Caregiving for a narcissistic mother. Do we do it out of love or out of years of guilt and programming?

Cascia, sorry to read you were feeling so low yesterday. I too have just never related to the idea of a mother who is there for you with that emotional support - it's a totally alien concept for me. I agree it makes you an extremely independent person, which I believe is a strength. It would be nice though to have occasionally been able to just switch off, in the safe knowledge that your mother would catch you if you were falling. The lifelong anxiety comes from knowing there is no such maternal safety net.

Aoi, agreed, this IS group therapy. This forum has helped me so much over the past year, especially as face to face therapy has been on hold due to Covid. And offering advice as well as venting is therapeutic too. I've come to realise I'm not crazy and that there are many other poor souls going through similar experiences. Best of all, we are all getting through this regardless of what our NMs are throwing at us on a daily basis!

Chris,

Spot on!!

I can't sneeze without NM sneezing twice! Lol.

Cascia,

Hope you're feeling better today!!
As sad as it is, probably best that you didn't call Mom !
If she's like my Mom, it only gives her ammunition to hurt me.
I have learned that she feeds on misery and drinks the tears of small children! Lol
(Hope I made you giggle)

(((Hugs)))

Hi all. Just woke up from the 12 hr fugue state I've been in since 5am this morning when I woke up freezing cold and teeth chattering after jab #2. No fever.....just felt like I had an interior raging sunburn going on. Slept on and off 12 hrs and kept trying to pass out if I stood up! DH in a frenzy wondering WTH to do, but now I'm somewhat mobile again and able to stand upright.

I've got my phone turned off again, just no strength to deal with the horror show that's known as NM lately. BarbB, if you are reading this, I know you often recommend a geriatric psychiatrist for the elders who are out of control. Being that NM can't seem to tolerate DRUGS of any kind, do you think this is still a good thing to do? She's ranting and raving and suddenly "so so so miserable " after 2 years of living in the same MC, I'm at a loss. She obviously needs SOMETHING to calm her down, I just don't know what. I guess this is her off the Cymbalta but good Lord, it's too much to tolerate.

Chris, yes, DH knows how very ugly NM is, he just hasn't been the target of her wrath until yesterday. He's the type to slough it off and say consider the source, though. Lucky him.

Cascia, you are so right! When have we ever been able to talk to our mother's about anything? We have to keep everything a secret ffs or they'll be turning THEIR discomfort into OUR nightmare! I will never forget the time I thought I could be pregnant at 19. Long story. I had just moved out of an abusive relationship back in with the folks, and we were in a new state. I had nobody to turn to. Well, NM FREAKED out and went ballistic upsetting me to the point of being a wreck. This was the 70s. No EPT tests. She dragged me to the ER screaming and carrying on (her) and threatening to send me away if I was pregnant, and I got tested. Had to wait 3 hours for results......with her wringing her hands and acting hysterical the entire time. The test was negative. She turned it all off like a switch. All was fine, except I was shaken to the core. Who treats their daughter like a pariah during a scary time? I had mono and that's why my period was delayed, I was actually quite sick. But who cares? At least I wasn't bringing SHAME on the woman.

Aoi, group therapy indeed. It's a miracle we're not all in a rubber room somewhere singing gibberish isn't it?

Lea, I am SO sorry that you had a reaction to your 2nd jab; I had a similar reaction. Good news is that it is short lived. Drink lots of water.

I always say that I think that good geri psychs are the last medical professionals who actuaĺy look at the whole person, body, soul and mind. I think it is a good idea to get one involved.

I wonder if a brief stay in a senior behavioral unit to get her stabilized might be something to consider.

Has she been tested for a UTI?

Feel better!

Yes- thanks all I am feeling better - I am still grieving my dad and all that comes with that, it's a process - sadness comes and goes which is life.

