Caregiving for a narcissistic mother. Do we do it out of love or out of years of guilt and programming?

Lea, I am happy beyond words for you both!!!!

Piper said: "At some point she brought up my dad's name. We're just having regular conversation (for her) and I said "I still miss him" and she says to me- this is word for word and she said it with a tone of anger. "YOU? Tell me about it! At least you have a husband!".... I had no response."

Mine seems very jealous of my relationship with DH. Of course there's no way to tell Nmom, who was twice divorced, that I've been able to maintain a happy relationship for 20+ years because I don't have a crippling personality disorder that makes me put myself first.

Sometimes I wonder if I *do* have a personality disorder and just don't realize since my brother and mother both have them. Hopefully therapist I plan to hire SOON can provide input.

Honestly I can't believe how much better I feel since I don't have to listen to negativity all day long now - I hadn't realized how bad it had gotten. According to mother if I plan to drive somewhere, I'll surely have an accident and be injured. If I have a medical appointment it's cancer for sure. I can't go anywhere right now because covid, but used to be if I had anything fun planned according to mother I'd be attacked and robbed on the way back to the car. If I buy a little something fun for myself I'm a profligate spender who'll starve in retirement (a little projection on that last one I'm sure.) Oh, and I'm a bit overweight so I'm going to die of diabetes any minute.

Honestly it is exhausting. I just cannot with someone who's putting fear and negativity in the drivers seat at all times. I don't know how this low contact thing will play out but whatever happens Nmom is getting lots less detail about my life going forward.

Piper, so sorry you're dealing with two potential cancer diagnoses. You should absolutely put your DH first. Sounds like it's more than time for your sister to step up.

Also my inlaws are like what Daughterof1930 describes. It's a narcissistic family dynamic with my DH as the invisible child. It used to upset me but now it's just like, this is the way it's going to be.... they're the ones missing out on awesome DH and myself because they only care about their golden child and her kids. (We don't have kids, by choice which makes us nonentities in their eyes, I guess... but if we did have kids there's no doubt in my mind they'd be ignored in favor of golden's.) Whatever, it literally isn't even worth thinking about, but I do wish I had some sane people around since my FOO is so screwed up. I'm having "moving away" fantasies again, which is probably a nonstarter b/c of DH's job. Guess I better find some ways to stay occupied until he can retire and we can get out of here.

Lea,

AWESOME NEWS!!!!

God bless you both!!

I went to pick DH up from the hospital this morning & he's fine. A band aid covers the spot on his abdomen where the needle punctures were made, and that's it. He's had virtually no pain from the surgery, and he's sitting on the sofa now with the dog laying on his lap! The biopsy results will be in next week; but it's to find out why (maybe) he has non-alcoholic cirrhosis of the liver; the malignant tumor has been obliterated. CT scan end of next month, colonoscopy late May, and that's all for the next few months. PHEW. Thank you ALL for the kind words & well wishes; they are very much appreciated.

EP: When your NM made that comment about missing your dad? Mine NEVER mentions my father at ALL, and if she does, it's to speak ill of him or to remind me of what he didn't give her! Married 68 years and the only memory she has of him is what he didn't give her or do for her! No photo of him in her room even. She made me take away the folded American flag that was presented at his military funeral too! THAT is how mean spirited she is. Your NM has to 'one up' you on how bad SHE has it vs. you, huh? I so get it. They're all the same, aren't they?

I LOVE that your NM is being whisked away on Friday with no return date in mind! YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. Excellent freaking news. I hope she stays away for a few months! I'm sorry she's worried about her son, but that's a mother's job..........she can't be spared that worry and it's good she's going out there for a visit. Maybe it will take her out of her OWN head space for a while and give her a new thing to focus on. I don't know.........sometimes bad news changes a person's perspective on LIFE in general. I so pray that HE gets some good news here and that God grants him that favor. Same goes for your DH on April 8th. How are YOU holding up? Managing to get some R&R in for yourself in the midst of all this worry?

