Hello,
This is my first time writing, although I've been a reader for over a year.
I am the eldest of 3 siblings. My youngest sister and myself were named my mother's POA and Personal Representatives or Executor's of her Will. My middle sibling, while mentioned and a beneficiary in the Will was left out of the decision making process due to lifelong strained relationships, primarily with mom but with the entire family in general. To be fair, once mom's Alzheimer's became more apparent, middle sibling has made overtures and phone calls to mom, sent gifts on birthday's, Christmas, etc. in an effort to make amends. Also has made calls to us, to check on mom's health and welfare. However, there have been so many issues over the last 45 years that trust was destroyed long ago and - to be honest - everything that's done is viewed with a certain amount of suspicion because of it. That sibling requested a copy of mom's POA several weeks back .....for their records. Since we've had to send copies of that around to various places the last several years in order to take care of mom's business, and because I didn't want to seem like I was being uncooperative, I sent a copy. Now, they are requesting a copy of the Will.
I've never heard of requesting a copy of the will before the person in question dies and I can't find any reference to that being done anywhere online. I know once mom passes and it goes to probate, all interested parties should get a copy. If things were different, I probably would have no issue with this - but because of the past - I'm very skeptical that this is just for their records. Did I mention that this sibling supposedly works for an Eldercare Law Firm? We ( my youngest sister and I) have every intention of following mom's will just the way it's written - middle sibling has seen the will and knows what's in it and has been appraised of all things being done through mom's POA. Their thoughts and input have been taken into consideration on most all issues with of course the final decision being up to my youngest sister and myself. I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist but I can't help but feel we're looking at potential trouble with this request. I'm not sure if they could actually break the POA and Will by obtaining a copy of both, since they were drawn up by a lawyer - but I think they could create significant road bumps that would cost time, money and general inconvenience. There are many other elements to this story that make me suspect of the reason behind this request - and if more info is needed - I'll be happy to fill in the blanks - However, I wanted to be as concise as possible while still getting the point across. Should I just send a copy of the Will or would I be better to contact a lawyer at this point?
Thanks.
With all that said - your sister has been in the middle of havoc for quite some time. Understandably there may be hard feelings on all sides. BUT there is the chance that mom's health has given her a wake up call that both are running out of time. She is making some attempts to be kind so the rest of you need to let it run its' course.
If there is absolutely any chance you and other sibling had any hand at all in this sister getting a smaller share or something in the will that will slight sister upon death, you still have the option to make things right when will is activated. Maybe mom didn't give her equal amount. Sister and mom didn't get along and sister will have to live with mom's decision. However you and other sibling could repair old wounds by coming together to distribute inheritance equally between all three of you to heal. Why prolong anger and misery for your own lives as well.
That said, you imply sibling is being excluded and/or that the "caregivers" feel said sibling should get nothing. OP never said they feel sibling gets nothing AND per a reply post from OP:
"Middle sibling does get an inheritance in the Will - it's just that hers is split equally between her and her children, as mom felt otherwise - the grand kids would get nothing. These are grand kids by the way that she raised when middle sibling left the state - so, her reasoning was not without merit."
No one is trying to cheat this sibling - more the reverse, sibling is looking to get a bigger share.
She also mentioned that her mom more or less raised these grandchildren, which is why she wanted them to get their share as their mother would likely blow it all and they'd get nothing.
Clearly sibling isn't happy sharing with her kids. Scum is what I would say. Can't be bothered to raise her own or be part of the family all these years and then potentially wants to cut her own children out of their inheritance? That's what it sounds like. She gets what mom left when the time comes and that's that. Sure, come along when mom's cognitive functions are out to lunch and play sweetie pie, so as to get the lion's share. Oooo I am OH so nice mommy, please leave it all for me. Many of us have seen this type. When the $$$$ are pending, the scum leach out of the woodwork. I wouldn't trust this one.
