How do you deal with a narcissistic mother?

A lot us reported it and i also sent an email to the staff around 2:30am my time so i think we all helped get them removed or him/her cuz I wouldnt be surpeised if they were the same person with differnt accounts.

Well, if they can't play nice, then I'm glad they're gone. It just seemed like one was spouting off like we were supposed to fall down and thank her for her wordy comments, which I thought seemed pretty pretentious, like she wanted people to think she was an egghead, and the othe one chastised everyone for getting upset for feeling attacked and judged by the wanna-be egghead. Definitely an upleasant duo. Its too bad, because if the wanna-be egghead could've controlled her ego and her temper, and shortened her dang comments, she really had an interesting, altough a bit twisted, point of view.

I didn't read this thread all the way through...only the last end. When Elvira (aka Anonymous124098) told Playagrandma that she must be narcissist because she reacted to criticism with sadness and anger... What would I be? I handle criticism like it was a death sentence. I don't think it's because I'm narcissistic but due to Low Self Esteem!

Uhm... Elvira and Suddenobvious - since you both are so gungho pro-elderly care who should NOT be sent to NH, etc... Would you be willing to fly here - at your expense - and help me care for my 2 bedridden parents? Since I'm not able to afford to pay you both, can you put it in your heart to work one for day shift and the other night shift so that my parents can remain home? I've had a very difficult time finding relatives to watch for FREE. But, based on your comments here, perhaps, you would like to do so - out of the goodness of your heart? I would really, really appreciate it!

Oh, by the way, my oldest sis who had a nervous breakdown will be moving here soon. She tends to talk to "people who can't see" and stares into space, and laughs out of the blue. So, you may need to be caring for her too. Careful, she may sneakily smoke a cigarette in the bedroom. You must prevent her from doing this because my mom is on oxygen machine.

What do you think? Want to apply your beliefs into action? Airfare is about $1800-$2100.00 roundtrip. But you don't need roundtrip. One-way is fine - about $1300.00.

wow are they really gone Thank you so much for all your support. One thing for sure I did feel sad and mad because one you have to deal with a NM, you are constantly thinking-hey will I turn out to be her? Then to get blamed well you can imagine what was going through my brain. Nothing is easy when it comes to dealing with NM And at times yes I became bossy and taking over. But I had no choice. I had three brothers although have good intentions just were not stepping up to try and figure out why she was always sick to her stomach-why she was having accidents after she ate-why she over all didnt feel good. I steppped in to find out the problems and now she is good for the first ime. And after all is said and done-I got accused by her of butting into her life and bossing her around only to have elvira ns superobvious to tell me I was the one that was the narrissits-so yes I was sad and mad. A big thank you and hugs go out to each and everyone of you I feel all of your pain and hurt in having to deal with your NMs and hope you all have a wonderful weekend

((((((((hugs)))))))) Hope you have a good weekend
with a narcissist "No good deed goes unpunished" so you are d*mned if you do or d*mned if you don't so may as well go ahead and do what you feel right about.

Don't worry you will not turn out like her - not a chance!

quote :- (((((eddie -I'd first ask myself why I feel guilty. Is it something awful I'm atoning for, or the constant guilt trips my manipulative mother lays on me?))))

LOL! that's too ridiculous to even respond to ***

Book: Your offer is almost to good to pass up. My guess is you didn't have any takers. However, it was an excellent post. Cat

