My 89 year mom is in a nice AL facility that she actually chose from a tour of 3 that we researched. Shortly, after her move, she criticized every facet of it...staff, food, laundry services, beautician, residents, and more. She has congestive heart failure but has only had to be hospitalized twice in 2 years & goes to cardio every 6 months with a stable health report. She takes Eloquis which must be given correctly. She was unable to remember that while at home. She also uses a Walker.
I am the oldest daughter of 3 and am her POA. I'm also the only one who visits and brings her "needs" list, even though she is paying for many of these at her all-inclusive AL. My deceased father's pension money is being used to pay for her care and she is upset about that.
My mom is very unhappy, angry, accusatory, critical, negative, and manipulative. Many of these traits have followed her throughout life. Now, she is so disagreeable & mean that she makes up untruths about my upbringing & behaviors, hits me, & orders me to sit down, shut up, get out, and never come back! Now, she is telling me to hire an attorney to be her POA because no one else will do this besides me (per my father's request). If this is an option, I'm ready!
Lately, she is refusing some meds & is rude to the staff. She has always refused to follow their rules. She's allowed to eat breakfast in her room after manipulating the administrator. Now, she is refusing to go to dinner & gets mad if they question her. She thinks she should live alone but cannot. She cannot live with me & doesn't want to. Her money will be consumed in another 2 years but she's unaware of any financials. She threatened suicide off and on. NP has tried Buspar, but my mom claims she had a bad reaction on day 3. Xanax low dose is being given at night. Now, she's saying she doesn't want it, getting addicted. When I visit, I'm verbally abused and now physically abused. She calls my house the next day and tells my husband to straighten me out, orders me to get my @ss back over there to straighten out the staff who cannot give meds on time, and leaves messages telling me how disrespectful I am & she never wants to see me again. She has church friends who visit occasionally & probably think we are all crazy! Others call her & she tells horrible lies. Cousins visit & say she looks fine, why is she there, etc. She is well groomed, her room is beautiful, and she's on best behavior when they visit.
I am banned by her now (not the 1st time), so I'm trying again to get help from NP. The problem is my mom will know if any pill is changed or added. Her right to refuse another drug and her mental anxiety status kicks in & we have nothing to help a pitiful situation.
I'm desperately seeking advice. If I'm feeling such despair, imagine how my mom is feeling.
Has your mother had a full pysch work up? You say she sees the cardiologist for CHF, but has she had a check up with a geriatric psychologist or psychiatrist? Her behaviour is not 'normal'
What boundaries do you have in place? It sounds like your mother is riding roughshod all over you. Do you leave as soon as she gets abusive? Do you tell her that if she hits you , you will not visit? When she threatens suicide is 911 called? Does your husband hang up on her when she called him to complain?
What would happen if you blocked her calls for a week and did not visit? How would you feel?
Being POA does not mean you have to be at her beck and call, and it never means you have to put up with abusive behaviours.
Your last line is telling, you are putting your mother's feelings ahead of your own.
I have gone a month per the NP's suggestion without seeing her as we thought it would wake her up! Then, it was Mother's Day, her birthday, and a cardio appointment. Thinking things might be better, my husband, myself, & our son wandered back over. Soon, the drama returned. She would call needing her Avon cream, Kleenex, etc. She is so unhappy, brings up loads of negativity, and evidently starts the anger & striking-back convos... why did you sell my house, I'm not going to the doctor, I want to just die, etc. On occasion, I'd take my youngest sister who has RA but seeing our mother usually meant RA flairs for her so she doesn't visit much at all.
I reported her suicide threats to AL nurse who sent a home health nurse out to talk with her, but she lashed out to me because I reported it. Her favorite line since is "I'm not crazy!"
I usually leave when I've had enough so yes, she is riding roughshod over me. Last week I got up to leave after rebuking all her bad putdowns & told her she was wrong about them. I wasn't going to hear any more of this. She grabbed the door from her recliner & with both hand wouldn't let me out. She was so strong in her angry tirade. Told me to sit down! I did not & eventually got to open door without touching her and she said if you leave, don't ever come back. I turned to shut door & she was slamming it but I buffered the slam. She's since called twice & left lengthy messages shaming me for disrespecting her & saying we just NEVER need to see one another ever! Get a lawyer to handle my business, don't come back over here because I'll refuse to see you!