Hellebore, the only thing better than low contact is no contact. Stick with it, all that negativity is soul crushing! My NM is quite the same way; filled with negativity and 'the sky is falling' predictions left & right! Meanwhile, NOTHING bad has EVER happened to her in her entire 94 years of life!!! No rape, robbery, hold up, cancer, loss of job, loss of home, bankruptcy, car accident, NOTHING. Yet she predicts gloom & doom 24/7! I hate that!

So NM called last night while I was walking the dog.........out of the blue at around 9 pm. Ranting & raving about gibberish, making no sense, talking about 'waiting for the people upstairs' and not knowing when they were coming, but wanting to go to bed. I told her to go right to bed, that it was late and she was mistaken that people were coming over to see her. Then she started yelling that she 'wants to pack her bags & run FAR FAR AWAY' which is something I've heard for decades now; something she loves to say. I told her goodnight, sleep tight, and goodbye. She made no mention of not speaking to me/hearing from me in days, etc. I made no mention of anything either. Her PA called today about physical therapy for her constant falls. I asked her how mom was doing? She said FINE, joking around and in good spirits. I told HER that every single time I or my DD interacts with her that she is OFF THE CHARTS demented and in another world. She seemed surprised. So IDK if she's showtiming it up with the PA, or with me, or wtf is going on, and I don't really care. I just need to keep my contact with her STRICTLY limited and the interactions as short as humanly possible. Trying to figure these NMs out is literally IMPOSSIBLE, so why try?

Lea, so happy for you and your DH!!! That is fantastic news!! So happy for you both!!!

Lea,

Such great news for both of you! Especially about your Dad having no pain!

Sooo interesting about your Mom’s behavior with others, vs behavior with you. Sometimes I can’t even believe what my mother stores up for me, vs the staff at her place. What. The. Heck??

Sleep well, everyone!

That’s good news Lea, always a relief to get back to home comforts after a spell in hospital. I’m sure the dog is providing excellent therapy too! Funny how your mother’s high drama starts up when you are focused on your DH’s situation right now. Attention seeking I guess. No point in overthinking it though as you will never be able to understand it.

EP,

To this day my NM bad mouths my Dad! They were divorced in 1976 and he passed away 3 years ago!
She's like a dog with a bone and no matter how many times I ask her not to go down that road, she persists!
Now I am very careful not to bring up any subject that will lead her to the subject of my Dad, but where there's a will, there's a way! Lol.

Hellebore,

Glad to see you back!!

After a huge blow out, I went NC with NM. 3 weeks of bliss!!
Then she called me and told me that I had made her "suffer " long enough!
I explained that I thought it would be better for both of us if we didn't talk everyday. That way we would have things to talk about and avoid disagreements.
She has spurts where she calls me days in a row!
I promised myself that once every 2 days was more than enough, so when she calls me, the two days starts all over again
It seems to be sinking in with her!

Like eating an elephant! One bite at a time!!

(((Hugs)))

Thanks xray. I'll try to remember to check in here even when things are going well because I do care about our little group. I know you and I are dealing with some of the same things as well.

I'm just not sure what to do about my mom. I'm not quite sure I'm ready for no contact - thanks lea, I may get there, because I don't think I can say anything at all about where I'm coming from - more depressed than I have ever been in my life in January/February, which is saying something considering my dad's illness/death, and some career setbacks. I don't think I realized how bad it was till it started to lift some. Definitely a "get thru 30 minutes at a time" period. I'm not out of the woods yet but like I said, some better. Just wish the terrifying dreams would go away (usually I'm lost somewhere or being chased by someone.)

She's just not going to hear it. Everything is about her bottomless pit of neediness at this point and she won't listen to anything about her negativity - defensiveness is the name of the game. So maybe once a week for me if that until I see that she's started to call some other people and work on her own problems without thinking she's going to try to call and dump everything on me every couple of days.