After a couple of slapdowns by a few posters, it really made me think. Was I being overagressive with my NM? I really thought I had been trying to help her. And as long as no one else would and as long as she was sick-she accepted my help. She went into assisted living July 31st and within hours she was already complaining. I have not seen or talked to her since that day. I stepped away long before the discussion that took place here that maybe I am the problem in this situation She has done nothing but make everyone miserable and finally did the one thing she was told she couldnt do and that was smoke in her room, She was fined $250 and told next time could be grounds of dismissal She indicated to two of my brothers that she was going to move. of the five kids-they are the only two talking to her They told her to do whatever she wanted but she wouldnt get any help in finding a place or help her move. She has one friend and one friend only, who the family suspects she is giving money to, that has helped her find a place. Its in another retirmement community, She will be moving into a cottage. To refresh your memory on this-she went to assisted living cause she cannot live alone. Oh she looks independent cause she can move around good. But she dont drive and she fell several times-she messed up bad with her medications and that caused her not to feel good with all sorts of issues I am sure she THINKS she is happy because she can now smoke again and do whatever she wants when she wants to do it. I feel bad cause I guess I denied her that by helping her get into assisted living. However the whole family was agreement and her dr insisted on it. If fact my baby brother(her golden child)was the one who called assisted living to get the ball rolling but then didnt lift one finger to help her get moved. So of course now I am getting blamed for dumping her there and blamed for her unhappiness but guess what? she feels better now than she has in years. So im done. Within days she will be unhappy again-its the pattern the family has put up with for years. Her kids are fed up. And all of us are convinced that she will be back in the hospital sooner than later. And whatever happens at this point happens. I dont plan on having any communication with her. And maybe she likes it that way. Time will tell. 337 postings again, I started this thread and I thank you all for your support and happy maybe we helped others. but i am telling you no matter how hard it is to let go-especially in my case I have to let it go. To i think she will be okay-no-do i think she will happy-of course not.

Have a good weekend everyone. Love you all

something happened friday that i wanted to share with you. After telling everyone that i was nuts and crazy and telling me that I was to BUTT out of her life, to mind my own business and stop interfering-she calls and leaves me a voice mail telling me she needs my help. REALLY? You see her birthday was saturday and I had sent a card-not to mom card-just a plain simple happy birthday card-and signed it -no love nothing. But she took that as everything was okay-NOT and of course now I regret sending any kind of card. Also she has found out that no one in the family has agreed to help her. So I guess since I have always been there to help no matter how bad I have been treated-that I would run right over to see her. Of course she said she was sorry of course she said she has been a mean mean mom but that likes a broken record with her. I am trying real hard to stay strong-to not let the guilt overtake me. Of course it doesnt help when the baby brother who told her she had no choice but to go into assisted living now tells her she can do whatever she wants and tells me this 'how would you like to be stuck in that place with no where to go or nothing to do' I didnt even reply. It will be worse where she is going but in the end he will regret having this attitude cause like I said before the place where she is going is in the same town where he works. Okay enough just wanted to share. I am not giving in with her-let my brother deal with her

"I am not giving in with her-let my brother deal with her"

stick with that, playa -

"I am trying real hard to stay strong-to not let the guilt overtake me. "

and stick with that

The only reason you feel guilty is because she had trained you to feel that way, and that you are responsible for her happiness, which is, incidentally, unachievable. We are brought up to tolerate behaviour way beyond what is healthy or normal - it is abusive.

Take deep breaths and keep reminding yourself of these resolves -

don't give in to her demands, or even her apologies because you know they are not sincere

let your brother deal with her

stay strong and do not let the guilt overtake you.

You have done nothing to feel guilty about . Arousing feelings of guilt in you is her sick way of manipulating you. Remember that narcissists use FOG - fear, obligation and/or guilt to manipulate other to do what they want. It is all about attention and control.

Good for you - rooting for you - hugs and prayers Joan

Good for you playa you are taking a page from Lisa's book Emjo has said it all -much better then I could have put that guilt is a paper bag and chuck it-you have no reason for any guilt-let your brother deal with her and the AL that my friend is in is a beautiful place which it should be for $4000.00 a month and anything you need you pay for plus much money up front-she may have a problem getting into any AL with her smoking habit but that will be HER PROBLEM not yours after all she does not need you or want you in her life-so that is what you do.

agreeing with emjo's reply playagrandma. Only we, ourselves, can deal with the guilt feelings we choose to carry....and I have plenty of them!

After 5mths of laying in her bed, growing weaker by the day, my mother decided last night at 2am in the morning that she wanted me to ring an ambulance for her to take her to hospital. Its not as if she hasn't been told for 5mths by everyone involved, that it would come to this. So here I am being woken out of a deep sleep by the phone ringing. She also rang the next-door neighbour. So a quick trip over to her place, ambulance arriving, etc....the paramedic asks her "why ring us tonight and not yesterday, or last week?" Her answer...."Cause I got the s**ts with it all." ahhhh...dahhh..it took 5mths to get to that?!!!!!
So here we are with a lung infection (from lying on a bed for 5mths) and other graver things. later.

