When is enough enough with narcissistic parents?

cmcwrinkl1, did your father pamper her? I know there are two types of NPD, engulfing and what's the other? Sounds like your mom is the other type?

Sounds like you were definitely parentified, her role given to you. My mom did the same to me although she didn't neglect me...She cooked and shopped, etc. and worked hard to make a nice home for dad and I...but she treated me like her counselor and that caused me to lose myself and not have a normal childhood...

Don't we as caregivers, assume the same role reversal? I am angry about that and because i'm disabled, really can''t take on any other job and don't want to...I'm good at it, after all, I've had a lot of practice!!!

Smitty, my mother was mostly pampered by her grandparents and parents as a child. As an adult, her grandmothers and parents and even her younger sisters pampered her and paid for many things. I'm still trying to understand the relationship she and my father had. But I'm learning that what money he ever manipulated out of people he often spent on her/them. I know it's kind of confusing. For most of my childhood my parents racked up debt and my grandparents helped with personal loans for big items like cars, a house, to start a business. By the time I was in high-school, the ground was cracking beneath them and utilities were being cut off and friends brought us food, clothing, toilet paper.

I moved out at 17 and shortly after it all caught up with them. They lost the house, moved their 5 remaining kids into a 2 bedroom mobile home. I was on my own. About 7 years later, two of my brothers, in their early 20s, bought a double wide for the family. My parents were supposed to buy it from them after a few years. They never did. Last year, when the double-wide was foreclosed, my brothers' credit and finances took a huge beating.

I have only connected all the dots this year. I spent my life believing my parents were unlucky and a little bit irresponsible. But now I see that they were grossly irresponsible and even manipulative and refused to take care of anyone or even themselves and luck had nothing to do with it.

Smitty, from what I've read, it's 'engulfing' and 'ignoring'. My mother didn't ignore exactly--she actually hovered quite a bit when I was a young child, especially re-school stuff. But she was fundamentally disinterested, or she actively disliked, my individuality. And that got worse as I got older. She is a 'cerebral' narcissist, and seemed to care mainly about 'intelligence.' Was I bright, or highly intelligent, or gifted, or successful? And how did that compare to others? She has always seemed to have a need to feel cheated, betrayed, let down -- by life in general, by her children in particular. It did become a self-fulfilling prophecy, for sure. A total no-win situation.

If those are the two types, then my parents were 'ignoring'. Though we did have constricting rules. I was not allowed to wear pants til 8th grade. Couldn't cut my hair until I was 15. Asking to shave my legs was full of drama. No dances in school. Weird stuff like that. Dad made those rules. Mom pretended to disagree but she didn't fight him about them.

I'm learning Mom is very good at pretending to agree or disagree depending on the situation.

Mom is completely Jeckyl Hyde today...she buttered me up so I would go to the dept store and buy her an outfit...I returned and she quickly escalated into an evil person once she didn't like the outfit...and once I didn't do her bidding.

Then she wanted to talk about Comfortkeepers...that the people arent' good enough..(she refers to them as the fat one and the skinny one) LOL...i said i don't want to discuss it and she flipped out...'you don't care about your mother...you have no sympathy for me....I told her i will not feel sorry for her....that sent her through the roof!! she turned abusive and I asked her why she thought i didn't care...(my therapist taught me to ask questions when she gets nuts..) She then said "i'm ordering you out of the house"...the look on her face was UGLY!! I've never seen her so ugly before...

I think she had a glass of wine when I was out...She's on narcotics and that might explain why she turned ugly...

I feel like an abused animal...I can't believe how quickly she can turn...I am now downstairs after telling her i won't put up with her behavior...on the way downstairs, she said "God help you". and that I was a horrible daughter...I reminded myself that she's nuts and am not letting it bother me, or trying not to...It still hurts like hell.

Any ideas on what to do when you're being abused...leaving the room works until she needs something...

Now she's pounding on the floor to get my attention...WACKO!

cmcwrinkl1, maybe it was a good thing you moved out...were both your parents narcissistic? I can't remember from prior posts.

looloo i completely get what you're saying...it wasn't okay to have my own opinions, ideas, feelings...did your mom allow you to have thoughts and feelings at all? Mine would always say "you shouldn't think that way, or 'you shouldn't feel that way.." it caused me untold harm throughout my life until now as I come out of the fog, so to speak. Have you read up on NPD?

Good Lord above these narcs can be borderline evil.

I think part of my mom's "ugly" mornings has to do with drinks the night before. She has always enjoyed a cocktail or two before dinner, and though she hides it I am suspicious that she still has them.

Most mornings I try to wait until close to noon to see her. generally her hangover has lifted, her meds have kicked in and she has had something to eat. Go before 10 and watch out!

