to support her. She married him when her divorce came through. When I write this it sounds awful. It was. I could never behave like that towards my son. No wonder I've had anxiety all my life - presumably to do with abandonment I expect. I went through life not really telling people about this, as though it was my shameful secret, but now I see it as my mother's shame, not mine. I've told some of my friends but I've found it's been very awkward as they are very shocked, but thankfully supportive. Piper, I think you need to start putting a rough plan together of how you're going to deal with your mother - I know we've said this before. I empathise with you waking in the night worrying. I've done the same. I ended up keeping a notepad by the bed so I could jot down things that were bothering me, and it helped offload some of the worry. I agree that Covid has just added to the stress levels and reduced the opportunities for us to get away from our own situations for some respite. Once again I come back to this Forum and how it is really helping during this isolating period in our lives.

Well I ripped the band aid off this morning! It was pretty much as I expected.

Before I called her, my Fitbit said my pulse was 152 bpm!!!

I calmly asked her what her expectations of me were going to be if she moves into an apartment? Her reply was "I haven't really thought about it. "
I told her that's exactly what I was was concerned about. While I was in the middle of expressing my concerns, she cut me off. First came the anger and guilt trip(I'm not worried about her, only my own happiness). Then came the crying and more guilt. She said "If I have to stay here, I might as well be dead!"

I stayed calm and told her that she really needed to think about her expectations and when she has a list, let me know.

I find it very ironic that she's accusing me of being selfish when she admitted that she hasn't even considered what this move is going to do to me!!

I would like to say that I feel better having talked to her, but the truth is I don't. I know she has dug in her heels and come Hell or high water, she's gonna do this stupid thing.

I do feel proud of myself that I stayed calm and confronted her, however, I think this is the calm before the storm. Lol

Jodi, amazing that the NM language is the same whether you are in the US or UK. My mother said she wished she was dead, whenever things weren't going the way she wanted them to go. It's ironic really when for a narcssist, their very existence is centre stage for everything in their lives. Here's a thought...why don't you make a list of YOUR expectations of what YOU will and won't do if your mother makes this move. Give her a copy to read and think over. If she still goes ahead with the move, she can't say she wasn't warned....

Chris,

So true!! If it's not all about them, it's not worth caring about!

I think writing out my expectations is a great idea!

Thanks!😘

Xray-I applaud you for 'ripping off the bandaid"! Now just try and stick with it. By continuing to ask your mother how/what she is going to do if/when she moves into an apartment, it will hopefully accomplish 2 things: (1)make her actually think about it (instead of relying on you to clean up her messes), and (2) send her the clear message you are NOT going to clean up the mess. Try to disregard the crying and yelling and all that, because your NM is counting on you to back down when she uses those practiced histrionics. See, if YOU change, she has no choice but to change. She doesn't want change, so will up the ante to keep the status quo. Just keep repeating a few stat phrases, such as: "Sorry, Mum, I can't do that; Sorry Mum, that doesn't work ..." She will of course accuse you of only thinking of yourself, being selfish, ungrateful, whatever...don't buy it. Quit thinking about her as your mother; ask yourself how would you deal with this person if you were a neighbor, and a neighbor acted like this. You would probably give the antics pretty short shrift.
In my case, my NM is trying to force her elderly, not in very good shape adult children to provide physical caretaking of her, in her own home, whilst she lives her last weeks/months. If she had no resources, then this would not necessarily be so unreasonable. However, her insurance will pay every penny of first class inpatient hospice care in a private facility. But! She wants US to change her diapers, and clean up her messes, and spoon feed her, and listen to her endless rewriting of her history, our histories..whatever...
since I am NM's designated 'blacksheep' child, it is my job (siblings won't say 'boo' to NM) to repeatedly remind her that we (the adult children) are in no position to provide 24/7 home based caretaking (thus forcing her to accept she is going to have to make a better decision for her care). She hisses (literally), puffs, sighs, sneers, makes nasty remarks, tries to play the guilt card, but guess what? She is now talking to her pt home aid about going to a hospice facility.
I plan on sticking to my plan. She can stick to whatever plan (or not) she wants. I am not, and will not, be her keeper.