Well, guess what! Even my golden-child sister (on her once every 2mth visit) got the cold-shoulder & the sword-tongue on her visit last weekend. Nothing different to what I've been enduring forever! We are all out-of-favour now...except the next-door-neighbour, it seems.

So you see playagrandma...i wouldn't let it bother you none. In these people's eyes, there is NOTHING you do that is done right! ....EVER!!!****

No nothing...after spending all day Sat with my mom going to the earth festival she threw a fit Sun morning to my husband then to me. I got up and walked my dog with a friend and hers, my normal routine at the campground. Got back around 10 and told her we were going to Lizs deck to set out in awhile. Wanted to grab me some cereal and had some things to first (did not give her a time). Liz came by and said she didn't want us to miss her...she was going to run down to the bridge ont he golf cart and did I and my puppy want to go. We hopped on and were back in about half an hour. My husband goes over at my request to tell my mom we were going to her place shortly and she starts screaming at my husband that I care more about my "d" dog and my friends and her....that she had been setting there by herself since 6 am watching me come and go after I told her I was going to take her with me. When I walked over there she was as calm faced as could be but started saying the same things very hatefully. She said it was 4 hours since I had told her I would be back to get her....it was barely noon. I explained I had eaten breakfast, cut up veg and chicken to put in crockpot for supper, and took a short trip with Liz. She was looking at me so hateful that I lost and I started getting upset and yelling that I couldn't take much more. I am up at the campground to relax and not be on a written time schedule. I do things as they come up, and I had not given her a specific time. She then says "why are you getting upset...and who needs to see a shrink now". I felt like she stabbed me in the stomach. It was worse than her crying and screaming....

Here it is 3 days later and the hospital doctors have just told me that my mother has severe phneumonia that she will not recover from, and that she will pass perhaps within this week.

So why is it, I don't have the normal feelings a daughter should have with this news? Why couldn't I bring myself to hug her frail body or hold her hand? I feel so emotionally dead and struggling with my feelings to find that place within me that pines knowing I could lose my mother tonight. :(

I am sorry ASympathiser. My NM mother passed away 5 years ago. When the end was near, I had some guilt that all I really felt was relief. Now, I miss the good times with her, and I hold on to the good memories. The rest I just let go of. What you are feeling is completely normal.

ASympathizer....I am so sorry...that must be so hard....someone as important as a parent that you love and feelings get hardened from their irrational behavior. I pray I never get to that point but it is understandable. We can only take so much before we have to put up a wall to function. I agree with MyWitsEnds...eventually try to hold on to the good memories and realize that the end was a part of aging and changing or increasing behavioral issues that we have no control over.

so sorry to hear this news. However I think what you are feeling is expected. Its really sad. My NM has about lost all her kids-three of the five and that includes me are actually dreading the day she dies-not out of losing her but thinking we dont want to have te endur a visitation and funeral -greeting people and trying to be nice. The thought makes me sick to the point my sister said she probably wouldnt bother. None of us can hang onto the good memories because there really isnt any. She left a voice mail for my oldest brother yesterday and said it was bad enough her mother didnt love her she didnt think her kids would be the same. you see she has that all wrong-the apple dont fall far from the tree-she dont love us cause she dont know how to love. All the family can understand in part her struggles cause her mom did take off when she was like 10 but she is 83 and she had a husband and five good kids that have tried to love her but she never appreciated that. So all she has left now is her misery. We all have said her mom probably did her a favor by taking off instead off having to put up with this horrible verbal abuse. I have been told my other members of my NM family-that she is just like her mother. I am thinking about you in your last days of struggling with this.

I really need everyone today. After not hearing my NM for weeks as you know she left a vociemail last friday trying to get back into my good graces. I did not call her. Then yesterday I receive two-almost begging me to forgive her. And now after two months thanking me and my husband for all we did for her. How unhappy she is and she wants her family back together-this is after she told us that we were no longer a part of her family. She just doesnt understand that at her family have no issues with each-the issue is her. She said several times how she wanted me to forgive-she knows she has been very very bad to me. Of course this is the pattern of a narrisstic person She decided to move out of assisted living to a duplex and asked for no input or help in doing this. She knows that we all disapprove and that it will be a matter of time and she will be back in the hosptial. So far we all have refused to help her move-I cant because we are at my daughters miles away. She then insulted me by saying when she gets her money back from vacating her apartment(the apartment she was in before assisted living she actually had to purchase like a house but will get a good part of that back)she would like to give me some money for all my hard work. Trying to buy me just wont work. But the kicker was that if she couldnt get her kids to love her she would find a razor and slit her wrist-when she got to the work wrist-I refused to listen to the rest of the message. She has threatended stuff like this before-taking all her pills at once-running out on the highway so a car would kill etc. I know these are all part of her using these things for guilt cause she knows she dont even have access to a razor blade