Lealonni1 - The shame, always the shame, the perception of things rather than what actually is. It's exhausting beyond belief to constantly be on guard, really for no reason at all in many cases. The constant reminders of what people think as if anyone cares. Keeping secrets when there are no secrets to be kept because you don't want their twisted perception of reality thrown back at you. No sharing of anything, no sharing of bad things if you need support - because somehow you brought that upon yourself- blame the victim. No sharing of good things because somehow you don't deserve the happiness that comes with it so best to just keep everything under wraps. I am childless and my friends would joke that they wouldn't be surprised to find I had a secret family stashed away somewhere because I don't share a lot, it takes a while for me to open up and trust, I was well trained well to keep tings under wraps as I never knew what the reaction would be if I shared too much or anything at all really. The gaslighting was at times overwhelming so best to keep clear and quiet.

Chriscat83- "It would be nice though to have occasionally been able to just switch off, in the safe knowledge that your mother would catch you if you were falling." Yes how nice that would have been and it may happen occasionally for tangible things but never for emotional support its always a big mistake if I somehow forget that or am feeling vulnerable, mom would be the last person to catch me. Life is hard enough and in most cases she has made it even harder rather than easier. I am lucky to have had a great group of friends that have helped tremendously during this past year not sure how I would have gotten through otherwise.

It really helps to read through these posts especially when I am feeling drained and trying to understand why someone needs to twist everything and can't see another point of view, can't see the ones closest to them having a bit of joy without having a need to chip away at that joy. Why can't they just let others live their lives is the puzzling question with no answer apparently.

dear cascia,

hug!!

you wrote:
“why someone needs to twist everything and can't see another point of view, can't see the ones closest to them having a bit of joy without having a need to chip away at that joy. Why can't they just let others live their lives is the puzzling question with no answer apparently.”

it’s because their joy comes from destroying your joy.

Today and yesterday: Not so great. Both days started out with me being in my own head. Today, much more intensely than yesterday. Although by the end of this post, you'll see that will have changed, entirely.
Yesterday, I had a post I was working on for "Aging Care; Caregiving for a narcissistic mother. Do we do it out of love or out of years of guilt and programming? " (Can we shorten this title? it'd be fun, I think to brainstorm a short term or title we use to reference this group) And was nearly finished when my phone ran out of charge and I lost the whole post. 
I'm not gonna lie. It's a total downer when that happens. I thought of a way to keep that from happening again and like pretty much everything I do, the solution serves several practical problems at once. I'll share the solution with you in a moment.
After the post was lost I plugged the phone in and began where I left off the day before, reading all the posts. All of you have been through so much and have shown so much courage in staying the course. My hope is that I can contribute as much as I've already taken from reading about all of you and your families and trials and tribulations 💐💖🌷. Back to the solution. I journal. Not nearly as much as I should.( Here's a statement for examination: when the word "should" appears in thought and application, it means that "stink'n think'n" is afoot and let's do get into what that is! We'd ALL benefit!) So what I thought is that I can write down posts in my journal ( that's usually an all day, event when I actually do it as it logs thoughts, observations and actions throughout the day) and then when the entry is finished, post it here. I won't lose a post again and I'll be journaling more regularly because even though my journal has saved me from definite insanity, it can't talk back to me. It's the worst therapist ever😋. Posting to the group doesn't insure [or ensure?] a response, but it carries with it a feeling of support. Even if no one replies or even reads it, my feeling is that someone *might* see/read/react/render opinion/share related experience and that's good enough. What I discovered, surprisingly, is that writing to all of you instead of just my journal is that my writing ( journaling) "voice" changed. Instead of dry facts, observations, dates, notations of feelings about whatever it is, I'm actually writing in an engaging way. Now, really, group members, this is your fault. 😋. When I read your posts, all of you are so good at this that it HAD to rub off. 
My phone is going to run out of charge faster because I've discovered this "voice" but it's well worth the extra hour to charge it up in the afternoon. 
So while I write to all of you, I also carve out a time to read. Although I've read nearly all the posts current to last night, I still have remaining posts to read and I'm positive that there are new posts to read as well. So before my next post, which will in all likelihood be at the end of (each) day and I'll start my day with catching up with our group and coffee instead of Pinterest. Good heavens! I have enough projects to keep me busy for the next 1000 years anyway and our group therapy is immeasurably more valuable. I only hope that my participation in this group ads value to all of you.

