Today I had my first appointment with an actual therapist (not a counselor).
Even though one hour wasn't long enough to spew out everything I need to talk about, this woman completely picked up on 2 truly major points.
1) Even ONE of the stressors I have been dealing with over the last year is more than enough to warrant therapy!
2) I have been the "caregiver " for everyone in my family since I was 12 years old!
She asked me what I do for myself?
I had absolutely no answer!!
Hence therapy!! Lol
Caring for a narcissistic LO is a labor of love!
Not because they will love us back, but because we need to love ourselves!!
How do you keep caring selflessly for your selfish LO?
What do you do for yourself?
(((Hugs)))
I think it's a great idea to go do some things after dropping your son off. Definitely take some time. Lots of it. When you make that call to NM, keep it short and neutral sounding. That seems to be a good way to keep their drama down.
Then forget about her. She has others to look after her. Just focus on you and DH. Sending you love and hugs.
We already know DH had a cancerous tumor in his liver that was successfully ablated; CT scans every 3 months will be checking for more; if more pop up, more ablations will happen as needed. The biopsy of his liver was to see what condition his liver is in overall (with the cirrhosis present) and to see if they could find a reason for it, and to determine if a transplant could happen if/when the time comes. That consult is on the 28th b/c there's really nothing urgent about it.
Chris, my deepest condolences on the loss of your dear MIL. Glad her passing was peaceful, at least.
Jodi, it's rude that you're being made to stay in a hotel while others can stay at your step-kids' home, but on the other hand, it's a vacation! I HATE staying at other people's homes, I don't care WHO they are! I much prefer a nice hotel room myself. That said, when/if my step children come to visit, I will insist they stay in a hotel *and probably wind up paying for it myself* b/c they have too many kids and I don't have the room here for all of them. Plus they destroy my house when they do come & I won't put up with it anymore *the parents don't care how their kids act* I've watched them break my things while the mother stood by not really giving a hoot, and I don't roll like that. Disrespect is disrespect.
My NM is going downhill again methinks. She called here and left a message yesterday while I was at work. I called her back; no answer/voicemail off as usual. She called at 6 pm and let it ring once; I called her back immediately; no answer. I called back 4x and NO ANSWER all evening long. I did get her this morning and she was out of it, saying she was in bad pain *her legs/neuropathy* and didn't answer the phone last night b/c she 'was lying in bed' which makes no sense. So I'm not sure wth is going on over there and I may call the nurse to find out later today. We have a standing appt to visit on Sundays at 2 pm, so that's another chance to see what's happening. It's just become nearly impossible to get her on the phone these days & when I do, she's pretty out of it.
Anyway, we're off to do some shopping today so I'll check in later. I'm very glad for the good news here today, but sorry for the sad news on Chris's end.
Whatever is happening I hope you get some answers this morning. Do you think she actually heard your calls last night and just didn't want to answer for whatever reason? My mom will get into modes where she just doesn't answer her phone. In your case at least you have the peace of mind that if something was really wrong the MC would call you. Let us know what they say when you call to check on things.
Something is changing in me with my NM, and I can't quite explain what it is, really, but I feel some kind of significant shift. Maybe it's extreme compassion fatigue? I spent several hours with her yesterday - first I brought the food supplies over to my place and cooked over here so she came here to eat - it's just easier for me to cook in my own kitchen. When she came over she had her new laptop in tow so I knew she couldn't work the thing. So after dinner I went back with her and got the basics set up. She's yapping away while I'm doing it, and some of the stuff she said I knew to be flat out false, and I didn't correct, or even say much. I just didn't care. I care less and less about her complaints.
My son wants to plan a trip here with his dad & his dad's girlfriend of many years 25+, they are finally tying the knot and want a beach wedding. Last night when we were talking about it I got so excited to help them. They can stay with us to save money- actually all those details don't matter. The one that does matter is after we all hung up my excitement faded when I realized the black cloud AKA my NM will be around and will expect attention from us, and to somehow be a part of things. I'm just so sick of her sucking the joy out of my life. I want my OWN life back so bad.
