A person can Showtime and pretend to be fine when they're clearly riddled w dementia, up to a certain point in time, then no more. They can fool doctors into thinking they're lucid too.....I watched mom do it for years bc she could turn small talk into an art form.
A person cannot fake their score on a cognitive exam, plain and simple.
Once this person is cognitively evaluated, you'll know if she's faking, Showtiming or simply wanting attention or to have everything done for her.
Burnt, I have seen up close 'learned helplessness'. Like many things in life, there is a spectrum of severity. The milder sort eg can't be bothered to get up so insists someone else makes the tea better.. but I have seen some awful cases I had no description for too. Until now...
Your phrase 'abusive neediness' is excellent.
The Drama Queens who can't hold a spoon "I'll STARVE if you don't feed me!" yet feed themselves very well when their caregiver leaves the room..
The woman who could get out bed, could walk to the bathroom.. but if staff were present would stop to drop pants on the bedroom carpet & pee there "look how instantly incontinent I am".
Nasty.
I also remember the old man who drove himself to the building, walked inside, then turned feeble & requested someone to fetch a wheelchair to wheel him to his destination. OK maybe he couldn't walk too far I thought.. When that worked for 3 days running I noticed he added "I need a little help in the bathroom before I leave". If you can hold your steering wheel to drive Sir, you can certainly hold your penis to urinate.
I think dementia is just a milestone down the cognitive decline route. It’s a process. Your mother didn’t change the day she got the dx. That was probably far in coming.
Firstly I do believe symptoms of dementia can vary. From month to month, from day to day, from hour to hour. Especially Vascular Dementia. Or when a person living with dementia has extra stress eg is ill, has an infection or is in hospital.
So I'd be aware of that.
But OH YES have I seen the fakers too! To be cont..
Your latest response to FedUp is funny 😆! I bet that you were a fast sprinter.
Your answer reminded me of a couple of things. I was also a very fast runner.
I could run around my house three times when daddy was trying to chase me to give me a spanking for something mom told him that I had done. He would wear himself out and couldn’t catch me.
Or I would run into the bathroom and lock the door. I always got the same warning, that when he did catch me it would be worse.
My brothers would do something and I would fight back. Mom always seemed to walk into the room when I was doing something and she didn’t see what happened five minutes before. So, I caught the blame most of the time.
People would always say that I must be the little princess being the only girl. I said, “No, growing up with brothers I learned how to defend myself!”
The only people that I couldn’t run from were the nuns at my school. Man, those rulers stung when we were hit on the hand. Thankfully, it didn’t happen too often.
Spanking kind of backfired though. I got used to those. I was more upset if I was grounded and couldn’t see my friends. My parents figured that out when I would ask for a spanking instead of being grounded.
Many people fake all types of things. Why? To get attention, of course. Not to mention that they are delusional in their thinking.
We often said that my husband’s grandmother missed her calling. She could have won an academy award for her performances! I have never seen someone cry hysterically and then suddenly stop crying on a dime like she did.
It’s really interesting, because I asked my mother in law if she thought that her mom’s behavior was from getting older. She said, “Honey, my mother has been mean my entire life! This isn’t related to her aging.”
My MIL would say, “If a person is mean when they are young, they generally remain mean as older people and if they are kind they usually stay kind.”
My friend’s mom does the same thing. She blames her daughter for everything! When she is confronted about anything she will ‘conveniently forget’ an incident so she won’t be held accountable for her actions.
She will even confess to me privately that she can cover up her actions by “playing dumb,” but absolutely no one believes that she is stupid. She is conniving and doesn’t fool her daughter.
Her daughter takes care of her and she never shows any appreciation. I don’t think that my friend will ever allow her to move in with her. She stays in the adjoining condo.
She’s another great actress and can put on a terrific show for others who often fall for her acting until they get to know her.
These people often make friends easily because they can be quite charming but as soon as people are around them for a substantial amount of time they are found out and lose their new found friendships. It’s sad really. I personally feel that people who behave in this way have a mental illness.
