Caregiving for a narcissistic mother. Do we do it out of love or out of years of guilt and programming?

Lea, your mother’s behaviour today was dreadful - pure narcissism, trying to ruin the joy you feel about your new grandchild. Disgusting. You did absolutely the right thing to end the visit immediately. Try to reduce the emotional impact of that horrible visit over the next few days by planning some good things for you and your family to enjoy together, if you can. How was my day? Well, I opened a birthday card from my stepmother, a few days early as I knew it could spoil the actual day, as it has done before. In it was also a card for my son, not in a separate envelope, so for me to see before passing it on to him, telling him she’d appointed him as an executor in her new will, in which she has cut me out completely. Nice. I’ve thrown the birthday card away and look forward to a non-toxic birthday later on this week. These people! You couldn’t make this stuff up.

Beatty, interesting you talk about bitterness and regret. In my experience there is a lot of bitterness in my stepmother, but as far as regret goes, do you mean these types regret the actions and choices they have made in life, or that they blame others as a result of the regret they’re feeling? There is a lot of the “blame culture” in both my mother and stepmother, often but not exclusively aimed at me. I’m still trying to make sense of it.

Oh, my goodness, Chris! Gaaah! So sorry! In your birthday card! Eeeeek! Big hugs!

Good for you for having the foreknowledge to open that mail up, and promptly putting it where it belongs! Hip, Hip, Hooray!

Cxmoody, interesting in your earlier post you talk about going Gray Rock, and Lea just described how she set boundaries by leaving after her mother’s poor behaviour. You are so right though that despite using these very effective techniques, the hurt still runs deep inside, and is so damaging. We need others -friends, family, therapists - to support us to rebuild our self esteem and sense of worth otherwise we are diminished and destroyed by this kind of abuse.

Lea, I’m crying over what you said about your mother. What a horrible thing to say to you. I believe you when you say she knew exactly what she was saying!!! I’m so glad you turned around and LEFT!! You did the right thing. You don’t need her BS!!

I know the sting our mothers cause us. 2 days before my mother had her stroke she was FaceTiming with my oldest son and looked right at him in the phone and told him she loved him, but I don’t love your MOTHER, she said to him. He kept telling her to stop and she handed me the phone and I turned around and left.

I can’t ever imagine saying those things to my kids but I already told them in advance and that I love them and if I’m in my 90’s and say something like that to them I am apologizing now for it. I told them know it’s NOT true and that my brain must be broken and don’t believe a word I say if I tell them nasty things.

I am 99 percent sure I wouldn’t say anything nasty like that in my 90’s but in the 1 percent chance I do, I apologize in advance and know it’s not true!!!

Chriscat, what a shitty thing for your stepmother to do. I’m glad you threw it out. My mother told me about a month before she died that she was changing her will and having my son executor and only beneficiary of her will. It was a threat. I had told her at the time go ahead. She never did. Just one more empty threat.

I don’t know why these women act so shitty except their brain is broken. My grandmother NEVER acted like my mom, EVER!! She lived to be 91 and had her mind. She had also suffered a stroke but lived for 7 years after having it and was placed in a facility.

Hugs to you chriscat!!

Chriscat, a lot of us could write a book about our mothers or step mothers. Each of us put in our input and it would feel like we are talking about the SAME mother!!!

We had a birthday party for my mother’s 89th birthday with all her relatives. It was a surprise and she had fun. Well, her 90th we didn’t have a big blowout party for her and she was pissed at all of us. I didn’t ask my brother about a get together because when I met up with my mother at the grocery store, she said she didn’t want her granddaughter there (my brothers daughter) because she was transgender and just got married and she wasn’t READY to see them together!!!My mother refused to go to their wedding 2 weeks before my moms birthday.

Anyway, we didn’t plan a big 90 birthday party. But my younger son and I took her to a restaurant. That wasn’t good enough. All she did was complain that the rest of the family wasn’t there!!!

So after that she stopped sending all of us birthday cards. No more acknowledgments. My last birthday she didn’t even call to say happy birthday. But yet my youngest son and I continued to take her out for her birthday. Why??? I don’t know. I don’t have a good answer. Writing this all out to you I feel like a fool continuing to take her out !!!

Lea & Chris ,

My heart goes out to you both!!
(((((HUGE HUGS)))))

With or without narcissism, these women have their heads so far up their A$$ , that they can't see the forest for the S#!+!!

cx & Elaine,

You're right!! As hard as it is to stick to the boundaries we've set, the pain and anguish linger long after the nasty exchanges are over!!