I'm tired of all the mental work I have to do to maintain boundaries, dealing with triggers, dealing with her PERIOD. I've come to hate living in Florida, and want to move. We've been here close to ten years. In June it will be 4 years that we closed on her place. I think back to how much I loved it here those first 5 years. I felt content and happy. Contrast to now, I'm miserable, I think I've lost half my hair due to stress and have aged so much the last 4 years.
I'm not going to be able to wait until some judge deems her incompetent. This board has shown me this can drag out for many years and I can't do it.
I've been talking about the need for a hired companion on this board for awhile now. Yet I have not had the talk with her. I blamed covid, but in reality I'm also a coward and dread her rage and anger more than anything in this world. She has no idea how much hinges on her willingness to hire a companion. But whose fault is it that she doesn't know-- mine. Who needs to change it? Me.
I wonder how Hellebore's day went yesterday. Hope you're okay Hellebore!!
So she called me 3x yesterday, filled with aggravation and anger, to have a big pity party for herself saying she's the 'family stranger' and other assorted nonsense, back to her OLD former self before the 2nd Cymbalta fiasco. So yes EP, you are right: she goes 'downhill' then rallies, like a miracle, and so we go, up and down like yo-yo's, waiting for a REAL crisis to hit, which never seems to happen. Just more fabricated stories for MY sake. And yes, I think she spitefully doesn't answer the phone just to get me worried. Meaning, I will stop calling over there. If she wants to talk, she can call ME and I can choose to answer or let it go to voice mail. I have a ton of compassion fatigue myself these days, although not like yours EP b/c my NM is living in a MC facility but she lives WAY TOO MUCH IN MY HEAD b/c I allow it. That's gotta change PRONTO.
You are right about waiting for your NM to be judged incompetent. These women can Play The Game so well that it can wind up taking 10 more years for your NM to be judged incompetent! Plus, they live to be 100. You are best off making plans for yourself and for her care NOW w/o waiting for any declarations of anything by anybody. Declare YOURSELF fed up with all the BS and make your decisions accordingly. I feel for you, deeply, I really do. I like Chris's idea about moving away. Far far away. What is stopping you? If you are able to do so, DO IT.
Hiring a companion sounds all fine & well, but the bottom line is.............NM is still THERE, on your property, 200 feet away, demanding your time & attention! PLUS she's likely to be even MORE intolerable b/c now she's being 'forced' into having a hired companion when, in her twisted mind, it 'should be' YOU who 'should' want to do it all the time for free! Right? That would be my NMs twisted thinking 100%..........she says it now, that I should WANT her to live with me, etc., never taking her mobility/incontinence issues into consideration at all. Never mind MY life and MY marriage, etc. That's how they roll.
I am so very sorry for your loss of your mother in law.
Many hugs!
Wouldn’t you think that your mom would qualify for hospice?
It’s sad, really. Your mom has numerous health issues! What else are they looking for?
I know what you mean how our mothers are STUCK IN OUR HEADS!! My mother died Oct 31st and she is starting to FINALLY get OUT of my head now after 6 months since she deceased. I find that me going on a diet, exercising, going back to the gym, writing down my thoughts, talking on here, talking to my therapist, going to work, ALL HELPS. As the saying goes, TIME heals all wounds. Unfortunately, when the wounds are still in our HEAD, it takes a lot longer to HEAL. Hugs to you. I know what you are going through. I hope these tips will help you when she gets stuck in your head.
You’re going to make it through this difficult time.
I have complete faith in you.
I have my good days and my bad days. But you are right, I will get through it. Sometimes I have to take it one day at a time.
Lea: "I HATE staying at other people's homes, I don't care WHO they are! I much prefer a nice hotel room myself. That said, when/if my step children come to visit, I will insist they stay in a hotel *and probably wind up paying for it myself* ....they destroy my house when they do come & I won't put up with it anymore...
"I will stop calling over there. If she wants to talk, she can call ME and I can choose to answer or let it go to voice mail. I have a ton of compassion fatigue myself these days, although not like yours EP b/c my NM is living in a MC facility but she lives WAY TOO MUCH IN MY HEAD b/c I allow it. That's gotta change PRONTO."
Actually sounds to me like you're doing a pretty good job vis a vis the boundaries. Love the idea of getting the stepkids to stay in a hotel. I love them too. Trying to decide if I'm willing to risk staying in a hotel for a short beach trip for my birthday in a couple of weeks, DH and I have both had both our shots so it'll probably be OK. That said I'm not wanting to use public restrooms yet so the jury is still out a little.
