When is enough enough with narcissistic parents?

Yes, she and my father were very jealous of my husband.

Rena, I have been doing very well with my mother and brother but this was one of those bizarre conversations you have and just sit back and go "how did that happen?" Because mom didn't want to educate her children, she resents anyone who does. She loves to throw in my face that "not everyone was meant to go to college". That is her way of saying I wasn't capable. But she, however, was so very smart (in her mind).

She looks for slights at every corner. She told my brother I asked her for money to feed my kids 25+ years ago. And I was not to be trusted around her money because I would "blow through it all". All lies. And I have been left out of all family financial plans and POAs etc. ever since. Good Lord I am as frugal as you can get without being a total coconut. And no she does not have dementia.

So what would Anonymous call this? Just being a little mean? A petty little old lady? Just not normal.

palmtrees1, it looks like your mother is a typical narcissistic mother and you are a typical scapegoat (exactly my story as well). My mother is 94 and solves crossword puzzles, reads literature, and cooks like a professional cook! She tells terrible lies about me and my family to me and anyone who'd listen. She's shameless! This is what she told me on Mother's Day last month: "I was looking through some old things and I found a letter you wrote to me when you became a mother. You wrote: I wonder is it ever possible, could I ever become an ideal mother like you mom?" Can you believe this? What do you say to that? I only said I don't remember ever writing this and it's not my style. She completely makes up stories where I or my loved ones are the bad guys and she is the victim! I have learned to kind of sense now (even on the phone) that she's in one of her moods and I make the conversation short. I'm in my late 50s with adult children and I only realized, with the help of a good doctor, what is going on. I wish I knew when my mother was younger. She's always been like this; it's not old age. Actually her rages were even more scary when she was younger. If I knew 35 years ago what I know now, I'd have gone no contact with her. Now I'm trying to keep low contact and it's not working all the time. Hugs

Rena I know it could only be funny to an outsider, but that letter you supposedly wrote to your mother… :|) Are you sure it wasn't you??? Maybe you were high as a kite on pain meds or something..!

Rena, this makes me think of the old Bette Davis movie - Now, Voyager. Now THAT was one scary mother!

Countrymouse, LOL I know I didn't write it. After she insisted that she has the letter, along with other memorabilia of mine, I said: "OK I'll collect this letter and all the other things next time I see you". She replied that she already got rid of all, except some photos!!! And, supposedly, I wrote the letter when my child was young, but not a newborn, so no excuse from meds! (LOL) Besides she came to be with me when I had my baby; her behavior is a long, ugly, and painful story that I might share another time. I'll just say she created chaos, she made me cry, she couldn't make herself touch the baby; when a happy, young nurse put my daughter in her arms, she held her as far away from her body as her extended arms could reach and screamed: take her, I can't hold her, take her away!!!

Linda, I need to see that movie! A narcissistic mother is scary. Hugs

Palmtrees - yes - on what everyone here is saying - she was baiting you to play their favorite game - cat and mouse.

Rena - you are so right about that "something in her eyes and a weird, sadistic, half-smile". I have noticed more and more that look - maybe with the stroke my mother can't hide it as well. What was eerie one time when I was there - I watched her change from attacker to victim in a nano second! Then when I was there last - since I am more educated in all this - I can see in her eyes first the change begin from having a nice conversation to Time to GO!

Oh and the lies! Isn't that amazing! My personal favorite was when my daughter was little my parents had taken her on a few vacations - and my mom did watch her once a week for about 2 months when I was a single mom - I caught her telling someone that "she practically raised her" LOL! I thought I was going to pee myself from laughing so hard! And if there is anything that shows her in a less that perfect light - oh I don't remember that! hahahaha.

All very familiar. I know "the look" well. My mother once went to a family who were very good friends of mine and told them I was a lesbian. Not such an issue these days maybe, but in Scotland in the 60s it was, and also had no basis in fact. She was trying to defame me to take attention off her own bad behaviour. It didn't succeed - they knew me and her too well. (((((hugs)))) to all of us for surviving and being decent human beings

Emjo - LOL - a lesbian eh? Well does Gary know? I bet that was a bit of a scandal in the 60's - don't know much about Scotland though.

That "look" is scary!