So glad we have each other to lean on!!🤩

Elaine, you and I know there’s no point in trying to work out why these people say and do these hateful things, yet we still waste our energies on trying to make sense of it all. The problem is that if you’re not careful, a tiny part of you can start believing that what they say about you might be true. My grandmother too was a lovely person, so different to my mother. As for my stepmother, who knows? I think she just hated me existing and being a part of my dad’s life, and she’s now trying to erase me (or should I say “cancel” me these days?) by her exaggerated focus on my son. Toxic behaviour all round really.

Elaine, one word to describe why you took your mother out to lunch: appeasement.

Chriscat, BINGO!!! EXACTLY!!!! Appeasement. Thank you. That’s the word I was looking for. None of it matters anymore, she passed away.

But do you see what I mean about it being etched into my brain? She’s since passed, and I still think of these things.

She never went to see her own mother or brothers when they were dying. Why? Why didn’t she go see them? But yet, she EXPECTED me to be with her. She wanted me to be around her forever. She wanted me around as her punching bag is all. Figuratively speaking, not literally.

Hello lealonnie, Sending you a big hug. I am so sorry your mother said those cruel words to you. I agree she knew exactly what she was saying and she should apologize to you. Wow you amaze me with the great care and support you give her. She should appreciate it. I do not know how she could say those awful things to you. I hope you take a little time off from seeing your mother. Let her think about it for awhile. She is fortunate to have you in her life.

Thanks girls. I needed the hug earlybird.....I do not intend to see the woman at ALL for a while. Elaine, I know you know EXACTLY what this nonsense feels like, and it does NOT feel good. For some reason, these women LOVE to stick the knife into us as if we don't bleed!

I went over to see my grandson earlier and while I was there, NM started blowing up my phone! She left a snarky message (I didn't answer) saying "I have to talk to you for awhile, I will call you later, goodbye." She's still in a rancid mood, I could hear it in her voice, she has no intent to apologize; she has a RIGHT (in her mind) to treat me like crap. Like DH said, she didn't eviscerate me ENOUGH apparently at the window visit, there's more she has to say. TFB is what I have to say, I will NOT be taking any calls from her for the next couple of days. She's called back a couple of times already, and I am not answering. She can go straight to hell. She thinks she's ENTITLED to speak to me and to have all of her calls get answered, well she's wrong. If I'm not her daughter, then I don't have to treat her like a mother.

Chris, that's a rotten thing your step-monster did with the cards, and no, you cannot make this stuff up. These 'women' have a whole new way of inflicting pain that us normal people can't even begin to think up! DIS-GUST-ING.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm sick to DEATH of APPEASING my NM now. Doing things for HER sake that do not take MY feelings into account at ALL. Like going over there when I don't want to. Like taking calls when I don't want to. Like running all over the damn city to buy her things and return things when I don't feel like it. STILL I do it and STILL get treated like a 2nd class citizen! Well 'mother', talk to your beloved CAREGIVERS for the next few days and see how you like it! Tell them your problems and your gripes and endless complaints and give them your list of needs and wants and see if THEY will bend over backwards to APPEASE you b/c I WILL NOT.

Lea,

You have a right to feel exactly as you do. Your mom doesn’t have a right to feel as she does.

Chris,

So sorry that your stepmom was so thoughtless.

Revenge is a nasty thing, isn’t it?

Unfortunately, some moms and stepmoms have revenge in their hearts.

I wonder if your stepmom has vengeance in her heart. You don’t deserve that kind of passive aggressive behavior from her.

My husband’s grandmother was like that with my sweet mother in law.

She had one child, my MIL, her daughter who did everything in the world for her but if she didn’t please her, (believe me, she was a hateful, spiteful woman who couldn’t ever be pleased) she would plan some sort of payback strategy to make her daughter miserable.

My mother in law also had a miserable step mother who treated her like crap.

Why is it that people who don’t deserve to be treated so harshly are treated horribly?

We know why they mistreat others, or at least my mother in law told me why.

She said that her mom was ALWAYS a miserable person who never appreciated anything that anyone had ever done for her.

This woman returned every single gift that her sweet husband gave to her. He got smart and told her to go buy her own gift!

My husband’s grandfather died a broken man.

Too bad he didn’t divorce her. He could have had a few years of happiness, right?

Very sad that so many people are so spiteful and mean.

Good for you lealonnie!!! I’m so proud of you!!! Take as much time as you need away from your mother. You don’t need this. You don’t need to be treated this way. I am so sorry!!! Big hugs to you!!!