Elaine; my mother DID disown me when I started DATING a man she was prejudiced against! Yep, they actually BOTH threw me out of the house at just barely 18 years old and I rented a room in someone's house (upstairs) for $200 a month.

Jodi, your NM has already thought long & hard about EVERYTHING she expects from you once she moves into her new place, and is prepping you nicely for all of her tantrums and guilt trips NOW, so you can be SO nerved up by the time she does move in, you'll be willing to move heaven & earth just to shut her up. Make sure you speak to your therapist about a good, solid plan of action to have in place NOW so that you can ward off ALL of the BS that's coming. And NOT feel ONE OUNCE OF GUILT over it, either.

stilldealing; it truly blows my mind that your NM wants you all to change her diapers and tend to her every need when she has the $$$$ for 24/7 in home caregivers. Just shows to go ya how these women are, at their core. Willing and gleeful to watch US die of a nervous breakdown or sheer exhaustion rather than have others help them out. Disgusting and shameful behavior. I'm sorry you are going through this. Sending you a hug of compassion and understanding.

Mom is sundowning hard now and we had a horrendous conversation, if you can call it that, on the phone last night. She was 'looking all over the apartments' for me and then was ranting about her dead sister and all sorts of horrible things, and managed NOT to eat dinner she was so confused. The 'conversation' ended (as usual) with her telling me how she wants to die so so badly, and how she knows I don't like when she says that, but she's gonna say it ANYWAY, b/c I have no idea how horrible her life is. I commiserated with her, agreed with her even FFS, what am I supposed to do? What CAN I do? That's what these women don't understand; they just want US to absorb THEIR pain.

The other day she told me she 'fell three times in the shower and some man' had to pick her up; it took me quite a while to get to the bottom of things but she did NOT fall and the 'some man' was her regular CAREGIVER who was called in to help the CG that was showering her when she was slipping. Even WITH the shower shoes she's again slipping around in the shower! Losing core strength has been a very bad thing for her so now I had to get her another new mat for the shower. Also, she has an infected big toe (which makes no sense since she's w/c bound) and the doctor ordered her NOT to wear a shoe on that foot so they have her wearing ONE SHOE ONLY. When the nurse called me just now, I lost it. WTF would you have her in ONE SHOE, that is DANGEROUS? Put her in anti skid socks (which I'm also ordering extras of) and that's that, until she's 100% healed. DH had to go over there AGAIN to 'fix' the new adjustable bed b/c it wasn't working; turned out the CORD was UNPLUGGED from the BOX. HELLO????????????? I feel like I need 2 Xanax and a large pizza right now.

I absolutely LOVE you all!!

Thanks for the great advice!!

(((HUGS)))

Lealonnie, I’ll come join you with the Xanax and pizza, lol. I need both of those right now!!

elaine: Sending hugs.💛

Chris,

I sent my NM a list of my expectations via text. I also forwarded it my brothers so they would know exactly what I said to her. She has a way of twisting things!

In short, I told her that I will do her shopping once a week and visit.
We will bring her to our house for holidays.
I will take her to her Doctor appointments as long as they don't conflict with mine . So we need to communicate about our appointments.

I can not set up her apartment due to my recent surgery. She will need to do it herself or hire someone to do it for her .

She needs to plan her future as if I am not in it!

I haven't gotten a response, but I will keep you posted.

I actually am feeling free for the first time in a long time!

I have completely spoken my mind to her!!

Let's see how she responds!

All, I’ll take that pizza too, but I’ll swap the meds for a bottle of Italian red.

Jodi, well done! You got onto that list pretty quickly - it was all inside your head - you just needed to get it out and onto paper! I suspect you have just lit the fuse.. expect the fireworks to go off soon! I am so happy for you that you’ve done this and are feeling better for it!

Lea, "some man" had to come & help was the regular caregiver! Oh boy!

It really gives insight into her reality... how she is in a different world to your reality. She can't travel back to normal thinking land... so I suppose you join her ideas for a bit of peace? But I'd be visiting pizza xanax planet for some time out too.