I have a right to maintain my marriage and my sanity, and put my SELF first for once. Honestly I was really getting at the danger zone when I went extremely LC, I should have called a therapist then and hocked something to pay for it but I just didn't have the energy - finding a good fit can be hard, especially if they don't understand my ADHD or the personality disorders that run in my family (my last therapist left town.)

Jodi, typical that your mother would say you had “made her suffer”. There always has to be blame, and it is always someone else’s fault.

Hellebore, you sound quite fragile at the moment, but taking the positives I would say you are quite self aware, and able to think about the kinds of boundaries that might be workable with your mother. Once a week contact is a good start, and is manageable.

Since my mother moved into supported living, I’ve spoken to her weekly on the phone, and might call round to drop a few things off, again once a week. I’m careful for this not to be the same time and day each week, or we shall soon be going down the “you didn’t call!...” route, which I am not prepared to get sucked into.

On the odd occasion she has phoned me (which is only when she wants something) I’m working really hard to count to ten before jumping in to sort out her latest imagined crisis. My first response is then to throw the ball back to her, giving her advice and solutions for her to manage the situation herself. The bottom line is that she can ask her House Manager for help, rather than me, so I can steer her that way too.

Remember, most, if not all, of this is about CONTROL.

My mom has never said a kind word to me, I just lost my father and she has never said a kind word to him it's heartbreaking. She has turned on most of her family and doesn't understand why she needs anyone. I lost my only brother years ago and she adored him, I crave family closeness, am single and OK with it I don't think she is, her constant negativity is exhausting. She is negative and unhappy and I don't think she can see anyone close to her happy it somehow grates on her. If it wasn't for me keeping up with cousins we would have no one, she has pushed them all away. I do what I can for her but it is exhausting emotionally, I have only so many reserves. I say to her you've never said a kind word to me she replies I've never seen any good with you, all I want is a little crumb. Once when pressed she said I like the cookies you bought me- I am 64 fairly accomplished take care of everything for her she would be lost without me . Why do I do it - I have no choice she only has me to take care of her is it guilt, programming or looking for the unconditional love that I have never had from a mother- are we programmed to keep looking for that love. I keep what distance I can but I am worn out and never feel free to say what I want in front of her as I never know what will be thrown at me always walking on eggshells. I suppose I have tried to make her happy my whole life which is an impossible task she won't allow it for some reason I guess she doesn't feel she deserves it. The loss of my dad is huge he wasn't so forthcoming with the praise either but I always felt his love was unconditional, never berating me always upbeat and positive and am thankful that at least I had that from one parent.

Cascia, your story sounds sadly familiar. Yes, you are probably still seeking that unconditional love and approval from your mother, but it sounds like she is unable to give it. This is not because you are unworthy of love though. It is her deficiency, not yours. I hope you have some friends or other family members who are supportive of you and kind to you, to offset your mother’s negativity, and to give you a more positive balance in life. If you are able to detach from her emotionally whilst helping her, this would be better for your health. It is not easy to do, but might allow you to do what you need to do for her without making you so unhappy. Hope this helps.

I have some good news about my brother. His PET scan did not show evidence of bone mets. That was a huge relief and it's looking like this maybe at least localized to the pelvic area. Surgery is still a given but this is not the dire timetable it was looking like before. He will be having an MRI on April 8 same day as my DH's surgery.

So my sister tells me my mom is backing out on going to PA now. She almost backed out of going to Texas but my sister convinced her to come. I still don't know her return date. My sister has flight privileges so she doesn't need to plan in advance (or pay).

My sister knows FULL WELL I do NOT want my NM here next week and certainly not Thursday! I left it up in the air, and now I just have to see how it plays out.

WHY does my mom have to stick to me like a barnacle?? I'm furious she won't give me this space! Visit your other kids for a change! How about a friend for a couple days?? Yesterday she was over here eating and told me she was "Going to Texas and coming RIGHT back".... I did not respond but I could feel my blood pressure going up!

I'm thinking of straight up asking my mom to stay away until DH has his surgery. She'll act all offended and ask why, but I think I'm going to start telling her I need a break from her. I've never said anything like that to her even though I have felt it countless times. Has anyone else ever said "I need a break from you! A long one!".... if so what kind of response did you get?

