Caregiving for a narcissistic mother. Do we do it out of love or out of years of guilt and programming?

Here's a good one.

Last Friday my DH had enough of the BS and went over to my mom's to talk to her. I had no idea what he was going to say, and he is very blunt in general but off he went. Well one of the first things he told her was that if things don't change then WE are moving and he specifically told her where making it clear that discussions were indeed taking place.

That must have shocked her because she did a complete turn around. I got an apology, an "I love you" and she has agreed to a companion aid 4 hours a week.

I'm going online later to look for an aid. Really hope this works out.

Of course my update has to include another zinger too. She also made an appointment with a local back surgeon for this week. As soon as we had our "truce" she asked me to fill out the new patient paperwork. I knew this opiate thing was looming too. I'm letting the doctor handle that 100%.

NHWM- I need to be better at grey-rock but when I can manage to do it with my mom I do think it helps. I will never be in another relationship with a narcissist again, EVER. They truly are the worst people to deal with, and I personally think there needs to be much more awareness with elder narcs. They need a special kind of care-giving that prevents them from abusing people.

Lea your mom's lies are so outrageous it reads like a comedy, even though I know she drives you insane. My mom lies all the time too. Makes me wonder if she's been a willful liar all her life and I didn't catch them or if it's the dementia? Either way it's hard to deal with. I'm really dreading the false accusation stage, and hope my mom doesn't start with that BS.

Lea, sorry to read that you and DH were ill yesterday, but hey, sounds like that particular cloud had a silver lining! 😉 Since you ask, my mother seems to be taking less fruit than she was, now that there have been comments made about it. The "Princess" behaviour continues though. She has latched onto a fellow resident, a chap who is a good 20 years younger than her, to run around and basically do things for her that she can't be bothered to do for herself. She has always been good at identifying people, usually men, as she can play the "poor female" card and appeal to their sense of chivalry. I am also quite cross with her as today the UK has (wrongly in my opinion) lifted all remaining Covid restrictions, including mandatory mask wearing. Typically, mother says as she finds masks bothersome she (selfishly) won't be wearing them, even though the general advice is to do so. She did go very quiet though when I pointed out that all of the shops she likes will still ask shoppers to mask up. NHWM, shame you are being bothered by a nosy neighbour. I expect they could be lonely and just want a chat, but you are entitled to some personal space during your walk. And EP, sounds like DH laid down the law and so you are enjoying some sweeter behaviour at the moment. I hope it lasts, but we know what these people are like. We are forever on guard and watchful for the return of bad behaviour during these "good" phases.

Piper,

I like your hubby’s style with your mom! Hahaha 😆

Feel better, Lea. The last thing that you and your husband need is to feel crappy on top of everything else.

Thanks, Chris. My neighbor can be bothersome at times. You would think that someone would stop their behavior when they see an annoyed look on your face. Nope! Then she says stupid crap like, “Don’t be annoyed with me. I care about everyone else so much.” She doesn’t care. She’s minding everyone’s business.

Or the statement that really gets under my skin is, “Honey, I look at you like my own daughter,” When she said this to me shortly after my mom died and I couldn’t handle it. I snapped back. “Well, you are not my mom. I had a mom and she’s dead now.” I realize that sounds sarcastic or rude but her comments will rub me the wrong way at times.

She sits on her porch and watches to see who she can pump for information. All of my neighbors are great people accept for this woman.

Oh boy Need. I know what you mean about noisy neighbors and the dumb comment about "I look at you like my own daughter". Glad you snapped back and she deserved it. How insenitive of her.

EB,

They try pulling the passive aggressive crap and it’s so insulting to our intelligence. Do they really think that we are so dumb, that we don’t see through their tactics?

I do appreciate that this is a ‘safe’ thread to vent!

Need,I have a neighbor like that so we fixed her good. One day I told her we were moving and leaving most of the stuff behind. I hired a cleaning garage crew so she saw the UHaul in the driveway. Within minutes she told the entire neighborhood.My mother lived on the street her entire married life so most of the town knows our house of three generations. I went out one day and niece was at home. She saw a couple peaking in our front windows, looking at the furniture. My niece looked out the window at them and they left immediately. She talked to the woman and asked why she was looking in our windows. She said she was looking at the house next door. Now we just close the blinds when we leave. I talked to the neighbor that I told we were moving and said it was a joke and asked her how many neighbors did she tell and she had the nerve to say nobody. I tend to stay far away from niosy neighbors and gossip type peole but this time I could not resist playing a joke on her.

EB,

That’s so funny! 🤣

Chris, these NMs seem to LOOoooove men, don't they? I will never forget my mother giggling like a schoolgirl right after my father died b/c the man across the hall in her ALF suggested (she said, anyway) that she go on a CRUISE with him! Disgusting. She still bats her eyelashes whenever a man passes by her!

The mask mandate around here has been lifted since April and nobody wears them anywhere, except some medical facilities which still require them. Good riddance is what I have to say!

EB, good joke you played on your nosy neighbors!

