Can adult protective services get the law involved if the victim isn't interested?

MaryKathleen, I got a real kick out of the baby reference.

I almost drove myself to bankruptcy taking care of my mother in her own home. I was so terrified of all the stories of elder abuse that I never asked for a penny for her food, meds, laundry, transportation, etc, etc. Now I wish had been more assertive, gotten a lawyer and showed him/her what I was spending. Because of her mental condition, she thought things "magically" appeared. I am sure if I had confronted her with what I was spending, I would have been accused of something illegal.

IMHO, you need an elder law attorney.

Is the power of attorney in effect at this point?

This is a family affair and your grandmother's money to do as she pleases, whether it's to loan you money or not. If she is at the early stages, if she understands and consents, then that is her right. It is not unusual for custody legal fees to come from family or friends.

It's always best to have some written contract. If there is not one, then it's between the two of you to agree on a payment plan if that was the understanding. Otherwise, the money more likely would be considered a gift. This is not a bad thing because you are her grandchild protecting your child.

My concern is that APS and police may seem like the authority which your grandmother may rely on, however she may need her lawyer to trust in this situation. If your grandmother's choice of poa is revoked, was this done fairly to her. Did this just require your mother or you to formalize agreements in her best interest.

My first thought is that if the bank didn't think you were taking advantage of her what's in it for them to pursue this with APS? and yes, APS will investigate and if they believe there is abuse there they will refer it to law enforcement. if your gtandma hasnt been declared incompetent then she can do whatever she wants w/ her POA. I suggest you pay her back every penny you borrowed and with a bank check made out to her from you, and note that it was payment in full for a loan so there's no question you paid it all back. I don't think it's likely that 1 transaction caused the bank to contact APS. I also think your mom could have been doing things you don't even know about. Only you and her know for sure. Protect yourself. This is serious business. APS will take it seriously because the report came from the bank who has no axe to grind by a false accusation. Be Smart.

Is there a statute of limitations on these cases? I was just wondering...if money isn’t paid back. What if the elderly person dies, can other family members sue for the money? Suppose they need the money to bury the person or do house repairs to sell property. Can an injustice be pursued by their next of kin?

FYI... Most POA's address gifts and what the POA is allowed to use the money for. You are entrusted to be financially responsible and use good judgment in how the money is spent. You can't take a 2 wk vacation and have her pay for everything even if she goes with you. She can pay for 1/2 but not your part. That's not you being a good steward of her assets. And it's illegal if that sort of vacation is some thing out of character for her.
"If You always do the right thing then you will never have anything to worry about".

I am my dad's guardian and I am accountable to the Court for every PENNY of his money - and they review his financials annually. It's stressful, keeping up with everything, but his money will go for what he needs. period. that's the way it should be - it's his money- not mine.

Concernedcake, I'm responding to your reply below. Your Grandma (and or you and Mom) needs to consult an attorney ASAP. You need to have a third party involved here to fight for what Grandma wants to see happen. Don't wait.

Concerned,
I'm also responding to your reply below... Thanks for jumping back in. Like I said, there are often gray areas regarding things we see as black-and-white. In our defense, we only know what we can infer from your posts. This seems like an awful experience for you, your mom, and your grandma, so I hope you've at least learned that getting things in writing up-front can save you a lot of headaches down the road.

One thing still confuses me, though. If your grandmother is unable to act on her own behalf and vouch for the withdrawal with her bank, how is she capable of revoking her POA? Can't have it both ways, I would think. I feel like I'm still missing something, so I definitely agree with mstrbill and suggest consulting a lawyer.

Concernedcake: Glad that you saw an attorney.

A couple of questions come to mind immediately (1) "a portion of the money" as you have written was for you, what about the rest? Do you have any receipts on what it was spent on? and (2) Have you contacted an elder law attorney -- or the one that set up the POA? You need to answer both of these. As I was mother's DPOA and MDPOA for years, I had complete access to her bank account. HOWEVER, I could not do "whatever" I pleased. I was required to keep records of all expenses, which by the way came in real handy at Income Tax Time. If your grandmother was in agreement with the withdrawal, perhaps getting a letter signed by her (AND NOTORIZED) might be helpful for Adult Services.

Depending on the level of Alzheimer's she is in, will also dictate whether or not anyone but her can have a POA changed. If activated, the POA was necessary, then a simple letter from her Doctor should help in resolving this issue. I believe that most POA documents state all the responsibilities and legal rights over the bank account. Read it - What you and your mother did just may be illegal. Get the #$$$ paid back as quickly as possible.

Good luck. POA's are never easy and need to be followed to the letter.

