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Mom is in early dementia with short term memory loss and is living in rehab for now. She has an older friend who helps out but is limited. I live out of town.
POA sounds intimidating and I cant afford an attorney. I have permission to use her debit card and I currently pay her bills. I set her up with autopay as much as possible.
My questions are: Do I need to be her POA? Are POAs financially responsible for bills and payments if funds are low? Can I continue to use her card to pay her bills even if it is in her name? Can I have her bills forwarded to my address? Can I contact places like her hospital to discuss billing information
Thank you

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So sorry I guess i should of proof read before sending
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Reply to LoniG1
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Addressing POA you state money is in a rehab facility every countying in every state has an OMBUDSMAN every licensed assisted living have a poster stating what they do for mom and it's all free. Rehab/skilled nursing facility also have the same poster. POA/advance health care directive here in calif you must have an ombudsman witness a poa for health. Regardless if its an attorney, notary etc it must have ombudsman witness. Other wise it will not be valid. Please ck with your state to see if ombudsman witness is needed. POAFinancial should be notarized to be safe. Most facilities know of an available notary that travels maybe 35/50 bucks. Please be very careful using moms atm card as technically it's illegal even if she gives permission. Maybe you could convince mom to add you to her checking acct or make a new one with you and her. Then nothing as far as her financial would be illegal. Not that you could have trouble now but to be safe. Keep every single receipt that matches what you used that card for.

No you are NOT personally responsible for her debts.
Hospitals will request copy of poa for just about everything. They do have to follow next of kin if mom no longer has capacity to understand her medical concerns.
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Reply to LoniG1
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We had an accounting clerk pay Mom's bills and she was not a POA.
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Reply to brandee
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I’ve been paying all of my moms bills online for almost 3yrs & I am not her POA of anything. I noticed by seeing a bank statement she’d paid her cable bill 3x in one month so I questioned it. She handed me her bill basket (I grew up with this bill procedure) asking me to look at the actual bill and I asked if she wanted me to pay everything since we were sitting there. To my surprise she said yes if you would please. I’ve done it ever since. I created online accts so that I can print them off each mo vs asking her to find it. I find asking her anything at all re bills puts her in a spiral of sorts. I do however still have paper statements sent to her house bc I don’t her to feel removed if that makes sense. I also changed the phone number & gave mine so I could call from my phone without getting any inconsistency. I also take care of groceries via instacart using both her debit & link card. I applied for LiHeap with success the last 2 yrs as well by explaining her having dementia so she’s unable to have an appt of any kind. They let me come in her place without any approval from her which also made things easier. So, I was able to just step in & take them all over including hospital bills. You may find it’s a lot easier than it looks to be. I’ll also add, I have 3 siblings that I send a monthly budget too along with receipts so we’re all same page. We’ve been pretty lucky by each stepping in where we can.
‘on another note, it’s heartbreaking watching my mom who was tall, authoritative, a business owner and the number 1 go to with anything childcare related in our county having had her own daycare for 40+yrs. Sadly she remembers none of it…
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Reply to MSalazar227
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Get a Durable Power of Attorney in her state. They always ask to speak with my mom and ask her if she wants them to talk with me. In person she has to be with me or I have to produce the Durable POA. I wish I had gotten two official copies. I think my old one may need to be updated because of new legislation. Met Life wants it to specifically state annuities and life insurance. I have emailed them for more info. Merill Lynch has their own form and come to your house. This is so complicated if your mom has any assets. About the bills, do as much as you can online because they always want to speak with her. Her bills are even in my deceased dad's name and they want to speak with him.
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Reply to CareforMominTN
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You should not be intimidated about obtaining a Durable POA and a Healthcare POA. Obtaining both is really the best way for you to assist your mother now and in the future. Any decent estate lawyer can help with this at minimal cost. A POA is not personally responsible for the debts of the person they are assisting. Always sign as POA/Agent. Don’t just sign your name. Financial institutions and healthcare providers will refuse to tell you anything or follow your instructions because it is illegal for them to do so without proper legal authorization. Get the POAs.
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Reply to jemfleming
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You don't have to have a lawyer for POA. Just get the paperwork online, fill it out, and have it notarized at a FedEx Store.

Then get her bank card, set up an email account for her bills. Have her bills set up for online pay and start paying them. Be sure to close her banking accounts before she dies.
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Reply to NinjaWarrior3
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Using her credit card without your name being on the account is risky. POA is not expensive to obtain. Any local lawyer can help your mom get one.