I've not set boundaries because she's my mother, and I know she's not mentally well. After 2 years of waiting on her and putting up with the abuse, I'm ready to stop this nonsense.
Since she's refusing some of her meds and refusing to go to her cardio doctor, how can I get her evaluated? Do you think her NP (who she hates & who visits AL facility) could possibly get someone to come there?
Thanks so much. It means a lot to be told things I know to be true but have not faced.
Have you ever talked to an attorney about getting guardianship? Would you want to pursue that, or would rather she become, say, a ward of the State? Sometimes when elders are mentally ill and uncooperative, they will listen to others before they will listen to loved ones.
This must be heartbreaking for you, but there are many folks on this board who are in the same boat. ((((Hugs)))).
I am guardianship of her Social Security. I think that's what it's called.
I do plan to ask NP for some type of psych evaluation. Not sure AL faculty or my siblings think she needs to be institutionalized yet as they don't see exactly what I'm seeing.
In less than 2 years, her finances will be depleted and a nursing home will have to care for her. I understand tho that she has to have a need & right now, AL says she's not that bad yet. I need to research this journey.
It is difficult because it's my mom.
Thanks again, Barb.
She has always been this way, throughout her life, so I am sure you have been conditioned to ask how high when she says jump. This is what narsisistic people do to their children and spouses, if allowed.
Go to www.nefl.com and find a NELA CERTIFIED ELDER LAW ATTORNEY, they will be versed in all aspects of taking over POA and filing for Medicaid when the time comes. If you give DGPOA and HCPOA they will also request she be admitted to psychiatric ward to get her inappropriate behavior under control, however, you seem to be her hot button. She is friendly and loving with others, I was put in this situation with my dad. I told him that he wasn't going to be treating me like crap and if he went certain places with me I would walk away and never look back. This calmed him down enough that I didn't hate him when he left.
Parents seem to think they can do anything to their children and unfortunately children reinforce this behavior by not saying enough is enough. I just wanted to be given the same courtesy that they would give a stranger and if that's not possible, I choose NOT to be their scratching post.
Set boundaries and enforce them, ask your husband to not entertain her bs and seek out a good licensed fudiciary, our CELA attorney is also a licensed fudiciary. Then pass the torch as per her request.
You can't worry about what visitors think they know, you will wear yourself out worrying that they believe her lies. Tell any and all that they are welcome to take over, lock stock and barrel if they truly believe that you are not acting in your mother's best interest. Clarify that once you pass it, your done and will not accept it being passed back.
Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries and enforcement of boundaries are the only way you can survive this nonsense. She can't possibly treat you any worse and you don't have to answer your phone. She is safe and well cared for, that is your obligation and it is fulfilled. Stop being her doormat!
I've read the book Boundaries twice. Guess I'll visit it again. You all seem to be saying the same thing, so I'm going to listen & chance. I have to.
Thanks so much!
I agree with Isthisrealyreal. You are allowing this behaviour. You need to tell her when she respects you, you will be back. Ask her if she wants to die alone. Because that will happen if she doesn't change her ways.
I guess ur siblings don't have anything to do with her? They maybe the smart ones. You are a good daughter but don't need this. It will effect your health.
Siblings rarely visit. One hasn't seen her in 2 years. Other has RA & it causes her so much stress that she has flairs....inflammation & has to change her meds to the dangerous ones.
Yes, I'm depressed, stress eat, and drink.
I gotta think about me for a change. I've rarely done that in my life.
TY, JoAnn. Appreciate your help.
