Caregiving for a narcissistic mother. Do we do it out of love or out of years of guilt and programming?

It's been awhile since I've had time to check in. My son and the wedding crew left yesterday. I was so determined to make it a great trip despite the anxiety I was feeling and I am happy to say I pulled it off. Things went great with them, I was SO, so happy to see my son, and everyone was so appreciative. It was a LOT of work, and tbh honest I really got exhausted, but the people who came, especially my son, made it so worth it.

OF COURSE my NM got angry several times since she wasn't getting enough attention. For example she told me multiple times that my son could use her car, in fact she offered! So he took it to the gym when the others were using our car, and NM calls me up and gave me so much grief because he didn't ask HER first. So I said well next time I will tell him to ask first, and she hung up on me! Oh, there were multiple other pouting incidents and I wanted to go off, but I just kept ignoring it. Then she wonders why everyone hung at our place. My son did go out of his way to spend some time with her, but of course it wasn't enough. I could go on, but I won't, she was still the same HUGE PIA.

Then yesterday after everyone left, 15 mins later she's calling me wanting to tell me she wants to look into back surgery and her pain doctor gave a referral that is 90 mins away, one way. I dodged that and said I was tired- talk to you later.

My mom has had multiple scans and MRI's and there is NOTHING in her back that warrants surgery, or even these opiates! Years of refusing any kind of physical therapy (including to this day) has not helped things I'm sure, but I also know the main reason for this is her opiate addiction. She won't come clean with me but I have a feeling the pain doctor is starting to push her to get off these pills. Just another mess with her coming my way. But no way am I taking her 90 mins away to discuss back surgery, she'll have to go around here, which there are plenty-- this whole thing is messed up. If she keeps pushing for this, I'm going to tell her that if she gets surgery then she will be released to rehab because I'm not doing anything in terms of aftercare or rehab.

Then this morning I got more bad news about my brother- his cancer has metastasized, he has lymph node involvement. I'm still trying to process this all, but it's going to be a tough road for him. His optimism is fading fast, and when I talked to him earlier he was really down and said he was just trying to process everything. I didn't even mention NM at all. I don't know how much he will decide to tell her, but my guess is not much.

Jodi, no one in their right mind wants anything to do with a narc, why would your brother be any different? Next time suggest he go to a hotel when he wants to come visit and use your place for free room and board. And leave NM at her ALF where she pays others to put up with her b.s., that's my suggestion.

Piper, so happy to hear things went well with your son! I had no doubt you'd pull off a fabulous event 😁 Sorry to hear about your brother's bad news. Lots of strides these days with cancer treatments though, so have faith. A good friend of ours was at deaths door 2x with lymphoma and is in full remission now after a bone marrow transplant. No cancer at all has been found on his last few PET scans, just like my ex...5 years cancer free after stage 4 colon cancer dx in 2016. Don't lose hope. Many miracles DO happen.

Your NM has to own her opiate addiction which truly sucks bc that's a horrible thing for a person who's horrible to begin with. You're right to insist she see a local surgeon ffs. Imagine an elder with dementia even considering such a thing? Mind blowing.

My mother has taken a big downhill turn the past month. She's nearly incoherent a lot of the time now, unable to use the phone for the most part, has fallen 2x more lately, and just awful in general. Having trouble breathing, she says, so using oxygen more than just while sleeping. I still think the CHF is amping up but idk. Sad situation all the way around. Shes calling my dd by the wrong name and thinks she had the great grandchild, not my son's wife. She also calls him by the wrong name now. It's terrible to witness such a dramatic decline in one's own mother. Such a level of confusion where answering the phone is nearly impossible is unreal. Yesterday she got her wheelchair stuck in the bathroom for an hour before she thought to pull the string to summon a CG for help!

Dh is undergoing a ton of tests. He's got a parasite from working in the soil and water for 20 years...so that has to be treated. 😮 The next big test of concern is coming up in July...a stress echo cardiogram which can nix the whole liver transplant deal if it comes back bad. He's nervous about it, poor thing. I don't know how he stays so positive with all this hanging over his head. He told me he wants to go to Tx and Mo to see his kids in case he doesn't live thru the transplant, IF he even gets it. What a thing to have on our minds, esp with him being only 63.