POA gives the bearer the right and responsibility to handle affairs for the person incapable of doing so. There are 2 kinds - financial and medical. I usually suggest getting both to one person. As POA, you make decisions and pay using the person's assets - never your own. You are not responsible for their debts, just for acting on their behalf. Without this paperwork, nobody should accept you making financial decisions on behalf on another - unless local law allows for this.
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Reply to Taarna
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The other answers are useful, but quite simply ANYONE can pay M’s bills. The real issue is whether you can safely access her funds to do it.
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Reply to MargaretMcKen
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kenmtb: Obtain POA now.
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Reply to Llamalover47
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You should become a POA or Guardian. I had to take responsibility because my mom developed severe Macular Degeneration and Dementia. Everyone will give you a hard time if you don't have legal documentation. You need to have your mom put you on her bank account or provide the bank proof of guardianship. If you write the check, have her sign the check. You can have some of her accounts update her address to yours.
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Reply to Onlychild2024
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POAs (who are legally able to make financial and medical decisions for the person they are caring for) act on behalf of the person they are caring for. If your mother is considering setting you up as her POA she needs to do it while she is still able to sign legal documents. She has to understand what she is doing. Contact a local social worker in your mother's state to get resources and advice on how to do it with online forms or a pro bono attorney. Speak to the social worker about your mother's options, considering her financial situation. She can ask her credit card company to issue you a card on her account with your name on it so you can make payments for her with the credit card. Banks and other financial institutions have their own POA forms. With Social Security and Medicare, her doctors and her other insurance policies, you need to fill out so that you are on file as being able to speak on her behalf. For Social Security and Medicare you can do this over the phone with her also on the phone to agree to it. If you will not get formal POA, try to get a letter in writing from your mother that says that you can make decisions on her behalf, but not all institutions may accept this. It will be easier if you are her POA. While you are working this out, you can ask for a copy of her bills to be sent to your address, but better still, consider setting up her accounts as paperless, where you have access to the accounts online and get the email notifications. It's not good to have financial papers lying around if she is being cared for by strangers or other people, or if she is in a facility. If her funds are low, you will have to be the one to figure out how to handle her finances. This is where it may be beneficial to ask her local social worker what resources are available for her and what her options are. Much depends on her finances if you are not able to help her out financially. Ideally, you will find a way for her to live within her means. All the best to you both!
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Reply to NancyIS
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I would get POA for healthcare and finances done while it’s still early dementia. It’s likely not as expensive as you think. It’s a protection for you both. That said, I was my dad’s POA, took over his bills easily as he added me to his bank accounts, and no one ever asked me for proof of POA, or even if I was POA
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Reply to Daughterof1930
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While you CAN do this privately, between you & Mom - it has risks.

Being given permission &/or a card & you pay some bills can work for emergency situatuons eg a SHORT hospital/rehab stay.
Or having a joint bank account may make sense if you live together & share expenses.

However, for longer term, if any dementia or cognitive umpairement is diagnosed (or even suspected) I would suggest only working within a legal framework. With legally assigned POA.

Risks;
- Those with memory loss can accuse you of stealing.
- Other family can accuse you of taking advantage, of elder financial abuse.
- There may be financial look backs for health insurance/care
- Banks, power companies, other bill providers etc will have no authority to speak to you.

Picture this: paying the electricy bill but it going wrong. The power goes out but the electricy company will not talk to you to reinstate the power.

My own experience is that I was asked to *help* with some health bills & my LO would pay me back. I refused, stating I am not a credit card. A good move as it turnout out.. as my LO blamed me for the health tests being needed & disputed the bill. (My only role was driving there & back).

Tread very carefully & legally is my advice.
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Reply to Beatty
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Yes, you can do everything you are doing without POA.

A hospital will only give you medical information if she grants you a HIPAA release, otherwise, nope, no information is going to be released. However, I talked about the billing for my dad and my sister without POA. Different information is provided when you are paying versus receiving information for care.

I Downloaded the Durable POAs for Finances, Medical and Mental Health from our states attorney General website, they were perfectly legal and fulfilled ALL Legal requirements for a valid POA in AZ. I highly recommend that you try to do this for the state your mom lives in and get a HIPAA form and write in the form, before it gets notarized that it NEVER EXPIRES AND IS INTENDED TO BE VALID IN ANY JURISDICTION IT IS PRESENTED. Super important to have a valid HIPAA that never expires, the ones we all sign for Medical care expire annually and it may not be a 12 month period, it could be the fiscal year end for the practice and that means 12/31 it is no longer valid.

Right now everything is hunky dory with mom but, dementia can change that and without the POAs she could make helping her near impossible and super difficult, speaking from experience. So get those forms to make your future helping mom as easy as possible.
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Reply to Isthisrealyreal
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If yourvonbher bank accounts you can pay her bills.
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Reply to JoAnn29
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You do not need an attorney for a POA. You can do it yourself for the price of a notary. Go to your local public library and check out will making or estate planning software. Use that to customize a POA. Print it out. Go with your mom to a notary and have her sign it. There you go, you have POA.

