Help- My poor decision to have MIL live with us is killing our marriage.

IMbabc2,

I have to say I agree wholeheartedly that nowadays few people choose to do the right thing, absolutely true. Nor to sacrifice some of your comfort for others, specially a loved one.

Yet, the part I’m curious about is why do you think he should be the one talking to his MIL and not involve his wife?
If I was his wife I’d not appreciate that. It’s her mom, and they need to remain a united front. I’d actually find it more natural is she talked to her without him, after they as a couple have discussed what needs to be done.

So, just curious.

Kandula9999;

First of all, kudos for caring, for recognizing there is an issue, for being a responsible hard-working person (and acknowledging your wife is as well) AND for wanting to make things better!

You (and your wife) did what you did in a well-meaning manner. However, as you can see now (hind-sight being 20-20!) this may not have been the best decision. Regardless, the decision was made. Now it might be time to look at everything rationally and see if any changes are possible.

A lot of people here have almost demanded that you lay down the law and make the changes happen. Some have said or implied you should kick her out. Others have said you have to set boundaries. Without consult with your wife, these are not the best plans. From my perspective, this is not how you should approach this. You have made a lot of comments about YOUR perception of things, but not anyone else's. I can sympathize with not being accepted or cared about by your MIL - from my experience I was merely the vessel that brought forth the grandchildren (her mother died young and she LIVED to be a grandmother! I was basically a non-entity.) My parents (mostly mother) was also not pleased with the choices we kids made, however mom was a negative Nancy about everything - she knew best, she criticized many/all people - friends, family, anyone. I got so tired of hearing all the crap talk and keeping it in. Even after someone passed away she would harp on their "faults", oftentimes I would hear the same "stories" over and over and over. UGH! Thankfully in our case the marriage did not last. That had its own downfalls, but at least it mostly kept MIL (directly) out of my life. Given where you are at, this should not be on the table for discussion. You clearly care about each other and need to support each other!

Okay, it is quite obvious MIL made and continues to make poor life choices. THAT you cannot change. She is what she is and the best you can do about that is accept it as best you can. There is NO point in making yourself ill trying to "fix" this. It is what it is. Granted that affects you and the others, but for starters, put that aside. You CANNOT change this! You can attempt to place limits on some things (food, money, TV, see below), but you will not be able to change the basis of MIL.

The term "enabling" has been brought up by others. Indeed, it appears that is the case to some extent. It is well-meaning and caring, but once that ball started rolling, it is difficult to stop it. Some people respond positively to that "hand up" and get through the difficult times and become better and more self-sufficient. Others, not so much. Those others can become more and more demanding and/or "helpless." This also touches on having your values rub off on her - trust me, this is likely not EVER going to happen. It is the same when raising children - if your child hangs out with the not-so-good kids, it is very rare for the "good" qualities instilled in your children to change the others. Even worse, the bad behaviors could start impacting YOUR children! In this case hopefully MILs poor choices and behaviors won't rub off on you, your wife or your daughter, but you do need to ensure that it does NOT happen, especially for your daughter. She needs to understand that what grandma does, says and how she lives her life is not the right way to exist.

You do cover a lot of the things that bother YOU. You say "Tension between you" - is this because you bring up these things that you do not like? No, it is not good to harbor the thoughts, but it is also not good OR constructive to criticize these when discussing MIL with the wife. For better or worse, it is her mother. She may not appreciate you pointing out MILs faults or criticizing MIL, no matter how you feel about the situation. Again, it does not help YOU to harbor these things, but if you can work on accepting this is what it is, and understand that you cannot change MIL no matter what you say or do, that will help - sometimes just venting it, like here, can help get it out (safer to vent here than to wife is my guess!)

That said, what is your wife's take on all this? Does she express concerns? She takes on all this extra work, but does it bother her? Is she really over-worked or do you just perceive it as such? I am sure it does take away time for the two of you together, but assuming it bothers her is the wrong approach (as is demanding changes.)

Your last paragraph kind of sums this up - without knowing any of you, or being involved in your situation, or having access to the opinions/thoughts of the others involved in this soap opera, one has to consider what you have said:

** "I got upset (I was wrong) and said things to wife."
Ok. It happens. Did you eventually apologize? Sit down and have a discussion?