Some people may fake something out of fear but it isn’t habitual. The people who continually do this are most likely mentally unstable and their actions aren’t driven by fear. They are delusional and sincerely believe that they are able to deceive others.
I've suspected this in someone who has remained "helpless" with many issues in her life from being unable to figure out computers to keeping a checkbook to running her household. As she ages, it's getting worse. So far she's been able to find people to do the work for her and has even, I would say, gloated over her manipulations to get others to take care of her. She puts on a show of "independence" and "strength," (as told by her) but she's only fooling herself.
Lately she "can't remember" and has claimed to have dementia. Her family met with her doctor with her permission (she was supposed to show up for the meeting but didn't), and doctor said that she doesn't have dementia! Family's flabbergasted because as others have said, why would someone fake this? Maybe it goes along with her longtime feigned incompetence in anything she doesn't want to do for herself, which looks like an attention-getting maneuver to me. Plus she lies about things, telling different stories here and there. She is aware she lies, she says. Or is she? Maybe she lied about having dementia and didn't remember she lied? No one knows.
She does have known mental issues for which she's being treated, so I assume that they all work together to make her a sicko mess. This isn't going to get better.
I think Burnt needs to write a book. I think Caregivers with Burnts outlook survive caregiving much better when you deal with people like Burnts Mom. Or anyone who can do but takes advantage of a situation. You turn it around on them and call their bluff. The elderly needs us more than we need them so they need to learn to play nice.
My Mom was easy but my MIL was passive-aggressive. She was in a Rehab after having a UTI and I think she played her 2 sons. The 3rd son still worked and lived 8 hrs away so wasn't there. She would not do her PT. Acted like an invalid when in her room. My BIL felt we should be there from 9 to 5. I think she thought by not progressing her boys would take her home. My DH told her she couldn't go home until she proved she was strong enough. She was in PT one morning so DH stopped to watch, I went on to her room. Her roommate, an RN, told me they had a good breakfast together. She sat up in bed, ate a good breakfast and was talking. I think the roommate was trying to tell me something. Really, why would you want aides taking u to the toilet and wiping you up. I walked in before DH to find the sheet off my MIL and a tab panties on her. I covered her up. Why would u go thru that indignantly to fake something? But I do think it was faked until it wasn't. I think she went too far and at 91 she passed. She found out she was not going home but to a Rehab where the other son was living. And then she would need to chose which son she was going to be living near. She then willed herself to die. Doctor documented it as "failure to thrive."
You're right and I totally believe you when you say that your MIL faked the invalid helplessness until it became real. She thought it would result in her sons taking her home and insist upon caring for her themselves. She refused to improve (out of spite) until it could be on her terms which were that one of her sons moved her into their home. Then she'd do her PT. Then she'd do the work needed to get better. Almost like it would be her giving her sons a reward by doing her PT and getting stronger as if that's a gift to them. It's not. When a person is old it really is use it or lose it. Refusal to do PT or follow medical advice because you're trying to spite your family can quickly go from being a spite show to the new reality. Then like your MIL most just resign themselves and wait to die.
Fedup45, there's actually a psych term for this behavior: "learned incompetence". Little kids use it a lot: "I can't/don't know how to tie my shoe!" So the parent does it. When asked to clean their room or do any other task, they drag their feet and then the parent does it for them, etc. An adult doing this = mental disorder/dysfunction.
To be honest, I've had times of doubt about my sister's dementia in the past year. I've never known anyone diagnosed with vascular dementia/Alz. to become "stable" one year into the disease, much less "very stable" 6 months after that. Granted, she was under extreme stress at the time of diagnosis. I relieved her if every possible concern/responsibility causing her anxiety. She has no worries, no responsibility, and she's content...allowing her brain to relax. It functions optimally that way. Dementia symptoms have become mild, but ARE still evident. It can be difficult to maintain a clear perspective when in the middle of the whole cargiving thing. Dementia does not travel in a straight line. The most difficult thing for me is dealing with the inconsistency in my LO's abilities. Constantly having to adjust my own expectations because of her fluctuating confusion/ability to remember things creates a feeling of chaos in me. It seems like a kind of torture on my weakest days...the ground under my feet is constantly shifting. In those moments, it's easy to imagine my sister is totally faking her illness. It would make more sense than the reality...that the ground SHE stands on is nothing but quicksand.
