Today I had my first appointment with an actual therapist (not a counselor).
Even though one hour wasn't long enough to spew out everything I need to talk about, this woman completely picked up on 2 truly major points.
1) Even ONE of the stressors I have been dealing with over the last year is more than enough to warrant therapy!
2) I have been the "caregiver " for everyone in my family since I was 12 years old!
She asked me what I do for myself?
I had absolutely no answer!!
Hence therapy!! Lol
Caring for a narcissistic LO is a labor of love!
Not because they will love us back, but because we need to love ourselves!!
How do you keep caring selflessly for your selfish LO?
What do you do for yourself?
(((Hugs)))
You're right! I do feel more powerful. I have discovered that it's easier to text my NM with my thoughts on her moving. This has 2 benefits. First, I can forward the conversation to my brother's. Second, I avoid the anger, crying and guilt trips.
Hellebore,
Let's definitely stay in touch!
It seems like we're in the same boat!!
Hang in there!!
I totally agree with you!!
The problem is, I can't stop her!!
Because she still has her mind, I have very little say in what she does.
I have been very specific about what I'm willing to do, but it hasn't deterred her in the least!
She is the most stubborn woman I have ever met! Ugh!!
My suggestion to you is get her home valued by a real estate agent, see if she qualifies for any VA assistance if your father or she was a vet, and think about AL. Together with her SSI of $1200, even if no other funds are available, that would be $2800 a month out of pocket for her. If she cashed out $150k from the house, that $$$ would last quite a while! Just something to think about, right?
Jodi, you really DO NOT have a choice in the matter if your NM rents an apartment nearby. NMs are THE most stubborn people you'll ever meet b/c their powers of manipulation are second to NONE. I'm glad your brothers are being made aware of your NMs BS. Now you can present a UNITED FRONT to her about what you're each willing to do or not do for her. AL living will wind up to be her ONLY option in very short order when she sees and feels that very little help is forthcoming from you all. And having NO transportation available to her is utterly ridiculous. I hope she knows how to order Ubers and taxis!!
I'm just timing in, of course your upset with your NM giving your things away. It just isn't about the things, it is the lack of respect for you as a person, the lies she told on how she is getting rid of 'Some things' but not telling you that it is 'Your things'...it is the lack of compassion she shows and if you did it to her then "h3ll have no fury!" Because they can do and say what they want to us, but we better not dare do it to them. It is also a lack of how she didn't think about how it would make you feel!! I know this because my own NM has and does steal from me all the time. She has given my stuff away, sold them, just hid them, or thrown my things away at no concern to how it will make me feel! But I better not touch her stuff...as if I would!
I feel your pain. Feeling like your on a treadmill that you can't get off...I live it everyday as most of us do! But as I remind myself everyday that 'this to shall pass' and moreover, in the grand scheme of life this is just a moment in time and it will pass! Probabilities tells us that everything changes and this bad situation will change. We just have to hold on until it does! Hugs!!
Xray,
I am just so happy that you are taking your power back and by sharing the text messages you are getting ahead of the game (so to speak). Words of my dad "you may have lost some battles, but you can when the war." Believe me, we are all in a war and the war was declared when we were born or as a child, but make no mistake our NMs started this war!💖
I wonder if I might be able to sell mom on one of those "independent living" places - looks like they transition you into greater levels of care if the need arises. Hmmmm. I don't want to get my hopes up but just maybe.
Thanks Chris, I'll look for 'compassionate detachment.' I've decided I need to eat ramen to pay for it or do whatever I have to, but I really need a therapist. I just don't think I can do this alone. I'll ask her about it. In the meantime I found a great article.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/charm-harm/201703/how-protect-yourself-in-difficult-relationship
When my mother had the stroke and I went to call 911, the phone as nowhere near her.
Luckily I had my cell phone with me. But after she passed away I looked and looked and searched every bag for her phone and I NEVER found it.
I found her remote after cleaning out the kitchen. It was the very last item under her chair, but I never found her cordless phone.
She's telling me that she won't depend on me for anything other than emotional support! That's a full time job in itself!
Then she proceeded to tell me that she wants a dog! Again, she doesn't drive anymore.
Who is gonna take this dog to the Vet?
I understand that she wants to be independent. I do sympathize.
She's just not seeing the big picture!! It's just insane!!
Lea,
You're so right, this is completely manipulative!! She thinks I will have no choice but to help her!
I know the poop is gonna hit the fan if she moves into an apartment. I also know that my hubby will go off on her if she starts with the guilt trips!
So true, Jodi. The world does not end when our mothers don't approve!
Good for you.
Welcome to the thread!
You're right that our loved ones don't have the right to ruin our lives!