** "I know that my wife loves her mom.. and if I put myself in her shoes.. and this was my mom.. I would probably protect her just like she does."
You acknowledge you would try to do the same for your own mother, but also say she would not behave like this. This brings us back to people are people, they are what they are, she's never going to be like your mother, you cannot change that.

** "What do I do??? Just swallow hard.. make the best of it??? Speak to MIL personally???"
Talking to MIL is going to be a waste of time and breath. It will likely be the worst thing you could do (she is your wife's mother - if your mother behaved like this, how would YOU react if your wife took her to task?) Talk to your WIFE! Don't start with your own misgivings, dislikes and concerns. Those are yours. You have to deal with managing your own concerns and perceptions. Find out where SHE is at in all this. Express concerns that she is overworked and ask what you can do to help. As you have been all along, BE SUPPORTIVE. She just may be okay with all the "mom" stuff. If she acknowledges that she is stressed, find out what SHE wants to do, how she might handle making changes. Then do what you can to make those changes happen! If she wants things to go on as they are, well, do the best you can to let the irksome behaviors roll off your back and just be as helpful and supportive of your wife (and daughter) as you can. Do try to set aside some time now and then to spend quality time ALONE with each of them. Take the wife out for a nice dinner or go someplace she really would like to go. Treat daughter to one-on-one outing as well (you can also do things together, all three of you, but one-on-one from time to time to get away from the grind and have some good times will be helpful!) It really does not sound like you couldn't leave MIL alone in the home. She's got her sleep and TV - get out of the house and do some "normal" fun things! Certainly keep saving for the future, but spend a little of it now and then while you can enjoy it! The future as we all try to envision it might never come to be, sadly... No regrets!

Communication is key here, and should be between you and your wife. This is where you need to start. No accusations. No assumptions. Ask for HER input. If she is indeed okay with all this, then we're back to you having to rationalize and deal with your concerns. If she is not okay with it all, then be supportive, ask for feedback from her about what might be done to make things better and/or easier for HER. If/when you make things easier for her, you (and daughter) will benefit.

The other issues you mention (dietary choices, financial incompetence, etc) need to take a back seat to finding out how your wife feels about all this. Once that is brought to some kind of resolution, then you can work on the other issues.

FWIW - if MIL is not driving or going grocery shopping, the garbage foods can be eliminated. She might complain, but learn to tune it out! It would be better for ALL of you not to have this stuff around to eat anyway. Occasional "treats" are fine, but should be limited. Perhaps donuts on Sunday mornings. Snacks like chips limited to Saturday night movies or TV. Soda should be eliminated - there are many other drinks (especially water) that are better for everyone! Many recent TVs/controllers have control options - if yours has this, limit MILs access to the other TV. Financial issues - given you "purchased" her property, where are those funds now? Does she have direct access to it? It would be best if you could put the bulk of it into a trust and limit what she gets (if she does not go out or contribute in any way, what would she need this money for anyway?) This would also limit anything she "gives" to her other children. If at least one of you is not joint on her account or you do not have her agreement, this might be difficult. You do not mention age or mental capacity (profile only mentions depression), but if possible, limit her access to the funds. At a minimum, if someone has joint access, lock up the funds in several CDs (several is better, in the event extra money is needed you don't have to close all of them.) If she is not already contributing financially to living with you, she should be. In the event that she would ever need Medicaid, be sure to have something official in writing and keep good records! If at all possible, have her visit with an Elder Care attorney to set up a will, DPOA, medical directives, and if she is willing to do this, this is where you can get an official "document" for what she provides for her support. Ensure she knows that these other documents would not take effect unless she were incapacitated. Some elders balk at this because they think you are taking over, which is not the case. That Elder Care attorney could also explain to her the benefits of setting up a trust, if she still has substantial funds left from the property sale (protects assets, tax savings, etc.)

One final note - if/when you and the wife can work out the best plan for this situation, you should both have a good talk with your daughter. She is likely also suffering from many of the same issues and needs support from both of you as well. This has to be impacting her in ways you might not even know about - give her the opportunity to express those concerns. You can explain that some people (like MIL) make poor choices in life, and do not behave in the manner that you have raised your daughter, but that this should not impact how she views her grandmother or either of you (for trying to help) or really anyone or how she herself should behave. One time my son told me that he hated his father because I did. He was 10 years old (you do not mention ages of MIL or daughter, but this can have serious impact on her if she is pre-teen or teen.) I stopped him right there and said first of all I do not hate your father, I hate the things he does sometimes, and secondly I do not want you to form opinions of ANYONE based on what someone else thinks!