I know what you mean by you can “hear it in her voice “ that she is still going to be nasty and snark. I could always tell with my mother also.

I could also see it in her “eyes” when she was manic and nasty and snarky. Her soft brown eyes would turn black and demon like. I could see it in some of her pictures back in the late 1970’s where her eyes were dark and black and demon like. I threw a couple of those pictures out. One of them I had to keep because it was a 4 generation picture. My grandmother, my mother, my brother, and my 3 month old niece. My mother’s eyes were black and icy cold. Everyone else in the picture was smiling and happy except my mom.

None of this is your fault Lealonnie. Not one ounce is your fault. You have been the best daughter to your mother. You are so caring and compassionate. Focus on your new grandson. He sounds so sweet. Give him big hugs and kisses and let all the negative thoughts wash away from you. You don’t deserve any of that from your mother. All of her nastiness you don’t deserve ANY of that. Write it out 100 times so it sinks in to your soul and your whole being. Write it until you believe it. I’m going to write out the same thing right now!!!

Thanks Elaine, you're right. NM is the Queen of making herself perfectly clear thru voice inflection. 100%. Facial expressions too. And choice of words.....shes always uses THE ugliest, nastiest words to convey herself. Like calling her favorite nurse The Great Big Fat One and holding her arms out around herself like (parentheses) to exxagerate the nurses size. Meanwhile NM weighs 200 lbs! She never went to her own MOTHER'S funeral! Or her MILs or any of her sisters! Always had some lame excuse about "respecting them while they were alive" so there was no need to pay respects at their funeral!!! She did go to her brother in laws funeral (dad dragged her) in 2012 and all she had to say was that her sister didn't cry! Nevermind her sister had ADVANCED ALZHEIMER'S at the time, though, right? And the dark eyes....yep. The Look......I have lots of old photos where NM had The Look on....part fierce anger and part Long Suffering Poor Poor Me, kwim? Ugh. Makes me want a shower to recall those photos and how she made everyone FEEL during those incidents she was wearing The Look. All the same.

Anyway I'm quite sure we could all come up with a TON of similarities between these NMs, couldn't we?

Lealonnie, yes, I can relate to everything you are saying. When my mother stopped driving in 2016 I use to take my mother out a lot and also would sit with her in the kitchen. She gave me one of those old fashioned folding chairs that was green and had the classic WEBBING for the seat. Remember those from the 1960’s? Well she had one and I use to sit on it in the kitchen.

About a year ago she told me to bring over my own folding chair because she thought I was going to break hers since I had put on weight. Really???

When she said that to me I was. 5’9” and weighed 147 pounds. I told her I’m not in my 20’s anymore where I was 130!! She was always obsessed with weight!!

Well I was fine with my weight and never thought about losing any weight. But AFTER she passed away my husband said he wanted to go on a diet and I told him I would go on a diet with him.

So now I weigh 133 pounds. I lost 14 pounds and I weigh what I did in my 20’s and 30’s and I did it all for me. I didn’t need my mothers approval, I lost weight for me and I feel great about it. I never could have lost the weight when she was alive. It was way too stressful around her.

Elaine,

My mom was obsessed with weight too!

It breaks my heart that she is skin and bones now. Not that she has ever been big. None of us have been. Everyone has a certain metabolism.

What an awful thing for your mom to say about your weight, even if you had been super overweight she should not have commented on it in an ugly way. That wasn’t a comment out of concern for your health.

I am glad that you didn’t allow her to get to you. Most people’s weight fluctuates some.

The worst thing that my mom did about weight was making a comment to my youngest daughter, who wasn’t overweight and very active. Both of my kids were extremely active so they could enjoy treats now and then.

Well, my mom saw her eating a cupcake and told her not to get fat!

My daughter suffered with anorexia for awhile. Her pediatrician said that if she didn’t eat that she was going to put a feeding tube in her.

I actually smelled the vomit when I went to the bathroom. I got scared and asked her if she was making herself throw up. She lied and told me no. I knew that she was lying to me and took her to the pediatrician.

I marched into my mom’s room and told her not to mention anything more about getting fat to her ever again.

Young teens are so serious about how they look and I was angry at mom for saying that to her.

Good for you Elaine losing some weight for yourself only, not that you needed to!

