When is enough enough with narcissistic parents?

Enough is enough when you decide you are

Hello sad. You do not have to go and take s*** from your mother to take the heat off the help staff there. they probably deal with lots of patients like this day in and day out.
What may happen is your mom will suffer the consequences of her behavior. Out of control enough, they will transfer her to another unit. Is this what you are really 'afraid' of? If she is not mistreated then, I say let them transfer.
I do not think there is anything noble about being a punching bag for a nasty woman in order to protect her from her own consequences. She may or may not be cognizant: I tend to think they are more cognizant then we think at times, but that is a whole other topic.
Keep your sanity, stay away. NO GUILT..

two cents ¢¢

Not a caregiving book but still excellent - Children of the Self-Absorbed: amazon/Children-Self-Absorbed-Grown-Ups-Getting-Narcissistic/dp/1572245611

Litledogtoo says, "If not, they need psychiatric help." Yep, that they do. Are they going to get it? Nope, they aren't. To these particular people (narcissistic people) nothing is ever their fault.

And looloo nails it on the head - we've been brainwashed that it is all us, that if we just keep working at it, everything will be better, and if it isn't better, it's our fault.

Litledogtoo, actually I like your answer. You are 100% correct. The problem is so many adults have psychological problems due to their upbringing that they have a difficult time cutting the cord. It is very complicated. But you do make a very valid point.

Litldogtoo -- I don't think your response is rude at all! You make perfect sense. It may seem as though we're here, all spinning ourselves into a tizzy for no reason. But the reason is that we've lived our ENTIRE lives completely in the dark about what the actual issue is w/ourselves and our family. We were led to believe since day 1 that this was something we just had to keep WORKING at, and that the reason it wasn't working was OUR fault. We're here, because something finally clicked into place -- we had our epiphany! NOW, we just need to learn a few skills and get some healthier habits, and that doesn't come easily or quickly.

I realize this was asked and answered a month ago, and this is going to be a very rude answer that many aren't going to like, but gees, when does the parenting end? When the 'baby/child/teen/young adult/ doesn't need the 'parent' in order to survive anymore.

Period.

You stop it, not the parent. You tell them you're not a child anymore. Period.

If they don't like it, you simply deal with them on your own terms which may just be not very often.

Sorry if you don't like the answer, but nobody tells me (and hasn't since I've been independent) what to do. I'm an adult, not a child anymore.

Just how much we 'owe' our parents doesn't include handing over our entire life to them to pay them back for having diapered us. If a parent is an adult, they will know the boundaries and respect them. If not, they need psychiatric help. Life isn't drama as shown in movies and television. There is a time to let go. While we may owe our parents respect, what I'm hearing from you is they don't respect YOU.

Sandwich42 -- this was one of the first books I read when I needed to get more involed w/my mom's care. You're right -- it did help a lot. I ended up gravitating to more information specifically on narcissism and BPD though, which really provided a lot of insight and validation.

Smitty - On the 5 day mark I ended up talking to a friend who knows the whole situation for about 2 hours. It helped ease my guilt.

A few days later I did talk to mom by phone. She's back to her being sweet phase. Which means she got what she wants. But will lash out if we push her. I've also accepted the help my BIL is providing. He's Mom's favored one right now and is "taking care of things." and I'm happy to let him. He will get burned eventually.

I am taking two brothers to see her Saturday for Mother's Day. We are all dreading it. And yet we are going. I'm curious what we will talk about on the drive home after visiting with her.

I don't know if anyone has used this book, but it comes highly recommended:
Coping with your difficult older parent: A guide for Stressed Out Children.

amazon/Coping-Your-Difficult-Older-Parent-ebook/dp/B0053K290Q/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=&qid=

Smitty
Hi... Don't be hard on yourself... I know how mean family members can be and how you can feel like a target. As my counselor says... "It's their problem(s) from their upbringing" (that makes them that way)... My mother lives with me... and, there is rarely a time I can do anything right... she doesn't even think I can boil water... and, thinks she's the queen of the kitchen... so, after so many years (in my new kitchen... that I paid for)... I pretty much stay out of it when she's around... I know walking on eggs isn't easy... a lot of us here on this site know this drill... Try to turn this around (books from the library, etc.) so you can save your health... I know it's a slow process... but, you're ok... not any different than anyone else... Hang in there with us ok?