Why would anyone want to fake this awful disease? More info would be helpful.
Besides a UTI, other medical problems can create dementia-like symptoms: thyroid problem, brain tumor, over- or under-medicating of prescription meds, abuse of opioids and sleeping pills, vitamin deficiency, dehydration, etc.
As everyone knows I've been a caregiver to a lot of elderly people. More than a few were fine mentally but often 'faked' dementia. My mother does it. She has a long history of faking other illnesses or blowing them way out of proportion to get attention. The 'Why' would someone fake dementia has many answers. A person wants to behave offensively or abusively to others with no consequences. They want attention and enjoy being the center of it because someone has to wait on them hand and foot. They like the control over others. It's a form of entertainment. When I talk about not playing the senior's "games" the faking dementia is a common one. I remember a classic example of fake dementia years ago. I worked for a lovely old lady. She was cool and we used to have a really good time together. She was sharp as a tack and the only reason she had help coming in was so she wouldn't be alone all day while her son and DIL were at work. She lived with them. I'd give her lunch (or we'd go out) then she's get up and go to the bathroom. She didn't really need any help in there. She did need someone when showering just to make sure she got in and out safely. I was with her every day for several hours except the one day a week she went to the senior center. She never had an "accident" in the two years I worked for her. Every night before I left she'd get gassy and I knew she needed to go to the bathroom. She would never go though. Not one time. So I'd leave when my shift ended and she'd stay on hr own for a bit until her DIL got home. The second that woman walked in the door my client would crap herself. Every day without fail. Then she'd claim she didn't even know she was doing it. Yes, she did. She hated her DIL and often spoke very unkindly of her to me. This was hard to believe because she was nice to me and everyone else. I told her DIL not to clean her up. To let her stay in it until her son got home and he'll clean her up. Of course she cried and pleaded and demanded, but her DIL stayed strong and didn't give in. The son came home to a house stinking of crap and a person that he now had to help in the shower. My client was absolutely mortified. So was her son. This experience put the brakes on the pants crapping every night when the DIL got home. After this the client started using the toilet before I'd leave for the night.
If someone has an Urinary Tract Infection [UTI] it can mimic dementia if someone doesn't have said diease. Thus, once the infection is gone, the person goes back to their normal behavior.
The thing about playing around with being incapable of looking after yourself is that it only works on those who aren't strong enough to call your bluff by putting you into an appropriate care facility.
My so works for a ccrc. Nine of 10 units are independent. Yes, many people have dementia, but it’s more likely they fake not having it until they can’t.
What is your question? Can a senior fake dementia? Yes, of course. People fake many things. Some people will fake an illness to get attention or to evade taking responsibility for themselves. Dementia is an illness, so why not that?
A person cannot fake their score on a cognitive exam, plain and simple.
Once this person is cognitively evaluated, you'll know if she's faking, Showtiming or simply wanting attention or to have everything done for her.
My friend can barely get her mom to go to her primary care doctor, let alone a specialist to do tests for dementia.
Her mom is a huge faker. She has excuses for everything. Her daughter is never going to allow her to live with her.
She keeps asking her daughter to retire and take care of her. It’s never going to happen because her mom would drive her crazy.
Your phrase 'abusive neediness' is excellent.
The Drama Queens who can't hold a spoon "I'll STARVE if you don't feed me!" yet feed themselves very well when their caregiver leaves the room..
The woman who could get out bed, could walk to the bathroom.. but if staff were present would stop to drop pants on the bedroom carpet & pee there "look how instantly incontinent I am".
Nasty.
I also remember the old man who drove himself to the building, walked inside, then turned feeble & requested someone to fetch a wheelchair to wheel him to his destination. OK maybe he couldn't walk too far I thought.. When that worked for 3 days running I noticed he added "I need a little help in the bathroom before I leave". If you can hold your steering wheel to drive Sir, you can certainly hold your penis to urinate.