My sister understands why I don't want her here next week. How hard she tries to keep my mom in Texas (or PA?) remains to be seen. The thing is, my sister could do it. It's going to be about my mom and how much my sister is willing to push back. I'm thinking of waiting until my mom is in Texas and then tell her on the phone I don't want her coming back until after surgery. Otherwise she might not leave at all just out of spite.

Chriscat83 Thank you, I have many kind and supportive friends and family - but of course can't help wanting to make my mom happy even though she can't be - a cousin said it will be easier to deal with the loss of my father which is huge for me than to deal with my mother afterwards which I already knew to be true. It's not that she's all so horrible but the constant control is exhausting and her need to have everyone in her misery- I know she can't help it yet it has colored my life in not a good way for so many years. Mothers are supposed to want see their children happy and she just can't or if she does I somehow feel like she needs to take it away or ruin it. She only had my dad and me and has always operated like this which is mindboggling really.

EP, great news about your brother. Thoughts and prayers for your brother and DH.

Welcome Cascia. Remember this. Your mother CAN HELP IT, she chooses not to. She chooses to treat you badly, and you choose to treat her well. When my NM gets ugly with me, I call her on it, point out her foul behavior, and either leave her presence or end the call. You are not a foot mat, don't BE one! Sending you a hug.

EP: AWESOME NEWS about your brother! God is good! Say nothing to NM till she's in Texas then ask her to stay. Otherwise, she may play dirty, like you said. Don't trust her as far as you can throw her.

NM called here last night in a FOUL mood saying she's trying to get a hold of "the family" to come get her, but nobody wants her. Her siblings are all deceased. The family consists of me, my daughter 28 and my son 36 who just had a baby. I explained to her, again, that none of us are capable of caring for her in home with so many issues which I listed. She was furious and hung up. DH and I are going over on Sun for a visit and will explain things again, and also that we are not going to tolerate this foul behavior from her anymore. Enough is enough. I can move her into the SNF in June since she's so miserable in MC but that's all I can do, I'm not a magician. Ten years of this and I'm tired.

EP, what GREAT news about your brother!!

Cascia- it might help you understand your mother if you do some reading about narcissistic/emotionally abusive mothers (try online articles; as expected, some are good, some not very helpful. Keep reading though, and you may find answers to your mother's behavior/personality. Expect a long journey, and some serious grief. But if you don't start somewhere...) Unfortunately, narcissitic/negative mothers train their children from birth to keep dancing around them like trained bears, always trying to please them, which never happens. I think it is because if the mother is never pleased, we keep doing it. If she is pleased, she fears the pleasing will stop. Another way to look at it, is that we are rewarding their bad behaviors. No good comes of that. They never change; only you can start to change your own responses. I hurt so badly for you that you are still seeking her love, any small bit of it. Maybe start by trying to accept its just not going to happen, and quit seeking love from her, and giving yourself the love and compassion you need and deserve? (I see my sister always trying to gain one little crumb of affection or approval from our NM, and all mother does is just dish out worse and worse abuse upon her. On the other hand, I have purposefully maintained no contact, low contact, as needed, to keep mother on her own 'eggshells'. Doesn't always work, but did keep her mouth in check somewhat. Unfortunately, now that she is in hospice, she thinks she has a free (entitled) pass to unleash her ingrained hatefulness to its' fullest extent. I am now no contact, and will probably need to remain so until she is finally unable to talk at all. So very sad, and so unnecessary, but I refuse to 'keep touching the stove knowing I am going to get burned'.) (Query: what does it say about our own emotional stability if we keep stepping up to the plate just to get hit with abuse? I ask myself that everytime the F.O.G. drives me to consider an obligatory, dreaded visit.)