I was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder about 6 years ago...o any of you or your siblings have this diagnosis? I wonder if it's common, because you pick up that sensitivity from years of being blamed and shamed.

Of course mom was never diagnosed with more than clinical depression and anxiety...d*mn that makes me mad! I've always been the 'identified patient' in the family, the scapegoat...but realize now that it wasnt' my fault, just my parents' way of shedding their issues.

Cmcwrinkl1, how do you feel keeping that distance for 5 days? I know I feel less suffocated and used...I suspect you felt more freedom while you were living your life compared to how you feel now...that can answer your question about what to do next? I don't know...

Mother's day is coming and I have mixed feelings...I already do so much for her I don't want to do anything more, if you know what I mean...Yesterday we had a spat after I asked her if she liked my haircut...She stared at me and said.."it looks the same length" Then she said "I like the two other photos of you." My heart sank...I'm still feeling hurt and sad and can't shake it...I don't even want to take care of her today...

She is another person with the other caregivers who come here...Sweet, friendly, kind, and with me, she is COLD...

I'm just tired of it

My current dilemma is now that I know not to take the abuse and have been walking out or not engaging like I used to - she is taking it out on the people at the AL instead as I am not going as often. So - do I go and take the abuse so she is calmer there... But I feel horrible again from the way I am treated - or give it more time and hope she will adjust. She is refusing the meds - they were crushing it before - but she doesn't always eat the food - as it is crap as she says - so it is hit and miss. Ugh. No good options.

You can't change an aging parent's behaviors, only how you react. I have a narcissistic mother, too. She still drives me crazy sometimes, but I just try to brush it off or change the subject if it's appropriate. If she gets too mean or hateful I just say I'm not going to argue about these things since it's getting us nowhere, get up, calmly leave and say I'll talk to her in a day or two once this passes. Surprisingly she even called and apologized after a couple such encounters. Possibly this is because I'm the only family member she hasn't cut off permanently, but after years of these ups and downs I'm not in the mood for being dragged through the mud anymore.

Sandwich - my mom can...minus the prescription drugs though. Smoking, drinking, no exercise , junky fatty foods...cancer 2 times. Amazing isn't it?? My mother was always discussed that I run and work out, participated in my kids school and sports - just didn't get it. I guess I just didn't see myself playing bridge all day getting hammered while my kids did sports...makes me wonder why she even had my brother and I.

My mom was given a new anti anxiety drug...she is refusing to take. Wants a print out of what it is. Basically it's that and calm down or go into the dementia care unit. Still waiting for the results of the ct scan too.

I would like to see more scientific/medical research on BPD/NPD and dementia. I thought I'd read it's natural for people to regress with dementia even without a complicated personality disorder, which includes going back to very childish behaviors that are also selfish, narrow in focus, and possibly mean.

I wonder is there a point where anybody with dementia can mimic the behaviors for NPD/BPD, and could possibly even pass an eval. I know the hospital up here wouldn't put mom in the psych ward for her behavior last night because of the dementia. Sadly, the ER couldn't find a medical reason to keep her other than blood sugar over 250.

I am convinced my mom is a robot under her skin. Anybody else would be dead from the decades of strong prescription drugs she's had, the strokes, the diabetes, the reduced liver & kidney function, and living at such a high strung, high anxiety level for 76 years. A regular human couldn't exist like this.

I just re-read my post and need to correct myself. I figured dad was npd about 10 years ago, maybe 8 years ago. I spent most of my life feeling bad about not wanting to be around them and not understanding what was going on. I thought it as just his depression triggering mine. It was way more than that.

smitty, you asked if both my parents were NPD and yes, they were. I always knew dad was but couldn't figure my mom out. Of course, I stayed way from about 1990 to 2010 when dad died. Mostly because after moving halfway across the country to go to school, then get on with my life, I could rarely afford to visit. I probably visited less than 10 times in that time period. My parents didn't reach out (surprise) and while I wrote them lots of letters, I received few in return. Maybe two, I think. Now I understand why. Before, I thought it was all my fault. Isn't that just the way they do, make you feel everything is your fault when it isn't!