Just know , keep your visit time to your own comfort time, what you can deal with, not mom. When it gets stressful, you bow out. Guilt rides us, when we are children of an abusive parent , but remember your in charge now. On the phone issue, that a tough one.. I was onc told when my mom called , that I needed to stop driving get out of the car and then talk. On her temperament with the staff, same mom, I just kept telling her ,,, you know you treat the staff bad they will drop you in the shower and it will be all over....sounds harsh, but remember your in charge. They hate that ... that's why they are so mad. Ask if she can be tested for also being bipolar, mom had this along with the dementia.sure wish they had found that out when she was raising me versus now, but Once they got her Medes straightened she has a smile on her face, she may not hug me or say she loves me, but she never did.
Just a FYI , through my own experience the nicest of homes don't always have the best care. I went from high class to Medicaid eligible and she's clean, moving, involved and as happy as can be expected.
Fyi , I use to feel so bad for not bringing her home to take care of, but I had to protect my soul from more emotional abuse , I hate saying that but as soon as I realize and accepted that's what it was and why I couldn't bring her home , the more I began the healing process,
Take care , try not to stress too much .
Need to vent send me a email stephaniegoldstein1962@gmail.com
Your bipolar suggestion is something I've thought of!
My problem is how I do I get her evaluated if she refuses. In many ways, she is smarter than all of us. She never wants to leave. Recently, says she isn't going back to cardio. It's challenging to get her to consent, be ready the day of her appointment, and cooperate. She's not going to take my suggestion so I guess I talk to her NP.
The drs and AL nurses are all about the RIGHT TO REFUSE. Mom throws this out to me all the time. No cooperation whatsoever. Thx, I may email you.
If they are not a continuing care facility that will accept Medicaid then before she runs out of money a change should be implemented, this way she can stay put when she is broke.
You say dads pension is paying for her care, does that mean she has the proceeds from the sale of her house? This gives her more options if she does have a nest egg.
I read your response about correcting her and how you haven't set boundaries because she is your mom.
You will probably not like what I have to say but I am going to say it anyway. Boundaries are not about making anyone wrong, they are about YOU deciding how you wish to be treated or what you are willing to tolerate and walking away when someone treats you abusively or behaves in a manner that you are not willing to accept.
Boundaries are not a bad thing, we have them everywhere in our lives.
A speed limit is a boundary and we know that if we push past that boundary we are facing a ticket, that includes court, driving school and/or fines. Do people still do it? Yep, but when they get caught they pay the price for disregarding the boundary. It is no different with people, you set these boundaries in your head and heart and you can tell people beforehand or as they bump up against your boundaries.
Example for me, my dad and mom both want to talk crap about each other to me, I don't want to listen to it, so when it starts, I say, we are not going there, I know both of you and I don't want to hear it. When they won't stop, I will again say, we are not going there, if they are feeling special sporty and try again I say I am going to go now, talk to you later, love you bye. I do wait for them to say goodbye but if they try to get 1 last dig I hang up, boundary. Next time I talk to them it never comes up. They know that I will respond the same way every time, doesn't mean they don't want to test it occasionally.
Just because she has the title of mom, it doesn't give her free rein to be abusive. I'm a firm believer that love is what we do, not what we say. Some people beat the crap out of their "loved" one and are always saying sorry and how much they love them, until next time. This is what your mom is doing to you. That's not love, honor her wishes and get an attorney to take over. She will only stop because you aren't there to abuse.
I have a narsasist mom and dad, I understand the depths they go to, to control and manipulate and it is pretty disgusting. I choose not to be their whipping girl until they die, doesn't mean I don't love them and wish things were different, I just know if I didn't take care of me, no one would, especially not my parents. I help them but on my terms and within my boundaries, I would expect them to have boundaries if I was asking them for help.
Truly healthy relationships have boundaries, without them it is complete dysfunction.
I pray you can find a way to take care of you and turn her over to an attorney.
Point taken about AL!
House was sold. Money & father's IRA is in bank. In less than 2 years all her money will be gone...used to pay AL, meds, & insurance.
I have "corrected" her wild stories about my life, growing up and now, that she twists to make me out to be a terrible person. She says I ran away, etc. Not true. She says WE don't get along because I have Tourette's (a family member has a mild case). Craziness!
