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gizmoe, do heed igloo572's cautions as there really are "lots of smoke and mirrors" with selling annuities in addition to the potential complexities of Medicaid and VA benefit rules. One correction to the example in igloo572's good explanation is that at age 82, according to SS's Actuarial Life Table, male life expectancy is 7.27 more years and for females its 8.58 years and those are the respective maximum payout durations to be Medicaid compliant at exactly age 82. I suspect the VA also uses SS's actuarial life table, but I don't know for certain. Here's the link to the life expectancy table: www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html /table4c6.html
Be very VERY careful as there lots of smoke & mirrors on annuities imo.
Medicaid “qualified” is NOT, again NOT, the same as Medicaid “compliant”.
Annuities can be sold basically by anyone holding an insurance license. They are an insurance product - usually a packaged product - and almost always have a commission structured to be paid to the insurance agent for the life of the annuity. They have very strict terms as to any changes or withdrawals to the annuity with penalty placed outside of those terms.
The “qualified” usually gets interpreted as the $ in the annuity is guaranteed and the amount paid to you each mo counts therefore as reliable income, it’s qualified income. (so its guaranteed income should you need to do say a Miller Trust). But as Bicycler said it’s income that gets counted into your overall income. But if all your “income” and “assets” take you over the allowed limit for VA or for Medicaid you will not be eligible as you are not “at need”. It’s also “qualified” as it’s not considered gifting but the purchase of an investment asset that produces income.
True Medicaid compliant annuities have just a few underwriters - they are speciality underwriting- and most of these are written on SPIA’s (Single Premium Immediate Annuities) for the still living in the community spouse (usually younger) to get her assets over the 119k asset ceiling into the SPIA to become monthly income to her as her income does NOT count to get her husband eligible for Medicaid. Only hubs has to be impoverished, not the community spouse.
Regarding “compliance”, to me by far the biggest issue for annuity be Medicaid compliant is that the annuity must be actuarial sound. They must pay out & pay off within established actuarial/ death tables for your demographic. Death tables for the US are decreasing. Average life expectancy is US is 78.4 (81 women, 76 men). So if you sold your 200k home at age 82 and placed all into an annuity, it would not be compliant for Medicaid as it’s not actuarial. Also to compliant for Medicaid, it must be irrevocable and must have the state named as the primary beneficiary up to the amount paid by Medicaid on your behalf. Only if there’s $ left after Medicaid as first beneficiary is paid will any excess be paid to your heirs as listed as secondaries in the annuity.
Out of curiosity, were these annuities promoted at some sort of luncheon or dinner elder advisory seminars?
gizmoe, converting an asset into an income stream will, by definition, increase total income that the VA uses to determine benefit eligibility and amounts. Beyond that, it's hard to say how an annuity will affect you without knowing your total income and total medical-related expenses. And every state has its own specific Medicaid rules, including how annuities are treated, which may or may not comply with VA rules. I suggest you consult with an elder-law attorney and/or a state veterans affairs representative before selling your house.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Medicaid “qualified” is NOT, again NOT, the same as Medicaid “compliant”.
Annuities can be sold basically by anyone holding an insurance license. They are an insurance product - usually a packaged product - and almost always have a commission structured to be paid to the insurance agent for the life of the annuity. They have very strict terms as to any changes or withdrawals to the annuity with penalty placed outside of those terms.
The “qualified” usually gets interpreted as the $ in the annuity is guaranteed and the amount paid to you each mo counts therefore as reliable income, it’s qualified income. (so its guaranteed income should you need to do say a Miller Trust). But as Bicycler said it’s income that gets counted into your overall income. But if all your “income” and “assets” take you over the allowed limit for VA or for Medicaid you will not be eligible as you are not “at need”. It’s also “qualified” as it’s not considered gifting but the purchase of an investment asset that produces income.
True Medicaid compliant annuities have just a few underwriters - they are speciality underwriting- and most of these are written on SPIA’s (Single Premium Immediate Annuities) for the still living in the community spouse (usually younger) to get her assets over the 119k asset ceiling into the SPIA to become monthly income to her as her income does NOT count to get her husband eligible for Medicaid. Only hubs has to be impoverished, not the community spouse.
Regarding “compliance”, to me by far the biggest issue for annuity be Medicaid compliant is that the annuity must be actuarial sound. They must pay out & pay off within established actuarial/ death tables for your demographic. Death tables for the US are decreasing. Average life expectancy is US is 78.4 (81 women, 76 men). So if you sold your 200k home at age 82 and placed all into an annuity, it would not be compliant for Medicaid as it’s not actuarial. Also to compliant for Medicaid, it must be irrevocable and must have the state named as the primary beneficiary up to the amount paid by Medicaid on your behalf. Only if there’s $ left after Medicaid as first beneficiary is paid will any excess be paid to your heirs as listed as secondaries in the annuity.
Out of curiosity, were these annuities promoted at some sort of luncheon or dinner elder advisory seminars?