I could write a book on the subject and everything NM has put me thru about weight. She had me in Weight Watchers at 9 years old, and then on every unhealthy diet known to man. We went on vacation once and she had me eating ONLY hamburgers 3x a day! I almost died from diet pills (pure amphetamines) from some quack doc I went to as a teen! I'd wait in line outside for 2 hrs and he'd weigh me, give me a box of 42x different colored diet pills to last 2 weeks, and I'd stay up all night doing crossword puzzles. I ate about a cup of cottage cheese a DAY! When I started passing out and having seizures, I sent the pills off to the police dept for analysis....they were offering free anonymous testing. They were pure amphetamines it turned out! This was the early 70s. The quack doc was put out of business after a few people died. My mother didn't care as long as Her Daughter Was Thin. And I wasn't even very heavy to begin with ffs. And that's a small sample of the b.s. thru my childhood. The things we do to earn love! My God, how pathetic.

What a rotten dig to you to tell you to bring your own lawn chair to sit on! Disgusting, but typical. I'm sorry you were made to suffer at the hands of a narcissistic and mean spirited person. Sad, all these stories.

Lea,

My gosh! That was insane and dangerous!

A child should not be on diet pills and they need a wide variety of nutritious foods.

Nhwm......my NM told my DD her whole life how fat she was and how she "didn't need" any desserts, but how her brother "could afford" to eat whatever he wanted. To this day my DD does not have much of a relationship with her grandmother. She was always made to feel like a fat second class citizen, and boy can I relate. NM and I have had quite a few words over her filthy treatment of my daughter,,,,,but naturally, SHE never did anything wrong.

I'm sorry your DD suffered with bulimia. That's a dangerous eating disorder to be burdened with.

Lea,

Thanks. I was scared. You know that we can smell vomit. Yep, she was forcing herself to throw up. Bulimia and anorexia are awful.

I had trouble eating when mom lived here. You know how it is. It’s easy to lose your appetite when we stressed out to the max but I wasn’t not eating on purpose.

Sometimes she wouldn’t even eat. It was awful. I took her to the pediatrician and a therapist.

I didn’t know what brought it on until my daughter told me what my mom had said to her. I was furious about it.

My kids had a great relationship with her. I was surprised that mom did that.

When I told mom how underweight she was and what the doctor said, she stopped making remarks to her.

Lealonnie and Needhelpwithmom, it’s awful what you both went through with your mom’s regarding weight also.

Lealonnie, you are lucky to be alive!! Your mom putting you on a diet at. 9 years old is ridiculous!!! Also a hamburger diet, that’s crazy!!

Im glad the quack doctor was put out of business but geese, it could have been you that died. Thank goodness you survived all of that!!!

Needhelpwithmom, so sorry about your daughter being anorexic and your mother telling her not to get fat. That’s horrible. I’m glad your daughter came through it ok. Teens are so impressionable. Her grandmother should have told her how beautiful she was at ANY weight!!

When I got married back in 1984 I weighed 135 pounds. My mother went shopping with me to find the perfect wedding gown. I found the perfect dress that was a little tight on me. The sales lady said that a few weeks before the wedding she could alter the dress so it wouldn’t be so tight on me. My mother told her you won’t have to do that, she’ll lose the weight before the wedding.

I lost 10 pounds so I was 125 pounds at 5’9”. I fit in the dress but I felt weak. Right after the wedding I put the 10 pounds back on and immediately felt better!!

Elaine,

Exactly, you know what your set weight should be.

My kids were fit. They both did gymnastics, dance, volleyball, etc.

That era, the Hollywood glamour era was so focused on weight.

Mom did tell my girls that they were beautiful and I suppose that she thought she would prevent her from eating too many cupcakes but my gosh, let the kid enjoy her cupcake!

I didn’t make them all of the time. They enjoyed when I made brownies and cupcakes. It’s a treat!

Christcat, your reply earlier got me thinking on regret & blame. I think they are quite separate. I regret making cocktails with both tequila & whiskey back in the 90's & certainly regret the results 🤮 but I don't blame anyone else for my dumb actions.

Regret: sad & repentance.
Blame: assign responsibility to something or someone else.

The older I get, the more I see blaming others as a little kid thing. When a 3yr old knocks over their milk & declares "Dolly did it!"

Hey I'm not perfect... I bingled my car & blamed the wet slippery road. But it was really me not leaving enough space, maybe going too fast, not paying attention.

My DH was once parked in a street, eating lunch. A woman reversed straight into his car. She said "it was his fault because he was there". He said his car was stationary... but she said "she was driving so he needed to get out of the way, he didn't so it was his fault" 😂

Is that the attitude you mean? It's always someone's else's fault?