I wasn't trying to prove her wrong; I'd just reached the end of my line and set the record straight on her repeatedly ridiculous stories that she's told others. They told me in private, knowing they were untrue. I let things slide many times but I have had to defend myself when she escalates convos to brow beatings and lies. This tactic is used to pick a fight when she doesn't get her way... to move out on her own, to have me bring bread when AL has it , etc.
I know you're spot on about boundaries. I need to re-read that book and the ones mentioned above.
Thanks for the prayers. I covet them! You're so kind to give me this advice and share your stories. God bless you.
Basically what has happened to us is something called "learned helplessness." We don't know how to escape the guilt cycle. We don't think we CAN escape. We don't think we deserve to. But we CAN. We don't have to let these parasites suck the joy out of our lives. If you read the Bible it says, "love your neighbor AS you love yourself." That means it is not only okay to love yourself, it is really necessary. You have to take care of you BEFORE you can take care of anybody else.
It's okay. Really! I wish you well.
Thanks for the scripture. It truly is one I memorized as a child. It just seems so bad to NOT care for your mom, but I have to move on due to her nature & aging issues.
Thanks for your kindness.
Thank you!
It will consume her money. She has approximately 2 more years before AL will no longer be affordable for her. It may sound strange but we pray she'll be nursing home acceptable by then as she'll be on Medicaid. According to AL now, she must get worse than she is today to be accepted. Not being able to walk without a Walker and forgetting her meds are not reasons to go to a NH.
Thanks for your remarks. Pray for us.
Since you say that you know mother is not mentally well, why do you need it confirmed at this point? She's 89 years old. Would she agree to take a medication that's intended to slow the progression of Alzheimers, if that is what she has? Even if she did, would it change her behavior? Does she take meds for depression? That might help her mood. Sometimes, people who have cognitive decline grew increasingly angry, rude, selfish and aggressive. They also suffer with delusions.
Who is her Healthcare POA? Unless, they are able to override her decisions, get the doctor to order meds to treat her symptoms and the staff can get her to take them, then, I'm not sure how she can be helped to change. IT's a shame, since it sounds like she is suffering from mental pain. However, if you don't have the ability to help, then, you just can't. I'd try to take a break for your own mental health. Plus, does she have an Advanced Healthcare directive? Perhaps, she has no intention of prolonging her life at 89, even if she does have a cardiac condition. Some people chose Palliative Care, which is comfort care only.
I am her POA, not sure about Healthxare POA?? Guess she doesn't have one or is it me? How do I find out?
I will need to research your other terms. I'm not knowledgeable about advanced healthcare directive & Palliative Care.
I need personal counseling and an education on eldercare protocol.
Thank you. You've given me lots to think about and research.
I am trying to conserve her remaining money so I actually buy her needs & supplies myself. This, too, will pass if someone else takes over.
Tgank you!
Thank you!
Have you ever been to a counselor to see how to cope with her behavior and learn why you allow yourself to be treated like this? Because obviously you may have read the books on boundaries but you are having trouble thinking you are worth implementing them. A good therapist can help you. You’re mom has probably told you all your life bad things about you which has contributed to your low self esteem. You sound like a caring daughter. But just because she gave birth to you doesn’t mean she is a good mother. Sadly she sounds like she has psychological problems. They put my dad on Trazadone at night to help with belligerent behavior. You need a care conference at the facility. Involving the social worker, director and NP.
AL has NOT banned me. NP suggested that we back off & see if after a few weeks she changes her attitude. Didn't work....but I got a break.
I may be her POA from a distance...maybe.
If dementia is coming into play then you need to realize two things: (1) your mother is not going to happy anywhere regardless of how much you appease her; and (2) a good geriatric psychiatrist can really help stabilize your mother's moods with proper medications.
Much appreciate your help.
You are at Stage 1 of the "repair the parent-child relationship," and many will not get beyond that. Some won't need to. I think of Stage 1 as getting Mom or Dad to independent living, assisted living, or a continuing care retirement community (everything on one campus). So she's not dependent on you to meet her every physical need. BUT, you are still connected at the hip, because she expects and demands that you provide, or fix, EVERYTHING that she perceives is missing or wrong with her current situation. And not in a nice way.