Great news on DH's liver issues, glad to hear nothing really serious is going on right ATM tho the NM roller coaster has got to be stressful. Be sure to update after you go over Sunday.
Chris: "The biggest shock was actually realising it wasn’t me, it was her! (after years of being told everything was my fault and that I was deficient in so many ways). I have also found, like you, that the experiences of other posters on this site absolutely mirror my own, and this has given me the strength I need to stand up to my NM and to stay firm about the boundaries I’ve now been able to set as a result of this learning."
This board kicks a**. A couple times yesterday while talking to nmom I caught myself thinking about what you all would say about certain things she said. A lot was still the same - too much focus on death, dying, illness and other negative subjects - but miracle of miracles she actually seemed to understand *why* I've taken a big step back and has hired someone to help clean her house out! Plus she wants to stay in her own area as opposed to moving to mine - I just about fainted of shock.
At one point we were talking about my aunt who is also super negative and self absorbed and she seemed to understand why I have stepped back there too - I actually got to say that I don't have much mental energy lately, how much it hurt that nobody in our family seemed to much care that DH was out of work for so long etc. and that I'm tired of being seen as effectively a bottomless resource.
Seriously, I am super shocked. I figured I'd get an earful of how selfish I am, how put upon and pitiful she is and bla bla bla. I'm sure there'll be flashes of that going forward but so far so good on enforcing the boundaries. I think I've successfully sent the signal that I'll be around for calls a couple times a week or true emergencies but the idea of me being available at all times as an emotional support committee is going to have to stop.
Thankfully nmom does have some self awareness, as jacked up as things can sometimes appear between us. She has a bunch of friends and I have effectively some adopted brothers and sisters, which it appears mother is willing to call upon.
HOW are you doing the diet and exercise in covid? I ask because I've gained 10 pounds that I really need to take off. I find being so depressed has led to me not feeling like doing too much of anything (but eating ice cream, also I love to bake which is a problem). Tho I realize exercise would definitely help with that. I'm going to buy a rowing machine this week that I'm pretty excited about actually - I really miss being able to go to the gym and I've always liked rowing. Plus I bought some hand weights I've been using sporadically, they really seem to help with the ADHD "brain fog" among other things.
Piper: "I've been talking about the need for a hired companion on this board for awhile now. Yet I have not had the talk with her. I blamed covid, but in reality I'm also a coward and dread her rage and anger more than anything in this world. She has no idea how much hinges on her willingness to hire a companion. But whose fault is it that she doesn't know-- mine. Who needs to change it? Me."
You can do this. I'm also super cowed by my mom as well as my larger family dynamic - my mother had nine (!) siblings and we have a huge very enmeshed family network, plus we've lived in this same area for generations so even our second and third cousins are around. Everyone talks behind each others backs constantly and nothing any of the cousins do is seen as good enough for our aunts - if I let myself think too much about it I'd completely lose my mind.
All I have to offer is, same as I'm learning to deal with losing so many fun things to covid: One day at a time. Focus on what's right in front of you and what YOU want, right now, today and the future will take care of itself. That said I still think your sister should be picking up a lot more of the slack. She definitely will need to help pay for your mom's new hired help. Great news about your brother's diagnosis not being worst case, also. 👍👍
It was mainly PORTION control. My husband has lost 23 1/2 pounds since January. He said he wants to lose at least another 5 more pounds and he will be within his normal range. His goal is 160 pounds at 5’8”. My son bought us an instapot that we use every night!! We cook chicken in it, onions, carrots, all the healthy foods and vegetables we cook in it. I cook broccoli in it and cauliflower. It tastes delicious. It is worth the investment. My husband always had 2nd or 3rd helpings at dinner and snacked a lot throughout the day. We both cut out all snacking and sugary foods. We limit ourselves to ONE serving at dinner and that’s it. We snack a little bit before bedtime but it’s having cheese and crackers, or animal crackers, or triskets. Plus we drink a lot of water. No more sugary drinks. The weight just fell off. We just started going back to the gym last week since we are fully vaccinated. I hope this helps.