I had this same issue with my brother. Prior to my mother's passing when she was no longer competent to make any legal decisions (and he was unaware of this because he was not involved in her caregiving AT ALL) he demanded to me (the primary caretaker and the executor of her will) and my mother to see my mother's will because "he wanted to make sure his mother was being taken care of"......I guess he did not realize the absurdity of that statement! His only concern was that HE would be taken care of after she passed! I told him if he had any such issues he needed to take it up with my mother's attorney..... the attorney had already been forewarned about my brother years prior when my mother wrote her will. I don't even know whether he ever contacted the attorney or not but he never asked me for a copy of the will after that. Also because my mother's attorney knew my brother would cause problems when he didn't get everything my mother had left, she added a "No Contest Clause" to her will so that anyone who attempts to contest the will basically receive nothing. There are a few states (Florida and Indiana) that do not enforce this clause but it is definitely worth looking into.
Good Luck!
We also set up an irrevocable trust, first with mom's "liquid" assets, then with the proceeds from the sale of her condo. What I wasn't really aware of until later is the intent, in some cases, for this trust is to "preserve" assets if/when mom goes to a NH. When the EC atty told me to contact him if/when she moves to a NH (she's in a private pay non-profit MC), to give him a call to help set up for Medicaid. I was appalled. So long as I am the one managing all her "affairs", I fully intend to use HER money for HER care! IF it is ever used up and she needs NH, fine, we go Medicaid and we three get nothing. If someone has assets, they should be used for that person's care, not squirreled away for our benefit. Sure, it would be great to inherit something, but I am not holding my breath.
1. Why my three (3) younger siblings did what they did - strictly for money. It was 100% dishonest & illegal, but lawyers will do anything for money. Most of them are just as evil.
2. The irony - my three younger siblings stole from their own children what my parents wanted their children and future grandchildren to receive.
3. My three (3) younger siblings were also basically estranged from their parents for decades (In a manner of speaking) but low and behold Mother got sick with cancer and dementia and in swooped the evil mongers.
(May God have mercy on their souls because they’re gonna need it!)
4. Lastly, NEVER, NEVER SHARE CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION WITH ANYONE ABOUT A WILL. It’s all about the money and it definitely doesn’t matter how much there is to get.
Best to you!
25 years of working with families and this is a new one. I am unsure the nature of the individual making this request but that is not something that anyone needs to divulge.
I would be very careful with this individual having access to anything that is personal.
Although I moved in w/mom because I was emotionally and financially knocked on my ass, mom was 82 at that time, and was beginning to mentally decline (unbeknownst to either sister). Very soon, it was apparent to me that mom shouldn't be alone in that big house with a second floor, so I stayed on. Over 5 years, mom declined very quickly, that I became her full-time caregiver (two broken bones, 2 strokes, multiple falls with concerns about concussion, and the attendant ambulance and E.R. runs; flooding the downstairs of the house (left the bathroom sink running with the stopper on). I was completely competent and on top of everything as a caretaker and financial and household manager. (New roof, new electrical, neglected pool, etc., etc.)
So, while sisters were completely absent physically and unaware, they each refused to communicate with me, either by e-mail, text, and needless to say, phone, because of their belief that I was irresponsible and unpredictable (and further proof, having 2 relationships in 40 years that both eventually and sadly ended). During this awful period, found out that older sister (lives 200+ miles away, never visits or calls) came once to 'visit', and took mom to an attorney to replace me as POA, which mom had done independently, and given the circumstances, with herself (lives 200+ miles away). I learned this accidentally when going through mom's docs for some caretaking or legal purpose. I'd been seeing a therapist weekly the whole time, who knew I was committed to sobriety, and was also aware that sisters were plain mean and unfair, and very likely to also mess with the estate stuff, based on their past behaviour. (Thankfully, I have a regular, detailed journal as recorded by my therapist of my 5 years time there, thank god.) Anyway, the whole experience was a nightmare for this 'middle child', who conducted herself competently and soberly, and exercised sound judgment with mom in many very difficult emotional, mental and physical circumstances they were never remotely aware of, as they were simply not interested.