You have responded once to some suggestions - please do come back, even if it is only to vent. We all need an outlet for negative vibes and this is a safe place for that! Sometimes just being able to express it, whether in counseling or just getting it out on paper or on the computer in a place like this, is cathartic. If you can make progress with issues, it might be of use for others as well, so we would love to hear how things are going for you (and you can also maybe vent the issues implied in your comment "Lots more to the story...")

Usually these situations never work out---depends on situation!! You and your wife will probably hopefully out live your MIL, if you and your wife have a loving marriage--I think that should be top priority. Find your MIL other living arrangements. I've been in a couple of "trapped" situations that didn't involve in laws-----just wanted to the Christian thing and try and help out people that weren't willing to try and make changes, or didn't want to work, or try to fix their health problems, etc. etc. You get stuck with them, and they're hard to get out!! Didn't really have the money to take care of them long term. The situations finally got resolved. Learned my lesson--will never do it again!!! Doesn't matter if it's family or not!!! Called "tough love" and not enabling the behavior. I've chalked off a couple of family members---don't even miss them. A person can't take care of the whole world.!!! I hope this helps!!

I think the OP is gone after his vent to us. 7 pages of answers and no comment from him. Hope he’s found his answer.

You only get one life, it isn't a rehearsal. MIL is using you and your wife, people like her seem to live forever. Your resentment will continue to grow and she will gradually completely take over your home and life if you allow her to. Time to have a serious talk with the wife and be very honest. If you can't stand up to MIL for yourself then do it for your daughter. What does it teach her when you are allowing a family member, that you don't like, to control your life and make you unhappy? Good luck.

Rosses003, You would be correct if this were a functional family, where a daughter is able to discuss issues reasonably with her mother. It is obviously not or the daughter would already have straightened this out. Very often a daughter becomes a co-dependent to whatever addiction the mother has. I certainly have and continue to bring my mother her beer and wine, clean up after her, cook for her, bathe her etc., even though she can do all of those things to some degree herself. Yet, my mother demands this of me as she gave me life and due to that alone, she believes I owe her. Its just easier for me to perform these duties than to argue the point with her.

Many respondents recommend therapy to "poor decision". Yet therapy would require MIL to attend. I know this to be true as my husband and I have attended therapy. My mother refused. MIL knows she is dominating this family and will not likely attend therapy.

A daughter who is co-dependent is not respected. In my situation I have become a type of servant (not an authority figure). I suspect "poor decision's" wife has become a type of servant to her mother. Whether MIL suffers addiction, or daughter is shy or unable to speak as an equal to her mother, poor decision's wife will most likely continue to serve her mother (as I do) in many capacities. So, the husband would more easily become an authority figure, not servile. Of course, husband and wife must agree on the content of the discussion between MIL and husband. And husband must be calm and respectful to MIL.

THE most important issue is to separate MIL from the rest of the family. This can be done by creating a separate apartment for her within the home. In my situation this was the best solution...separation.

IM; sometimes you go to therapy to get yourself strong enough to get out of a bad situation. It doesn't matter if the other party attends or not.

You go to therapy so that you find out that YOU are not the crazy one; that you have needs and desires that OUGHT to be respected by the other party, but often are not. You learn to value yourself enough to set the situation right, even if it causes the other person pain. Because YOU have as much right to happiness as s/he does.

It's YOUR home--as long as she's there you need to put down rules for her!!

I will repeat my advice of a few days ago. Get on board with your wife and daughter and get a professional/objective/third party involved. Don't go this alone. You are all too close to the situation to be effective in changing it. You must be exhausted from the stress. Good luck.

BarbBrooklyn, you confuse sacrifice with unhappiness. I am a content 68 year old woman taking care of my 85 year old mother. I have a fine husband, 2 happily married, well educated sons and 4 grandchildren. My husband and I have been to therapy due to the pressures of taking care of my mother when she was alone and 200 miles away. Bringing my mother into our home by creating a separate apartment for her was my solution to my Christian belief that honoring one's parents means taking care of them in old age, no matter the challenges. My mother is an 85 year old bipolar who also suffers from alcoholism and dementia.
Poor decision is looking for a solution to a problem similar to mine, a dominating mother who has made many bad decisions, who may also have addictions. Although he does not mention age, she may be suffering from dementia and /or mental illness. He is also a practicing Catholic attempting to keep his family together. He and his wife may find my husband's and my solution of separation and respect to also work well for his family.