I am so upset. I cannot get this woman out of my mind and not with worry but with hatred. I should be concerned about my health and I am. I have high blood pressure and this dont help at all. My middle brother is going to go talk to her today. I worry about him. He is lupus and crohns and stuck in a teaching job with inner city kids. None of us know what to do anymore. Do we just give in or continue the tough love knowing it wont do a damn bit of good. Any help here would be greatly appreciated. Thank goodness I am not near her right now and I have my grandson-we are taking him to a movie and for pizza today.

Thanks everyone for allowing to vent. And have a great sunday funday.

Playgrandma: I'm sending you my best wishes. You are in a difficult position and all I can suggest is that you revisit what you know to be true. I was moved by your comment, "I can't get this woman out of my mind....and not with worry.....but with hatred." That was a very powerful statement. Very powerful.

You mentioned two options: "Do we just give in or continue the tough love, knowing it do a damn bit of good."

For what it is worth, here is what I would suggest. Just safe yourself. That's all you have the power to do. It's not about giving in and it's not so much about tough love. It's about extricating yourself from the mental illness of another who wants you involved in her nightmare.

You can't change her and you can't save your brother. I hope he will save himself too, but you can't do that for him. You can, however, be a voice of reason to him when he can no longer cope. He has a better chance of coming back to reality than your mom will ever have.

I hope you have caller ID and can choose which call to answer when you are at home. Maybe you can block her phone number so you no longer can receive voice mail messages from her. I don't know if it is realistic to disconnect your answering machine. I know we are all so dependent on our devices, but please try to find a way to lessen her ability to manipulate you.

My heart goes out to you and I realize it isn't easy. Best regards, Cattails

thank you cattails-I thought I had replied here the other day. I only have a cell phone and her number is in my contact list so I know when she is calling. I havent not answered any of her calls -she does leave a voicemail. I may end up changing my phone number. And yes hate is a powerful word and not doing me any good but then the guilt appears-you see I was raised catholic and had the commandments etched in my brain And although I have not attended a catholic church for years-those commandments are still there. Plus I am the oldest of five. maybe its time for therapy again. I am very fortunate though because I have the support of my husband and my siblings and an aunt-who is the youngest sister of my NM. None of us approve of this. She was very capable of making these arrangments to move out of assisted living and finding this duplex. Not once did she ask any of us what we thought about this. The reason of course she knew we did not approve. So we have told her she will need to find a mover and mover her. When she is settled she can call and let us know her address. This may sound cruel but she was told after she moved into assisted living this would be the last time any of us would help her move. So now she lays around all day crying, trying to get someone, anyway to feel sorry for her. Oh I am sure she has found someone that buys into her drama. We have long cared anymore what she says about us. As for my middle brother, he did go see her on sunday-and did what he had to do. We are convinced she will end up in the ER before she moves on the 11th. By the way, when she moved out of her apartment, which was small, she had to get rid of almost everything. She has very little and now she has to start all over and without her family espeically me helping her. She does not drive and she has lost her daughter in laws long ago. My brothers have told her they will visit her after she moves. The jury is still out for me. But for now i am not ready to deal with this woman.

