Hi guys.
My father (72) was diagnosed with PD around 5 years ago. He manages it well, walks a lot although it's apparent his mind is starting to decline. I live quite far away and my sister in another country, so I'm currently house-hunting to move closer to him so I'm a quick drive away rather than the 6 hours I currently am. He does have siblings close by also.
My Nan passed away last year and there was some inheritance due which we've agreed I'll use to go towards the cost of moving house, and early December last year I received a worrying call from the Police saying his bank accounts had been frozen as there were large amounts of money being moved around. I explained I thought it was ok and was inheritance money being moved around, and spent the next couple of weeks liaising with the Police, my Dad and the bank trying to get his account unlocked.
Unbeknownst to me, Dad had been working with an 'investor' who had coerced him to take out a £20k loan to invest - of which he would have no way to repay, on top of £10k my Dad had already invested. This only came to light as he accidentally let slip after my sister was asking what happened to his own £10k. We both raised our concerns, thankfully the bank blocked him from transferring this loan and we got it paid back. My Dad has history of hair-brained money making schemes but with his condition alarm bells were going off.
We spoke on Christmas Day and he'd forgotten absolutely everything that had happened with the loan, the Police, the bank and just kept talking about how brilliant this investor is. This was a huge wake-up call that his PD is declining so first thing I did back at work in the new year was to arrange to work from home so I can be closer to him.
My sister and I have been doing some sleuthing and this investor is a complete scam. There's FCA warnings about them, they delete reviews, there's warnings online about people losing thousands - basically more than enough for anyone to run a mile. Dad had previously agreed to cut ties.
Fast forward to this evening for a catch up (I just had my cat put down so I was a little upset anyway) but I was trying to explain to Dad how worried we were about this investor, he won't ever get any money back, and he needs to cut all ties now. He completely refused and instead just defended this 'Aaron Hammer' who we know is using a pseudonym. I tried to calmly present all the evidence but he just wasn't interested and wants to continue with this investment scam as "it's made a profit already", of which they are refusing to pay out on unless he gives any more of his own money.
The conversation didn't go well from there, I'm upset he's being manipulated to give up thousands of pounds and he's upset we don't believe he'll be a millionaire by March (his words).
My question is if anyone has ever had a situation like this, and can offer advice on next steps? He is quite a stubborn man and I think a lot of this is to do with his declining health and his struggles to accept it and it represents one last throw of the dice.
He frequently has big bouts of memory loss, will repeat conversations over and over so it's apparent his mind is starting to go. Physically he's holding up but the huge concern is what might happen now, especially he's getting 20+ phone calls a day from other 'investors' looking to bleed him dry. He also gets very anxious which he admits is part of his PD, so we try and tread carefully but regrettably my own personal sadness coupled with my worries for him meant I wasn't especially delicate with him this evening.
My Sister and I have discussed power of attorney, I'm not sure if that's an option as he's so resistant to things that would help him and wants to remain independent. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Without guardianship you cannot protect his money. That would take an attorney proving to a judge he is incompetent. That means he would have to be diagnosed as same.
Moreover, I worry about you doing POA, because clearly, according to your story about your own work with his accounts, you do not understand legally what to do in that wise.
I am afraid, like many elders, your Dad, if competent, may lose all his money.
The single way I can think of is reporting him as a senior at risk through APS. You may be British as you used the word "pounds". I am unclear what protective things exist in your country, so can only advise you seek counsel.
I wish you the best, for sure.
Here, you'd need to prove he is cognitively impaired enough to need a legal guardian. This means bringing your LO into court and telling the judge that this person is incapacitated.
I'm so sorry for this hot mess. Please stop trying to reason with him. Due to his PD-associated dementia, he is slowly being robbed of his ability to work from reason and logic, which impacts his judgment. He also is losing his short-term memory, and also his ability to empathize with others. He is not stubborn, he is cognitively impaired now. You will exhaust yourself trying to "get him to see" the scam. Please educate yourselves about dementia (and often people with PD develop Lewy Body dementia, which can include very vivid hallucinations).
I totally agree that now you need to go back to the bank and report that your father is indeed being scammed and to please re-freeze his accounts. Maybe transfer some cash in to his savings account to pay bills, but mostly scammer can't access savings accts easily (in the U.S.) unless your Dad gave them that info.
Now you will need to go through his paperwork and affairs to see what else can still be protected. You will need to figure out how to finesse your interactions with him so that he doesn't get wound up or suspicious. THere's such a thing as a "therapeutic fib" for people who no longer are able to make good decisions for themselves or bring themselves to a mental/emotional state of calm and acceptance.
A relative of mine was also scammed out of everything -- by a very "sweet" privately hired caregiver. She literally even took his dog.
Act as fast as you can. It will feel awful for a while but eventually you'll get things under control and figure out the right care plan for your Dad. I'm so sorry you're going through this. I like to think there's a special place in hell for people who scam seniors in particular.
I’m so sorry you dad is going through this. I’ve read of many people on this forum who have given money to fake lovers or what have you, and it’s almost impossible to get it back, especially with the ongoing health issues and deterioration.
What you need to be on the watch out for will be “recovery scammers”. It’s the same ones who fleeced him or it’s folks who get his info from those who did (Hammer). They will contact him, telling him they know a special way to get all his money back if he does XYZ. Which he likely will as by now he’s been caught out by his family (you) or he knows he’s about to be caught out by his family. There is NO RECOVERY, it too is a scam. Again no recovery that $ is gone.
really the Reddit subgroup is heart breaking reading. But I think it can help you deal with it.
If not, does he have a solicitor/lawyer firm he knows? If so, get him there for an appointment, with you &/or sister.
Despite PD, if he is willing & able to nominate who he can trust to help him, this needs to be arranged asap. I stress HELP HIM rather than *take over* as that can be a real fear. Especially if any paranoia & the known misplaced loyalty to scammers. HELP can be as simple as help with the banks, help to sign, help to sign for him if his hand (or mind) is too shakey.
Then depending on what type of POA, you 'help' by keeping his finances safe.
POA can be immediate or springing into action once a person is deemed to have lost financial decision making. This need asssessment by 1 or 2 Doctors (depending on your laws).
If Dad is unwilling to discuss POA, or deemed unable to assign one by the Doctor or Lawyer, you may need to look into Guardianship. This can cost $$$.
I have seen a man shouting blue murder he would not give POA to his son, no he wouldn't let him steal his money, take over blah blah. In 5 mins the Geriatric Neuro or Psych Specialist had asked "If you needed someone to sign an important document for you, who would you trust?" Answer was instant & calm "My Son".
How the question is asked can have impact. I tell you this in case you need it.
If the scammers have dad's bank account info, dad will need to close his account at the current bank and open a new one at a different bank.
As far as getting through to dad, not gonna happen. If he's doing any of these transactions by computer, set parental controls on it so he can only access innocent sites. Some people set their parent up with a pre loaded debit card with a certain amount on it.
With dementia at play, it's not a good idea for dad to live alone anymore. This scam is just one example of chaos that can ensue when a person loses their short term memory along with their ability to use logic and think things thru to their logical conclusion. Folks with dementia cannot do that. Nor can they remember the steps involved to complete a task such as boiling an egg which, in reality, has about 15 steps to it from start to finish. If they forget a step mid stream, that's when the empty pot sits on the burner and starts a fire while they go outside to start another task.
Think about caregivers coming in to help dad during the day or staying with him yourself once you relocate.
Best of luck to you.