Did Hospice rush your loved ones death?

Thank you vstefans I would sure like to bring my moms perpetrators to justice. She was fine until she was overdosed for no reason at all. She was so severely overdosed which caused her so many complications. Then when she would go to try and get help in the hospital she would get severely drugged again. That is all they did in the hospital where she originally got her minor elective surgery. They never did help her just continued to hurt her so severely and killed her.

vsefans, just read the article from the Washington Post. Very interesting and horrifying at the same time. I do believe many of these horror stories and feel the problem mostly lies with the "for profit" hospices. Very strict procedures are required to be followed for Medicare patients so somewhere along the line some records must be falsified.
Why am I not surprised?tThere is a great deal of money to be made for from dying patients especially if you admit them when they are reasonably healthy and stop regular medications. They need very little in the way of expensive equipment or staff time. OK so the RN pops in once a week and documents her visit. It certainly makes sense not to have them survive beyond 6 months. Medicare will ask questions about that.
A not for profit hospice relies mostly on Medicare and some private pay depending on the area. True, Medicare only does an inspection every few years but I promise you those inspectors go over the records with a fine tooth comb and accompany the nurses on their visits. Not for profits have to use volunteers for a specified number of hours and much of the ongoing expenses are raised with fundraisers and endowments. Of course there a bad apples in every basket but a nurse would not go to work for a non profit hospice where the pay is about half that of a general hospital.
I have said many times on this thread check things out before you allow your loved one to be enrolled in hospice and if you don't like the treatment you can throw them out.
It is true that strong drugs are used and needed at the end of life and should never be used in such doses that unwelcome side effects are seen.
Many times close to the end pain does get out of control and higher than usual doses of drugs like morphine may be needed. No medication can be given without the Dr's authorization, that would cost a nurse her license. Anti anxiety and anti psychotic drugs are also used when indicated, they will cause drowsiness that has to be understood but the alternative is to have a loved one confined to a mental institution when he becomes too combative at home where he and you want him to stay.
All drugs have side effects on some people and many are not advised for use with the elderly because they are more likely not to be able to eliminate them if their livers or kidneys are functioning poorly (wearing out) for this reasons if the drug is necessary a smaller dose may be tried and the patient closely monitored. this applies to any older adult not just the dying.
No one wants to loose a beloved family member or friend and it is a very emotional and frightening time.
One of the stages of grieving is "anger"
You can not bring them back but if you feel they were wronged it is certainly in everyones interest to bring the perpetrators to justice so they may not harm anyone else.

@flogo - I am trying to find a good organized group for you to get more information and contribute to the effort to prevent overmedication and inappropriate medication.
One sits is healthinaging and they also have a foundation. Phillips Lifeline has a piece on the subject here too: . I am not quite finding what I want, but I'll keep trying. I think the main thing is not to just advocate against specific drugs that have legitimate uses - both Haldol and Ativan can be used appropriately in different circumstances and ought not to be off the market - but against an approach that ignores patient's wishes, needs for individualized management including lower doses and non-pharmacologic options.

OK - here you go: check this out, I think it is what you are talking about:
I found the link through patientsrightscouncil. One of the keys is advocating for people to really take care in writing their advanced directives to try to make sure they get the approach to symptoms that they want.