Write back. Let me know what you think. Don't be shy or feel the need for tact. I'm a tough old bird I'm not going to take a critique like our mothers do. 
 While the subject of critique is out there, let me just say this: Life is meant to be lived not be served. Life is equal parts dirt, work, sacrifice, pain, sweat, imagination, creativity, pleasure, awe and fulfillment and all the things I left out of that list. I'm leaving it to all of you to expand that list. Not just for me. Consider it a group exercise. 😊
What makes life tick? What makes it rock? What makes it stink and would life be better if we didn't have the stink? Or maybe it would be better with a better pleasure to stink ratio?😋
Your Turn!

Aoi, you sort of lost me with your question which I think is :
What makes life tick? What makes it rock? What makes it stink and would life be better if we didn't have the stink? Or maybe it would be better with a better pleasure to stink ratio?

What makes life tick is love, decent health, comfortable living conditions, doing something I love to do, and making income to live. What makes life rock is all of the above in spades, with very little stress or worry about money. What makes life stink is chronic stress and trying to fix things for someone else at my own expense, chronic health issues to deal with and lots of expenses I can't afford. Yes, life would be better without a LOT of stink bc it takes up too much head space. Life is always better with less stress which equates to a better pleasure to stink ratio.

I don't call this thread anything but the NM thread, for ease and convenience purposes. Don't over think things, if possible. We all have enough on our minds ALREADY thanks to our NMs, right? 🙄 Your participation in this group has already added a great perspective which I enjoy. Everyone here helps me more than you'll ever know.

Barb, I think a consult with a geriatric psychiatrist for my mother is the best idea. Getting her into a senior behavioral unit briefly would be ideal. I spent a while last night (when I was lucid) worrying about how she'd somehow Showtime her way thru the consult and wind up having the psychiatrist want to examine ME after he finds her totally normal and not belonging in MC which is what she insists. She can always manage to get what she wants, this woman, that's my fear. I will speak with her pcp next week about how to proceed. Of course the pcp sees a whole diff side of NM than I do, too. That's a big part of the issue with the covert narcs.....NOBODY knows them but US, making their treatment very difficult!

Cascia, so true about the NMs victim blaming!!! Interesting you mention constantly being on guard. To this day, at 94 with moderately advanced dementia, NM is hyper vigilant of EVERY single thing that goes on in the room or area when we are visiting. It's bat sh*t crazy. We've taken to setting her wheelchair in front of the window (back to the window) so she can see if someone leaves or enters the bldg. (The room where we visit is off the main lobby of a very small bldg). If a FLY comes in, she sees it, comments on it, has questions about it, it's insane. We can't even visit bc of her distraction with noise or doors opening or seeing a person and what she's wearing or doing or saying! DH calls it The Squirrel Syndrome. Even when we did window visits, if I moved my eyes off of her face, she'd ask what I was looking at? If there was someone else in the room? She was like this when I was a kid.....on me like white on rice. Had to be going thru my stuff 24/7 to know what I was "up to" or "hiding"......she prides herself on never missing a trick aka total lack of trust in anyone. What is this? Aside from mental illness. Anyone have an NM with similar behavior? This is not what you were referring to about being "on guard" cascia, it just brought this matter up for me.

Lea, if someone who I deemednqualified declared my mom "fine", I'd walk away.

My mom's PCP said she was "fine". Then why did she call me three days running at work and demand my immediate presence? (My mom was NOT a narcissist, this was very out of character).

On day 3, I told her point blank that I wasnt going to respond to these "emergencies" any longer, that she"d have to move elsewhere.

She resisted at first, but we all 3 of us refused budge. (Shortly thereafter, cognitive assessment ordered by geri psych determined she could no longer live alone)

I think if she charms her way through seeing the psych (and of course, you come with documentation of the 72 falls because she can't reemember not to get up) then turn your back and let her manage on her own. But I don't think that will happen.

Thanks Barb, I always tend to conjure up the worst case scenarios because hey, this is my mother I'm dealing with and she's very good at pulling the wool over other's eyes. She hasn't been tested in the last few weeks, at least, for a uti, btw, which is always a possibility I suppose. You are right, any medical pro who says shes fine I will walk away from! 😑

I did a smart thing today. I ordered $156 of "necessities" for her on Amazon to be delivered on Sunday! I'm in no condition to go schlepping to Wal mart for a non existent list she refuses to produce and then schlep it all over to the MC. Screw it. I used her debit card, of course, and ordered her precious snacks and enough "beauty products " to keep her for 6 months.