Xray 💪💪💪

I can feel your NO muscle is RIPPED! Explained yourself with confidence - I will do this - but I won't do that. This is the holy middle ground I try for... that sweet spot between passive (yes Ma'am) & aggressive (no way get ef) = Assertive.

Now the ball is in Mom's court. She can decide to 'change her mind' either graciously, or rediciously "I never said I wanted to move!" or go ahead with stubbornness hoping to force your obedience.

Keep us updated.

Jodi, you ROCK!

Lea, have your mom tested for a UTI, maybe? (((((Hugs))))))

Chris thanks for sharing what happened when your mom left. It was abandonment. But it's also her narcissism. I have a very good friend I've known since 2nd grade. Her mother left too when she was about 14/15 and my friend was left with her dad. Her mom ended up getting dementia and lived with my friend the last few years, she died a few months ago. My friend misses her dearly. The difference is her mother was not a narcissist. She was a loving woman but went through a crisis and wanted out of her marriage badly. The most hurtful thing to a child imo is a narcissistic parent. Parents don't have to be perfect, just don't be a narcissist.

How did things go with your dad? I'm sometimes amazed at how my relationship with my parents was so different for each of them.

I cared for my dad too when he had cancer. That lasted about 3 years, and I was so devastated when he died. My care experience with him was literally the polar opposite of what I'm doing now with my mom. I cherished my time with him so much, even doing things like helping him with colostomy care. I wanted to be around him as much as I could. Yeah, polar opposite indeed.
Maybe I had some false hope that I could do good job with my mom too. Well, that obviously isn't the case.

I'm still giving myself a year to see what happens. I don't see that I have much of a choice all things considered. The only thing I know for sure is that I'm not willing to do anything close to 24/7 care, or even much more than I am doing right now. Therefore things will have to change. My mom's needs are only going to increase.

By the way, I wanted to mention something that happened on her birthday. Things went well for her at my place because we made it her day. She loved the food and flowers. She went home about 6PM. The next morning I got a text from her, she was upset. Apparently she had turned her phone to mute, and missed calls from 5 people. My son, brother, niece and 2 friends.

It made me wonder where her head was when she went back home, it was still early for her. She expects attention on her birthday, no doubt about that, so when the calls never came, how did she NOT think to look at her phone, and why was it muted anyway? For some reason this happens frequently. And every time I show her where the on/mute is, and she denies touching it.
Just another incident that proves to me my mom is declining. I mean I know she is, but these incidents still rattle me. I could see someone brushing it off as nothing. Big deal, she accidently hit the mute button. But I see the bigger picture. Her NOT even looking at her phone on her birthday (a big deal to HER) is very OFF.

Hey Jodi, good idea to give your mom a list! But I still hope she doesn't make the move. There is a reason your pulse was 152. I feel compelled to tell you to keep trying to stop this move if you can.

Lea, I think Barb had a good suggestion about checking for a UTI. Is the cymbalta still keeping her mood better? One shoe??? What were they thinking? I wish I could bring you some pizza and Xanax!

EP, I'm glad your mom liked the bday dinner. The phone thing is a BIG sign of decline imo, you are right. When she's not thinking clearly, it doesn't dawn on her to check her phone and say gee why is nobody calling on my bday? I can't tell you the trouble mine has with the phone,,,,,I can write a BOOK! Just one thing she does now is forgets to push the Off button (she has a cordless landline in her room) so when I call, there's a busy signal. I've had to call the MC to go in there to turn the phone off on more than one occasion. And this happens right after I call her and she pushes the wrong button and disconnects the call. So you'd think she'd say to herself, Oh Lea is gonna call back in a minute, maybe I should check the phone. Nope. That's dementia.

My dad was a dear man too. I miss him a lot, he passed in 2015. I think my mother is still alive bc he's just not ready to deal with Her again after 68 years of marriage 🤣

Mom does not have a UTI. She's back on Cymbalta and the dementia has worsened as expected, but SOME of the pain has decreased. Her mood is better in general, less complaining, which is nice.....but it differs from day to day.