Scotland is more uptight than England, if anything. Wearing slacks was frowned on, never mind being a lesbian. Gary knows different, lol. Yes, the "look" is scary. Mother has piercing china blue eyes - cold as ice at times. I don't remember a warm touch or hug from her as a child and I think may I got one or two awkward hugs as an adult. Thankfully my father was warm and affectionate.

sad1daughter, emjo I'm so grateful I have this blog. The lies and the badmouthing, the rages, and the put downs, the neediness, the drama. We need to get over this somehow. Honestly, knowing what I now know, I would have cut all contact with my mother many years ago. As it is now, I can't make myself do it because she is 94 and her golden child is a huge mess and he can't be there for her as he was up until a year ago or so.
All this pain we feel, the anguish, the stress, the Fear/Obligation/Guilt can't be good for our health. And it also affects our spouses and children. I haven't found a way to put all this out of my mind yet. I am at a much better shape than what I was in 2012, but I feel I have a long way to go. Hugs to all

Wow! Both my mother and brother have cold blue eyes and when they are focusing on you and they also have this eerie little half smile ...run for your life!

Lol, my mother went through a phase maybe about 7 or 8 years ago (before any dementia was evident), when she would comment maybe a half dozen times when I'd visit or call, how "They're really 'dumbing down' Jeopardy." Are they??? Because it's always pretty challenging for me. And even though she's never watched the show religiously, I've never seen her do anything more than passively watch. I've NEVER seen her jump in with an answer.
Another story she likes to tell which really turns my stomach -- when my father passed away in the hospital over 4 years ago, she insists that the nurses told her "he was waiting for you to arrive" (before he died) "to say goodbye." Gag me.

looloo this is really amazing! Your mother is so similar to mine! Like yours, she likes to find something I'm not good at and proceed to make a point about how good she is! And about your dad, what a drama queen! This is exactly what my mother would say!
Another "funny" incident that comes to mind: Mother has gone out of her way to tell me to my face what a bad daughter/sister I am and how I'll have to live with my conscience when she dies and how she's ashamed of me. Nevertheless, her gigantic sense of competition got the best of her and one time out of the blue she said: "I have the best children in the world! Produce children like mine, if you can!" My children were already adults!

Oh how funny loo loo. They think the world revolves around their heads.

After posting on this site about my mother's crazy comments I had a nice discussion with my daughter about her grand mother. You know one of the dumb "educated" ones. She explained my mother very well and told me that she sees a purely evil side to her. Tells me my mistake is trying to have a relationship with my mother and how it is not possible. The comment about the evil streak really hit home. I didn't realize that my daughter saw through her so well. My other two daughters have nothing to do with her at all.

Still sometimes it makes me sad that I can't have a relationship with my own mother. Maybe tomorrow will be better and I won't be hurt by her snide remarks.

Rena58 -- I'm cracking up! Your mother challenging you to produce children as good as hers -- and you've already produced children! I think they need to feel so clever, to always have the last word, that sometimes they end up saying the most laughably ridiculous things.
Palmtrees1 - Your daughter is right. I remember realizing my mother had a real 'mean streak' but yes, evil is a good word too. And yes, there will come a day when her comments will sting a lot less.

rena - I have thought that too. If I knew back then what I know now, I would have cut contact. Jealousy was mentioned earlier. I have seen that in my mother and my sister, and also in my daughter who has narc tendencies. I could never figure it out till I realised it was the disorder. They have good lives. Why be jealous? They do have some tension between cutting you down, but wanting the world to know that they produced wonderful children. Mother used to tell me I would kill her with the way I was. Haven't been successful so far. ;p Mother would go on and on about my clothing, wanting to go shopping with me then sitting like a queen and commenting on what I tried on. I finally clued in years ago and refused to do this any more. She would give me the impression that she wanted to buy me something, but what she wanted was to make comments - and they weren't compliments. She often made cutting remarks -no matter how good I looked. I would get compliments at work and she would find something wrong with what I had on. She had very old fashioned clothing made for me when I was a teen. I will never forget one gunmetal dress - it was not suitable and was supposed to be a party dress, and another one that made me look like a prison warden - blue and white stripes. Finally I got old enough to go to a store and buy my own clothing. Again, I will never forget the first dress I bought - navy blue with white piping around the collar. I looked and felt pretty in it. I made myself some clothing that I felt good in. I think it still affects me. She wanted me to dress in oversized clothing. Not too many years ago we were in the a mall and I saw a sale in a leather store and had been wanting a black leather jacket. I was with mother and I guess I forget how she was. We went in and I tried on a few jackets. One was good, but she brought another sizes bigger - like a mans XL - and told me to try it on as the one I had on didn't fit properly. The staff were rolling their eyes. There was a cute "bad girl" biker chick jacket I liked and wish I had gotten. I don't wear the one got and may give it away -bad memories attached.