Everything she accuses me of when we argue is exactly what she's doing!!! It's only projection, the sky is not falling...AHHHHHHHHHHH! I can't live here anymore...i feel so trapped.

MizVic my mother too would have a couple of cocktails then wine...couldn't call her after 5 - or it was ugly. That's why I never put the NPD together until she had the stoke and was no longer drinking - personality was the same. It is like Dr Jeckle and Mr Hyde for sure.

Smith - mine does the same thing too - while I am talking she interrupts and then says I am interrupting...um...I was talking. If I just let her talk - she would never stop...and then talks over me. I just stopped playing that game too - doesn't go anywhere, as she isn't listening to a thing I say. I have set her up with email - which at least I can write what is important without being drowned out. I think that you need to see about living elsewhere to save your sanity...if you can - or is she at the point of asst living?

Well!
I just got home from being at the hospital for the past 5 hours for mom, who told a health worker at the AL center she was going to jump out the window. That is no joke, so they hauled her in to the ER where she found herself being interviewed by a psych and social worker. When they came to talk to me, eventually the social worker asked me if I would go get Stop Walking On Eggshells. Mom has borderline personality disorder. I already have that book!! BPD and NPD are frequently found together. The psych ward wont take anybody with dementia, but the orders are to get her a geriatric psychiatrist, which I will coordinate.

As big of a pain in the a55 tonight was, I am doing a happy dance. I feel like I must won something vecause somebody credible figured this out in a couple hours. I was right!!!!

Nobody lectured me about how mom's problems are all my fault and if I would just do xyz differently, she'd be ok. They didn't act shocked when I told her story of growing up, and my story of growing up with her bratty stunts. Mom was in the stabilization room thinking she was fooling everybody and not fooling anybody. She was also picking at her skin and scratching like she has chicken pox. The doctor seemed to think it was more about anxiety than a medical problem.
I think he's onto something.

The social worker asked mom if she'd learned any lessons tonight! I almost laughed out loud.

((((((hugs))))))) sandwich - some of this sounds familiar. Once mother talked about jumping out the window the pysch went into action. My mother has BPD and is narcissistic. It really does help when the professionals confirm what you already knew. I am so glad that you got some support. I hope your mum will be placed in the right facility now - with staff that can deal with mental illness. This is what is happening to my mother. She has been pretty quiet in hospital so far, but recently the anger is showing. I suspect it will come out more and more now. She can only contain herself so long. I so understand your relief from being validated. It still isn't easy but it is easier.

Yay Sandwich! What a validation for you and the support must have felt empowering!

Awesome, sandwich! Isn't it great to have that confirmation from a professional?

Is it probable that some adults raised like we we're have traits of NPD or BPD? I have been diagnosed with BPD which was caused by her neglect and craziness..Just wondering...

The article on this page decribes characteristics of narcissistic mothers. It describes my life. Section #9 talks about the older narcissistic mother.

Things have gotten much worse now that my mother is elderly, widowed, has health problems and expects to get help.

smitty, you asked if both my parents were NPD and yes, they were. I always knew dad was but couldn't figure my mom out. Of course, I stayed way from about 1990 to 2010 when dad died. Mostly because after moving halfway across the country to go to school, then get on with my life, I could rarely afford to visit. I probably visited less than 10 times in that time period. My parents didn't reach out (surprise) and while I wrote them lots of letters, I received few in return. Maybe two, I think. Now I understand why. Before, I thought it was all my fault. Isn't that just the way they do, make you feel everything is your fault when it isn't!

This past two weeks has been helpful for me, but jarring. I see my mother so clearly now. The bad thing is that I find it extremely hard to do anything with her or for her. The good thing is she just moved to an IL place and is getting government benefits and a little money from my BIL (who hasn't been burned by her yet), so I am free to let go of things now. What's so frustrating is how much of a struggle I am having with letting go. The old pattern is still there, the old pull to take care of them.

I do live 3 hours away from her and 2 hours from my siblings. I have not called or talked to my Mom in 5 days and the guilt tells me it has been longer. None of us kids is able to do much at all. I think my sister, whose buttons were recently triggered and is in the Mom needs help phase right now, is helping Mom. But I don't really know. I don't know if its better if I minimize communication or try to keep lines open with sis to keep tabs.

Tonight I'm feeling especially conflicted. Oh well.

I just re-read my post and need to correct myself. I figured dad was npd about 10 years ago, maybe 8 years ago. I spent most of my life feeling bad about not wanting to be around them and not understanding what was going on. I thought it as just his depression triggering mine. It was way more than that.

I would like to see more scientific/medical research on BPD/NPD and dementia. I thought I'd read it's natural for people to regress with dementia even without a complicated personality disorder, which includes going back to very childish behaviors that are also selfish, narrow in focus, and possibly mean.