Where has everyone been? Aoi? Shell? Everyone else? Not many checking in anymore which is sad. I'm not great at doing so myself these days, a lot going on. Hope everyone is ok. Sending hugs to all.

EP: I knew that you could pull the wedding off. Sorry about your brother. And you don't need your mom's drama.

Lea: Continued prayers for your DH.

Jodi, Piper, Lea, good to hear from you all, even though your various news isn’t all positive. Whatever you are going through, try and focus on giving kindness, compassion, love for those who matter and who also care about you. Sideline the difficult, unsupportive people. They can take care of their own needs and wants right now or get someone else to help them. Piper, praying for your brother, and Lea, for your DH.

I just have to laugh!!

Called NM this afternoon to shore up what time I will pick her up for her Dr appointment tomorrow.
30 minutes to pick her up, 45 minutes to the Dr, perhaps an hour at the Dr, 45 minutes back to her place and 30 minutes back home.
Half of my day, when I have more company coming in 2 days.

When I called her today, she was angry at me because I didn't tell her Happy Father's Day!
She feels that she has been both mother and father!
My Dad(God rest his soul), was always there. She had poisoned my opinion of him so much that I didn't want to have anything to do with him until I was much older.

Seriously????
It's all about her!!! Lol

On what planet?? Lol

Jodi: As a friend of mine would say, that's rich. Glad that you could laugh at it.

Jodi, as Llama says, best if you can laugh rather than get annoyed. Was she expecting a card and present too?!

Chris & Llama,

It is rich!! It's also not the first time! Lol

I think because her birthday is next week, she wasn't expecting anything other than a "Thank you ". I refuse to say it!

It's just goes to show how twisted the mind of a narcissists can be.

Had to drive her(1 1/2 hours one way) to see the Orthopedic Dr today.
He told her that her right knee was bad enough for a knee replacement, however, because of some of her meds, it's very risky. So he injected both knees with Cortisone. I'm praying this helps!!! None of the skilled nursing facilities here are accepting new patients, because they don't have enough workers. There is no way in Hell that she can come here to recoup!!!
I would have to give my hubby and myself tranquilizers. Lol

Jodi: Double rich? Or more? Sheesh. I'm sorry, truly. I am glad that you posted about your mother getting corticosteroid injections in her knees today and you stated that you hoped it helps. I've been getting them in my knees 3x a year for about 5 years. I walk out easily like I am 20 again and I am 74 years of age.

In my case-
I think that I am trying to get the love that I haven't got yet.

As a child, my mother despised and regularly beat me.
As an adult, my mother constantly verbally & emotionally beats me, daily.
As her primary caregiver, my mother mistrusts, hates & still cruelly abuses me.

My mother does occasionally state "I love you ... you are so good to me".
I am hoping that someday, I might actually feel that she means it.

Right now, She tells me that so I will do something 'extra' for her. It is always something that she knows that I don't want to do: but end up doing it.
So, yup.. I do it for love... not to show her love; but to get any possible REAL long withheld love.
I just keep trying, needing and wanting to be loved by my mother. I don't want her to keep hating and despising me.

Hi Bevel,
I was reading your post and I found it so sad. You are an amazing and a strong woman. I do not think I could do what I do for my mother for 22 years if I was treated poorly. Lots of caregivers on this site had not so great childhoods but with great strength, courage and kindness they rise above it and help their loved ones. Amazing human beings for sure!

Dear Bevel,
Sometimes we need to step back and really evaluate how we are being treated by others espicially our loved ones and do something about it . I am so sorry the way you were treated by a mother that should have been loving and kind to you. It is ok to back off and think of yourself.
I would suggest getting into counceling to help you work through all the trauma of your childhood up to the present if your haven't already. You can still be there for your mother, but not so much hands on.
I wish for you a calm and peaceful life. Please try to be good to yourself by distancing yourself from your mother.I know you want her love but she continues to abuse you emotionally and you deserve betther. Take good care of yourself and keep us posted.