Beatty, I always join my mother in her reality to the extent I am able. It's easier that way, truthfully. The pizza made me sick and I don't take Xanax unless it's a real emergency. 😮

Jodi....I am glad you did what you did for YOUR sake. Nobody understands the anxiety we suffer at the hands of these women. My DH is always saying that my mother makes me crazy and I shouldn't allow it. REALLY ????? Like HOW exactly do I go about sloughing off ALL of the chronic aggravation and misery she creates for me? For him to even utter such words shows the pure lack of understanding of the ENTIRE situation. Like there's an OFF button any of us can simply flip whenever we need to. Like the blood pressure issue isn't a very physical side effect of an emotional issue, huh? Stand your ground Jodi, and God bless and guide you, and all of us traveling this rocky road. One day at a time, right?

Xray,
I am so proud of you! 🎉👏
It is funny that you brought up about mommy issues because I was wondering the samething the other night! Asking myself did I make the decisions I did because of my NM?
In my own journey in this narcissistic nightmare I have found that I no longer care what my NM thinks of me...I don't need her love, validation, or approval! Moreover, if I want my NM to do one thing that she'll do the opposite...if I think it's a bad idea she'll do it anyway; therefore, I have learned to either keep my mouth shut because there no reason for me to say anything or just let her do what she wants to do and leave HER with the mess, which isn't always easy! You are doing the right thing by making a list of what you'll do and what you won't do! Of course, your NM will feel it's not fair because to them it is never fair that they can't have their way or they get stuck with the consequences! I just love how our NMs turn everything around and make it about them and never think how their ACTIONS effect us!! I do find that once you confront your NM it gets easier as long as you stand your ground! You can do this!!


Elaine, Good for you for loving your son and standing by his side! My NM would tell you that she loves gay people, but she taught me to hate them and that they are sinners! However, I had a manager who was gay at my first job and she taught me so much and she was a great person and a patience person. I grew up having many gay friends and my NM told me that I would burn in h3ll with them; of course, my dad put my NM in her place and she never spoke about my friends again!!


Piper,
It is strange that we can have a great relationship with one parent and not the other and yet, we still feel that we are not good enough or not loveable. I helped took care of my dad when he had cancer and it is Very Different! I love my dad dearly and had all the patience in the world with him and no patience for my NM! I am just done with her selfishness and how everything is about her to no thought of me...my health...my life...my dreams...just her! I used to tell her that stress has and can put me in the hospital, but she just ignores it and when I have been hospitalized all she could think about was who would take care of HER!

Chris, Thank you for sharing your story. I offen wish that my NM would have walked out the door and never return, but perhaps I would still feel the same way. I see that now! Whether our NMs left, worked full-time, or stayed home (like mine did) we were abandoned and made to feel less than! And we are still paying the price for their selfishness!!


It is so sad how we all have anxiety because of one person. The person who is suppose to love and except us.

Lealonnie, my mother did the same thing with her cordless landline phone. The past 2 years she wouldn’t press the off button, so when I would call her I got a busy signal.

She would deny that she forgot to turn the phone off. I said I would call you right back after talking to you and would get a busy signal. She would say there is something wrong with the phone. This happened all the time.

I checked out the phone and there was never anything wrong with it. If I needed to speak to her about something that was important I would have to drive over snd tell her myself. It was infuriating!!

I hope your mom starts feeling better on the Cymbalta.

Piper, you asked about my dad. Thankfully I had a good relationship with him, which just got better and better as we went through life. My mother had painted him as the villain (in true narc style) so when she left I was afraid of him to start with. But he turned out to be quite caring and ensured my home life and education were as good as they could be, under the circumstances. This thread is all about NMs, but did others find support from their fathers?

Xray- Wow! Glad that you have taken a stand, in writing, about your mother's poor decision to move. Just be prepared for an increase in manipulative behaviors, and don't back down. And don't waiver from your plan. Start making your life about YOU, not her. I've had to remind myself of this very same advice this week. And its working in the sense that I am staying away from some pretty serious NM-induced senseless and unnecessary drama this week.
Chriscat and Piper- I, too, had a very close relationship with my Dad, and spent a great deal of loving time with him while he treated for cancer. It was really close and emotional, in a good way. I learned alot from trying to be like my Dad: about kindness, patience, hard work, diligence, keeping good humor...he was really my only parent in the sense of the word of what a parent should be. I think of him whenever I begin fearing that i may become like my mother, and it helps.