Stage 2 is to get out from under that expectation. There were many good suggestions. My sister had to tell our (late) mother that she would visit once a week, and she would not drop everything to bring her something she wanted. "Fine, Mom, I'll add it to the list." Of course she had the ability to get something on her own if she REALLY wanted it urgently enough. They had a shopping service, trips to the stores in the AL's van, she could call someone else, etc. All places have to arrange for Personal Needs Accounts. If my mother-in-law needs something, she makes a list and gets it to the person at her ALF who purchases it for her and debits the amount from her PNA.
So you need to get to Stage 2. She has told you she doesn't want you to hold her POA, manage her finances, see to her personal needs in the AL. She can hire an elder law attorney to do that. Sure it will cost money, but evidently she no longer trusts you so her options are limited. When she complains that she needs money, you will have to say, "Mom, call your financial POA, s/he's in charge now." Practice saying this in front of a mirror. She will argue with you, say you don't care about her, you're cheap (won't spend your own money to buy her Kleenex). And repeat. This can take a long time.
Stage 3 ("nirvana" if you can get there) is when you are no longer responsible for any aspect of her care, either medical or financial. You are just her daughter. You now have a mother-daughter relationship unencumbered by her complaints. Every visit does not have to be about money. You're not there to check on what she needs. But, when you take away a senior's ability to complain about her situation(s), often there is not much left to talk about. You will have to take the lead. When you visit - not that often and not for that long - just give her an update on what you and your family have been doing. Keep it positive. Share photographs. Do most of the talking. Ask directed questions - what was the best thing you did last week? If/when she starts to go negative ("Nothing - and the food is terrible"), try re-directing the conversation. If she persists, get up to leave. DO NOT ENGAGE. Screen her calls. Decide how many times a week/day you can indulge her phone tirades. You need to do this for your own health.
Do check in from time to time.
Next time some interfering friend or relative says they can't understand why she is there, she is doing so well! Tell them "of course it is hard to understand, she is doing very well, BECAUSE SHE HAS A VILLAGE PROPPING HER UP! Who wouldn't look like they've got it all under control when they have a housekeeper, a cook, a nurse and aids. That's why she is here, so she can focus on herself being better and strong."
Then offer to show them the bite marks where she chews on you.
I went through this with my dad. People telling him, he didn't need help, to the point he moved out of AL. Now I wait for the phone call, because he can't care for himself, he lives with people that don't care for him and it was all because he was doing so well from all the care.
Pulling our parents off the edge is a double edged sword. So sick to so well and no one else can see why! Just frustrating.
Take care of you and enjoy your husband.
Independent living
Assisted living
Nursing home/skilled nursing
Memory care
All of these levels are at the same facility, where I live the IL is usually apartments that are right next door to the facility that has the others. Some are different wings and others are different floors.
They serve to keep from having to do a move, it's kinda like changing hotel rooms, as it were. All of the activities are the same, dining room, courtyards etc. Mom just gets moved to the level of care she needs. It is less change for them, they learn a new room number verses an entire facility.
I hope this clarifies that.
I wasn't trying to be offensive, so forgive me if I was.
It is so difficult because our parents know every single button we have, they created them. Learning to walk away is difficult when we feel like our reputations are being ruined but anyone that matters will seek out the truth and the rest just don't matter.
Let mom think they are her allies, then maybe she'll need you less. Just a thought.
You have great advice & explanations. I'm not sure we have this type of facility nearby. I will be inquiring tho.
Thanks so much. You have a sweet & warm heart!
It will pass, but not in a way I expect you would want to wait around for. Do you have access to specialist psychology services for her?
Meanwhile, you do not have to tolerate being hit, not in any circumstances. Your mother is well cared for, so that objectively speaking she does not need you to be there, and if you think that your presence is doing her no real good either, it is *fine* to take a break. You can manage her care perfectly well without direct contact, at least for the time being.