It is not good for our health and we need to do what we need to do to protect ourselves. G (sig other) is pretty understanding but he does not get the extent to which I get stressed. I have not answered the phone to mother for months, as she made 3 calls a day during the winter which were just plain crazy as her paranoia increased. It triggered my PTSD, I would listen to the voice mails in case there was anything that really needed to be dealt with. There were 2 real concerns out of all the calls. She doesn't call me any more, but has other people call me. I set the boundary that if she took her antipsychotic meds I would answer the phone, and if she didn't, I wouldn't. She is not taking it. Whew, I guess I needed to vent!!!

palmtrees - my daughter has told me to drop the POA more than once. I agree a normal relationship of any kind is impossible. I see an evil side. As a teen and young adult there were times I was afraid for my life, literally. and barricaded my bedroom door. The rages, and that "evil" look were very scary.

looloo, I know! If this is was said in a comedic movie, it would get a lot of laughs! Another time, after she had put down my house as really looking bad, poorly designed, cheap materials, and going even further as to say the whole neighborhood reminds her of the free housing the government in her country provides for poor immigrants (btw, I -unfortunately- live in one of the most expensive cities in the country in a very pretty townhouse community where most residents have become good friends); then, a few days later, she was talking on the phone with a friend of hers describing her daughter's house (my house!) as a palace!!! Go figure!

H'm. I don't worry about my kids' or Lovely Nephew 4's relationship with MIL - I think they have her sussed, though one daughter does have a tendency to be slightly too self-sacrificing.

But just thinking it through, I've spotted a chink in the armour - my SIL. If MIL were to use SIL (the scapegoat daughter, and how!) as intermediary, the children would find it much, much harder to keep up those nice healthy boundaries because they wouldn't want to hurt or disappoint their auntie, or get her into trouble. Thank you, wise and experienced people - I will ensure that everyone has the right hymn sheet learned by heart. Forewarned is forearmed.

Emjo, I hear you. It is not possible to have a normal relationship, indeed. I know the rages and the evil look. It was and still is scary. I know what you mean about our significant others not being able to understand fully; My husband now does, but it took him a while because he comes from a normal, loving family. That's why I love this blog! What stories we all have about our clothes and our looks. I can't remember myself getting any piece of clothing ever and not being careful to get something that would make me look thinner. And in retrospect I wasn't at all overweight! The more we talk about this, the more stories come to the surface for me; I think this is good. I have buried many things deep inside, but it's good to get them out. One thing I should strive for is take my mother (and my brother) a little more lightly and not as seriously as I do. Your mother calling you and calling you is so typical. Hugs

thx rena. Having a parent and a sib with similar disorders makes it much more difficult - then throw in a child as well. I do think we need to share. It is healing. It was sharing with someone a few years ago that I realised that I had been caregiving in various forms since I was quite young. Mother plays the victim too and gets upset if you don't take her side, and then the sh*t hits the fan. Mother labelled my sister as the pretty one and me as the smart one. But she threw in a curve which was that sometimes I was a little too smart. The first time I thought of myself as pretty was at my sister's wedding when my uncle gave me a hug and said I looked prettier than the bride. It was a moment I will never forget. I hadn't ever thought of myself as pretty. I still struggle with the childhood messages of being overweight and not good looking and needing to hide myself in oversized clothing. My daughter, for all her problems, several times in my life has given me a boost by giving me a nice outfit or by giving me positive feedback. It has helped.

cm -be careful. They will go to any lengths to manipulate.

Rena, I think what's going on is that we are mere tools to achieve whatever end result they desire at that moment. When talking to others, they use us to either brag about, to elicit sympathy by portraying themselves as the victim, to gossip about because having information (even incorrect) is the currency they trade in. While they may brag on our accomplishments to others, they are dismissive about the same when talking with us because they need to keep feeling superior.