Went to make dinner and notice that I have $40 of hamburger and $60 of pork chops missing! This is what my NM has been doing to me. I did or didn't do something to her and because I pay for all the meat she just throws it away! I am mad as a mad-hater!! This is not the first time she has done this! Of course, they did it???? 🤬

Elaine, that phone thing is SO annoying, omg. My NM is constantly saying the 'phone is broke' too and it never is. Last night she said she dropped the phone and it 'broke into 100 pieces' yet she was speaking to me on it. When I said, well I guess it didn't actually break when you dropped it, she said "I NEVER said it broke." Just the usual 'jump down the rabbit hole' crap I deal with on a daily basis. In fact, I called the woman for 3 hours last night & convinced myself she was laying on the floor out of reach of the call button in the MC. Of course she wasn't. She was 'in bed with diarrhea' which makes NO SENSE and irritated that I had called her! When she finally picked up, she said in an annoyed tone, 'yeah someone has been trying to call me all night.' Uh yeah ma, that would BE ME. So today at the window visit in 35 degree weather, I told her, YOU CALL ME IN THE FUTURE IF YOU WANT TO TALK. I'm about done with all the drama & histrionics. She looks fine to me, honestly.

Shell............your mother's dementia is taking a real turn for the worst if she's claiming 'they' stole all that meat or 'they' threw it out! Perhaps THEY can feed her, too, since now there's nothing to eat in the house, thanks to all the meat being tossed out! Can you install a key lock or a combination lock on the freezer (if that's where it was stored)? I honestly do not know HOW you are dealing with all this BS, Shell. Sending you a big hug.

My dad was very stand offish, really. He was cowed by my NM who villainized him something fierce; he was The Devil, naturally..........and he was very unaffectionate with me. Never remember him saying I was pretty or that he loved me, not until he was at the end of his life. I loved my dad though, he was a good and decent man, although he stuck up for my mother continuously. Every time I got angry with her for her bad treatment of HIM, there he was, standing up for HER! Totally dysfunctional relationship it was. So in reality, I didn't have a close relationship with either one of my parents, but I would have moved heaven and earth for dad. And I'm doing it for my mother TOO, in reality.

Today she kept asking DH 'what do you think of my new bed?' trying to get him to say he hated it. He was with me when I picked the damn thing out and had it delivered & set up. It's an adjustable bed with a wonderful pillow top mattress. I knew she'd have something rotten to say about a $1200 new bed, but she won't say it to ME.........she wants to hear that DH 'hates' it so she can agree with HIM and leave me out of the loop. I'm like.............the bed is brand new mom, there's nothing wrong with it, you were complaining bitterly about the old bed, so now you have a new one, at the MCs request b/c they can't get you UP w/o 2 people, so let it go please. We lasted for 25 minutes in the biting wind and we left.

Why are these NMs never, ever satisfied with ANYTHING?

Finally got a text response from NM.

Her response to my expectations was that she hadn't thought of it those terms! My interpretation is that (of course), she's only thinking about herself! Seriously, she wants to move into an apartment with no car? No way to get anywhere, but she doesn't realize how that may affect my life? I'm not buying it!!!

She said she worries about my health and doesn't want to put any undo stress on me(BS), then turned around and threw my brothers under the bus. She says that after her pleas for financial help, they've done nothing! And I need to understand how much stress that causes her! Everything is a competition with her!!

I have been sharing every text with my brothers, because I understand now how narcissists try and pit people against each other. I believe it's called triangulation.

My brothers are completely angry after reading her words!

The upside of all this is that I set the boundaries!! And when she tries to push the envelope, I can remind her of these conversations.

I have it in writing!!

I am humbled by how you are all willing to share your experiences !!

Like me, so many of you have shared how you feel validated!!