Lea-My mother tried the same tricks to leave hospital/hospice facility (mind you, she is completely bedridden, totally incontinent, can do nothing for herself; I think the only thing left working on her body is her mouth and its' abusive vocabulary. BTW- it is not dementia; she has always been verbally abusive), but still thinks we should take her home and provide ourselves for care. And I applaud you for standing up to her. I wish I could that with mine, but I don't even have the tolerance left for even one word of her vitriol.

Piper: I believe your mother sticks to you like a barnacle because she knows her other children won't be so accommodating of her behaviors. Perhaps she is afraid if she leaves you alone for even a bit, you will realize how much better your life is without her constant pressure, and seek more normal time for yourself (without her). I personally don't think telling your mother you need time away from her will work; this is exactly what she fears and she will never leave your side! Just try and get that time any way you can, and feel the heal! Those good feelings (even if brief) will help you become stronger, and help you create more distance (psychologically and physically) for yourself.

Thanks all, for sharing your experiences here.

Thanks you guys on my brother. His situation was a real wake up call with the estrangement I was feeling towards my siblings so I’m also relieved that has ended. I think we all feel relieved on that front. Nothing like a threat of death to put things in perspective.

I talked to my sister and we’re on the same page as far as my mom staying until after my DH’s surgery. I fully expect my mom to kick up a fuss but too bad. Funny thing is, she will have a much better time being at my sisters because my sister isn’t burned out and will take her out shopping, out to eat, hang with her at their pool, boat, etc I don’t understand her reluctance? I guarantee it’s not because she wants to stay here out of worry for me or DH, so who knows. I’m just glad she’ll be leaving in a few hours.

Lea, are you sure you want to do the visit this weekend? I don’t think I could after her cruel behavior. She has professionals 24/7 so if you don’t feel up to it don’t go.

Stilldealing, thank you for your very insightful post. It seems to me you have a good grasp on the NM issues. I’m still learning, not about her because I always knew she was toxic but about my own inability to cope with it. You are very right that it is a long journey filled with grief.

One thing I’ve come to terms with is I’m not doing this much longer, especially if my mom refuses outside help. I realize I don’t have to wait for her to be declared incompetent, I can just say I am done. It becomes more real in my mind every day.

I know your mom is on hospice and I hope you find peace soon. It’s sad that many of us feel like we will not be truly free until they are gone. It’s a complicated emotional place to be, and I hope you are doing okay.

Cascia ,

Welcome to our group!!

You'll get lots of support and insight here!! No judgement!!

If you haven't already, start researching everything you can about narcissism. YouTube is a wonderful resource!!
I also recommend reading "Will I ever be good enough " by Karyl McBride. It specifically deals with being the daughter of a narcissistic mother.

You're among friends!!

(((Hugs)))

Thought I would share a funny story today!

Yesterday I woke up with a UTI.

I hadn't called NM in 3 days, so she called me.
She asked me what was wrong with me because I sounded down.
I told her I wasn't feeling well due to the UTI.

Low and behold, she called me this morning to tell me she woke up with a UTI! UGH!!!

You just gotta laugh!!🤣

Jodi, LOL.....

Really, if you are not in the thick of it, suffering in some crisis or burn out, the things they do are so outrageous, that it IS funny. There should be a dark comedy series about these narc mothers.

Or better yet, a roast 🤣

EP,

I love it!!

You can't write this stuff!! Lol

Although I will tell you that as I watch certain movies, I recognize the narcissistic mannerisms.
Mommy Dearest, Postcards from the Edge, Mildred Pierce (super old movie. A classic).

A good friend of mine told me to watch "A tribute to Jessica Walter " on YouTube. It gave me a huge chuckle!!

Hang in there Sister!!

EP, in reality, I'm never 'up to' going to see NM. Sunday is Easter, however, and I'm bringing her a chocolate bunny (gag me with a spoon). Plus, I feel like it's important DH & I have this 'chat' with her and lay our cards out on the table. The very INSTANT she starts carrying on with ugliness, we are OUT OF THERE. And I will again let her calls go directly to voice mail; she has to hear what WE have to say for a change, and that's the reason behind the visit. It's probably a mistake, but that's the plan for now anyway. If I get several more crapola phone calls from her today & tomorrow, I can always cancel the appointment on Sunday.