Well said, Linda .

This is a quote from a post on a blog I get about narcissists.

Narcissists Take Your Life Away
by Linda Martinez-Lewi, PhD

The narcissist is a master at extracting the pulp and juice of others-their time, talent, creative ideas, energies-to serve his (her) purpose alone...All relationships with narcissistic individuals are exploitive..." (From: Freeing Yourself from the Narcissist in Your Life ).

My mother repeatedly told people that she was responsible for bringing my daughter and her husband together. My daughter was fuming and so I called Mom on it. Truth was they'd been good friends since high school and all Mom did was comment to my daughter that he really looked handsome in his tux (it was at a wedding). She tried to take credit for my cooking until I started chiming in that I couldn't boil water when I married.

Emjo - exactly! I'm surprised she hasn't already spotted this one - either I've got to it in time :) or she imagines we all treat SIL as badly as she does and would just ignore her anxiety and distress, so it wouldn't work. High days and holy days are a three line whip, but they always have been and nobody minds that; it's when she gets to work on the children having to 'drop in' more that we'll need to watch it.

Can anyone answer me this (sorry to harp on about SIL, but she's not been well and she's much on my mind): if you're the scapegoat daughter, do you tend to overcompensate for your mother? Ref the finding anything to criticise angle -

not to mention the back-handed compliment! OH MY GOD are they a speciality. "Darling! You've done it! - Finally you've lost weight!" was a real scorcher

- SIL goes the other way. E.g. one of the children does well in an exam becomes "Child X is a genius in whatever subject it was." Another studies Politics at college: "Child Y could be Prime Minister one day!" I mean, it's very sweet, and I used to find it endearing when the children were little and didn't have flourishing careers of their own already, thank you; but it's also a bit bonkers? She's not being insincere, just wildly overenthusiastic. Is this a compensation mechanism?

Wow - just shopped for a few hours - and look at all the posts! It is so sad that we all have such sad and painful memories of growing up and our self esteem. My mother (until her stroke) would bring up incidences of when I was a teenager or younger to try to shame me. Why I never blasted her is beyond me...I just sit there like the dutiful daughter I was groomed to be. I don't know if I ever shared this - but after reading Your Not Crazy, It's your Mother - I found my baby book - that she kept up until I was about 8. I was the perfect child until I was 7 - then all of a sudden I was too sensitive, too whiney, too this and that. I probably wasn't doing the worship mother thing and was becoming my own person. At that time my brother was 2 - so attention went to turning him into the "perfect child". hahaha! he turned out to be just like her. Sadly- I think my daughter has too. My daughter had always been able to say what she wanted to mom - and when my dad (who was wonderful) was passing she and mom got in a huge fight..and my daughter had not forgiven her. It honestly has been the last year or so that my daughter has gotten to be sympathetic towards my mother - yet does nothing or doesn't visit. I think it is to play on my guilt. Get stronger with one - weaker with another...

So funny too - how we all have a similar story about how our mothers are responsible for some great thing...raising children, grandchildren, fixing up couples, smarter and prettier than anyone...good grief!

linda - yes, they always have to be in control and seen to be important. Sad really.

cm - maybe sil has narc tendencies too. Wildly enthusiastic indeed! I am sorry she is not well. It may be overcompensation. It is difficult, if not impossible to be normal around a narc - you have to detach to get back to normal. Backhanded compliments - yes. After a while you realise you are just being used.

sad - I sat there perhaps dutifully, certainly feeling that discretion was the better part of valour, listening to garbage. Eventually I learned to change the subject or leave. What a shame you turned into your own person - NOT! My sis is supposed to be an extension of mother, I know. I did not cooperate, but she will still be derogatory about sis when she feels like it. My daughter says what she wants to her grandmother too. I would not own anything regarding her visiting her g'ma or not - nothing to do with you really.

I looked up the life expectancy of vascular dementia. Mother is in the early stages and she is fine physically. 4-5 years as far as I can tell. I estimate a bit longer as mother is so fit, unless she has a stroke from high BP during one of her fits. I can hope. Terrible thing to say, I know, but she would like to be out of her own misery.