I did ask older sister when I discovered what she'd done on the sneak, under my nose, with the POA. She was sheepish and embarrassed, but not apologetic. I finally gave them both 30 days notice that I was moving out and far away, forcing them to come up with their own plan. Now mom's got 2 caretakers, my young adult and single niece moved in (she works full-time and is saving for a house), weekly housekeepers, and the two sisters are supporting each other emotionally with regular communication. I didn't have any of that, and the only report I've received in 18 months is how smoothly everything is going now. Well yeah, if I'd had any portion of that support, things would've been smoother during my tenure there.
So, that's my long sordid story of my experience being the 'middle/black sheep' sister. They never can or will 'forgive' me for being alcohol dependent for those few years; they have no interest to understand how addiction works, and refuse to acknowledge that 'the gene' is very much in both sides of our immediate family, and they lucked out while I drew the short straw.
Also, these sisters are not trying to cheat the other out of anything. Clearly the will leaves something to that other sibling and her children. It sounds more like THAT middle sibling is trying to maneuver getting more for herself.
BTW, I am the "middle" child as well. Two clueless brothers, one a year older, the other 10 years younger. I was the one to identify mom's issue (dementia), researched it (but was called a know-it-all if I tried to share information), got proactive about assets, etc (update documents and set up a trust), found MC places local to me to check out (OB is not local, YB still working and isn't always "there" when you need him, so I knew it would be ME managing everything, coordinated the repairs/cleanup of her condo and was point of contact for the realtor.) I continue to be the one who manages her income and trust, visits her, procures and delivers supplies, etc, basically everything other than hands-on care. IF there is anything left after she passes, we get equal share. Fair? Meh. What mom wanted? Yup.
So, hoping your mom is really getting the care she deserves. It is a shame that you decided to up sticks and leave, because they were jerks.
After my dad died my mother refused to let anyone see his will. I found & copied it while she was in the shower. To my shock I was named as executrix! My mother was convinced that I would handle things wrong & she'd be destitute. I took it to a lawyer (on my own dime) to find out what to do. I filed a form to decline.
I (just like other people on this blog) are in the same boat as you. NO, you do NOT have to provide anything to your sibling. When I ran into this with my estranged brother, my mom’s attorney said “absolutely not”, you are not legally obligated to provide anything dealing with your mothers affairs to anyone since you are DPOA and ETA. There has always been issues with my brother (and I use that term loosely) as he never has been around really my whole life. He is 12 years older then me and is disabled due to not controlling his diabetes years back. My other 2 siblings have passed away so it is just me and my wife to take care of her. I have always been there for her and my dad (he passed away 9 years ago) and will continue till the day she dies.
About 2 years ago my mom was diagnosed with breast cancer so it was up to me and my wife to take care of her. Sure, I could have just put her in a nursing home but she is not ready for that. Her cancer spread to her femur and caused a hairline fracture. She had to have surgery to put in a rod so her femur would not break all together. Right after the surgery, I called him and told him the surgery went well and she will be out in a couple of days. He ask if she was going to move in with us, I replied Yes. He then ask what are you going to do with all of her stuff???. REALLY!!! I just hung up the phone. I don’t have time for that crap!!!
We take her to all of her appointments (twice a month sometimes 4) we make sure she eats 3 meals a day (including Wendy’s frosty once and awhile..hehe) and control all her meds. I have never ask her for anything money wise, we’ll, because I work for a living and don’t need her money. I keep her money safe because if I have to put her in a nursing home the I will need that to pay for it. We just want to make sure she is happy in her years...btw, she is 86.
He started calling my mother not regular but at least he calls since he would call about once a year In the past to ask for something. Now that he has learned that we sold her house, boy, he perked up then!!! Started asking her questions about who is taking care of your finances? My mom told him I was. He then preceded to tell her that I was stealing from her and that she would not have a dime in 2 years. I just laughed it off and so did she as she is reading her monthly bank statements.
Money will bring out the worst in siblings, specially the ones that burn there bridges in the past and now are trying to rebuild them again. In my book it does not work that way!!!
STICK TO YOUR GUNS!!!! You are doing everything right for your mom and good for you and your other sister...
good luck!!!
