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This man is getting on my last nerve. I have taken care of him for 7 years. He takes away time and money from my young children and I need him to move out. He refuses. How do I get him to cooperate and how do I get his other children (besides my husband, he has a daughter and son that do nothing for him) to help take care of this dying man? I’m done.

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Just skimmed through your previous posts, listed on your profile page.

Hmmm.

Well now. You have (quite rightly) nudged certain caregiving tasks across to your husband, and state that as a consequence reality is slowly beginning to dawn on him.

Now five falls. Your husband (not you) is primary caregiver. Does it occur to your husband that if he persists in housing a vulnerable elder he and his wife are not able to support safely, he is edging uncomfortably close to neglect?

In social care circles, we workers must not overstep our competence boundaries (it is the cardinal sin). Take a leaf out of that book and you must refuse all involvement in:

nursing tasks
moving and handling tasks
medications administration
falls risk assessment and management

There is nothing hard-nosed or manipulative about this. Refusing involvement in tasks for which you are not trained or equipped is the RIGHT thing to do, in your FIL's best interests. It should very rapidly become clear that FIL cannot be cared for at home, and your husband - not you - must arrange alternative provision.

Don't you "try to get him to co-operate," take care that you don't. This is your husband's father and it is your husband's duty to make and carry out decisions in his father's best interests.
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BurntCaregiver Feb 2022
Countrymouse,

No in-home caregiver resists doing anything that you've listed if it needs to be done and they are competent to do it. When I say competent, I mean they possess knowledge of the task at hand and have experience in correctly performing such task. The client can't always wait for a nurse visit to be coordinated to give them their medications when they need to have them. Or if they need a dressing changed and can't wait.
On my last position, my client got put on hospice (which was totally unnecessary because she graduated out of it and lived another 3.5 years). Part of their job was to make sure the place was supplied because I was no longer "allowed" to shop for the client even though I was private help because they insisted a CNA be there at all times.
The client ran out of diapers and the Boost drinks she practically lived on. No doing without. I had a neighbor come and sit with her while I went down the street to get them. The nurse came and had a conniption because it's their job and they did order these things. Only we had none. She was promptly put in her place by me. I asked if she was going to change the bed ten times a day because there was no diapers. Or what she'd be feeding the client because there was no shakes. I even handed her the phone and told her to call APS. I demanded it. She never did. I assessed that having diapers for the totally incontinent client and the only food source she would actually eat was more important than humoring their ridiculous protocols.
An adult with an ounce of common sense can assess fall risks and management. They can also read the directions on a medication and fill a weekly pill dispenser too. It doesn't take an expert to see danger in a home with a handicapped person living in it
that hasn't been remodeled to accommodate their needs. A person who falls all the time can be considered handicapped. People can figure this out on their own. It's not harboring on neglect if a family doesn't have a nurse, a CNA, a physical therapist, an occupational therapist, a social worker, and a pharmacist on staff in their home if the elder is receiving adequate care in that home. This is why Medicare and Medicaid are nearly bankrupt.
Many families are leery about nurses, social workers, PT, etc... coming into their house and not without good reason. Many in these professions get bonuses when they can refer an elderly person to a care facility. They will find a fault with the home and the care in it even when there is none to really speak of. Like a doorway in some part of the house it too narrow so the elder isn't safe. Or the house may be clean but shabby. The furniture is old and the place needs to be painted, so the elder isn't safe.
I've seen this happen often over 25 years in the homecare field. It goes on.
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What does your husband think of putting him in assisted living? Does he insist his father stay?