You asked basically if APS can proceed even if the person involved doesn't want them to Yes. They are there to PROTECT the person. A complaint made will be investigated. The APS has the power of the law behind them. That is to say, if they suspect abuse they will see to it that POA is removed and given to someone competent to handle it or to the State in the form of guardianship. At the point guardianship by the state comes in, the family of someone with dementia will quite honestly have input, but nothing to say or decide really; the state will be in control.
Anyone with POA for finances is required to keep careful and meticulous records. Taking a loan from someone whose finances you are handling, especially if that someone is even mildly impaired, is a real no-no, and if it is done for some reason it should be overseen by a lawyer with clear written contract.
Hope you will be able to work it out for what is best for everyone.

Yes, of course they can. And especially if the alleged victim has Alzheimer's Disease and the allegation is one of financial abuse on the part of the alleged victim's POA.

I hope you have very strong and well-documented evidence that your grandmother authorised the loan to you voluntarily and understands how and when it is to be repaid to her.

What other money is it alleged has been misused?

One more thought, in defense of what was done (but it probably should have been done in writing, given grandma has early ALZ) is that someone can gift money to anyone. Playing devil's advocate here:

If grandma, in this case, is still deemed competent (I see that she passed the written and driving tests as well as being deemed competent enough to be talked into revoking the POA, under duress or not - they still deemed her competent to do this), grandma could direct her POA to gift money. There is nothing illegal in that. It is not a wise idea, esp if funds are limited, because if she ever needed Medicaid that would play against her.

My point is why would the bank and APS assume financial abuse off the bat? No idea how much money was involved and there seems to be more than just the granddaughter loan, but if grandma wants to gift money and tells POA to do it, she can. POA could override this if deemed unwise to proceed. If she does proceed, it is always best to CYA by getting something in writing, notarized (can't hurt to query the attorney who drew up the POA as well.)

My mother was giving each of us money (under the IRS limit for tax-free gifting) before the dementia started. When I realized she was having cognitive issues, I said NO to her doing it again (she was going to, and OB was eager to get his next 'installment'. I figured we needed to preserve whatever she had at that point, so that there would be funds to cover a facility when it was needed. This was the best idea and so far she has enough funds for years to come! BTW she's 96 now - hopefully the trust will outlast her!)

While typing all that, I recall that on taking over mom's finances, I wanted all the eggs in one basket, to make the task easier for me to manage. She had a second account at a local bank, for easier access if she needed cash. I was NOT on the account and never did business with them (so they didn't know me at all.) I took her and the DPOA document to the bank and was able to withdraw all the funds (by bank check and it wasn't pocket change!) and close the account. Mom just stood there rifling through her wallet and purse - she never said a word and wasn't asked anything. I then took her to the CU to deposit this into her primary account. I didn't take anything from it, but that first bank had no idea what I would be doing with the money and never asked. I never heard a word about it! Of course I could show it was deposited to her account and used for her benefit, but still.... The bank never said a word and no APS stuck their nose into the business! Funny (odd) too because I have read so many comments from people who complain that banks won't honor the POA documents.

No don't let aps in your money. The only one that will see my moms is a judge or jury. They lie and make u feel like a criminal.

Is there information here about what amount was loaned to granddaughter? I don't find it. Is that the only transaction in question or are there others?

If APS becomes involved it is easy for them to get a court order for disclosure of financial records. They can do it on an emergency basis, a matter of days. It is always best to cooperate with them. Not doing so only raises red flags.

When I was investigated it was actually a relief. I thought that finally the allegations and accusations from twisteds would finally stop. 😄😄 Of course they didn't oh those twisted minds were certain that the pros must be wrong.

Oh those dysfunctional families...

It sounds like the bank is just trying to do their job. However it also seems like they are not listening to her wishes, and likely because they seem to know her medical situation, they may be using her diagnosis to retain control. An attorney should be spoken to as soon as possible. However let me offer another bit of advice, if your mom is truly to be allowed to handle the banking there is another solution / option to consider. When my mother was diagnosed with Leukemia, we went straight to the bank and I was added as a third account owner on my parent's account. As an account owner, I am able to pay bills do grocery shopping, and get cash if I need it for anything to take care of her and my Dad. As an account owner, there is nothing the bank can do against me when managing the money, it is as much mine as it is theirs. They chose to do this because they expressly trust me to do what is right for them, and now that Mom has passed, Dad has kept me on the account, and I continue to do the shopping and pay the bills to help him. It is a way to stop the bank's interference with my parents hard earned money and what they choose to do with it. I do not suggest this route unless the elder person expressly trusts the person to be added, and that person must be extremely protective and careful with the accounts. This means locking up ALL banking materials, and keeping a close eye on accounts. Because when someone gets sick, skeevy family vultures come out of the woodwork.