Lealonnie, speaking of pulling the wool over someone’s eyes, when my mother was 86 she got into a minor fender bender. The cops were involved and the DMV made her retake her road test to see if she could still drive.

It was a rainy day and I had to drive her to take her road test. You know the one, where they test your ability to DRIVE???

Well, I sat on the backseat and my mother was in the drivers seat and the instructor was in the passenger seat. My mother who is normally a bundle of nerves was cool as a cucumber. She started talking about history, and any fun facts known to man. Then she goes on to ask the instructor about his life and gives him one compliment after another.

Finally the instructor turns to me and says, your mother has a better mind than you and me put together!!! She doesn’t need to take a road test. PASS he writes on the paper. PASS without ever DRIVING for the DMV!!! That’s a pure genius!!!

Im so glad you ordered everything for your mother on Amazon without stepping foot in a store!! That’s what I do. I hate shopping so I order everything online or on Amazon. It’s so much easier.

Stepping away from your mother is a good idea. Wait for her to call you!! You are doing great!!! So proud of you!!!

Elaine....that story is a PERFECT example of what these NMs do to pull the wool over other people's eyes! What does story telling and plain old bullshi**ing have to do with whether or not your mother was still capable of DRIVING after an accident!? Ridiculous she was able to pass a road test based on talking.

Lea ,

My NM is convinced that everyone in her ALF is out to get her! She knows, because she sees it all! Ugh!!

Aoi,

My answer is " A joy shared, is a joy doubled!"

Jodi, your NM must be my NMs twin bc everyone on EARTH has been out to get her forever! The whole world is " AGAINST" her!

Just got a call from the MC. Visits are called off again this week. Norovirus is spreading and now up to 7 residents out of 20-23. No, my mother is not on the list. Did you think otherwise? 😂

No word from her highness since Tues and the tongue lashing she gave DH. I'm certainly not calling her, either! 😁

Um, Lea, what I meant was, if someone (geripsych for example) says that your mom is "fine", I would walk away from YOUR MOM.

If she is declared fine, you have no reason to be running your a$$ off, getting her stuff and solving her problems.

I have a "bright line" thing; either you are independent and can get along without my help, OR you need my help and you need to work with me so the situation can work for me, too.

i was never willing to give up my livelihood, my marriage or my vacations in favor of what my elderly parents needed.

For my kids? Yes, I re-schedule stuff, make sure I don't go on vacation during school holodays and make sure I don't go on vacation when my ex is going to be gone.

To me, the obligation goes down the generation.

Lea,
The last time I went to visit Mom, the woman escorting us to her room went on and on about how wonderful she is! Had my Mom not been right there, I would have told her "This is not the same woman I grew up with!!!"
Yes, they can pull the wool over most anyone!

My brother called me this afternoon, because he's concerned that Mom wants to buy a car. (News to me) She told him that I never come see her so she could drive to see me!! OH MYLANTA!!(she doesn't have dementia, just mobility issues)
Does she not realize that we're still in the throws of a pandemic!!
The AFL just opened for visitors by appointment 3 weeks ago and I've been there twice.

Cascia,

The best thing you can do for yourself is to stop trying to get inside the head of a narcissist!!
I image it's like a Picasso painting! The only person who TRULY understands it's Picasso!!

Educate yourself about how to deal with a narcissist. YouTube is a great resource!!

It's not easy to put into practice!
It takes a conscious effort every interaction with them, but eventually it will become a little bit easier!!
It's like eating an elephant, ONE BITE AT A TIME!!

(((Hugs)))

Lealonnie, you have been doing a GREAT job at walking away from your mother. Even though your mom is in a facility you use to call her ever night and run around to every store looking for items for your mom just for her to tell you she didn’t like such and such.

You have come a long way!!! You haven’t called your mom, you are letting her call YOU. You are buying her items on Amazon and having them shipped to her instead of you dropping everything to run around and do it all.