> Do I need to be her POA?

You really should. Since if things go awry, people like her CC company will require it or they won't even talk to you.

> Are POAs financially responsible for bills and payments if funds are low?

No. But make sure you keep it that way. Don't accept financial responsibility. That means never sign anything in your name. Always sign it with "for" follow by your mom's name. You are signing for her, not for yourself.
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Reply to needtowashhair
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JoAnn29 Sep 14, 2024
Can't do it ince Dementia has been diagnosed.
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Hi Ken.
You SHOULD do this as POA. Please read up on the requirements for her state and do it asap IF you feel up to the job. You must be certain first that you are ABLE to do this. She has dementia. Once this progresses so that mom cannot be examined by an attorney to measure competency for knowing what she is doing, then she cannot appoint you and it will be too late if it is needed.

That said, it's a JOB. If you don't wish to do this perhaps discuss with Adult Protective a way to protect her, get her a financial manager to pay her wills, without yourself having to be responsible for this, or a Licensed Fiduciary.

If you choose to become responsible you are responsible for knowing HOW it is done and for METICULOUS records. It sounds to me as tho you feel not especially competent to learn and do that.
As to your question are YOU as her POA responsible for her bills?
No, you aren't.
But two of you can't function as bill payer. That becomes too willynilly.

It sounds as tho current things are going OK. It's great you can help her and have things set up. But this will get dicey when she's no longer competent and you are using her card. If she is capable now to put you on her account as co owner, and on her card as a recognized user of said card, that will ease things for now.

You say you have no money for an attorney, but it's your mom's money that pays for the attorney visit. I would see an elder law attorney or set mom up with a Licensed Fiduciary who will do it for a fee. (usually about 100-120 an hour; once set up work is done it takes most only about an hour a month).

I wouldn't take on this responsibility if you are uncertain. Discuss with another family member. When my brother fell ill with probable early Lewy's five years ago he made me Trustee of Trust and POA. It was a enormous learning curve for me and I still have the books sitting to prove it. But I was able to do it and became proud of myself that I could; I will say it added exponentially to my anxiety for a year, though.

Good luck whatever your decision is.
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Reply to AlvaDeer
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kenmtb Sep 14, 2024
Thanks for the reply. I am trying to stay at float working and keeping things going at her house. It has been one thing after another with bills as I have to have her housemate inform me when they come so I can get them paid. There is no one else to help and I am already feeling kind of taxed being responsible for keeping the house going. We had a run in with code enforcement and that took a lot to get straightened out. It would be nice to get an honest source to make sure her bills are paid. I don't mind doing it but I am worried about running in to a legal roadblock at some point. POA may be a bit too much as I am not young myself.
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Eventually she will need a PoA to step in to do more than pay bills. Do not sign your name to any of her paperwork. This is what a PoA authority will allow you to do: to sign on her behalf without personal financial responsibility to yourself.

PoA doesn't need to be complicated... what will be complicated is if she advances in her dementia and has no legal representative. Then the courts will eventually assign her a legal guardian and you will be out of the loop and all decision-making on her behalf. It will take a while for social services to recommend her case to a judge, so you will need to stand by and watch a train wreck before she gets a guardian.

If you are willing to be her PoA she currently sounds like she is still legally able to assign a PoA -- trust me from experience that bar is really low. The funds to pay for the attorney should come from her assets, not yours.

Or, you and she may be able to get this done while she's in rehab... you can download PoA documents for her state via websites like Legalzoom.com or Rocketlawyer.com to name a few. This is only if there is no spouse or other sibling (yours or hers) to contest anything. I did this with my single Mom and me, an only child. Much less expensive.

Then you need to legally finalize it: usually needs to be notarized in front of 1 or 2 non-family witnesses. Most facilities have notaries on staff, so you can inquire about this.

Once this paperwork is finalized, then you will need to activate the authority per what was specified in the PoA document: usually 1 medical diagnosis of impairment. Or, it can be a Durable PoA which goes into effect immediately. It may vary by state.

Then make all her management online as much as possible: medical portal set, onlin banking, and establishing PoA with any of her investments, like annuities, etc. It will take time to do this little by little but you don't want to do any of it in a crisis.

I live in MN and am PoA for an Aunt who lives in FL. I do fly down there at least once a year, but I have 2 cousins who are providing in-person care, so it helps to have a local advocate, like your Mom's friend. But this friend won't be willing or able to do much more as the needs increase. Better to get it under control now, IMO.
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Reply to Geaton777
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