This past two weeks has been helpful for me, but jarring. I see my mother so clearly now. The bad thing is that I find it extremely hard to do anything with her or for her. The good thing is she just moved to an IL place and is getting government benefits and a little money from my BIL (who hasn't been burned by her yet), so I am free to let go of things now. What's so frustrating is how much of a struggle I am having with letting go. The old pattern is still there, the old pull to take care of them.

I do live 3 hours away from her and 2 hours from my siblings. I have not called or talked to my Mom in 5 days and the guilt tells me it has been longer. None of us kids is able to do much at all. I think my sister, whose buttons were recently triggered and is in the Mom needs help phase right now, is helping Mom. But I don't really know. I don't know if its better if I minimize communication or try to keep lines open with sis to keep tabs.

Tonight I'm feeling especially conflicted. Oh well.

The article on this page decribes characteristics of narcissistic mothers. It describes my life. Section #9 talks about the older narcissistic mother.

Things have gotten much worse now that my mother is elderly, widowed, has health problems and expects to get help.

Is it probable that some adults raised like we we're have traits of NPD or BPD? I have been diagnosed with BPD which was caused by her neglect and craziness..Just wondering...

Awesome, sandwich! Isn't it great to have that confirmation from a professional?

Yay Sandwich! What a validation for you and the support must have felt empowering!

((((((hugs))))))) sandwich - some of this sounds familiar. Once mother talked about jumping out the window the pysch went into action. My mother has BPD and is narcissistic. It really does help when the professionals confirm what you already knew. I am so glad that you got some support. I hope your mum will be placed in the right facility now - with staff that can deal with mental illness. This is what is happening to my mother. She has been pretty quiet in hospital so far, but recently the anger is showing. I suspect it will come out more and more now. She can only contain herself so long. I so understand your relief from being validated. It still isn't easy but it is easier.

Well!
I just got home from being at the hospital for the past 5 hours for mom, who told a health worker at the AL center she was going to jump out the window. That is no joke, so they hauled her in to the ER where she found herself being interviewed by a psych and social worker. When they came to talk to me, eventually the social worker asked me if I would go get Stop Walking On Eggshells. Mom has borderline personality disorder. I already have that book!! BPD and NPD are frequently found together. The psych ward wont take anybody with dementia, but the orders are to get her a geriatric psychiatrist, which I will coordinate.

As big of a pain in the a55 tonight was, I am doing a happy dance. I feel like I must won something vecause somebody credible figured this out in a couple hours. I was right!!!!

Nobody lectured me about how mom's problems are all my fault and if I would just do xyz differently, she'd be ok. They didn't act shocked when I told her story of growing up, and my story of growing up with her bratty stunts. Mom was in the stabilization room thinking she was fooling everybody and not fooling anybody. She was also picking at her skin and scratching like she has chicken pox. The doctor seemed to think it was more about anxiety than a medical problem.
I think he's onto something.

The social worker asked mom if she'd learned any lessons tonight! I almost laughed out loud.

MizVic my mother too would have a couple of cocktails then wine...couldn't call her after 5 - or it was ugly. That's why I never put the NPD together until she had the stoke and was no longer drinking - personality was the same. It is like Dr Jeckle and Mr Hyde for sure.

Smith - mine does the same thing too - while I am talking she interrupts and then says I am interrupting...um...I was talking. If I just let her talk - she would never stop...and then talks over me. I just stopped playing that game too - doesn't go anywhere, as she isn't listening to a thing I say. I have set her up with email - which at least I can write what is important without being drowned out. I think that you need to see about living elsewhere to save your sanity...if you can - or is she at the point of asst living?

Everything she accuses me of when we argue is exactly what she's doing!!! It's only projection, the sky is not falling...AHHHHHHHHHHH! I can't live here anymore...i feel so trapped.

I think part of my mom's "ugly" mornings has to do with drinks the night before. She has always enjoyed a cocktail or two before dinner, and though she hides it I am suspicious that she still has them.

Most mornings I try to wait until close to noon to see her. generally her hangover has lifted, her meds have kicked in and she has had something to eat. Go before 10 and watch out!

Good Lord above these narcs can be borderline evil.