Im so proud of you. You have come such a long way!!!

In the end, I had to back of seeing my mother also. My son was going to her house 2 times a week and I was going once a week and I stopped calling her. She would call me. I use to call her but then she wouldn’t pick up the phone. She couldn’t blame it on not HEARING the phone because I bought her an amplifier from Amazon that attached to her phone. It AMPLIFIED the phone ring that I would jump when I heard it. But she chose not to answer her phone. So I quit calling.

Hugs going out to you. Great job!!!

Barb, *bright line*. Love it!

I think some of mine crossed over to the *dark side*. LOL

Barb, hey, if a Geri psych told me my mother was fine? You betcha sweet bippy I'd walk away from HIM! Because if she could fool him, then he's a terrible doctor! She's been psycho Betty her whole life and I'm about ready TO walk away from HER too, truthfully. Oh, I'll continue managing her life from here and making sure she has everything she needs, but that's it.

What DH and I were talking about earlier is how outraged I feel over her expectation that I uproot my whole life, renovate my whole house, move my DH into the lower level, so I can move her in here. In a wheelchair, completely immobile, in diapers where she has to be changed in BED in the wee hrs of the morning by aides due to all the FALLS, the 32 falls she's taken in MC ALONE the past 22 months.....meaning I'd have to call 911 each time to pick her up! DH can't pick up 200 lbs of dead weight, nor can I, so just that alone! Oh, and I'd have to renovate the shower to remove the tub, the toilet to make it higher, put bars in the shower, etc. Plus I'd have to heave her in there and wash her, dry her, etc. Who expects this from a soon to be 64 yo daughter with bad arthritis? A narc, that's Who! So the next time SHE calls ME in a foul mood about the nerve I have not moving her in here, THIS is the talk we're gonna have. Which will go in one ear and out the other, naturally. I'm right about at the end of my rope now.

And wait till she gets to the SNF and gets quarantined for 2 weeks and then moves in with a roommate! Looks like I'll REALLY be The Devil then, huh?

Elaine, thanks for always offering support and understanding, all the time, from someone who's been in the ugly depth of the trenches. My mother wasn't answering her phone for a while now. When I asked her about it, she said "I never heard no phone" which is another bald face lie. The room is 12x12. It's impossible NOT to hear the phone. She wasn't taking my calls. Now she doesn't have to bear the stress of hearing the phone ring or making up lies! Win win! 😁

Jodi, your mother is a big fat liar, just like mine! Good luck to her figuring out how to buy a car and then driving it to see the ingrate daughter who never Visits! Oh, and the difference between a Picasso painting and a narc is a Picasso is worth millions and people line up for hours to see them. And a narc? Worth nothing and people flee like scared rabbits to AVOID seeing them. 🤣

Hello again!
Hugs and a whole bunch of gratitude to everyone.
Tonight I'm waxing serious. And although I'm addressing Cascia, tonight, I really want everyone reading to know I'm thinking about you, have 98% caught up to current and thank you.
Cascia
What I'm about to say, I don't say lightly: Whatever happiness you earn, you earn. It's yours to keep in whatever way you choose to keep it. It can't be trivialized, marginalized, run over by a beast or guilted into non-existence. You earned it. Your mother is ENVIOUS of it BECAUSE it's yours and not hers. Her state of mind dictates that all joy should belong to her. Twisting what you say has a similar motive. All things that are valuable, should and ought to BELONG to your mother in her reality. It's the narcissist sense of entitlement that is sitting, squarely and without a license, in the driver's seat. Narcissists cannot live and let live. Whatever another has, they want for themselves and if they cannot have it they belittle it. In my experience, they are attempting to convince themselves that it isn't worth having while they are cutting it to ribbons. The fact that you're there to witness it is more than icing on the cake, it's a necessary tool that provides validation for the deconstruction of your positive experience that they cannot have/own/possess because it is YOUR experience and they envy that it cannot be exclusively THEIRS. All joy, all positive experience, all things in general OUGHT, in their minds, belong to them. 
So, based on that you might think that narcissists had a rough time getting their needs met as kids and that's why they want to possess everything. Although it may be true that getting needs met was an issue, that is not, entirely, the driver of the narcissist train. If it were, each of us here would be narcissists. Let that sink in for just a sec. Like so many diseases of the mind, narcissism is a product of both nature and nurture. The traits are shared by every tyrant in history. Each of these people sought to own/possess everything in their path and everything they learned about. It is an insatiable hunger. Even when the narcissist gets what they want, they tire of it quickly and are often annoyed by it.
Cascia, and the rest of us, you aren't the problem. You never have been. You aren't even a small portion indirectly contributing to the problem. We can't ever make things right or okay for our mothers. All we can do is our best to keep them safe. 
I hear you and I so want to be able to give you the tools to fix the problem that's causing you so much anguish. All I can do for now, is give you the small comfort of knowing that you aren't alone and narcissism is our common enemy. Know this: We all know that you are doing your ultimate best. When she starts in on you, picture us standing behind you, literally and figuratively. Picture our little avatars, the curly, black, dog, the tan pup with a tiara, The stylish girl in the golden cap, the turquoise bubbles, "B", "S", "T" and two "E"s , the lovely pastoral, green field, the pensive Husky, the colorful heart quilt block, the curious Llamas, the bobcat and the blue hare. We are united on your behalf. We've got your back.