Creep.
So I'd be aware of that.
But OH YES have I seen the fakers too! To be cont..
It’s also sad when dementia is real and we aren’t familiar with the symptoms and miss the signs.
I know that my mom was struggling with dementia before I recognized that she was.
Your latest response to FedUp is funny 😆! I bet that you were a fast sprinter.
Your answer reminded me of a couple of things. I was also a very fast runner.
I could run around my house three times when daddy was trying to chase me to give me a spanking for something mom told him that I had done. He would wear himself out and couldn’t catch me.
Or I would run into the bathroom and lock the door. I always got the same warning, that when he did catch me it would be worse.
My brothers would do something and I would fight back. Mom always seemed to walk into the room when I was doing something and she didn’t see what happened five minutes before. So, I caught the blame most of the time.
People would always say that I must be the little princess being the only girl. I said, “No, growing up with brothers I learned how to defend myself!”
The only people that I couldn’t run from were the nuns at my school. Man, those rulers stung when we were hit on the hand. Thankfully, it didn’t happen too often.
Spanking kind of backfired though. I got used to those. I was more upset if I was grounded and couldn’t see my friends. My parents figured that out when I would ask for a spanking instead of being grounded.
We often said that my husband’s grandmother missed her calling. She could have won an academy award for her performances! I have never seen someone cry hysterically and then suddenly stop crying on a dime like she did.
It’s really interesting, because I asked my mother in law if she thought that her mom’s behavior was from getting older. She said, “Honey, my mother has been mean my entire life! This isn’t related to her aging.”
My MIL would say, “If a person is mean when they are young, they generally remain mean as older people and if they are kind they usually stay kind.”
My friend’s mom does the same thing. She blames her daughter for everything! When she is confronted about anything she will ‘conveniently forget’ an incident so she won’t be held accountable for her actions.
She will even confess to me privately that she can cover up her actions by “playing dumb,” but absolutely no one believes that she is stupid. She is conniving and doesn’t fool her daughter.
Her daughter takes care of her and she never shows any appreciation. I don’t think that my friend will ever allow her to move in with her. She stays in the adjoining condo.
She’s another great actress and can put on a terrific show for others who often fall for her acting until they get to know her.
These people often make friends easily because they can be quite charming but as soon as people are around them for a substantial amount of time they are found out and lose their new found friendships. It’s sad really. I personally feel that people who behave in this way have a mental illness.
Some people may fake something out of fear but it isn’t habitual. The people who continually do this are most likely mentally unstable and their actions aren’t driven by fear. They are delusional and sincerely believe that they are able to deceive others.
Lately she "can't remember" and has claimed to have dementia. Her family met with her doctor with her permission (she was supposed to show up for the meeting but didn't), and doctor said that she doesn't have dementia! Family's flabbergasted because as others have said, why would someone fake this? Maybe it goes along with her longtime feigned incompetence in anything she doesn't want to do for herself, which looks like an attention-getting maneuver to me. Plus she lies about things, telling different stories here and there. She is aware she lies, she says. Or is she? Maybe she lied about having dementia and didn't remember she lied? No one knows.
She does have known mental issues for which she's being treated, so I assume that they all work together to make her a sicko mess. This isn't going to get better.
My Mom was easy but my MIL was passive-aggressive. She was in a Rehab after having a UTI and I think she played her 2 sons. The 3rd son still worked and lived 8 hrs away so wasn't there. She would not do her PT. Acted like an invalid when in her room. My BIL felt we should be there from 9 to 5. I think she thought by not progressing her boys would take her home. My DH told her she couldn't go home until she proved she was strong enough. She was in PT one morning so DH stopped to watch, I went on to her room. Her roommate, an RN, told me they had a good breakfast together. She sat up in bed, ate a good breakfast and was talking. I think the roommate was trying to tell me something. Really, why would you want aides taking u to the toilet and wiping you up. I walked in before DH to find the sheet off my MIL and a tab panties on her. I covered her up. Why would u go thru that indignantly to fake something? But I do think it was faked until it wasn't. I think she went too far and at 91 she passed. She found out she was not going home but to a Rehab where the other son was living. And then she would need to chose which son she was going to be living near. She then willed herself to die. Doctor documented it as "failure to thrive."