That's the problem with narcissists, they actually know what they're doing and they use manipulation tactics to get us to fall in to line.
It's extremely frustrating!!
You should tell your NM that you are SO relieved she's only going to rely on you for 'emotional support' these days b/c you have SO MUCH on your plate already that you can't possibly fit one more thing onto it w/o falling apart yourself! And, after all, what good would you be to ANYBODY if you had to go to to a rest home for months on end just to recuperate from a mental and physical collapse!? Two can play these games, you know.
Okiegranny, in a perfect world, no contact or limited contact is the perfect answer to a terrible problem with narcissistic parents and sounds like a simple, easy-peasy solution, too! It doesn't always work out that way, though, for about a million reasons including being an only child to a narcissistic parent and the only one available to them. If only there were such a simple answer to such a complex problem where these people occupy such a huge amount of space in their children's heads. I wonder what the solution is to THAT little issue???????? Even with limited contact, the stress they cause and the head space they occupy can't be remedied, I'm afraid.
"The world doesn't end when our mothers don't approve" says Barb. Very true! Now let's hope the 'disapproval' doesn't take on a life of it's own and cause lots of stress, headaches, upset stomachs and sleepless nights for our dear Jodi, as typical NM 'disapproval' often morphs into. The endless tricks up their sleeves are just that: endless.
Elaine, I wonder if your mother wound up throwing her cordless phone in the garbage by mistake? That is so strange! My mother took a pretty bad fall again on Sunday night; off of the toilet onto the floor b/c she refuses to ask for help. I think this constitutes fall #62 with no injuries/trips to the hospital, believe it or not. The marine nurse had to come pick her up & she was very flustered & upset. Sigh.
This is gold. I don't know why I haven't read it before. Soooooo good.
It is so true that our NM take up so much head space that you can't think about yourself and your own needs! Even when your not around them you are left with "what are they (NM) going to do now" because you know in your gut 'it is just a matter of time before they do something or say something.'
I wonder at times how are we all surviving the non stop stress that our NM causes?!
Xray,
Your NM is insane for wanting a dog! I get the loneliness, but she can't even take care of herself little long a dog! I'm with Lea on this one...Animal manipulation!!
At this point Mom has refuses to discuss anything having to do with her move any further.
So be it!!
I have no choice other than to let her do what she wants, however, I do have the choice to do only what I am comfortable doing.
As all of us know, it's going to be extremely difficult, but don't think for one minute that I am going to hesitate about throwing this in her face when it becomes an EPIC failure!
I have repeatedly reminded her how much she hated apartment living because of the noise. I have reminded her that bending over to pick up dog poop is not safe. So when she starts complaining after her move(and she will), I am gonna tell her that "I " refuse to discuss it!!
If she wants to be independent, than she needs to be Independent!!
I'm done!!
It's 'funny' how we remind these women of what they've said or done and they seem to have NO MEMORY of saying or doing it, isn't it?
Shell, yes, you are right. I got a call from mom's doctor a while ago. UGH. She wants her to wear no shoes for another 2 weeks, but I should buy her 'a pair of cheap sandals in a size too big.' I'm like YOU ARE KIDDING RIGHT?????????? Wasn't it enough she fell wearing the SOCKS she's in, now you want her wearing crappy sandals that are too big when she has no muscle control as it is? WTF? So she said what she needs is the shoes she's got but with a wider/larger toe box. I called the store where we bought them; they've been discontinued. BUT, they have 2 pair in stock; one in her size with a WIDER TOE BOX and one in a 1/2 size larger with a WIDER TOE BOX and I'm like whaaaaaaaat? I'll be right down! $170 for a pair of shoes for a woman in a WHEELCHAIR. But hey, at least they're not cheap sandals that are too big! Oh, I should say she's got an infected big toe from wearing these shoes WITHOUT SOCKS (hello?) b/c of residents rights and all that horse crap. So I hope I made myself clear by saying I DO NOT CARE ABOUT RESIDENTS RIGHTS when it comes to common sense things like wearing SOCKS for a woman who can't feel her feet due to neuropathy! God give me strength and a day OFF from all of this mind chatter.
I just counted out how many times I have moved Mom!
11 times in the last 20 years!!
That truly is insane !!!
Can’t help but ask, ‘Is your mom a gypsy?’
Sorry for sounding sarcastic but that is a LOT of moving.
That sounds truly exhausting!
It comes through on my newsfeed.
Plus I remember the misery that my sweet mother in law (only child to a narc mom) had in our family, with my husband’s grandmother.
I used to help out after my mother in law was diagnosed with lymphoma. My MIL would have loved having all of you to talk with.