Beatty, thanks for your take on this. I see plenty of blame from my mother and stepmother. Not sure I see regret though, as neither have ever apologised for anything in their lives. Perhaps they are sad with some regret but this will also manifest itself in blaming others, even for the choices they’ve made in the past, and crucially they will not learn from this to try and do things differently next time. How could they when they are always right? My stepmother would say to me “ don’t you make me say something I’m going to regret” after asking me how I was feeling after my father died. My mother will say ‘it’s your fault I have no friends “ when feeling sorry for herself. Your example about the woman who hit your DH’s car is a good one. It’s all about entitlement and blaming others. It made me smile though, as I remember once a woman ran into the back of my car while I was waiting to turn at a junction, so the fault was entirely hers. She got out and asked if I’d be prepared to take the blame as she’d only just had her car repaired from a previous accident! She got quite cross with me when I said no!

The NMs just love to play *Persecuter* it's all your fault & I'm right, I know I am! Or *Victim* oh poor me!

Check out the Karpman Drama Triangle if you don't know it. I was amazed when I saw this.

Beatty, I had not seen this triangle before. It makes sense though. I expect some of this behaviour is at a subconscious level, or maybe I’m being charitable. Either way, it does not excuse it, given the terrible effect it can have on others.

I've been away for a few days, to be honest I am barely functioning, and catching up here is just so...... my heart breaks for all of us that got stuck with these vile narcissistic "mothers". Lea, please take a LONG, long break from your toxic mother. Unbelievable what she said when you offered her the picture gift of her g-grandchild. It's shocking really. Don't even let her get your VM, block her calls! Maybe one of the staff at the MC should tell her "Stop calling your daughter, she doesn't want to speak to you after your horrible behavior". Can you make that request? That would shock your NM. Why are these women allowed to get away with their vile behavior??

Chris- I'm sorry about your stepmother- is she mentally ill?? She obviously wanted you to see the executor info about your son. Does he know? Can he tell her to F-off?? I also related to how just that short drive with your mother was enough to give you a big dose of her negativity and narcissism. The sad part is 15 minutes with them is enough to ruin hours and even days. It's insidious how they do so much damage to our very lives.

I've had a chance to learn/absorb more information on my brother's cancer, and it is very bad. I think I am still in shock. I'll be blunt, his journey is not going to be long, but it is going to be painful. In my mind it takes me back to my dad's cancer, he was also early 50's. I start to think about my brother dying and I just lose it. I can not stop this from happening. He might have a year. I just don't know what to do.

My DH will have his surgery on Friday. Thursday he will go in to get injected with dye so they can find the sentinel node. I was already worried about this, but my brother's situation has me terrified that my DH could have really bad cancer too, and even the thought of losing him I get paralyzed. He doesn't seem too nervous, that is his Aspie way. I'm the wreck, and I SO desperately need to hear the words "we got it all".

I've managed to keep some distance from my NM. I had to call her yesterday, and mentioned during the call that I was very stressed out- her response. "It's not about you, it's about them." I said "yeah, well I'm not stressing them out I'm just also feeling stressed myself" and she said absolutely nothing- I didn't know what else to say, hung up and couldn't stop my tears. I KNOW they are the ones with cancer FFS!

My mom has not been told of the seriousness of my brother, yet. That was his choice. But, last night she was texting me trying to initiate a get together and I said no. No big explanation, just "No, not up for it". Then she texted she might go to PA to see my brother. I have a feeling she is catching on that this might be serious, and I really don't know how to handle her right now.

I know one thing, if there is cancer in my DH's lymph nodes, my caretaking days for my mother will INSTANTLY be OVER and I will move with DH back to his home state where all his family still live.

My mind goes from racing so fast to hitting a wall.

Hey Lea, I will be praying for your DH this Wednesday, I'm glad you will be getting that over with, ONE and DONE! Let us know how it goes.

Piper, there is just so much for you to deal with at the moment. It is overwhelming you. There's no point in suggesting you try not to overthink things because of course you will, it's only natural. Can the various health professionals dealing with your DH and brother help you at all? Maybe they could tell you about some online support groups and resources for families going through similar situations? It seems to me you need some coping strategies to get through the coming months. Also, do you have friends or other family members who can support you at this time, whilst you are dealing with it all? To preserve your own health, you really only need to focus on what's necessary and important, and leave the rest to take care of itself or to be dealt with much later. No, stepmother is not mentally ill, she just has poor judgement and has no respect for me, or anyone really. Sending hugs and support to you.