flowgo this forum is a support group for caregivers. If you took care of your Mom you were a caregiver. If the moderators felt you should not be posting they would have asked you to leave.
You have every right to express your opinion on any of the threads you choose.
Haldol is a powerful antipsychotic but also has antiemetic properties and 50 years ago when vomiting was the norm following anesthesia it was very helpful. modern anesthetics are vastly improved so vomiting is not usual these day.
Ativan is a very useful antianxiety medication and one of the drugs of choice for treatment of terminal anxiety. Both of those medications have long lists of side effects and should be used with caution in the elderly. Again in the elderly and dying it is possible that they will have the opposite effect to that desired.
Your feelings express that your mother suffered a wrongful death. You have the options to take legal action against the Dr who ordered the drugs and report his/her conduct to the state licencing board (Think Michael Jackson and Propothal) and initiate police action.
You feel you are warning caregivers against using these drugs for end of life care.
I feel you are frightening many people whose loved ones would benefit from the comfort they bring for symptoms Pam describes. FYI Pam nursed her young adult daughter till her death with a brain tumor and was very appreciative of the availability of these drugs to ease her daughters suffering.
You certainly have a right to your concerns and feelings but even if your mothers death was actually precipitated by her treatment by medical staff the anger you are feeling rightly or wrongly would be helped with some counciling.
Now I am sure i have made you very angry once again but that is far from my intention which is to reassure caregivers that the judicious use of certain medications at the end of life are a blessing.

Veronica91 When I signed up here it asked about if I am a caregiver not if I
was a caregiver.There was no choice for being a caregiver, so I checked the active caregiver. Then I explained a little about how I was a caregiver and told about how my mom needed a caregiver when she was trying to recover from the deadly sedatives that she was overdosed on. She would start to get better then get complications from the overdoses only to get overdosed as she was in hospital recovering from the previous overdose.

Veronica91 When I signed up here it asked about, if I am a caregiver not if I
was a caregiver.There was no choice for being a past caregiver, so I checked the active caregiver. Then I explained a little about how I was a caregiver and told about how my mom needed a caregiver when she was trying to recover from the deadly sedatives, that she was overdosed on. She would start to get better then get complications from the overdoses only to get overdosed as she was in hospital recovering from the previous overdose.

My dad was in hospice and in a hospital for cancer and got very good treatment.That was in a different town then than my mom was. They helped him out even when he was dying. They never once overdosed him or forced him to die.They just helped with care so he can remain comfortable. It was the difference between night and day of how my dad was cared for and how my mom was forced to die in a hospital.It was not even a mercy killing, cause she would have to have been terminal to do a mercy killing.Dad died naturally. Mom was forced to die when she was no where near ready to die. They put her in the condition she was in, must have been because she lived past her life expectancy cause I have know idea why else they forced her to die with so many overdoses that she should have never had. I could understand giving someone the wrong meds and even not doing their job right and not looking at the chart, but when you tell the nurse that is on duty not to give the deadly sedatives then why on earth would they be given.

To veronica and pamsteqma, Would you two prefer me to keep this to myself and not let anyone know what can really happen. The only time I became her caregiver was when she was detoxing. She needed a caregiver at that time cause she was so overdosed to the point of near death. I tried to help her detox but every time she got complications from the overdoses and we went back to the hospital hoping to get some help. The medical staff would automatically overdose her again.This is even after the nurses and I talked about her reaction to these drugs in great length and it was listed on her chart. The overdoses are even written on her records and the investigators also found out that she should have not had any of those sedatives, yet she was getting enough to kill and do severe damage and enough to cause her to go unconscious. Any other person would have died on any one of those overdoses that she got, but she was a very strong healthy woman. They were not supposed to give her any because she had a bad reaction to it. There was so many horrible things that happened that I would have to write a book.She was killed, I have been obsessed about learning all about everything that my mom was put through, so now I am even more knowledgeable,about the medical field and I have learned that other people have had the same experience that we had.Yes I am very traumatized over what the medical staff did to her, with good reason. it is beyond belief, but this happens to often. I try to get the word out to as many people as I can.Hopefully if enough people know about it, some how it may help prevent it from happening so much. We are not the only ones this happens to. That would have been enough, but there are many more people who this happens to.It needs to stop.At least I can make others aware of what can happen to their loved ones. My mom was a good person who loved to help people. Her life was cut short in such a horrific tragic way that should have never ever happened to anyone. When I get the word out It helps me somewhat in trying to recover over the grief that I have over what happened to her. I'm sure she is appreciating me trying to make a difference.I wish I could do more. Maybe someday.