Bevel, some people are truly incapable of feeling love for another or showing love. That may be the case with your mother. I agree with earlybird that it's sad what you're subjecting yourself to.....you deserve more. Please consider counseling to realize you CAN step back from this thankless caregiver role you're subjecting yourself to and have your mother pay for hired help she can abuse instead. Expecting her to become the loving mother you've always longed for isnt likely to happen. Hired help is a much better way to go and you can pop in occasionally to say hello.

I realized long ago my mother is just a mean old woman who's getting meaner by the day with her dementia. I've quit expecting or hoping for anything from her anymore, and life has gotten a bit easier. She never was or will be my friend or confidante and it is what it is. I do as little as possible for her so I don't get bitten by her sharp tongue and teeth. I've wised up some in my old age. She lives in Memory Care Assisted Living and pays others to put up with her nonsense. Works out well.

Wishing you the best of luck moving forward with YOUR life and away from the toxic abuse she's handing out.

I take comfort in Jesus' loving arms.

Everything we go through, He has gone through so He understands.

This is how I sum up being a live in care giver for a narcissist mother: I have been a caregiver for almost seven years and it is the most challenging, unrewarding, abusive experience I have ever endured.
On the other hand, it is because of these experiences that it has driven me every closer unto my Beloved Poppa, Jehovah, my best friend, Jesus and my most amazing Mentor, The Holy Spirit.
For that I am grateful.
Joseph a son of Jehovah

Just wanted to share something with all of you that regularly visit this thread. I just listened to H. G. Tudor speak in an interview. He is truly fascinating.

There are many professionals and others who speak about narcissistic behavior. Hearing about narcissistic behavior from H. G. Tudor is getting it straight from the horse’s mouth! He has been diagnosed as a narcissist and psychopath.

The interviewer’s questions were brilliantly answered. For instance, he was asked, “How does a person crush a narcissist?” He simply answered, “You can’t crush a narcissist with any specific action because we are designed to manipulate, ruin or destroy everything and everyone. Nothing effects our behavior because we have no empathy or remorse. We sometimes fake empathy or remorse but we don’t mean it. We only do it to manipulate others. The only way to win the war with a narcissist is to NOT fight the battle. Don’t just walk away either, don’t fuel the narcissist with anything at all. Don’t feed him/her on social media. Don’t talk publicly about us. Don’t get upset because that is what we want and need as fuel. If you ignore us completely, we decide to retreat. It isn’t because you want us to retreat. It is because we aren’t being given fuel. We control everything. Even if we choose to help an old lady across the street, we don’t care about the old lady. We are looking to impress our girlfriend or someone else. It’s about our ego.”

So, don’t ever feel that a narcissist doesn’t realize what he/she isn’t doing. Oh, they know! I was captivated with this interview. He even said that he knew that he was set apart from others from the time he was a young child. Very interesting man, indeed!

The situation with my mom continues to deteriorate. A little over a week ago I suggested that she hire a companion aid for some outside support. This went over like a lead balloon and she argued with me "Oh are you a doctor now?" and other insults before hanging up and starting with the silent treatment.

My brother is dealing with very serious cancer right now which is another thing I am trying to cope with, and my mother is even treating him bad, she is just beyond miserable and lashing out at everyone.

I finally had a meeting with an elder care attorney yesterday to find out what I need to do to get my mom into an ALF MC. I already have a DPoA for both financial and medical. Most of you know my mom was diagnosed with dementia in 2019.

The answer is I can not place her unless she is willing to go unless I go to court and get guardianship, which as we know is long and costly. The other way is for there to be a crisis and she ends up in the hospital, and it's determined she is not safe to live alone, and I refuse to be the caretaker.

So, the nice ALF I found that I was hoping I could place her in will not happen, because my mom is refusing ANY outside support, and will never agree to an ALF.

I'm at my wits end. In what world does it make more sense to have a CRISIS before placing people where they BELONG??

And if anyone is thinking it might be worth it to get guardianship just to save my sanity, well I spent some time asking the atty about that too. She asked a lot of questions about my mom - does she know her name? Yes. Can she hold a "normal" conversation for 10-15 mins? Yes. Basically asking if she can appear normal for short periods and I said yes because it's true. The atty's own mother had dementia so she totally understood the show timing and how that goes, and she told me my mom would probably win a competency hearing. She explained in Florida adults have the freedom to make bad decisions, bad choices.