It may even be that a skilled psychologist or mental health nurse will be better able than you could be to get her to accept help and treatment. These professionals have two huge advantages: one, expertise; and two, your mother's behaviours don't hurt them.
Thank you so much. Pray she doesn't go over the top when we say she has this appointment. Pray she will go.
Thank you!
Let that go for now, Your visits that she refuses to Include you with in her life. Give it some time and when she may have cooled Down, Find out if she wants you Around.
I too struggled with the boundaries idea on my own mom, while though a kook her whole life, did also do a lot of good and sacrifice for me growing up, sports, vacations, scouting, etc. Its hard to do that when you know the other person is just not outright evil.
But I ended up having to, including one blank check day a week (one day a week for me to "use" her as she will, with the idea she schedules all of her stuff then) and up to another day a week if a dr. appt. or funeral of a friend comes up or something. I do know some of her friends think I am being mean to her, but other friends know how she is and they feel sorry for me.
Often I find there is a two fold goal in boundaries. One is to help induce change in the other person, and the second is protect yourself. e.g if a friend takes advantage of you in some way, you set a boundary, and maybe it makes them change. With people our moms age, they are not going to change. I found that realization somewhat liberating as I thought if I reasoned with her enough, explained logic to her enough, she would see my point and change .She didn't, then I got doubly frustrated. So now I realize she is who she is, she will not change, she will not understand reason. So I still suffer from her abuse, but do so in a limited fashion due to the boundaries, but also don't get frustrated when she doesn't change.
My mother’s dr sent me to the Al clinic at the hospital. I am seeing a specialist that is teaching me how to handle conversations with my mother, how to set boundaries and what my options are.
She also conducts a support group one day a week. She is like my life preserver.
Two pieces of advise that helped me came from the facility Social Worker:
1. SW asked me to describe how our relationship/dynamic was before she needed any help or developed dementia. We spoke about how much time we spent together, how often we talked, etc. Really thinking about that was helpful because the SW response was classic. "Well, you two have been all up in each other's space lately haven't you? Do you think you could take a break, reduce that contact time? She's safe, we've got her". I listened, it helped!
2. Saying "sorry" can work wonders sometimes. Hang on, wait for it. "Sorry....." but don't finish the sentence, just I'm sorry. The rest of that sentence might be "sorry you are so crazy, sorry you can't see or appreciate how much I'm doing or sacrificing, sorry you can't understand how all this is negatively affecting me, sorry you are the harbinger of your own misery, sorry you wish you had your car to drive, your independence, your person that makes all things better, your youth, your health" whatever. Let her fill in the blank, it will be to her liking and she can believe whatever she wants. It's not lying because you are sorry. There's just no need to finish the sentence.
Best to you! This is all so hard!
I don't think it will stop meanness. Your mother may not be in mental pain, she just may be mad and hateful because she can't get her way. There is no way in hell you deserve to be anyone's punching bag. Don't see her alone, when you go to see her, get her into a public place and visit there.
She was put on Buspar, on day 3 or so, when they wanted to give it twice a day, she refused. It was the lowest dosage but she claimed she had a screaming fit late one night (probably after 2 days?).
She had a bad reaction to an anxiety drug some 40 years ago.
I’d limit my visits. If she is incapable of better behavior, maybe have a heart to heart with her drs. to find out, I’d still limit visits and definitely physical abuse is not ok. You deserve less stress , no guilt and definitely no verbal nor physical abuse. If she is incapable of that, she needs to learn to get along without you. Just from what I’ve seen, and lots of study and some therapy due to years of verbal abuse but not really anything scientific, I think their true personality comes out. Unfortunately my mother’s was as a narcissist. Dementia hasn’t changed that for the better. Sometimes facts are just facts and if you can step away from the emotional turmoil, you can see it more clearly. But it’s not selfish to take your needs into consideration.
I think you can get an attorney for a POA. Might be worth it if you can possibly afford it.
I just received a call from her NP who visited her today and heard from the AL nurse about last week's "blocking the door" episode. She politely said, no pill can change ugly". She is just who she is.
I appreciate your advice more than you know