NHWM, we're ok today, thank you! Spent a while getting the spare bedroom set up. Stepdaughter #1 is coming on Thurs for 4 days and then Stepdaughter #2 is coming the following week with our granddaughter (who's a giant brat) for 4 days. Yay, she says sarcastically. I just love company. Not. SD #1 is fine but #2 and the brat she is raising I just do not particularly like. She's the only one of DHs kids I don't have a soft spot for in my heart, and the child is out of control. Her behavior is horrid with a capital H yet mommy says it's perfect. Yes, she is One of Those Mothers Whom Everyone Despises. The "Not MY Child" mother. The kid bites other kids in school but she's 'just fooling around'. Oh yeah? My kid comes home with a HUMAN bite from a kid who's 'just fooling around' and we'll see how much sh*t hits the fan! She just got asked to leave a cooking class for horrid behavior and get a refund, but mommy said NO, she will STAY in the class b/c she likes it! Nice, huh? UGH.

Lea: Glad that you and your DH are feeling better.

Lea I feel you on the 8 days of company 😬 Is SD#2's child's dad in the picture? Just curious why she lets the kid act out the way she does? That's really sad because it ends up alienating the kid when people start avoiding them because of their bad behavior.

This might be a poor analogy but in a way it's not much different than dealing with elders. If they are pleasant, kind and respectful they get A LOT more company and attention than the ones who are always nasty and people avoid (like my mom).
Somebody should subtly mention that FACT around your SD2 and maybe she will take the hint and help her daughter act more appropriate.

I'm about to go back online looking for a companion. So far no luck because it's only 4 hours a week. I'm also going to call around and look for other resources. I want to get this rolling as soon as I possibly can.

I think I might have found an aid! We've been messaging this morning, and are going to talk this afternoon to set up a meeting. She is local to me and seems like a good fit so far. One 4 hour day works good for her once her kids start school in a couple weeks.

Fingers crossed 🤞

EP: SD#2 is divorced from her DH but he's still in the picture. Nobody can talk to her about ANYTHING, she's that closed off. 29 y/o and never had a job! Lives off the DH's alimony & child support & he pays the mortgage! She hikes & hangs out professionally, that's about it. When they came here 2 years ago, the child slammed the door in my face and nearly caught my fingers in the door of the bedroom. I was livid. The mother says laughingly, oh that's not nice! She was so rude and awful to me, but mommy thought it was funny. When I told her the bad behavior was A BIT MUCH, she had a meltdown! We'll see how things go this time around. I'm not hopeful, to be honest. And you are 100% right with the analogy about the elders, too. You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar and IMO, it's a parent's job to teach a child RESPECT for their elders and how to act civilized in general FFS.

GOOD LUCK with the interview this afternoon for the aid for NM!! Fingers crossed!!

Thank you Llamalover!

EP.

Yay! I hope she’s the one!

Lea,

Wow! You had a right to be upset. Don’t blame you one bit for mentioning that this behavior was ‘a bit much.’

Do you find this to be a more common attitude now than in the past? I do. Parenting has changed. I realize that we are always evolving as a society. Shouldn’t certain rules be timeless, such as respecting others?

I don’t know about you, but we got a swat on the butt for misbehaving, or a ruler smacked on our wrist by a nun at school.. That either caused a kid to behave or in some cases, kids rebelled.

My parents certainly didn’t ‘abuse’ us. This was customary at the time. I actually found a swat on my butt less painful than if I was told that I couldn’t hang out with my friends. I am NOT saying that we should go back to physically hitting children. I don’t think that behavior should be laughed off though.

I was taught to respect my parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, godparents, teachers, neighbors, basically any adult in our lives, but my mom was extremely fair by showing me that we as children were to be respected too.

I will never forget that my sixth grade teacher treated me horribly because my oldest brother had misbehaved in her class. I had straight A’s in her class and this teacher was terribly mean to me, even though I had never misbehaved in her class.

My mom went to see this teacher and said, “Please don’t treat my daughter unfairly. Yes, my son misbehaved in your class and he deserved to be disciplined, but my daughter has been a good student with good behavior since kindergarten.” After my mom spoke to my teacher, I didn’t have any further problems with her.

Your point about showing others respect is so dead on! We have all been surprised when children aren’t disciplined, especially when parents think that the behavior is cute.

Need, I loved the nuns, but when I was in first grade a mean nun use to wack my fingers so I would write with my right hand. She was not at all successful with her method. I was determined to use my left hand. I write with my left hand to this day.I never told on the nun. The nuns were strict in those days but I had a great education.
My mother was easygoing and my dad was the strict one. I came home late one night around 2am I was only seventeen and he was waiting up for me he told me never come home late like that again. I never did until I was over 21. My mother insisted on respecting others. She always had a good word for everyone and if she could not say something nice or postive about a person she would not say anything. She was a great role model for our family. I never got hit as a kid by my parents. When dad was home we told the mark. He was pretty easy going in a lot of ways, though.