(((((((playa)))))) I am glad you are staying away - regardling caretaking toxic famliy members, psychologist Pauline Boss wrote "Your goal is to be humane, but also to prevent yourself from being hurt further".At this point my emphasis is on the latter part - ...prevent yourself from being hurt further. Your NM is extremely toxic to you and the whole famly. She is capable of making her own arrangements. Don't respond to her sick messages. I told my mother after this last move that I would not move her again except into an NH. She had to start over again to buying furniture etc this last move. At this point, I am not sure I would even be involved in a move to an NH. The person she pays to help her could do that. Why? Because it opens me up to further harm. After this last session of nastiness, I have to retreat further to protect myself. I recommend you do the same, and start working on improving your own health. Back to therapy sounds like a good idea. Focus on you, and making your life as good as you can. I am not dropping all my responsibilities towards my mother totally - I am available for the ALF, the hospital, her doctor or any other professional who is dealing with her to contact me, but I want no direct contact with her, as the hurts come sooner or later - you know the story. I would rather, even at my age, if it was necessary, take a job to pay for someone else to deal with mother. As far as the guilt and being raised catholic -God does not "guilt" us - He loves us. Feelings of guilt are not from Him. I found online an excellent article with many scripture references about a Christian's responsibility towards toxic family members. I wish I had kept the link, I didn't, but in essence, the article showed very clearly that we are not expected to stay in the situation and be abused. You can continue to pray for your NM, but you are not expected to put up with abuse. God does not want you angry and ill from her treatment of you. Break away and look after you, and become the person He designed you to be. (((((((Hugs))))))

Thank you all for your support & understanding. My mother passed away this morning. I'm sorry I really have nothing more I can say right now.

I am so sorry for your loss...as difficult as they may be, they are still a parent.

((((((((Hugs))))))) Asymp - my condolences. I am sure you have a lot of emotions right now. Do come back and let us know how you are, when you are ready to more (((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))) Joan

ASympathiser: I'm sorry to hear about your mom. You did all you could to make her life easier and I hope that gives you some comfort. My dad passed away 10 days ago. Sending you love and white light. Cattails

Good morning everyone, havent been on here for awhile. The last time I was on, I told you NM decided she was not going to stay in assisted living. She already had been told by my brothers, they would not help her. I have not talked to her since the 1st of august. She has called several times leaving voicemails-none which I have returned. Her last message she begged for forgiveness-said she was so sorry for the way she treated me-that she was amean mean mother-and in the end told me how much she needed me. Well she needed me to help her with this move. So she finds this place at another retirement community-not an apartment but a duplex However she failed to ask about their no smoking policy-she assumed since it was a duplex. Only to find out she cannot smoke inside her duplex because she is renting. My brothers were not happy about this. Their is smoking on campus but since that is changing to no smoking in march-because of her reputation of not following the rules-was told she could not smoke anywhere on campus. They informed her she could tear up the lease and get her money back. She did not. So she moved-mostly on her own. She has some convinced how awful her kids are and they buy into her bs-so they have helped her some. She is smoking in her duplex and she hasnt even been there a month. She has a very very short walk and she is off campus and could smoke The weather has been nice enough for that but will soon be very cold. she says she is lonely but happy that she doesnt have others telling her what to do. I had managed to get her back to feeling good but already she has went back to her old habits and has started not feeling good. But I am done. I dont even feel guilty anymore. She hasnt called me back-she is content with my three brothers visiting and taking her out to eat. Will I have ever talk or see her again. Oh I am sure I will. But for now, I need space and more time away from her. It never was easy before but this time, it was very easy to back away After she left that nasty voicemail telling me to butt out-I realized it was time to do just that. I am at peace. Thanks again for all your support and for those who are still struggling with this-have faith and be strong.

Thank you all for your kind remarks. I've managed to wrangle the time off work to clean out my mother's unit and sort through paperwork...still ongoing.
I'm very angry at my sister for not putting in more effort to help me. Even our brother stepped forward to help out more and he hasn't even spent time with Mum for years. I'm angry that I've been made executor to both my mother's and my brothers Will's which left me with using up all my bereavement time, annual holidays for the year & sick leave on sorting out family instead of myself. I have nothing left for me and have a house full of my family's things to go through yet and get rid of. My sister was supposed to help me there, but have not heard a word from her in over two weeks since our mother's death. I haven't had much time to grieve, with having to go back to work. I'm just ANGRY at all of this! I wish I could just get passed it. It's not something I want to hang onto.

Sorry to hear of your dilemma's Playa. I feel for you! I know that deep down you are hurting.

playa - (((((((hugs))))))) glad you are taking time and space for yourself. I believe, when dealing with such personalities, we absolutely need it for our mental, and physical health. Mine is using her usual tricks to try to suck me back into communication, but i know it is not into a loving relationship, but rather a using one, as you describe, without any respect. Some walk away altogether, and I understand that. Whether I will ever get to that point, I don't know. I know I hang on thinking that this cannot go on for ever, but I am 75 now and she is 100, and her physical health is good. I am glad you are at peace. May it last.