You're right and I totally believe you when you say that your MIL faked the invalid helplessness until it became real.
She thought it would result in her sons taking her home and insist upon caring for her themselves. She refused to improve (out of spite) until it could be on her terms which were that one of her sons moved her into their home. Then she'd do her PT. Then she'd do the work needed to get better. Almost like it would be her giving her sons a reward by doing her PT and getting stronger as if that's a gift to them. It's not.
When a person is old it really is use it or lose it. Refusal to do PT or follow medical advice because you're trying to spite your family can quickly go from being a spite show to the new reality. Then like your MIL most just resign themselves and wait to die.
So the why would be to manipulate and get what he or she wants.
It functions optimally that way. Dementia symptoms have become mild, but ARE still evident.
It can be difficult to maintain a clear perspective when in the middle of the whole cargiving thing.
Dementia does not travel in a straight line. The most difficult thing for me is dealing with the inconsistency in my LO's abilities. Constantly having to adjust my own expectations because of her fluctuating confusion/ability to remember things creates a feeling of chaos in me. It seems like a kind of torture on my weakest days...the ground under my feet is constantly shifting.
In those moments, it's easy to imagine my sister is totally faking her illness. It would make more sense than the reality...that the ground SHE stands on is nothing but quicksand.
Why would anyone want to fake this awful disease? More info would be helpful.
Besides a UTI, other medical problems can create dementia-like symptoms: thyroid problem, brain tumor, over- or under-medicating of prescription meds, abuse of opioids and sleeping pills, vitamin deficiency, dehydration, etc.
As everyone knows I've been a caregiver to a lot of elderly people. More than a few were fine mentally but often 'faked' dementia. My mother does it. She has a long history of faking other illnesses or blowing them way out of proportion to get attention.
The 'Why' would someone fake dementia has many answers.
A person wants to behave offensively or abusively to others with no consequences.
They want attention and enjoy being the center of it because someone has to wait on them hand and foot.
They like the control over others. It's a form of entertainment.
When I talk about not playing the senior's "games" the faking dementia is a common one.
I remember a classic example of fake dementia years ago. I worked for a lovely old lady. She was cool and we used to have a really good time together. She was sharp as a tack and the only reason she had help coming in was so she wouldn't be alone all day while her son and DIL were at work. She lived with them.
I'd give her lunch (or we'd go out) then she's get up and go to the bathroom. She didn't really need any help in there. She did need someone when showering just to make sure she got in and out safely. I was with her every day for several hours except the one day a week she went to the senior center.
She never had an "accident" in the two years I worked for her.
Every night before I left she'd get gassy and I knew she needed to go to the bathroom. She would never go though. Not one time. So I'd leave when my shift ended and she'd stay on hr own for a bit until her DIL got home.
The second that woman walked in the door my client would crap herself. Every day without fail. Then she'd claim she didn't even know she was doing it.
Yes, she did. She hated her DIL and often spoke very unkindly of her to me. This was hard to believe because she was nice to me and everyone else.
I told her DIL not to clean her up. To let her stay in it until her son got home and he'll clean her up. Of course she cried and pleaded and demanded, but her DIL stayed strong and didn't give in.
The son came home to a house stinking of crap and a person that he now had to help in the shower.
My client was absolutely mortified. So was her son. This experience put the brakes on the pants crapping every night when the DIL got home.
After this the client started using the toilet before I'd leave for the night.
My so works for a ccrc. Nine of 10 units are independent. Yes, many people have dementia, but it’s more likely they fake not having it until they can’t.
Some people will fake an illness to get attention or to evade taking responsibility for themselves. Dementia is an illness, so why not that?