Oh my gosh, my husband’s grandmother was truly an awful woman. I see so many of her characteristics described on this page.
It’s absolutely amazing that my mother in law was the exact opposite of her mom.
One thing that my MIL said to me, I will never forget. She said, “Most people learn WHAT to do from their mother. I learned what NOT to do from my mother.”
Just curious, do any of you identify with my mother in law’s feelings? My MIL lived her life the exact opposite of her mom!
By the way, my mother in law NEVER did the hands on caregiving for her mom. I think it would have driven her insane to do so.
She was involved in her life but when it came time for needing help she hired caregivers.
It is sad that my grandmother in law died alone in the hospital but she was so hateful that instead of wanting to make peace before her death, she wrote hate letters to everyone in the family.
No one could stomach her behavior anymore and she died completely alone.
Her husband, my grandfather in law was an angel, a wonderful man who lived in a different era where divorce wasn’t acceptable. Poor man died a broken man.
I believe in marriage but I would be lying if I said that all of us wished he would have divorced her, including my sweet mother in law. She told me that as a young girl she fantasized about her father being happy if he would only escape her clutches.
My MIL adored her father but was sad that he allowed her to run the show! He begged her to go see a psychiatrist but of course she refused because she thought everyone else was wrong, while she was perfect with no flaws!
I was astonished when my MIL told me that she never apologized for anything. That’s crazy! No one is so perfect that they never have to apologize. Apparently, she thought she was. Very sad.
I often wonder if she would have been helped with the aid of meds.
It surely would have been a relief for the family if she would have responded positively to medication.
Nope, she's not a gypsy! Lol
I think she's so unhappy on the inside, that she thinks changing the outside is going to help her be happy. Of course it's not!!
And she's so wrapped up in her pursuit happiness that she doesn't realize how hard it is on me.
Every time she moves, she says "This is the last time. "
Lord help me!! Lol
And YES, I can identify with your MIL!!
It's very common for children of narcissists to become over pleasers! Again, that's how we earn love!
As over pleasers, we're willing to put our own needs aside to help anyone ! I imagine Chris, Lea, Shell, Hellebore and the others would say that they have been guilty of dropping everything to help a friend in need.
When you finally realize that you're efforts are unappreciated and unnoticed by your narcissistic parents, you start to go thru the same stages as grief.
Anger, guilt, denial and acceptance.
It's agonizing grieving the loss of the parent you never had! Especially when they are still living and dependent on you!
That’s sad. Isn’t it? Sad for her and excruciating for you.
My gosh, helping a mom move that many times would drain the life out of anyone!
Changing an environment can be a positive change but I understand that isn’t the situation with your mom.
Sorry that you have dealt with all that you have.
I feel badly for anyone dealing with parents that are difficult.
I look back on what I endured with my mom and I honestly don’t know how I made it though without totally losing my mind!
Even in the best of circumstances, caregiving is challenging.
In the worst scenarios, it becomes a nightmare.
My mom has her issues but there were good times earlier in my life with her.
Now that my caregiver days are over with her, it’s easier and healthier for me to remember the good times. It’s painful for me to reflect deeply on the negative.
You can't save a person from herself, so why try? You are right to wash your hands of this b/c that's what she's asked for. Sending you a big hug; you must be exhausted.
My heart aches for you!!!
Please know that you're not alone!! We're here for you!!
Do whatever it takes to keep your sanity and still be able to look at yourself in the mirror!!
(((Hugs))) and prayers!
Perfect term, “momma drama.” So sorry that you are dealing with your mom’s drama.
I was chatting a minute ago about memories of my husband’s grandmother.
My MIL often said, “My mother missed her true calling. She should have been a Hollywood actress! She can turn on the charm when she wants something and she can turn on the tears just as easily.”
True statement with my husband’s grandmother. We used to joke with each other saying that she would have won many academy awards for her performances! LOL
That's funny!!
I've thought for years that my NM should have been a stage Mom.
She's always telling people that she taught me everything I know!
Heaven forbid I should have some natural talent of my own!
Your stories about your mom are mind boggling for sure.
My mom had issues with shoes too. It was so frustrating trying to please her.
They get something in their head and it is impossible to reason with them.
I used to feel like my life was viewing one of those ‘victim of the week’ movies on television! LOL 😂 The kind of movie that I NEVER watch.
I used to tell my husband that anyone could turn off a crappy movie but living in a ‘crappy drama’ was horrible!
There isn’t any point in trying to reason with any of it. It’s sad that we wasted so much time and energy on sincerely trying to improve our mother’s lives, when it was an impossible task from the start!
This forum could provide material for ‘victims of the week movies’ plus ‘stand up comics!’