(((((((asymp))))) I hear you - too much to deal with, and not enough time and energy for it, or, more importantly for yourself. I am glad your brother has stepped in to help. I am sorry you have had to use up all your time off this way. I share your anger at having to "mop up the messes". I still have things of mothers to sort and get rid of from her first move to an ALF. My own health issues got in the way of me dealing with them.Then she moved again, and set herself up in a 2 bedroom apt (in an ALF) with almost entirely new things, so when the time comes I will have another set of belongings to dispose of. Like yours, my sister is of no help, I hope your sister does come around once she is over the initial shock of your mum's death. Having someone to help is invaluable. Getting past the anger is a good goal. I asked my counsellor how I could do that. We haven't discussed it again as other things have come up. Sharing here helps, and I thank you for beng frank about your feelings. I find sorting mother's things is not easy. My kids don't want anything, I don't need anything more, and there are limited resources in this town for even giving things away, and I don't feel right about just tossing something that could be used by someone else. Let me know how you do.

I am back again and needing some advise as I am really troubled today. As you know I have not talked to my NM for months. I did send her a letter trying to make her understand how bad she has hurt me only for her to tell others about this nasty letter I sent her. I sent her a very basic birthday card which made her assume that all was okay. But its not and I have continued not to talk to her. When she moved from her apartment to assisted living, the family took items that was going to give away or throw away. That included me but since she now has moved into a duplex, I sent her a letter stating I was returning what I had-which my brother returned to her. Her is the dilemma-when I sent the letter I told her after I return home from my daughters on thanksgiving I would give her a call. I return on the 6th of dec. I am now having grave doubts I dont want to talk to her let alone see her. Whats bothering me is the fact that all three brothers are back talking and seeing her-she went to my middle brothers for thanksgiving and said she was happier and more content that she ever has been. My oldest brother had issues with her also but nothing like the issues I have with her. So now her boys are back and I guess she thinks we need to forget how I was treated and let it go. I have let it go so many times only to be burnt again and again. So now I am asking myself this-maybe she is happy cause I am not around-how long will her nice side stay around and why has she changed now(she is 83 and been very narristic her whole life). Also she isnt having anything to do with my young sister. my sister, in my defense hung up on her aug 9th after nm went off of me (this goes back to her going to assisted living and blaming me cause she was unhappy). My sister did not call her or send her a birthday card. My sister lives far away and like me always has had trouble relating to nm. So my sisters birthday comes around and no card and now her husbands birthday was yesterday and no card. And she has not called my sister since my sister hung up on her And its not because she hung up on her believe you me, its not the first time but nm would always call her back. Difference, my sister moved away about two years ago and my sister is to use to nm. Sorry for going on and on. You all are my therapy right now. havent been in therapy for years but looks like I am ended back soon. Another reminder, I had moved away from her years ago but moved back to the area last dec. My husband and i are now realizing that was a bad mistake and its probably time to move away again. Thanks so much for your support and any advice you can give me Have a good day

(((((playa))))) These situations are always difficult. Physical distance does help. I doubt that there is anything you can do to change things with your mother. That she "loves" your brothers and not you, and your sister is pretty dysfunctional, and very hurtful. Don 't worry about going on and on. You need to vent. Personally, in your situation, I would not worry about what I said about phoning her. If you feel now that you don't want to phone, and don't want to see her, I think it is wise to listen to yourself, and keep your distance. I don't think it will make or break the relationship with her. It is already broken, because she is not healthy. Frankly, I would be surprised if she stays "happy", I think it has little to do with you, and more that she is getting attention from her boys. My experience with my narcissistic mother is that she will be happy when she is the center of attention, but that breaks down sooner or later.Their happiness depends on others, and that never works for long. Look after yourself. You will never please her, or not for long anyway, because of who she is, not because of who you are. Do what is good for you. Accept how she is, and grieve the mother you never had, and never will have, The more you can do this the more peace you wil get. Protect yourself from further harm from her. ((((((Hugs)))) and keep in touch. Joan