Regardless, you shouldn’t be the one taking care of him. Your husband should be the caretaker. I hate how so many daughters-in-law are stuck with this job!
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Refusing ALF isn't really your FIL's decision to make. He is now dependent. Dependents don't make decisions for the family.
I don't think you can get others to take care of this man. To my mind, they are the ones who made the right decision. They are taking care of themselves and their families. Your husband (I am assuming) chose to take your FIL in. You do not tell us if he suffers from dementia; if he DOES your husband can now place him in care. If he does not, it would be difficult to place someone this week on eviction notice and watch him fall in his own apartment.
I always advise people not to take the elders into their own home. Their families will suffer greatly for this sacrifice and it is no longer unusual for our elders to live well into their 90s with good care. They become more and more week and take more and more resources from the family; resources that should go to the children and their education, and to saving for your OWN old age so that you are not the burden on your children that your father-in-law has become.
I would say that you may have a husband problem here as much as a FIL problem. You and your husband may need to see a counselor to mediate and negotiate what the future will look like for your family, so that you can then make your OWN decisions for yourself and your children based on the outcome of that.
I am so sorry for the suffering for you all. Seven years is to my mind more than enough. As to the magical thinking that there is going to be relief from other family members, I think that is only going to bring you more disappointment; you know full well after 7 years what to expect from that quarter.
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missfits Feb 2022
The problem is that when an older person doesn’t have dementia, they can still make decisions about whether o root they want care, a ride in the ambulance after a fall, etc. unless he is unconscious or not making sense, I can’t make him do anything. The good thing is after this last fall, I think he finally realizes that he will need help soon. His arthritis and mobility are making him slower and slower. I am sure we are just a month or two away from finally getting either nursing care or assisted living. My husband is also finally being open to the idea that maybe grandpa can’t live with us forever.
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Did you agree to be his caregiver or was it just assumed by the family that you’d do it? Talk with your husband, and then his family. Let them know you’re completely burned out and won’t be providing care any longer. A new plan is needed and it’s up to FIL’s adult children to figure this out. I recommend you go on a solo vacation to fully allow them to grasp the situation
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If he in fact is dying and falling a lot, he probably requires too much care for an assisted living facility, unless HE has the money to pay for round the clock care while there.
You should not be spending any of your money on his care. That should ALL be on him. And if he doesn't have the money, he can apply(with your help)for Medicaid. Then he needs to be placed in the appropriate facility.
It's really not fair to you or your children to have to live under such stress, so next time he falls, call 911 and have him taken to the ER. Then make sure they know that he CANNOT return back to your home. It will be at that point that the hospital social worker will have to find a facility that will take him.
I wish you the very best in getting him out of your home.
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Why are you spending your family's money?!?!

Starting today, FIL pays rent, utilities, food, cleaning help and travel expenses for trips to medical appointments.

Draw up a rental agreement and have it looked over by a lawyer, or at least notarized.

Give him the dignity of paying his own way.

If he and DH won't agree to that, take yourself on a vacation, even if that only means staying with friends or family for 2 weeks.
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Isthisrealyreal Feb 2022
Barb, I totally agree that FIL should be paying his way but, I question a rental agreement. Wouldn't this be taxable income because it is a rental agreement? Wouldn't it be better to do share of costs, because that isn't taxable income?

Or is there something about relatives rental being different?

Just curious, I know you are on financial forums, so wondering if a new law has been enacted or something? Thank you.
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From another post: "I have been given more and more responsibilities for my father in law and after 7 years, I have hit a wall. I am slowly making my husband take on all the responsibilities and now he understands why I’ve been so depressed and angry. He thinks I will take care of everything automatically. Now he has to do his dad’s laundry and clean his bathroom. Now that I put boundaries to this never ending situation, he doesn’t ask me for anything. He finally understands how much time, energy and empathy it takes to deal with a mean old bastard every day. I can’t wait til the day he moves to assisted living, then I can raise my cute family in peace."

That is good that you set down some boundaries. Make some more!

What are his finances? Can he afford an AL? Does your H have POA/HCPOA?
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if this is the "father" mentioned in your profile you state he has Alzheimer's
He, with a diagnosis of dementia no longer gets the final word in where he lives if it is a matter of safety.
His physical safety as well as your physical and mental safety.
Who has the legal authority to place him in Memory Care? If your husband is then this is a discussion that you have to have with him. If the persons holding legal authority are one of his other children then dad should move in with them so that they can care for him if they do not want him in Memory Care.
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Don't know all of your family dynamics, but if it were me, and your fil has $, then start by hiring someone to come in at least 3 days a week for 4-8 hours a day. That might help fil accustomed to having someone else take care of his needs. This help could do things like make meals for him, do his laundry, bath him, change linens, take him out for a walk, engage in conversation. If he doesn't like it - tough - this is real life. Not everything in life can be his way.

If he doesn't have $, then the only options you have are to continue what you are doing but you will build up so much frustration, anger, resentment and bitterness that it will negatively affect your marriage and your relationship with your children, not to mention impact your health and well-being. If you husband doesn't want to step up to the responsibilities that are truly his to take on, then only choice you have left is to either stop doing or move either the fil (but you probably can't since you are not official 'family' or designated poa)...or yourself/kids leave. But the current environment you are in is toxic to you.
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If you did not agree to take care of him and nobody in the family will take on this role...

Take him to the ER the next time he falls. Insist on an admission. Insist that case management and/or social services place him in a long term facility that he qualifies for.
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Beatty Feb 2022
I think the OP replied somewhere that FIL won't agree to be transported via ambulance to ER after a fall - he would need to be unconscious or incoherent. So I expect he would decline a ride with family too.

This is what my frequent faller relative does too but I long since backed out. (Has been told living alone is not enough but does not want change).

A bad fall will be the game-changer.

Maybe the OP is in that club too? Yet as FIL lives in, if they ask him to move out, he needs to.

May take some tough talk from son to father to get the ball rolling.
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