My mother's passing ended up to be fairly quick and I would say a she had a good death. Our experience with hospice did not go well on all accounts. At 90, she had been seen by a cardiologist and later had a heart attack and spent a few days in the hospital. We were referred to hospice at discharge. Hospice came to the home and determined my mom did not meet their criteria for hospice. She was having a good day - up dressed, chatty, lipstick on, etc. Two weeks later she was very very ill and I called the hospice number and begged for a nurse to come to the home. She came and I explained my mom was not usually the way she was when the nurse arrived. I even told her that shortly before she arrived my mom said she felt as though she had a stroke. The nurse checked her out and said she would call the next day. I explained how I felt I was between a rock and a hard place. How do I honor my mother's wishes to die at home and yet have no support and guidance in how to do that. I was lost and I knew she was dying . Four hours later the medics were at my home, she was admitted to the hospital and died three days later. The head of hospice for the hospital came to me and said she never should have been denied hospice and they would be investigating internally. He said her cardiologist, a very respected one at that, had directed her to hospice and they should have based everything off of that - not her appearance on the day they came to the home. He explained many people on hospice are at the grocery store pushing a cart, but they are dying all the same. Ultimately, my mama had a good death and I am thankful for that and our experience. But, that hospice group left me high and dry and lost.

flowgo, Veronica has a point, you state she is dead and then state she is detoxing. Please contact your MD, because something is making you very confused. Your depression and confusion really warrant medical attention. Some grief counseling would be really helpful. Just a suggestion.

Flogo, I am confused. I read your posts then checked your profile. your profile states that your mother is dead and that you attribute that death to drugs unjustifiably administered in a hospital but at the same time you state that you are caring for your mother while she detoxes.
You or someone else if you were not POA can request a copy of Mom's medical records from the hospital, take them to a malpractice lawyer who will have them reviewed by a medical specialist to see if anything improper was done. make sure to request nursing noted and medication orders. Do you have a medical background.
I understand your distress but it is hard to understand the circumstances if you are not there 24/7 and part of the team. i also agree that everyone for their own and loved ones sakes should educate themselves about drugs and other treatments and not allow MDs to go on fishing expeditions when no treatment can be safely given. A few more months as a vegetable is not living.

for rossie 123 I'm very sorry for your loss. I do wonder if he was getting haldol or adivan in the nursing home before he went to the hospital or even in the hospital because these sedatives can make the ammonia levels high and can cause a person to become combative or make them more combative. It causes all kinds of problems especially if they are having a reaction to them.These are the strongest drugs yet they are used on elders. The black box warnings clearly state that these drugs are not for elders especially with dementia or children. It sounds like he was having a reaction to the sedatives which can be fatal.There are just to many elders dying from the wrong drugs like sedatives.This is why I am on here to warn people of how deadly these kind of drugs are for elders.They will give them even when the person is already unconscious no wonder there are so many overs doses. They arel given in nursing homes, residents are often tricked in to taking them or they have put them in the ice cream. I understand why so many residents don't want to take any meds in nursing homes, they are scared of being so severely drugged. To many times patients die from drug overdoses but the staff will tell family it was natural causes like a stroke or heart attack old age etc. An overdose can cause a stroke or a heart attack or if a person has dementia or even if they don't, the staff can say they died because they are deteriorating. Haldol and adivan can also cause a delayed reaction, the person may not fall unconscious right away. It may happen later. I do think that more autopsies should be done.

To pamsteqma What kind of meds haldol or adivan why give haldol and adivan when there are others that will not kill like those do. Haldol and adivan are passed out like candy among the elderly or young with heart problems dementia and other problems. These sedatives say that they are not for the elderly or people with heart problems or people with dementia yet they are given to all to young and old with heart problems, or to other people that cant take them its crazy. At some hospitals they are given to elders automatically as they enter a hospital and even haldol cocktails. I find this quite disturbing.

flowgo, the meds relieve the agonal arching of the back and tremors in limbs and gasping and gurgling, which are not fun to watch either. They relieved the frightening hallucinations and the pain. I was there. I saw it. I gave the meds. I was glad I had them to give.

