Anyone have suggestions on clever therapeutic lies for taking check book away from LO with dementia?

We were having problems with the checkbook and credit card situation because momma got to the point where she would just sign a blank check and give it to one of my siblings. She has never been good with a checkbook in the past but as the years went on it got worse and I have those siblings that do take advantage of her. When momma was moved into assisted living the checkbook and credit card went away. Oh I got hell for it! I am POA but after a while she got over it. Well sort of!

Tell him bank switching to online banking only to modernize & upgrade to reduce costs. How’s that? Hugs 🤗

Depending on whether he actually recognizes real checks still or not, maybe see if you can find him a fake check book. He can write checks all day that way and everyone is happy.

Or take the checks, but give him a fake register that he can balance regularly.

Is DH FPOA? Get his private banker involved in this (call the bank and speak with e a private banker). I know my bank is especially concerned with things like this.

As others have mentioned, get checks where the FPOA and FIL both need to sign.

You might also need to consult an elder attorney, as it also might be in FIL’s right to write out checks for whatever he wants.

Another suggestion is for FPOA to move all the money into a different savings account and give FIL a weekly or monthly stipend in his checking account to spend as he wishes.

Can't you get the POA to make the checks out so they must be signed by BOTH parties to make them 'legal'?

My MIL has her daughter on her checks. SIL is now writing all the checks that go out and has MIL sign them, then she co-signs.

If MIL wanted to write a check for $50,000 to someone, she could. SIL would have to co sign or the check is no good.

Mom had her FPOA on her checks. She was able to balance that checkbook to the penny every month and she'd have him go over the checkbook once a month. I think he had her make out the checks and then he'd sign them, too.

From way , (OP)

Thank you all for your ideas. I spoke to DH. We came up with telling FIL That it has been recommended not to keep check books in AL facility . I got this idea from the post talking about account numbers and routing numbers and that when he wants to write a “ birthday check “ DH will bring a check to FIL. This way DH will know he’s not writing a check for a large amount that he normally would not write .
Large gift amounts like a tuition bill for only one of the 8 grandchildren is not something FIL would do in his right mind . Just months ago he was worried about running out of money in AL .

He needs his money to take care of him . I agree , he could change his mind , do more aggressive treatments and live longer than expected and run out of money . Then Medicaid could come into play .

One thing that needs to be looked at here is Medicaid. Writing large checks could cause penalties and FIL not be able to get help when/if needed.

I would gave a talk with step-sister. Tell her there is only so much money and that is being used for Dads care. There will be no large checks written to her daughter or checks written to just her kids. Bring up the Medicaid thing.

I agree that you need to keep Dads checks. I like the idea of transferring money to another acct and leaving him enough to write those birthday checks. Try to explain to him large checks cannot be written because that money is needed for his rent.

DH should make an appointment with a bank officer at FIL’s bank. He should visit in person taking his POA papers, also some IDs, and tell the bank officer to flag FIL’s account. DH should ask bank to list him as a trusted contact, which means they’ll notify him if any funny business starts. Then DH should move most of the money into other accounts for FIL. Any recurring deposits such as SS check, pension etc. goes into new account. Dole out enough to the old account so FIL can pay for necessities.

From way ( OP) ,

I would like to add that FIL is not mailing these checks . Step comes out to “ visit” and a check is written while she is with him .

I agree DH needs to keep checkbook. After all isn't gifting not allowed for medicaid? Let's just say he uses all his money whether giving granddaughter gifts or gets scammed somewhere else down the line and then needs to get medicaid. Then what? He's up the creek. I really am surprised by Burnt's reply to this.

After all FIL may be a DNR but we know how that goes. Many are going and going even with serious illnesses. And FIL may say no to this procedure or that right now but he could also do a 180 and change his mind too.

From a reply within this post, the OP confirms that DH has DPoA and the FIL has a medical diagnosis of dementia. Nothing more is needed.

Take the checkbook away. If you need a therapeutic fib, tell him it's not within his budget to keep giving money away, that he may not be able to afford the nice facility he is currently in.