Your inability to cope with your NMs toxicity is similar to mine at this point in time. It's like divorce, I think. You wake up one day and say NOT ONE MORE MINUTE OF THIS B.S. AM I GOING TO TOLERATE, and that's when you KNOW it's time for a change. And while we can't exactly 'divorce' the NM, we sure CAN make some changes that are in our OWN best interest for once!

I think your NM sticks to you like a barnacle b/c you are a known quantity and she's scared of change, ANY kind of change. Having dementia makes everything 'off', I think, and so the unknown is big & scary. Just my 2 cents & it could be way off base, who knows with this mentally ill minds? And who cares, too.......just get RID of the woman for a while so you can think straight & focus on yourself and your DH which is all that matters right now!!! Glad to know your sister is on board to help.

Jodi...........a UTI for your NM too, huh? How utterly absurd these women truly are! As if it's a good thing that now she has one too, and next, it will be SO MUCH worse than yours!

stilldealing, very astute observations about NMs in general. Love how you say the only thing working on yours nowadays is her MOUTH. OMG ain't THAT the TRUTH?! Mine is apparently working on sharpening up her remaining teeth, fingernails & forked tongue as I type. She's always been mean as a snake and dementia has only demolished the MASK she was able to wear to conceal some of that mean. Nowadays she doesn't even bother trying to hide it. And acting 'as if' the family OWES it to her to take her in, quit our jobs and devote every waking moment to figuring out how to pick her up from the floor when she falls, cleaning her up, changing dirty Depends in bed, getting her in and out of the shower and washing her when she's in there & preventing a fall while doing so, finagling the wheelchair around a non-handicapped compliant home, and on and ON. Her mother was the same; she lived in a SNF locally many years ago & when the family would go by to take her out, she'd throw herself on the pavement and refuse to go back in at the end of the outing! They'd have to physically lift her up & carry her back inside to her room. Nice, huh? My other aunt with AD crucified my cousin daily about 'taking her home to live with her' until she became catatonic at the end, which was a blessing. My cousin still hasn't recovered and the NM died in 2013. This is the family my NM comes from. She had ONE sister who was content & happy in a SNF and never complained about anything. She died at 94. The one with AD died at 95, and her mother at 91.

Xray, LOL 😭
Bet hers was WAY worse too..

Have you seen Osage County, with Julia Roberts? I caught it on TV last year. It was just too scary real.

Happy Easter to all of you.

There are moments of joy during the holidays but as we all know, they can be very stressful too.

I was the one that hosted all of the holiday dinners.

One day it hit me that I didn’t have to go through all of that rigmarole any more and I stopped. Life became more peaceful during the holidays.

In the past I did enough holiday cooking to last 10 lifetimes!

Piper, great news about your brother, but sorry to read your mother continues to act up. Lows and highs eh?!

Lea, I understand the need for you and DH to communicate some home truths this weekend to your mother. Hand the chocolate bunny over without ceremony though, or she will throw it back in your face like the grandson’s photograph.

Jodi, I completely identify with your mother mirroring every ailment you’re suffering with. I’ve had some of that with my own mother. I wonder if it’s yet another way of diminishing our needs, given that NMs are only interested in their own needs being met at all times. If they accept we are ill, there is a danger we might not be available to provide full service, and that is unacceptable in their eyes.

Stilldealing, great insight. Keep posting as your experiences are hugely helpful in making sense of some of the common situations we all find ourselves in.

NeedHelp, I too am looking forward to a peaceful Easter without the need to provide an elaborate feast. Today was very cold but with bright Spring light. The birds have started to nest, the blackbirds are singing and the early blossom is out. These things are priceless, and at the same time, free.

Happy Easter to all.

Jodi and Lea,

Geeeez, since when do people compete to have a UTI?

My word, Jodi...

As if having a UTI is a contest!

Chris.

I am all about the chocolate bunny! 😊

That’s the first thing I would go after as a kid on Easter!