Shellgreen1 are you talking about animals not suffering when they are put down. If so putting people down with overdosing is really bad, cause what would happen if they are able to get well and they are put down with an overdose. Actually there is plenty of pain management that can work when a person is suffering, I myself do not believe that the medical staff should be allowed to play G....d and put a person down. That really should not be their job especially since there is pain management that does not kill. I strongly believe that the medical staff should never ever have that right to put a person down.

My mum suffered from stage 4 breast cancer. We cared for her at home for a year as she was reluctant to access the hospices services. She couldn't eat for many weeks and stopped drinking to the point where she was very weak. We had no choice but to take her to the local hospice. The staff there were amazing with the family and took very good care of her. My mum became confused and slowly unresponsive within a couple of days so I feel sure if was the drugs. That said my mum way at the end of her journey and I believe would have died a long painful death so I am God the drugs were there to help her. No one should have to suffer the way she did. As a race we do not allow animals to suffer in this way.

I have the exact same question flowgo.

What I'm wondering about is why would some one who is healthy just elderly but still healthy be put into hospice. Actually the hospital gave her such a haldol overdose that it put her into a coma where she was not given the chance to wake up from. She was in the coma for 2 weeks. Then she was put in hospice and was gone. This was after a simple procedure which went well until the the haIdol and adivan was given.I have heard about so many elders who are killed by haldol and adivan . I am so curious why it is still allowed to be used.

Thank you for a wonderful post I do indeed hope it helps others with their loved ones final care.
In many ways the stroke and heat attack were blessings in disquise because they saved him from a much worse death and final quality of life from the pancreatic cancer. It was a great shock and will take a while to get used to the idea of this but my best wishes go out to you

I recently lost my only brother (68 yrs old) to a stroke and heart attack brought on by chemothepary he was on for Stage 4 Pancreatic Cancer. He was in hospice only 2 days when he passed. My brother was a medical doctor and appeared quite healthy up till his diagnosis for Pancratic Cancer and follow-on chemothepary treatments that ultimately triggered the stroke. It was a left brain injury so he lost his speech, language, ability to eat, etc.. and he went down quickly and was very agitated till medicated with adavan & morphinewhich started in the hospital . Hospice also continued use of morphine and adavan in progressive doses to keep him comfortable and he did pass quietly. From his diagnosis till death was 10 weeks and yes I'm stunned, confused, and angry because he got the disease and is gone. He lived a clean life no smoking, no working with hazardous materials, only ocasional drinking of beer or wine. He volunteered his time to help others. Father died at age 95 and grandfather died at 98 so this was totally not expected. Reagrdless, the hospice folks did a fantastic job especially helping us handle this very unexpected event and provide comfort for my brother in his last hours. Fortunately my brother had clearly and properly stated his desires for DNR and other restrictions so all we had to do was comply with his wishes. Since I like to think I can usually fix things the idea of giving up was difficult to accept but based on the sum total of all the problems death was happening and all that was in question focused on level of pain that the medications handled. I'm still processing the whole emotional experience but one thing is for sure...hospice did a great job and honored my brothers wishes. Hope this post helps someone else dealing with this type of situation. I now know I have to get my own paperwork (living will and medical predirectives, etc..) in order so as to not leave the decisions to others so they feel guilty.

My mom's hospice doctor wasn't incredible or even caring.never made one house visit and only saw her a hen I admitted her to the hospital only to find out she had a slew of problems that the nurses poorly assessed on their visits..I'm sorry but everyone experiences aren't the same nor are hospices and how they do things...So for those who had great hospice care you were blessed....For those like me you can only go off of what the nurses tell you and hope they have your loved one's best interest at heart.