EB,

Most of my teachers were fantastic. It was just that one exception in sixth grade. I was paying for my brother’s sins! LOL I suppose that she expected me to behave like he did but when I went home upset and my mom asked me what was wrong, she went to the school and had a talk with her. I really appreciated that.

True, we did receive a good education. My grandparents never raised their hands with my mom. My father’s family did spank him. So, my dad was the one who felt that he had to follow suit. My mom would tell him that he didn’t have to swat us. He eventually stopped.

Both of my parents were about equal in discipline. I think a big expression back then was, “Wait until your father gets home!” Some moms felt it was the father’s responsibility to dole out the discipline. It’s an interesting take. I don’t necessarily agree with this approach. but it was a common method in that era.

Lea: You're very welcome.💚

My second grade teacher hit me on my hand with a ruler "to get me out of my shell." I was painfully shy and her method FAILED!
Early, sorry for what you went through also.

Llama.

Wow! I am sorry about your teacher hitting you. I guess a lot of us were smacked by rulers back then. Some teachers were very misguided back then. Nowadays it would be reported as child abuse, right? It doesn’t send the correct message to children.

I was shy as a child too. I believe my shyness was a distinct part of my personality, but also because of the dysfunction that existed in my family. It was incredibly confusing for me to grow up with a brother who had substance abuse issues.

It was a ‘hush hush’ era. There were no outlets back then to discuss anything. My parents didn’t know how to handle it. They felt shame, even though it wasn’t their fault. My parents didn’t even drink. My brother hooked up with the wrong crowd and caved into peer pressure. My mom told us not to speak a word to anyone. I am so glad that there are support groups now and therapy for children now. That wasn’t common when I was a child.

EB,

Isn’t is weird how ‘lefties’ were treated then? Do you remember the penmanship drills in school? Of my gosh! They were perfectionists when it came to handwriting skills.

Need: Yes, your statement is correct - it would have been reported as child abuse in today's society. I do understand why you were shy as a child; that is painful, isn't it? Your poor parents not having any group support for your brother because it didn't exist then must have been difficult.
When my father died when I was barely 20, I had an immediate change as my mother needed me. I was no longer withdrawn/shy. I was a completely different person. So yes, out of tradegy came some triumph; I don't mean that to sound callous.
The teacher's name was Shirley and I immediately disliked her, to say the least.

NeedHelp,
My older brother had a drug problem back in the sixties. I was only sixteen and felt very sad for him. We were close. I remember going to bed and crying over it and very confused. I also remember my mother looking for my brother late at night His so called friends were all drugged up smoking pot or on some drug. My mother was brave and very supportive. She would leave the door open and save his meals on the stove. Back then there was not much help or treatment. My mother deciided to tell my dad after some time passed and he told my brother either drug friends or join the Navy. He entered the Navy at eighteen and turned around within two years. He went to college, majored in English, had his own newpaper service, later became a teacher. I was proud of him. He was always so smart I was so surprised he used drugs. I looked up to him when I was a kid. We had a stable environment with loving parents.

Llamalover47,

I had years of Catholic school abuse at the hands of the sisters.
Not just hitting but psychological and emotional as well.
What the sisters often used as their weapon of choice was ostracizing. They would call a kid out in front of everyone else and encourage their classmates to bully and ridicule them.
None of this would fly in any school today and that's good progress.

I can't remember a lot of my childhood but one memory that is burned in my brain is that of Sister Mirium Michael getting right in the FACE of this girl sitting next to me in my class, we were about 8 years old. She screamed at the top of her lungs "I'm speaking Alicia! But YOU would do ANYTHING to talk to a BOY!!" totally humiliating the girl and the boy next to her and terrifying everyone else. I could feel her breath she was so close to our faces.

Yeah- that would NEVER fly today but it's crazy what nun's used to get away with while being "teachers".

I remember in 8th grade a boy in our class was spanked with what they called a Board of Education paddle right in front of the class and it happened quite frequently. He would pout and get red in the face. I always liked Jimmy and felt bad for him. I guess his mother gave permission.I was a quiet kid and respectful but I was still afraid of that board that hung near the nuns desk.

Oh, yes! We all had good teachers and at least one bad one! Sometimes. more than one.

Well. like I mentioned earlier. I was always grateful to my mom for going to speak to my sixth grade teacher because my teacher automatically assumed that I would act up like my brother had in her class.

When my daughter had a couple of crappy teachers, I did the same as my mom did. Later on, I found out from another mom who attended the same church with her, that her husband committed a ‘white collar’ crime and was going to jail. She was so distraught over her husband that she was taking it out on her fourth grade class! My daughter was coming home with stomach aches every single day, after dealing with this teacher.

EB,

I am happy things worked out well for your brother. Mine wasn’t as fortunate. He made a few attempts, even owned a successful business at one time. Sadly, he did not beat his demons in the end.

Yeah, I loved him as my brother and we were close at certain times. I was only about 7 when he started using. So, it was horribly confusing to me at such a young age.

BurntCaregiver: Wow! How horrible! That was really bullying that the nuns did - the calling out and other things. I'm so sorry.