Some families are happier knowing their parents are safe under their roof, even if it means difficult years battling their parent's demons. I sleep well knowing my Mother is safe.

Other people cast off their difficult family members in favor of pursuing their own unencumbered happiness.

'Poor decision' is looking for solutions. I have offered him one that has worked well for my family.

IM, I'm glad that you are content with your decision. I was simply pointing out that "going to therapy" doesn't necessarily mean another party ( the problematic person) must attend.

IMbabci2,

I too was raised having a very dysfunctional relationship with my mother (still have it), and if you read my comment I am a total proponent of separate quarters for the MIL as I know this is really the only way to improve the situation, other than moving the mother to an outside care facility.

I, like you, think that when our parents are older and ill, needing us the most, is when we need to put our love into action, even if it means sacrifice.

But where I disagree is where you recommend the husband should talk to the mother, I think that’s absolutely incorrect and will for sure backfire. A daughter that doesn’t represent a figure of any authority or even an equal to her mother (your case, my case, and many others’ case) and that has a mother with a “challenging” personality, knows very well that the result of having a husband talk to the MIL will create a battlefield between husband and MIL and a much worse situation between mother and daughter (mother will take her anger and direct it to the daughter too, making her feel even more guilty, because guilt is a given in dysfunctional environments), daughter will feel like she is in the middle between her husband (who will end up resenting her for not enforcing what he talked about with MIL) and her mother...in other words, pure unnecessary hell!

Hence I think it’s absolutely worth it to even invest in peace of mind and buy a house with a separate area for the MIL. But if a conversation is to take place, it should be husband and wife or wife alone with MIL, that, I’ve no doubt about.

All this is understanding that with that type of people -narcissist, codependent, even addicted- what works best is action without words, as they are not able to fully comprehend and relate to what one is trying to convey, they simply cannot register it, so if you were to just tell the mother: Mom we are moving, and it’s a bigger house. You’ll even have your own kitchen, bathroom, etc. That means end of conversation. Easy and effective.

I have never understood why some posters feel that if you don’t keep a family member in your own home that you are casting them off to enjoy life. My dad has never lived with us but let me tell you the issues, problems and mental anguish doesn’t end because they don’t live in your own home. My dad wanted to be independent up until he could no longer and that why we selected a place that offered IL, AL, and LTC. People should do what works best for all involved. We are all different.
I wish the OP would come back and tell us an update.

"OTHER PEOPLE CAST OFF THEIR DIFFICULT FAMILY MEMBERS IN FAVOR OF PURSUING THEIR OWN UNENCUMBERED HAPPINESS."

OUCH! IMBabci2,
I had an electric shock go through me when I read that. I certainly hope you don't mean that everyone who doesn't have their parent(s) under their roof is having the time of their lives at the suffering expense of their parent. If you do mean that, I'm highly offended.

I am a Christian also. I didn't "cast off" my 95 year old mother with Alz. to a memory care facility so I could go party!!
I tried to keep her in my home with her screaming at the top of her lungs at 2 am and were about to be evicted. Our landlord wasn't too appreciative.
My already bad back was getting worse, having to lift her and reposition her. I already get injections for the pain. I guess I could have wound up completely immobile (then I'd be NO good to her) but I chose to have 3 shifts of professionals help her. The doctor at the facility has been great, as have the staff. She hits them at times but they take it in stride. She gets more care there than I could give her. I also had to work 3 days a week and she flat refused to have my husband help her. She'd scream and hit him.

Keeping your parents in your own home is NOT THE ONLY WAY to honor your father and mother. I have given her better care by placing her in the facility than I could give her by myself. I am honoring her by giving her the best.

In the future, I'd appreciate it if you would think of the reasons why an adult child may HAVE to place their parent in outside care. Not everyone is physically and/or mentally capable of taking care of their parents.

I'm sure you didn't mean to be as offensive as your post was. Compassion is needed, because we haven't walked a mile in another's shoes.

Here, here, Sue! I was in-tune enough to know I could never have my mother live in my house. I didn’t dump her in a facility and go party, either. I went home and changed hubby’s diapers and washed his dirty sheets. And, after 5 years of caring for hubby by myself, if I’m ever able to place him in a facility I wouldn’t come home and party either. I’d come home and be very, very lonely.