I'm stuck until there is a crisis.

EP, I feel for you. Also for your brother. Yikes.

So, here's the thing. Something we all say to each other ALL the time.

You only have control over YOUR behavior, right?

What if you stopped driving your mom places, stopped cooking her meals, stopped calling her, stopped taking her calls?

Said "Nope, Mom, you play ball with me on the companion thing or your are not getting ANY companionship from me. Zero. Zilch".

Take a vacation. Go away for two weeks and leave your mom to her own devices. Go visit your brother. Or go to Punta Cana or someplace relaxing.

If your mother is so all-fired "independent" let her have at it.

Stop torturing yourself with trying to save her. Her happiness is NOT your responsibility.

I know. It sounds mean. So is your mom.

Barb she's been giving me the silent treatment for days now. My brother wanted my help to fix something she screwed up on her computer, I agreed to go over and help and five minutes later he called me back that she doesn't want me there- so don't go over. He told her he couldn't do it without my help, that's when she lashed out at him and hung up on him.
So.... I have been staying away, and will continue to do so. It's just hard to ignore the woman and go about life when she is right next door.

I am going to make a plan to get away.

Piper there is a term in psychology--natural consequences.

Your mother can't get her computer fixed by your brother unless she is speaking to you. If she's not speaking to you, she will have to pay someone to fix her computer.

Stop letting her off the hook for her bad behavior. She will likely show up like nothing happened in a day or two, right?

Nope. Don't buy that. Say "So, mom, let's talk about the companion, or aide or helper or whatever you want to call it. I need NOT to be your punching bag and general factotum anymore.

You need to hire someone to help you because I'm not doing this anymore".

And stick to it.

EP,

I am so sorry that you and your brother are going through this. I will certainly say prayers for both of you.

You’re in such a tough situation. I hope everything will work out in your favor.

EP: I, too, am sorry that you and your brother are going through this. Big hugs sent.💚

Hi. I’m new to the caregiving space (one year in) and my mom is very angry, lashes out at me and is manipulative. And, honestly, a lot of this behavior has gone on my entire life….it’s just more amplified now. She’s 83, mentally sharp and in relatively good health, but since my dear Dad passed last year of COVID, she’s having to manage life things that she’s never had to do on her own including pumping gas. I’ve done everything thing I can to help, try to make her happy, offered and researched solutions. She doesn’t like any solutions and has told my brother and I that she would not leave her home until she’s carried out in a pine box. In reality, the house / yard is too much for her now. She doesn’t act out with my brother like she does me, and I know he struggles to understand my experiences that I share with him. We are also in a hard spot as I live 3.5 hours away and he is 17 hours away and she has no friends / family in the area. That being said, I wanted to share my story as a way of intro and to let you know this thread has been the first thing I’ve read that has really resonated with me and I appreciate your honesty / sharing. Im trying to work through this with love and kindness: however, I’m in the phase of seeing a therapist and creating healthy boundaries as all three of us are strained, confused, and lost. Michele

Welcome Michele/Bunnymerkel, to the club nobody wants to belong to. 🤐 My condolences on the loss of your dad to Covid. Seems the mother's get worse after their DHs pass....mine did bc her punching bag was gone and now I'm it, even more so than ever before. The thought of her ever pumping gas makes me laugh....or even writing a check, for that matter. She's The Queen who relied on dad for everything (even driving, and refused to drive even when he couldn't anymore) and when he died, I had to take over managing her life. Which means nothing is ever good enough, etc. You know the drill.

EP, sending you a big hug from across the miles. I think you and DH need a nice vacation to a resort somewhere so others can wait on you and bring you cocktails! 😁 Doesn't that sound divine? Since NM is perfectly capable of doing everything for herself, slip a piece of paper with local phone numbers of services under her door and then off you go on a nice vacay!!! I think DH and I are due for a week away too soon.....which is what we tell NM every now and then so we can be incommunicado for a week! It's heavenly! I like Barbs assessment of the "natural consequences" myself.

