Hi, this forum has helped a lot. Please forgive me if my question is a bit redundant. My head is all over the place right now.
My moms rehab accumulated a 50k balance and they are pressuring me for payment. Mom has dementia so can I help her pay the bill from her bank account?
I am considering getting an elderly law attorney but not sure how to finance that or it is worth pursuing. Perhaps an accountant can handle her finances?
The idea is to hold on to her home as long as possible before having the state take control. Thanks again
As has been pointed out, the rehab itself cannot declare her incompetent. Was she tested/evaluated by a neuropsychologist, a neurologist, or a geriatric psychiatrist there? If not, she may not be legally incompetent and could still assign you POA. In fact, if an attorney finds her competent to make that decision, she could still assign POA after having been declared incompetent.
These things are definitely worth checking on, because if you could get POA, your problems would be simplified. And if you can go to the bank with her (I realize this means making a trip to where she lives) and can tell the bank (and sign) that you can be a signatory on her checking account, that would still be helpful, That does not normally require a POA: my mother had me as a signatory on her checking account long before she assigned me POA.
im editing because I agree with you.
I was told mom’s Medicare was ending. I was also her POA and that’s why I’m sure they called me but I think they would have called any other family member mom would have named. I appealed with Medicare for more time. However mom WAS responsible financially for any days they didn’t cover while I looked for an ALF.
She has no POA that is the main issue. Her bills are on autopay.
The dilemma is, legal consultations cost $300-500. I don't have that cash on hand and she has a pretty good savings but I need a way to pay for the lawyer.
The local Action for Older Persons is a joke. You have to be below the poverty level to get help. I am thinking about getting her permission to pay a lawyer and helping her with the transaction so we can get some direction.
Sorry, but your mom's house needs to be sold and the funds go towards her care. Why hold on to the house? This is a dilemma for who? Your mom needs to live in assisted living. That is all out of pocket unfortunately. I had my mom hospitalized and became her guardian. The judge declared her incapacitated and I sold her house to pay for a personal care home. Not sure why you weren't notified about her stay in skilled nursing no longer being covered.
This is where you need the elder law attorney. Because the facility's determination of her incapacity might not meed the legal one. If she is indeed legally incapacitated them she can no longer assign a PoA or fiduciary herself. You would now need to pursue guardianship through the courts. And this is expensive. Or, a judge will assign her a 3rd party guardian.
"Medicaid will allow her to move to a better place"... no.
If she currently has funds this can be used to get her into a good facility on private pay that has Medicaid beds. Once she has spent down almost all her cash assets (and this varies by state) then if she is assessed as needing LTC (which is what Medicaid will pay for) then she must also qualify financially. If she does, her SS income will pay for her custodial care and she can stay in that good facility. The worst case scenario is she is not in a facility when she qualifies for Medicaid. Then she may only be able to get into county run facilities and they are usually not very good ones.
To clarify, mom's Medicare payments to the rehab ran out and she started accumulating a charges. The rehab applied for Medicaid. I was not in the loop when this happened so I saw a huge bill recently. I am not on her account but she knows I pay her bills from her account. I do not take a penny for myself.
The issue is, rehab declared her "incompetent" and there is no POA so official access to her funds for paying rehab/attorney/fiduciary is not possible right now.
This is what I gathered from the replies:
* I need an attorney to set up a fiduciary to handle her finances
* A fiduciary would be preferred a court assigned POA or guardian.
* The fiduciary would be paid an ongoing fee to handle her finances. This would have to come from her account.
Unclear about:
* If she gets a fiduciary, can I move her to different facilities after paying her rehab.
* Is a fiduciary better than an accountant or bookkeeper
*Will she have income to pay for her fiduciary's continued services.
*I found some local elder attorneys that list free consultation. Would they be better than trying to get help from the local Aging care programs.
*Will she immediately loose the house. I have to move the current person out, find homes for her cats etc.
Thank you very much for helping. It is taking some time to wrap my small head around all of the replies.
Ken
"I guess she may need a nursing home but I am not in the rehabs planning loop." I so hope you are in this loop unless you want the State to take over her care. If the State assigns a guardian, then you will have no control over what happens to Mom. Keeping her house would mean someone paying the bills because once she is on Medicaid, her Social Security and any pension go to the NH to offset the cost of her care. If her house is sold, the proceeds go towards Moms care.