Sometimes I think this forum is better than therapy! And a whole lot cheaper!! Lol

(((HUGS)))

Jodi, you sound so much more powerful and in control of your situation than you did a week ago. You are absolutely right to share all that your mother says or does with your brothers - get the truth out there before it is corrupted. Don't get sucked into any of the games. Stick to your plan and to the list of what you will and will not do, moving forward. Don't let your mother deflect the attention onto your health - isn't this the beginnings of gaslighting? Stay strong sister!!

xray, we should stay in touch on this. My mother is also planning to move into a smaller place - most likely a condo - close to me because she's assumed I'm her hands-on care committee. I have extremely mixed feelings about this to say the least. Spent a little time today doing research on what the Medicaid spend down laws are in my state because she is NOT moving in with me, ever, and I am likely going to need some help before this is all over. Longevity runs in our family, nmom's grandmother lived to be 100, aunt was 95 which means I may have at least another decade of this to deal with.

Today I'm struggling with the fact that I can't have a logical conversation with mother at all about any of this - when I talk about what's going to happen when she can't drive any more she says she'll take uber which I don't believe for a second. She is 100% counting on me to provide whatever time, attention and money she wants no ifs ands or buts about it. I have one sibling, a half brother who also has a personality disorder and is extremely difficult to be around - I haven't seen him in 18 years - but as mother has made a big point of having him in her life even though he did awful psychological things to me when I was too young to defend myself I think she should call him for her needs at least occasionally. I think I'm going to start saying so. I'm also going to start telling her to call the other people in her life for company instead of insisting on me sitting on the phone with her for hours. It's making me miserable.

Other items in no particular order: Someone, I think chriscat, mentioned keeping notes - I've been writing a journal every day which has really helped. Just sort of helps get things down on paper so they're not clanging around in my head all day. I'm really trying to come to terms with the fact that it hit me like a ton of bricks here lately that my mother probably honestly would qualify for a bona fide NPD diagnosis. On the one hand certain things make sense, on another I'm trying to get a handle on the fact that nothing I say or do is going to make much difference in getting mother to back off, since like other narcs she sees me as her property and an extension of herself. It's a hard thing to realize.

Another thing is a book by Nina Brown which I may have mentioned, "Children of the Aging Self Absorbed." It says to provide sympathy, but not empathy - as in, listen to the endless complaining but don't offer to provide solutions yourself, which I'm going to try whenever I have to deal with mother again. I haven't taked to her in a couple of weeks since I found out she gave $1000 worth of my belongings to Goodwill without asking or telling me. (I'm not sure if I'm more mad about that or about the fact that I have had to listen to her talk about trivia related to her plans to move for at least an hour a day for close to a year. As part of this she's been telling me she was getting rid of things and when I finally got over there she had only gotten rid of MY things which I was storing over there, long story - everything else was untouched (!) I just feel like I've been buffaloed again, in which she fails to do anything to improve her own situation - but I'm sure she's expecting me to come over there and spend a lot of time "helping," i.e. doing it FOR her.

I'm milking the NC for as long as I can, but I figure I won't have too much longer before she'll start enlisting flying monkeys to get me back in the fold, or more likely develop an illness for which I will "have to" come and attend. Sigh.

So tired of feeling like I'm living on a treadmill with no end in sight. Isolation and jobless spouse both due to covid are NOT helping. Think I probably should try to get more exercise to deal with the stress, though I've been pretty good about hiking lately - and snow shoveling this week!

Oh, and - I miss my dad like you'd miss your right arm. He's been gone 19 years now and I doubt I'll ever completely get over it. He was the only one I could completely trust to have my back when my mother was up to her antics - though luckily DH has some of his good qualities. Wish they'd gotten to know each other but I'd only dated DH a few months when Dad died.

Hellebore, good to hear the journal-keeping is helping. I agree also that exercise is hugely beneficial. I don't know if you've heard of the term "compassionate detatchment", or whether I've mentioned this before. The idea is that you care that the difficult person is safe, etc, but you detach yourself physically and/or emotionally from the scenario. This means you could take care of some things from a distance but you don't get sucked into running around catering for their every need. It also means you don't allow the words and actions to cut through to you and upset you. It takes a lot of hard work to develop this technique, but it's worth the effort for the postive effect on your wellbeing.