Purplegirl firstly I am so sorry for your loss. Having lost my Father on the 20th March this year I do feel your pain.

You have every right to be here and express your opinion of course and if it helps to express anger, if that is what you truly feel I actually support you doing it but I have to counter with a positive perspective of Hospice care and can’t agree you saying things like Hospice Doctors and easy money, it just wouldn’t be right.

I am in the UK which probably does make a big difference but I obviously don’t know for sure.

My father’s hospice Doctor was nothing short of incredible in terms of professionalism but genuinely one of the nicest people I have ever met. Personally I will always be grateful for what I perceived to be incredible care shown towards my Dad but most importantly that he eased his suffering. That is after all what we all most fear for our loved ones and ourselves I guess. I can’t speak highly enough him and am not embellishing in the facts in order to make a point when I say I witnessed tears well up in his eyes whilst talking to my Dad two days before he passed. They had developed a really good friendship during those last week’s which was by no means an easy feat, my Dad being the way he was (often cantankerous and very particular about who he did and didn’t warm to) but it was the Doctors persistence and efforts to go over and above what was required of him in my opinion that won my Dad over. He knew he liked sports for example so he’d always know the latest news about Dad’s soccer team when visiting with him and so on.

He also struck up a very good friendship with my Mom which she now speaks about with fondness and immense appreciation. She will always be grateful for the amount of information he gave her, how accurate it was, the way in which he explained everything, and the obvious care he had for my Dad and that he did not suffer unnecessarily.

I can speak equally has highly in fact more so of the many Hospice nurses their professionalism, care and friendship they gave my Mom and Dad in the last weeks of his life.

You mention your Mom’s agitation towards the end which I know only too well to be a particularly distressing thing to witness. It seemed cruel to me that my Dad should be agitated at all in what were his last days of life. A highly intelligent man I found his sudden bouts of confusion and the struggle to keep him bedbound and safe which seems such a strange thing to say, heart breaking. I was and will always be forever grateful however that this was dealt with quickly and his anxieties eased ‘all be it’ via medication. Whereas I acknowledge these drugs might well have sooner bought about his death I cannot imagine prolonging what I now ‘rightly or wrongly’ believe to be one of the stages of the dying process.

I allowed myself once or twice to contemplate what if but my Dad was terminal, beyond treatment. When considering the what ifs you have to take on board all the facts and the one fact staring you right in the face is that… he is dying. No matter how much I didn’t want that to be true it was. If you find yourself in this position I believe you must try as quickly as possible to accept it to because once you do you might stop beating yourself up. You have enough to deal with without guilt. Your loved one would not want it, you don’t need it. It’ll become another obstacle to get over, something that will get in the way of you starting to move on which you must.

If you loved them and believe that they loved you do not do them or their memory the disservice of saddling yourself with guilt. Lashing out or placing blame at or with others who are ultimately guilty of nothing but trying to help ease their suffering won’t in the short or long term make you feel any better or change anything.

Whatever you believe a life lived however it ended should be celebrated and remembered with love and affection. Tinged with sadness yes, always but that is all. Inevitably that love is all we are left with and it is that love, that last gift that will keep them with us, always. Accept it by allowing it to fill your heart free from anger, guilt, vengefulness, bitterness and hopefully eventually sadness.

They did not want to suffer and they don’t want you to now.

Again I offer my sincere condolences for your loss and hope you find peace.

Oh and I left this out..that Friday her social worker called me and said her symptoms were managed and they were going to find a nursing home and we needed to meet that Monday becsuse myself and significant other couldnt manage taking care of her at home she needed round the clock..but she died early Sat Morning....the social worker never called me or a grieveing counselor or her nurse who called me 3 days in a row 2-3 days before she did...lets not start on hospice doctors...easy money.