I'm dancing around like Snoopy doing that happy dance he does. Got a call from the MC earlier. All visits are CANCELLED the next 7 days because there's a case of the norovirus over there! I'm certain NM won't get it though.......I told DH it's going to take a METEORITE crashing into the MC to take the woman out 😅. So now we have a whole blessed weekend to ourselves and hey, she can't blame me for not visiting.....she will, naturally, but its not my doing! Piper.....maybe you and DH can "contract" the norovirus this weekend, what do you think? 😁
Hellebore.......so your NM is showing some blood in them there veins instead of ice water...? Whaaaaaat??? Shocking when they show a bit of humanity isn't it? I vote for you going to a hotel for your bday. What good is getting the jabs if we can't relax a bit and go do things? I haven't heard of anyone getting the virus from a hotel. My DD and DH went to play bingo a few weeks ago and there were about 100 people there. I won $75! I even sat in my hairdressers chair for 2 hrs and she had Covid and didn't know it, and I didn't get it....we both were masked. DH and I have spent more time in Ers, hospitals and doctors offices this past year than EVER before, too, and never caught the virus. Plus we have been going out to dinner and to estate sales every weekend for ages now, too. Indoor dining the past month or so. We wear masks when required, and all has been well. I get jab 2 on Tues and DH a few days later.
You know how I have told y’all about my husband’s deceased grandmother and what a self centered, crazy person that she was.
Your ‘nostril’ story reminded me of her.
She actually told us that her hair hurt, so we said, “Do you mean your scalp?” She says, “No, I said my hair!”
So we tell her, “That’s impossible! Hair is dead and doesn’t have any feelings.” She insisted that her ‘hair’ hurt! Go figure!
Oh, but the craziest was when I took her to a fancy uptown restaurant after shopping.
I made the foolish mistake of asking her how she felt before lunch!
She had a very loud voice! This was an intimate place, very quaint, not a large noisy place. She says, “I feel awful! I have been having ‘tightness of the stool!’ Have you ever heard of such a CRAZY thing? 😂 LOL
I wanted to crawl under the table! The poor guy at the table next to us put his fork down! She ruined his appetite!
She never listened to a word that we said. One day, during the dreaded Sunday dinner at her house my brother in law said, “MaMa, the house is on fire.” She says, “That’s nice dear.” We giggled.
So, he says a little louder, “MaMa, didn’t you hear me? I said that the house is on fire.” Once again, she says, “Oh, that’s so nice dear.”
Then she started talking about some silly nonsense as usual.
Well, he didn’t give up and said very emphatically, “MAMA, I SAID THAT THE HOUSE IS ON FIRE!”
By this time we were all cracking up! She says in a very angry tone, “What are all of you laughing at?”
She didn’t believe us when we told her. Oh, if only we had a tape recorder, we could have played it back for her!
Just think, Lea. I bet the crap that you would catch on tape would be priceless if you recorded your mom! 😆
I am telling you that all of us have the material to be great stand up comics, right?
Lea, I love the way you are able to interject some humor into these discussions. I LOL at some of the stuff. A METEORITE Lol. I'm glad you can't go to the MC this weekend. The little things huh? Enjoy your time with DH.
On the flip side, the fact that your mom is so old still going strong and still being a major PIA scares the crap out of me for my future. My mom is only 77. I have reached a tipping point as Chris pointed out. The reason I can't up and move isn't financial, we could easily sell our place, it's because my mom can't stay here alone. So my move has to involve her moving first, I think, but I feel if I had family support and she was forced to face that I am not going to continue like this, then she'd realize she has no choice.
I picture different scenarios in my mind bringing this up. None look easy or good, but I know it will have to happen. My brother gave us word yesterday that his surgery is scheduled for May 17. My mom is planning to go with my sister. I already told my sister I'm not going because I'm NEVER going to travel with my mom, because when she travels is the only time I get a break. She understands. How sad though, that I opt out of supporting my brother during surgery because of this messed up situation. I'm thinking after surgery at some point I will go see him myself.
So, all this talking that needs to happen, with my siblings and with my mom has to wait until my brother gets through this surgery. My burn-out takes a back seat to his cancer surgery.
Wanted to share something with you guys. Yesterday DH and I got together with a man we met here in our early FL days. We hadn't seen him in about 4 years. Very smart man. He did Marine Recon in Vietnam and then worked for the NSA. Divorced. One son who lives in Alabama. I found out on FB that he sold his house & boat and was now living close to our place, so we went over. He was thrilled when I called.