Jodi and Hellebore, I'm sorry to sound like a negative broken record in here but once again I feel compelled to warn you both. The amount of regret that I have for not STOPPING my mother from moving close to me is IMMENSE.

Like both of you I got the lip service (aka manipulation) that everything would work out fine. That this move was just to be closer for some casual support. Nothing big and certainly not disruptive. My mom laid it on thick (lied) how she was going to make friends and travel, and do her own thing. I have no proof of this but I highly suspect that my mother knew dementia was setting in too, and deliberately did not tell me. Her BFF sure knew, and didn't tell me. A rosey picture was painted, that's for sure. Unfortunately I was also very much in the FOG, so a poor decision was made.

The rest is history and misery. She has NO life of her own, NO friends of her own, everyday I have to work at boundaries AGAIN. Her dementia is progressing and so is her dependency. I mean my post history speaks for itself. AND now I am stuck! She isn't going anywhere anytime soon, that's for sure.

Back when she was wanting to move (planning to hijack my life) what I should have done was to tell her - fine if you choose to move, but all I am willing to do is help you get into assisted living (on her dime).

She may have refused. Who knows what she would have done. It would have been hard conversation for me to have - but not NEARLY as hard as having the burden I have now. And not nearly as hard as the fact that I will have to move her AGAIN, when she is NOT willing, and it's going to be a nightmare.

Don't kid yourselves. When the needs increase you WILL be expected to take on the care. Don't set yourselves up to where you will have to go see a lawyer and possibly a court judge about competency just to get a soul sucking lunatic out of your daily life.

I'm sorry to sound so dramatic, but honestly I wish somebody would have warned me.

Piper, I 100% believe you and empathize especially with your mother being right next door. But my problem is money - I'm told average cost for AL in our area is about 4K a month. Mom has no savings and no income other than Social Security which IIRC is about 1200 a month. She's probably only got about 100-150K equity in her house so by my math that's only about 2-3 years she'd be able to pay for AL. Fortunately or unfortunately (depending on your perspective) longevity runs in our family. Mom is 82 and I'd say she could easily be "on my plate" so to speak for at least another 10.

I'm just trying to get my mind around trying to get her to go to assisted living. One of the issues for me right now is constant complaining about how little money she has, which I'm sure is a real fear for her but is also a direct result of her failure to work and save (she retired at 55 with an advanced degree so she could do volunteer work for the next 27. Don't ask. :)) If my understanding is correct the only option when she runs out of money would be a Medicaid nursing home. Mom knows all this I'm sure and will fight me over it with everything in her power, including calling up/enlisting everyone in our very large, emotionally incestuous extended family to fight me too. Unfortunately they're not in a position to know her day to day so she'll portray things as though she's just fine and able bodied, and I'm an uncaring evil witch trying to "force her into a nursing home."

Part of this is that my dad left me a sizeable inheritance when he died, so she knows spouse and I have resources - DH also has a good job, so in her mind we can just use our resources to take care of her. Nevermind that we don't have kids to take care of *us* when we get old and a lot of our money is being saved for our own retirement. Of course she doesn't understand that because she didn't plan at all for HER retirement. (Sheez, this just occurred to me - what a great message board this is.... y'all really bring up food for thought!!)

Anyway, this is way too long already but I'll really think about it. I know it's illegal to throw people out of AL if they have to go on Medicaid but I don't know which ones in our area accept it or really anything at all about how that works. I think I'll call our local Council on Aging and ask.

Unfortunately I'll have to go this alone because mom is really resistant to any discussion of how she's getting increasingly debilitated - it's all "everything is fine" denial when she's visibly declined in the last three or four years, etc. I'm so sorry your mom snuck dementia past you piper - that sounds *exactly* like something my own mom would do!! I'm so glad I have you all to talk to. <3

Chris, thanks for the suggestion on the detachment. Any books you'd recommend? UK authors are fine, I have an Amazon.co.uk account I use often since I'm a big Anglophile and fan of British history. 👍