Aoi says, "Narcissists cannot live and let live. Whatever another has, they want for themselves and if they cannot have it they belittle it. In my experience, they are attempting to convince themselves that it isn't worth having while they are cutting it to ribbons."

This. I've never heard it summed up so perfectly. Phew. Incredibly insightful words right there

And, "Cascia, and the rest of us, you aren't the problem. You never have been. You aren't even a small portion indirectly contributing to the problem. We can't ever make things right or okay for our mothers. All we can do is our best to keep them safe."

Amen. I think I'm just NOW realizing this. My dad was "the problem". Then he died and now I'm "the problem". Truth is, SHE'S been the problem all along. As hard as I've tried, I've been unable to make things right or okay for her and now I'm sick to death of trying.

Lea: Hope you feel better now? So sorry. Just now saw that you had a reaction to your 2nd vaccine.

lealonnie1,
Thank you. I got to the conclusions you just read the hard way 'round. Like you, I've just recently allowed it to make contact with my deeper gray matter.
The NM group were talking today about Nmamas and their ability to charm the socks off of just about anyone including seasoned professionals. Although the attempt itself is a red flag, our gifted NMamas have been at this for a very long time. Just as they know how to push our buttons, they also know how to unpush buttons on other people that release what I like to call "golden keys". They know how to "showtime" and for the most part, I think they love it which leads me to believe that all or most of the hytristonics performed as memory discombobulation and physical ailment are, indeed, false. Mom has been tested and retested for everything under the sun but the tests haven't revealed anything we didn't already know. None of her doctors have even begun to suggest mental screening. I've spoken to several of her health care workers, nurses and doctors concerning mental instability. I've done that right in front of mom which gets me the death-glare/murder-by-stink-eye and she's screamed over the phone while I've made appointments for her: "Don't pay any attention to her! She's trying to get me comitted!!" You'd think just that would raise a red flag, but no. It doesn't. According to her neurologist, she's got "unspecified anxiety" and mild cognitive impairment. Of course, if the neurologist would spend more than 7 minutes with her, other things might become apparent.
Mom's never been stable. I walked away at 22 years of age to take a job far away first, then get married, then started a family. To this day she interprets that as "running off". Each time she mentions that, I ask her "at 22, don't you think I might have been starting my own life?" Her answer is consistently " you ran off and abandoned your dad and me. You could have kept your job here and married one of your 1000 boyfriends but you had to run off and leave us and marry that Port-O-Rick-Ann and have a half-breed child." My family, what there is remaining, believe her and that there was some other, evil reason I "ran off". I haven't yet found out what that might be, beyond whispers that stop as I enter the room.
This comes from a woman who swears that there is not a racist bone in her body and people believe her.
So I completely understand the worst case scenario that plays out in your head, lealonnie1. I get it, all too well.
Bless you. Hope you rest well, if you read this in the early sunlight, I hope you had a good night. 🌹💖💐🤗🌷🌺🐰

Kudos to ALL of You!!