I was shocked how small his place was, and kind of a mess. His old place was never like that. As we were catching up it became obvious to me quickly that he has dementia. He only had about a suitcase worth of clothes there. The refrigerator was on the empty side. As I took it all in we all continued to chat. It was very pleasant even as I was feeling sad at what I was realizing. We told him we moved my mom close to us. He's familiar with our place so he knew what we were talking about- as in proximity.
Then he proceeds to tell us he had his lawyer draw up "everything Cory (his son) needs" and he is moving to Costa Rica. This guy has traveled the world extensively so this wasn't a delusion, but seeing his condition I asked why not Alabama? His response: "No, because I'm never putting Cory in the position you guys are in". I had no come back. I just said well I hope you aren't leaving soon, and he said not quite yet, but that was the plan.
Anyway- he's going to come over to our place for dinner soon. Part of me wondered if I should call Cory. I know him. Money is of no object here, this guy could live in a top notch ALF MC. Maybe Cory doesn't know how his dad has gotten? Or maybe I should just stay out of it?
And here is another twist. My mom met this guy about 6 years ago when she was visiting here, at his house. He invited us all over for a cook-out. After we left my mom made a comment how she liked him and thought he was good looking. She meant it. I had to inform her he likes the younger women, which was entirely true.
Story developing.....
Hey Hellebore so glad your day went well. Making ANY progress with a narc is cause for celebration and you did great. It's very fortunate that your mom has others to call. No one person can fill all the voids these elders have. Some, like mine, will outright expect it, unreal the entitlement of narcs.
It's NOT you, it's them. Narcissistic Personality Disorder is real, and when we have them as parents it is traumatizing. I'm 58 and STILL coming to terms with it. Just always remember it's NOT you.
Piper, that’s a sad story about your old friend. It’s hard to know whether to get involved or not. Despite his condition it’s amazing the clarity he had when seeing your situation though.
casNiagra, it’s not unusual for people to come to this forum, and to this thread particularly, and feel that it was written about their personal experiences and their feelings. Good to hear it has helped you, as it has for so many of us.
I'm glad you enjoy my twisted humor. We're all very stressed out so humor is crucial to keep our heads above water. More on that later.
Your old friend who's moving to Costa Rica. Well good for HIM! His son can always go down there and visit him whenever he wants to right? He's living life on his terms and not burdening his son in any way, how admirable imo. As far as you contacting the son, I don't know. Do what you think feels right to YOU. I doubt the dad will leave without letting him know where he's going.
I don't think you're withdrawing support from your brother by not visiting him while he's going thru surgery...who wants visitors during such a thing anyway? You'll go at a later date when you can be more helpful to him. It's sad indeed that our NMs make it necessary for us to take such measures to PROTECT ourselves, but its how it is.
NM fell out of bed AGAIN at 4am this morning and was found on the floor by staff when the bed alarm went off. No injuries, of course, 71 falls she's up to. She called me a while ago crying about how miserable she is. Talking about wanting to live with her sister Jenny who's dead, or me, and I again explained how her care needs are way too great to live anywhere but where she's at or a SNF. So she starts in about dying again, and how it will be soon hopefully, and nobody will care yada yada. I told her that SHE is making ME quite miserable with all of her crying and refusing to make the best of things while I'm doing MY best to help her. It was a terrible call after another call from the MC where I was woken up with bad news and feeling stressed out. She's also refusing the physical therapy I've worked hard to get reinstated for her and she told the PT no 2x already. I'm in process of filling out forms NOW! I just feel defeated as usual. I also think she'll be MORE miserable with a roommate in the SNF which is why I'm putting it off, but 2nd guessing myself again. When I told her we weren't allowed to visit tomorrow bc of norovirus she said GOOD twice. Seems like she's turned a corner now of making her misery known all the time and staying in her room a lot vs. socializing with the others. It's a small place with 23 residents and gorgeous gardens to sit in if she wants to. She'd just rather be miserable nowadays and let me know about it.
DH and I are going out to dinner tonight and I'm turning my phone off.
casNiagara, welcome to the club nobody wants to be a member of.