Cwillie she suffered from the day they put a 4 inch meyal stent in her in Feb until her passing...a horrible thing to witness...my heart is broken...and so was hers she never accepted her diagnosis and died scared.

Purplegirl, my heart breaks for you, I am so sorry. Sometimes the desire to live is just not enough. My brother certainly didn't want to die and leave his young family behind, but his cancer was just too great and enemy to defeat. It sounds like your mom suffered greatly in her final weeks and they were doing everything they could to control her symptoms. I am so grateful my brother was able to sleep away his final days. It sounds like your mom was physically more comfortable at the end, try to see that as the blessing it was, and let go.

Glad a PCA is patient controlled analgesia. It is given through an IV and the patient has something to press when ever they feel the pain is bad enough. It is a set dose and usually can only be activated at a set time usually every 20 minutes. About 20 minutes is the estimated time IV meds are expected to work. The Dr sets the dose and of course can increase if not effective. often used after major surgery. Gives the patient more control and is less time consuming for the staff. Patients like it because they feel more in control. never offered to me but if pain became too bad between regular pain meds there was always something else they could give for immediate relief. You are up early Glad!

Purple, what is PCA? Too early here to figure it out.

I also noticed they had stopped giving her fluids in the hospital but yet wasnt giving her fluids by mouth....she had a tray full of liquids when we would get to the hospital...they were dropping it off but no one was giving it to her.....she couldnt walk and her speech came to a halt except for one word.

Oh and she never made it to chemo because hospice did a poor job in managing her symptoms...they took on a case they couldnt handle. And some may ask why did I leave her on it because doctors could careless and I was afraid they wouldnt be able to control her pain. She was on a pca.

I feel like they did the same to my mom. I question her death and still do. She died last Saturday....right before mothers day...she was on hospice. when she found out she cancer she immediately went under hospice.. she was in severe pain and sick everytime she ended up in the hospital. The hospital advised that because legally they can only give her soo much morphine in the hospital, hospice however could give more. She was going to try chemo while on hospice to handle the symptoms and hey if it killed a few cells...even better...she was on continuous stream 60 mgs morphine with a few extra in between per hour. We assumed the pain was somewhat controlled you never could tell. She was vomiting everything up...especially bile...Their suggestions was give her lorazepam for everything. Then it was haldol, then it was seroquel. We gave her those meds each once or twice..she was agitated enough and after a bad reaction from Seroquel which had her behaving in a way unimaginable....i gave them a call and went off..to make a long story short..her vomiting got really bad...Their suggestions was a rectal suppository..no way..i rushed her to the hospital...after almost a week in the hospital and a half in the hospital.she passed..the last week she was extremely agitated..the last day I saw her which was a wednesday she still was. I took 2 days off from visits...Family went and checked on her that Thursday, she was calmer. Friday night...a relative stated she didnt look good and it was a matter of hours..early Saturday a.m.she was gone. I didnt get to see her before she passed...something in my heart said autopsy..but I didnt go ahead with it. Did someone give her something on the low and not tell us to speed up her process....my heart says yes...she was really fighting and then how all of a sudden she is calm one day and struggling to breath the next and gone there after?..... overall unless your family member is weeks away from dying I dont recommend it. Make your family member fight and find a doctor that has hope and faith. Hospice speeds up the process by overmedicating and keeping them on anxiety meds that has the same side affects they already have times 10 my mom didnt sleep for the last several weeks..my mom didnt pass with dignity, comfortably or with a quality of life she suffered the entire 5 months in hospice care. And died this past Saturday before Mother's day...quite ironic for someone who was still for the most part alert and agitated...I felt helpless the entire time she was under hospice care...and she was stressed out most of it...Hospice should only come in when a person is near death and doctors and hospitals should not give up on patients when they have a terminal illness..give the patient a fi g ting chance..my moms oncologist told her off the back...no matter what she does she is not going to make it....how insensitive...