Also, make sure there is absolute minimum of cash in the checking account in case he is able to write out more checks then they will bounce. Transfer the money into a savings account where he can't get it. Make sure he doesn't have the phone number of the bank, or know his account number (so that the rep wouldn't be able to process his request).

Inform the steppie that due to his diagnosis of dementia that DH is now doing ALL of his banking and financial decision making and that any requests need to come through DH in order to protect him from predators and financial abuse (and DH doesn't have to say it's the steppie, the fact is, those criminals do exist and operate everywhere. If one of them called him in the AL he could easily have his account drained -- all he'd need to do is recite the account and routing numbers printed at the bottom of each check). There will be blow-back from both FIL and the steppie, but so what?

I see so much nit picking discussion on the forum about the legalities of POA, but IMO most of it comes down to family dynamics. If FIL or SIL or anyone else involved will call in authorities then there is a reason to tread lightly, if not it's just a matter of asserting yourselves and holding firm. The "smart and manipulative" gene obviously never went to your DH or he'd be more adept at playing that game.
(which undoubtedly makes him a much better man)

@burnt, from way ,

We were told FIL is not competent to take care of or make financial decisions .
Despite having a list of family birthdays and anniversaries etc , that this step gave to FIL along with a box of cards she gave him that sits right in front of him at his kitchen table in his room , FIL never thinks to write a check or send a card to anyone else . This step is prompting him to do it. I consider that financial abuse.

BurntCaregiver 7/27/2023

There is some reason why your FIL still is in possession of his own checkbook and credit cards and able to endorse checks from his own accounts (that are his money).

So could it be that he isn't so out-of-it with dementia that he doesn't know and understand what he's doing? If he's still smart and manipulative?

Here's the thing. It's his money (FIL). If he wants to help pay for his "step" granddaughter's college tuition, what is so wrong with that?
He may think of her as his actual granddaughter. The same way that I think of my "step" son as my actual son since I was his mother since he was a toddler. His future children will NOT be "step" grandchildren to me. The person who would call them that to me will find themselves sorry indeed.

If your FIL's bills are paid and he can afford to help his granddaughter out with her education, it is not for your husband or anyone else to prevent him from doing so.
It is not the job of a POA to preserve potential inheritance for a person's adult children.

From way ,

I agree cwillie. I told DH he has to put his foot down because he is legally responsible for his father’s money. I will keep reinforcing that .

You can tell him whatever you want, you can stall him with I forgot or I'll get to that tomorrow but it won't make any difference as long as the weakest link is your husband, not your FIL.

Grandma1954 July 27, 2023 7:43 am
FIL has a diagnosis of dementia.
I am going to assume that POA is in effect.
FIL should no longer have access to his checkbook, credit cards or other means that would constitute a "legal document"
When you are signing your name on a check or when you sign for a credit or debit purchase you are entering into a legal agreement. If he is no longer cognizant he can not do that.
Inform family members that the POA is in FULL effect and that FIL is no longer able to make financial decisions.
If the family members disagree with that they can take it up with an attorney.

There is no way to tell him anything "clever".
If he does understand tell him that he needs to be careful with his spending because the cost of where he is living is increasing.

You can continue to tell him you are ordering checks
or
You can tell him that all checks are done on line now and that no paper checks are used.
or
Tell him anything else you want to tell him but with dementia he is going to forget what the reasons are. The difficult persons to deal with are the ones that are financially abusing an elder. And that is reportable and you can tell them that the next time they want a check written. That will hopefully that will put a stop to it.

Thanks ,
These are good suggestions except …. a POA can’t gift money away . If DH says he will take care of it next time … This step daughter will tell FIL that whatever money she was expecting didn’t come . It’s disgusting that she prompts this man with dementia to write checks. Her family is the only checks FIL has written to .

The bank is doing away with physical cheques, it's all e-transfers from now on?

“Your bank isn’t using paper checks anymore, they’ve GONE GREEN. Just tell (….name of POA) when you need a check, and he’ll take care of it on the computer. Sorry about that Dad, it’s the bank’s rule”.