Amazing, some posters here are real-life happy happy joy joy Waltons big happy family types. All ever-embracing luuuuv, and kumbayah, willing to take their abusive, bipolar, shrieking, incontinent old soaks of relatives into their houses. As if that's going to get them a special seat in heaven or something! .... Amazing! They're better martyrs than me. After a lifetime of abuse, too!....well, enjoy.   Anything to make themselves feel superior to other!

Kandula: MIL has no idea what a healthy marriage is like. So she resents her daughter for having one. And she resents you for existing.

MIL might be happy (on some level) that you are patient, kind, responsible and a good provider. And voila! - you are not abusive and not an addict. By extension, your solid character benefits MIL.

But by dint of having a stable home life and a husband who values her, your wife is not in MIL’s “club.” This galls MIL, and she uses it as a barrier to any sort of adult-to-adult relating among the 3 of you.

What a pickle. If any positive change is on the horizon, your wife needs to be the initiator and the boundary-setter. Right now, this is way outside your wife’s comfort zone.

I recommend therapy and couples’ counseling, to help your wife shift out of the scapegoat/enabler role.

Very well said, Lassie!

and blackhole - I think I'm going through that with my hub since his parents didn't have a healthy marriage

I think Kandula has left the building. He hasn't made any comment since his original post. I don't think he's been back since then.

SueC1957, Later stage ALZ does indeed require specialized care. No insult is intended to those who seriously consider their parents situation and find they are unable to care for them properly. My comment shows the two ends of the spectrum of aging parental care.

Roses003, You are correct that private talks between Mother and daughter are preferable and you are also correct that this is the first step. In my case, this had no benefit, as I am my Mother's co-dependent. Only when my husband intervened and spoke kindly, respectfully, and very firmly (handing her the telephone book and instructing her to begin a search for a new apt.), did my Mother understand that she must change her excessively rude behaviors and excessive beer/wine use. He asked her to treat me with the respect I deserve for catering to her wants and needs. My mother's outwardly rude behaviors are directed at me only. So far this has been successful for us. My Mother suffers from bipolarism, an often undiagnosed mental illness. Over the years medications were tried. She rejected them in favor of alcohol. Slowly reducing her intake has been our best option in keeping her safe and as balanced as possible.



BarbBrooklyn, Agreed, I misunderstood. In our case going to a crisis counselor not only gave us confidence in our approach, but she was also informed about legalities, such as removing my mother's car keys and not giving them back as she was driving under the influence.

Lassie,

I’m sorry but I actually find your comment offensive. That last phrase: “anything to make them feel superior to others” is completely out of place. As inaccurate as it is to say that anyone that places their loved one(s) in an outside care facility is “casting them off” .

Both statements are assuming and implying circumstances, reasons and, worse, feelings that no one has the right to assume, judge and decide for others.

IMBabci2, your mother's situation concerns for another totally other situation where someone is doing the same thing, only I don't she's ever managed to have a family for that to even be a consideration when she gets older; I just wonder what will happen to her if she doesn't change her alcohol use

My deepest sympathy for your predicament. Many years ago I had a similar situation with my husband's father. I resented him because he was an alcoholic and was occasionally escorted home by the police in the middle of the night. Other times I would come home in the middle of the afternoon and the whole house would smell of the booze he had drunk and he would be passed out on his bed. He would sleep until mid-morning or noon and then ask for bacon and eggs rather than something like cereal which he could get himself. My husband expected me to comply but I felt if he could open the fridge to get a beer, he could open it to get his own breakfast. He was unkind to our two toddlers and certainly not setting a good example. I won't bore you with any more details but there finally came a time when I was ready to leave the situation myself. I took my FIL out for a drive and explained to him that I understood that he enjoyed living in our home with us, but that if he stayed any longer, there wouldn't be any home as I was ready to divorce his son over the situation. He realized that I meant it and within a few weeks my husband had helped him to find a place to board in a nearby town. As a psychologist once said to me, "Sometimes you have to sacrifice a branch to save the tree". I think you should take your wife out somewhere you can discuss this quietly so that she will understand how you feel. You should let her know how really desperate you feel about it otherwise she will feel that it only bothers you from time to time. She should also understand that neither of you is responsible for your MIL's difficulties. She made her own choices in life and is very lucky you have helped her up to this point. Good luck, Kandula9999.