I wonder is there a point where anybody with dementia can mimic the behaviors for NPD/BPD, and could possibly even pass an eval. I know the hospital up here wouldn't put mom in the psych ward for her behavior last night because of the dementia. Sadly, the ER couldn't find a medical reason to keep her other than blood sugar over 250.

I am convinced my mom is a robot under her skin. Anybody else would be dead from the decades of strong prescription drugs she's had, the strokes, the diabetes, the reduced liver & kidney function, and living at such a high strung, high anxiety level for 76 years. A regular human couldn't exist like this.

Sandwich - my mom can...minus the prescription drugs though. Smoking, drinking, no exercise , junky fatty foods...cancer 2 times. Amazing isn't it?? My mother was always discussed that I run and work out, participated in my kids school and sports - just didn't get it. I guess I just didn't see myself playing bridge all day getting hammered while my kids did sports...makes me wonder why she even had my brother and I.

My mom was given a new anti anxiety drug...she is refusing to take. Wants a print out of what it is. Basically it's that and calm down or go into the dementia care unit. Still waiting for the results of the ct scan too.

You can't change an aging parent's behaviors, only how you react. I have a narcissistic mother, too. She still drives me crazy sometimes, but I just try to brush it off or change the subject if it's appropriate. If she gets too mean or hateful I just say I'm not going to argue about these things since it's getting us nowhere, get up, calmly leave and say I'll talk to her in a day or two once this passes. Surprisingly she even called and apologized after a couple such encounters. Possibly this is because I'm the only family member she hasn't cut off permanently, but after years of these ups and downs I'm not in the mood for being dragged through the mud anymore.

My current dilemma is now that I know not to take the abuse and have been walking out or not engaging like I used to - she is taking it out on the people at the AL instead as I am not going as often. So - do I go and take the abuse so she is calmer there... But I feel horrible again from the way I am treated - or give it more time and hope she will adjust. She is refusing the meds - they were crushing it before - but she doesn't always eat the food - as it is crap as she says - so it is hit and miss. Ugh. No good options.

Mother's day is coming and I have mixed feelings...I already do so much for her I don't want to do anything more, if you know what I mean...Yesterday we had a spat after I asked her if she liked my haircut...She stared at me and said.."it looks the same length" Then she said "I like the two other photos of you." My heart sank...I'm still feeling hurt and sad and can't shake it...I don't even want to take care of her today...

She is another person with the other caregivers who come here...Sweet, friendly, kind, and with me, she is COLD...

I'm just tired of it

Cmcwrinkl1, how do you feel keeping that distance for 5 days? I know I feel less suffocated and used...I suspect you felt more freedom while you were living your life compared to how you feel now...that can answer your question about what to do next? I don't know...

I was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder about 6 years ago...o any of you or your siblings have this diagnosis? I wonder if it's common, because you pick up that sensitivity from years of being blamed and shamed.

Of course mom was never diagnosed with more than clinical depression and anxiety...d*mn that makes me mad! I've always been the 'identified patient' in the family, the scapegoat...but realize now that it wasnt' my fault, just my parents' way of shedding their issues.

Smitty
Hi... Don't be hard on yourself... I know how mean family members can be and how you can feel like a target. As my counselor says... "It's their problem(s) from their upbringing" (that makes them that way)... My mother lives with me... and, there is rarely a time I can do anything right... she doesn't even think I can boil water... and, thinks she's the queen of the kitchen... so, after so many years (in my new kitchen... that I paid for)... I pretty much stay out of it when she's around... I know walking on eggs isn't easy... a lot of us here on this site know this drill... Try to turn this around (books from the library, etc.) so you can save your health... I know it's a slow process... but, you're ok... not any different than anyone else... Hang in there with us ok?

I don't know if anyone has used this book, but it comes highly recommended:
Coping with your difficult older parent: A guide for Stressed Out Children.

amazon/Coping-Your-Difficult-Older-Parent-ebook/dp/B0053K290Q/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=&qid=

Smitty - On the 5 day mark I ended up talking to a friend who knows the whole situation for about 2 hours. It helped ease my guilt.

A few days later I did talk to mom by phone. She's back to her being sweet phase. Which means she got what she wants. But will lash out if we push her. I've also accepted the help my BIL is providing. He's Mom's favored one right now and is "taking care of things." and I'm happy to let him. He will get burned eventually.

I am taking two brothers to see her Saturday for Mother's Day. We are all dreading it. And yet we are going. I'm curious what we will talk about on the drive home after visiting with her.

Sandwich42 -- this was one of the first books I read when I needed to get more involed w/my mom's care. You're right -- it did help a lot. I ended up gravitating to more information specifically on narcissism and BPD though, which really provided a lot of insight and validation.