My NM has been super depressed lately (worse than usual) so the doctor is paying her a visit on Thursday to change her anti depressants. God help us ALL bc we KNOW how the woman reacts to drugs in general. Now shes on a rampage insisting the CGs are putting her to bed "naked" bc she has no nightgowns!!! Which is a lie. So I ordered 3 MORE nightgowns from Kohls and I'll bring the damn things over there tomorrow for the Dreaded Visit. I will root out ALL of her nightgowns from in the closet and/or the drawer and add the new ones to the collection. If need be, I'll order another 6 nightgowns for her just to get her to STOP the chronic b.s. about this manufactured crisis! Last one was about bras. So I went to Target and bought her TEN sports bras so I didn't have to hear about Twisted Hooks and/or the bas**rd CGs stealing her bras. I have 3 more in the trunk of my car waiting for "someone to steal her bras" again and for her to need new ones. Sigh. She's had 2 more falls recently bringing the total up to 76. The last 2 she's blaming on the "piece of junk shoes" I killed myself buying for her a few months back. Which is rich bc she can't walk anyway, and was bending over the bed to put on the shoes when she fell off the bed again. Lately, she's insisting she CAN walk which is just the dementia getting worse. How do you stop a person from falling who insists she can walk when she's wheelchair bound? Ugh.

Just an update and a check in from me.

Oh lealonnie you are so funny. I needed a good laugh today.

I am curious about something. What does everyone think about the grey rock technique? Do you think it is applicable or effective in all situations? Have most of you had success with gray rock?

I feel that it is effective but there are exceptions such as, a person can’t walk away from a boss at work. Or if a son or daughter is taking a parent to a doctor appointment, and a parent starts acting up, you can’t cancel the doctor appointment at the last minute.

Narcs will destroy all relationships if given half of a chance, such as siblings, a spouse, Sadly, some people have had narc spouses, friends, neighbors, coworkers or bosses. I think having a narc boss would be extremely challenging! Your job is your livelihood. Most people can’t quit until they have another job lined up.

Good question, I find myself in same position now caregiving for recently diagnosed father with dementia. Who now has become verbally abusive every time I step in the door. Sadly pretty much he was that way, just amplified more.

Lea, your post made me smile also! It seems you are approaching your mother's constant demands with great gusto! I have to admire you for it and for your energy! NHWM, gray rock has worked for me with my mother. I agree though that you cannot use it in all situations, but when you can it can save you an awful lot of emotional energy. Sorry I haven't been around much lately. I have a lot on with various things at the moment, with not much personal free time right now. Hope to resume normal service again soon!

Chris, seems DH and I got sick from some food we ate last night so we weren't allowed inside the MC when I told the CG we were running late due to feeling poorly. SHUCKS!! 😂 I was able to drop off The Nightgowns and confirm The Snacks from Amazon DID indeed arrive and a box of Ferrero Rocher nut covered chocolates were sitting in her room at that precise moment. According to mom, the sons of bi$%hes CGs told her there we NO snacks for her at all. Soon there will be aliens coming by to snatch her up in their spaceships, too, dontcha know.

Fact Check Everything when dementia is involved, that my free advice for the day. Glad I could make you smile EB and Chris 😁. How's your NM doing in her managed care place these days? Is she still hoarding fresh fruit?

Nhwm, sometimes gray rock works with NM, sometimes it doesn't. It obviously cannot be utilized in a work environment unless you want to be fired! But with an NM, the technique throws them for a loop and is good sometimes. I've gotten pretty good at keeping the phone calls SUPER short and the weekly visits at 45 min to 1 hr max, so my aggravation level is dwindling as NMs dementia is increasing.

Lea and Chris,

I agree, gray rock isn’t feasible for every situation. I do agree that it is helpful in many circumstances.

I have an elderly neighbor who is ‘very curious’ about a couple who lives down the street. That’s her description of it, haha 😆. She will ask me questions about them. I put it all back on her by telling her, “Why are you asking me personal questions about them?” Her pat answer is, “Oh, I am just curious.” Personally, I call it being nosey! I started walking in the opposite direction when she is outside. She drives me crazy with her questioning. All I want to do is go for a peaceful walk in my neighborhood.

I don’t feel any obligation to speak with her. Some people drive their own kids away, then are obnoxious to anyone else who will listen to them.

I guess every neighborhood has nosey people in it.