I am not on her account. The rehab she is has only one line in and everything goes to voicemail. Sometimes they respond days later if at all. They will call randomly while I am at work to inquire about when payments will be made.
If they did not declare her incompetent then they would already have their money. As a last ditch effort I am seeing if I can physically assist mom with using her account to pay her bill. It should not be this hard. I can not afford an attorney and local so called legal aid has been a slow acting joke.
Also I was told to look at asking if her bank or tax prepare may be able to help take over some of her financial issues. It seems like there should be a simple solution that does not start of by feeding a layer $400 for an hour chat. Sorry for the whine.
I am beginning to think they want the state to take over and hand them everything.
If mom will not return to her home sell it NOW there is no reason to wait.
Is anyone POA?
Since mom has dementia she can not appoint a POA for health or finances so someone will have to become her Guardian. If no one wants to take that on then the Court will appoint a Guardian. Assets will be sold to pay for moms care. once all assets are gone there will be an application for Medicaid.
Don't wait, make that appointment with an Elder Care Attorney. Mom's assets pay for the Attorney.
In my area, there are elderly law lawyers that offers say a free forty minute consultation. We met with her once and she not only gave us good information, but said there is probably not more we would need from her.
Dont know if that type of thing is available everywhere.
I guess she may need a nursing home but I am not in the rehabs planning loop. I live out of the area and the facility is very hard to get in contact with.
Without accessing her funds, getting paid legal help wont work ($400 for consultation ). The local elder agency is good for leaving messages and sending links to national websites. Not dure if they have a caseworker.
I do not want her home, I was hoping to save it incase I could arrange home living assistance. Plus her friend lives there and helps out.
Follow AlvaDeer's advice!
Find an elder law attorney to help you with obtaining POA, and that means getting access to her bank account, as well as getting her moved from that facility, if you think she should.
But in the meantime, do not use your funds to pay any of your mother's bills! The facility will pressure you for payment - let them know you do not have POA and do not have access to mom's funds.
Are you her POA? Are you on her checking account?
The answer to your question is no, you almost certainly cannot touch your mother's accounts in any way to do any thing without POA and property steps in registration as her signee.
Why is your mother in rehab private pay?
This isn't sustainable.
First of all, stop worrying about bills that come for your mother overall. They are her bills. If she doesn't have money she can't pay them. Eventually such as with this HUGE bill, the company will go to court for judgement and the home will have a lien. Too many liens and the house is GONE with the winds. And they cannot touch your mother's Social Security (but can get everything else). They cannot touch your money; see to it you do not personally sign as responsible party for anything.
If you mother is in long term care it cannot be rehab. She needs extended care facility placement if this is long term. And right now. SURELY some social workers there have contacted you or her POA????
Are you your mother's POA? If not, who is?
Because if so there is a whole lot you need to know and I think that you DO in that case need an Elder Law Attorney to learn how to set it up and function as a POA. If you are not, and bills are being racked up to this extent, there will shortly be nothing left of that home at all to try to save. Everyone out there will be collecting off it when mom passes.
Moreover, be certain NEVER to use your own money which you will badly need for your own care quicker than you can imagine (I am 82 and here to tell you).
Time to consider the basics.
1. Is your mother competent.
2. If your mother is not competent who is her POA or her Guardian responsible for placement and bills.
I would contact APS if your mother is newly needing placement. She may require guardianship of the state to manage all of this through a court appointed Fiduciary if you feel not up to doing this. It takes, quite honestly, a whole education in elder care to manage the finances and placement of another person. If no one in the family is up to these decisions of placement, when and where; of sale of home: when, where, how and why--then you need real qualified help.
50K is a lot. And it will become 100K in the snap of a finger. When the government medicare stops paying for rehab it is not sustainable for an individual to stay there and I am absolutely FLUMMOXED that a bunch of social workers are not already at you with information. Contact the rehabs Social Workers TODAY and let them know where you and your mom, her finances and needs stand.
And yes, if a Social worker cannot help and guide you you must have at least an hour of time from an Elder Law Attorney to get options, information, guidance.