Yep - stick to your guns. Save yourself the complications. Your only responsibility is to your mother, and it sounds like you and your sister are doing a great job. Take care.
A person can assign anyone, including an attorney, to be their POA. Should these POAs be waving all your personal information around, like wet laundry? Nope. Doesn't matter if it is family - unless the person wants their information shared with another person, NOPE!
I cannot see any reason why they would need a copy of the will unless they were concerned that there might be unacceptable changes made. No one is entitled to even see the will until after death much less have a copy. I did not think even the executor was entitled unless it was necessary. Seeing it is a moot point in this instance. I think a frank discussion about why they feel they need a copy and keep the original in a safety deposit box.
As Davenport said the situation is not always clear and it does sound as if middle sib is trying to mend some fences before it is too late. But you are the one in the middle of the situation and will need to trust your instincts. Personally I would not give a copy of the will as there is no need for them to have it. If you decide to, then I would make sure that all siblings have a copy...
Do not turn your back on your sister for one minute. Do not give her any ammunition for a fight.
1) Provide a copy of the will = NO.
2) Ensure you have documentation about mom's condition - this is one way others try to contest wills OR change them. I would ensure you have clear dated documentation that states she is NOT competent. Otherwise, if this sibling attempts to contest the will, or tries to get someone to change/write a new one, it will be rejected by the court.
Also, as POA you legally should not share ANY of mom's private information other than what is needed to process paperwork, medical care or finances, and then only to those who MUST have it. You are your mom in her stead only.
"I know once mom passes and it goes to probate, all interested parties should get a copy."
Actually, once it is filed after probate, anyone can request a copy.
"I've never heard of requesting a copy of the will before the person in question dies and I can't find any reference to that being done anywhere online."
About the only reason anyone would want a copy prior to the person's death is to plan to contest it or change it.
Although this doesn't appear to be a "legal" website, and none of the people listed are attorneys, they are end of life advocates and what is written makes sense.
https://www.joincake.com/blog/who-can-see-a-will-before-death/
"Who’s Allowed to Read a Will Before a Death?
Before the testator (the person who created the will) dies and an executor (who the testator named in the will to handle the estate after death) files the will in probate court, the will is considered the testator’s private property, just like any other piece of property that the testator may not want anyone else to see."
...
"The only people allowed to read someone’s will before they die are the people who the testator allows to read it."
...
"However, if a testator is still alive and doesn't want anyone to read the will, then there is no one who is otherwise entitled to read it."
It IS a legal document and IS no one else's business. It only becomes "public" after the person dies and it enters probate. The only reasons I could possibly see this sibling requesting it is to contest or change it. NO. Lock it up in a safe place, and she gets a copy after probate (before any distribution of remaining funds, any/all financial obligations have to be met first, including burial costs.) Keep meticulous records on how her assets are spent, including payments to the sister providing her care. For comparison, get the rates/costs from local LTC facilities. Between what is being saved by providing her care in home and showing sister is likely earning less (esp with respect to SS for her later life!) than if she continued working, this sibling shouldn't have a leg to stand on!
Another site discusses some of the points, mainly confirming that a will is no one's business unless the person who wrote it grants access:
https://legalbeagle.com/12718364-getting-a-copy-of-a-last-will-and-testament-in-tennessee.html
I will say this - my mother's cousin named her sister as executor. She was having great difficulty due to age, medical issues and distance dealing with the attorney who had written the will and was "handling" it with/for her. She was trying to enlist help from my mother and me with contacting this atty, but this attorney was difficult to reach, ever! A year and one day later, the sister died. I actually managed to contact the attorney, who "innocently" asked how she was, he wasn't able to reach her. I told him she was dead. When I asked what happens now, he couched his words - "It all falls to the alternative executor." So I had to ask (drag it out of him!) who that would be and his reply was "You." So, I was named as alternate, but never knew about it. When I was at her home shortly after the first one passed, helping to clean out the trash, this atty was there and took me aside to tell me she left her diamond to me. Surprised was all I could say. However, not a peep about being alternate!
And if they have questions or concerns, they can ask her directly as she is still alive and kicking, and healthy as a button.