The fact that we're here on this thread (over 1k now), is in my mind a testament to our resilience!!

We have refused to be victims!
We are survivors!!

This incredible group has given me so much advice, insight, inspiration and support!!

Lord how I wish we could all get together in one room!!

We may be at different stages of our journey, but we stand together!!

I LOVE IT!!!

(((Hugs)))😘

Aoi, good one about the "mild cognitive impairment " dx your NM was given. I've read posts here from people out of their minds caring for parents playing with their feces and smearing it all over the walls who were dxed with "mild cognitive impairment". They're more likely in LATE STAGE dementia but oh yeah, the Almighty Neurologist has passed down The MCI Diagnosis which is laughable if it weren't so ridiculous. I left my NM alone with her "progressive dementia " dx back in 2016 after she scored a 19 on the MoCa test, then a 10 in 2019, and sloughed off the neurologist who insisted on a follow up after the hospital in 19 after she admittedly couldn't do a blessed thing for NM. To hell with all of them. The more drugs they throw at my mother the worse she gets. Only time she was civil was on Cymbalta but the falls got even more frequent, so here we are.

I hear you loud n clear on the racist nonsense too. NM will tell you she doesn't have a racist bone in HER body either (she hates all ethnicities equally). Snicker. My dd has gotten to the point where she cant even talk to her because NM loves to throw out derogatory gay slurs which irks her no end. Actually, I can't think of ANYONE she really likes. Everyone has a nasty nickname like The Big Fat One (this from The 200 lb Woman) or The Cross Eyed One. Everyone has so many flaws except her.

That is vile for your NM to call her GRANDCHILD a half breed, and worse yet, to feel JUSTIFIED in doing so, as only a true narc could. It's like mine saying if it weren't for my father, she would've had children and grandchildren of "her own." I'm adopted. Some sh*t just can't be taken back once it's said. Just gotta step back and disengage.

Llamalover, thank you. I am JUST now feeling better and finally ate something after 2 days! Took a shower too and feel human again😁

Jodi, kudos to YOU for starting such a fantastic thread! It would be fun to be together in one room, hook boy, what a chat THAT would be 🤣

I’m sure that if my mother had been diagnosed back when she was much younger she would have had a bunch of diagnoses. Narcissistic behavior, borderline personality disorder, and also probably bipolar disorder. She was a combination of so many things.

In 1978 she was 54 years old and definitely SHOULD have gotten some kind of diagnosis but never did. She was in a facility for mental health and stayed there for 30 days. The reason she did not get a diagnosis is because she DIDN’T TALK about anything. She didn’t talk about the past, present, or future. How can you diagnose anyone when they WONT talk or share their life story or get a glimpse on what is going on in their head??

I feel that was the only opportunity my mother ever had for a proper diagnosis and instead of it being an opportunity, it was a MISSED opportunity.

So I guess what I am saying is that unless your mother or father open up and talk to professionals, they will never get a diagnosis. We do the best that we can as caregivers. We all deserve a big pat on the back for everything we have done for our NM. We should get a MEDAL for everything we have done.

If your LO gets a diagnosis, you are very fortunate. I just feel that if my mother had a diagnosis, perhaps she would have gotten the help she needed. A diagnosis is half the battle. I truly believe that the right medication could have helped my mother way back when she was 54.

"No. I won't be doing that".
Silence

I am getting better at this.

I don't know when, but something just snapped. Some cord that kept me emotionally tied to the "I want you to..." or "I have a job for you...".

Now, I honestly don't give a rat's tail about whatever the request is. Just don't care. You want it - then WANT it. Or you DO it, or you HIRE someone to do it. You wish... then WISH it. Send your wishes out to the universe: on a star, to the moon, with the flying pigs in the sky. Wherever they fly they do not enter my real world.

Maybe I am being the self-centred one now???

Elaine,

I can't even imagine having to deal with what we now know as Dementia/Alzheimer's without a proper diagnosis!!

That's exactly why your insight is so valuable!!

Thank you so much!!