I have been caring for mom for 14 years now, however, it is becoming dangerous for her and my family. She is denied Medicaid. Makes too much money. The immediate issue is that the hospital is releasing her and when I told them she cannot come back here, they said either I pick her up or they will deliver her by sheriff. Can they do that?
Secondly,If you haven't done so already speak to either the case manager or social worker regarding your concerns for your mom's care and safety.Be very descriptive.Don't just say she can't come back here.Relay your concerns.
Thirdly,
If your mom has been given a discharge date a notice should have been given to her or you.
If one hasn't ask for it. There is information on the notice regarding appealing her discharge.
Make sure you appeal prior to the discharge date.Any and all medical documents you can provide regarding her dementia will be an asset.Have her PC write a letter stating how imperative it is that your mom be placed in a memory care facility and his finding.There is no guarantee that you'll win but won't know if you don't try.
I had to file several appeals when my mom was rehabbing after a stroke at a SNF and I won all 3.
Make sure you retain the case and fax number.All documents faxed over must include the case number and your mom's name.
Goodluck
The hospital cannot keep your Mom after she is physically well, even with dementia. Hospitals are for physical illnesses, not long-term care. Find your Mom a nursing home. You will have to pay with whatever savings she has. If she does not have savings, her social security money will have to be transferred to the nursing home. In addition, she will go on Medicaid. Don’t despair. This is done all the time. Just try to find your Mom a nice nursing home close to you.
I have just been through this with my brother. You can read my story at (Mzsz1977) and all the helpful comments caring people shared with me. We have been caring for my bother for 4 years after my mom died unexpectedly. With out this blog I don't think we would have made it to this point. He is finally in a LTCF as of yesterday and we did not have to pick him up.! It has taken about 4 weeks and 3 different hospitals but the advice we received worked. Good luck and know you are not alone. If you cant find my post let me know. I think it's under POA questions.
Take care! Mzsz1977
Quicker, now that I have the topic is to select the Search icon at the top of the page and copy/paste "I'm Medical and financial POA of my brother. He needs 24/7 SNF. He is also a convicted sex offender, so hospital can't find placement. Advice?" will get you to the link for that thread.
If nothing else, it is somewhat of a feel good thread, as things worked out for this person!
I did that for my mom. But you have to do it before she leaves they premises.
You can ask the doctor to discharge her to rehab if she has been in the hospital for 4 days and on Medicare. This will allow up to 100 days. Medicaid laws are complex and varies from each state, and there is a 5 year look-back law, which would require an eldercare attorney's services to sort out. Overall, the nursing home will absorb all assets and if you all been spending your mom's money over the last 5 years that will come as a penalty. Something like they will allow nursing home, but the patient has to pay for it out-of-pocket until the penalty (what you all accessed of her money not related to her care or her home) is spent for her nursing home care. Ask a social worker about nursing home placement and financial arrangements.
Assisted living arrangements are only possible if she is still self caring but just needs some overseeing. They are limited what they can do.
I am so sorry to hear this! I am sorry to say this. I don't like being disrespectful but those people are idiots! My God, I would have been furious with that phone call accusing you of neglect! Yeah, like they care about your mom. They clearly don't care. So ridiculous! So much freakin red tape that doesn't make any sense at all!
People don't care. It infuriates me. I'm in a funk from watching the news earlier. First a woman was killed by a float at one of our parades tonight. After that a report came on about a 15 year old honor student that was riding the bus to school with his brother. The kid had epilepsy. He had a seizure on the bus and no one helped him!
The bus driver was told by the kids on the bus that he needed help and he just ignored him. The kid died at Children's Hospital. Such a sad story. I started to cry listening to his dad speak.
Bus drivers are supposed to have basic training in emergencies. They are transporting kids. They should be responsible people. The bus company is claiming the driver was not at fault. The parents said it was all caught on camera. Our buses have cameras on the bus. They are making their son's story public so another child won't die like their son did.
They are placing pressure on the bus company to force them to be responsible while transporting children. The kid's brother begged the bus driver to help. He neglected that kid. By the time he pulled over and the kid was transported to Children's Hospital he was brain dead. The brother asked for help to follow instructions what should be done quickly when seizures happen. The bus driver would not even look at the instructions.
The same with your mom. You have told them your mom should not be alone! They are heartless! Makes me crazy. I don't care if it's the law or not to be able to legally discharge her.
Can your attorney intervene? Talk to the facility that is threatening to send her home?
Can you call a local nursing home and have her go there? If she has money, it will go to them, then she will have to go on gov't aid. Even if she goes in for "respite care" so that you can have some time to figure out what the heck to do long term. Do not take her back home, unless she is going to have lots of aids and maybe new meds to help her better than before she went for eval.
Her needs are VERY high and if you are done, then you're done and you have EVERY right to be.
There was an article about how a family fixed up their basement so that the in-laws/parents could live there. The comments were all about how great that family was to take care of their elders, how it's a shame that more people don't do that, etc. I was appalled!
I would call that person, and tell them you are recording the call (and do so). State the date, your name, your mother's name, the name of the hospital and ask that person to state their name. Inform that a copy of the recording will be going to your lawyers office.
Then proceed to tell them your mother can not be safely discharged to your home and that she has been violent in your home. Any push back and just state again- this is not a safe discharge to my residence at (say your address) for (mother's name).
If they keep pushing, repeat above and then say that is all you have to say and end the call.
See if that changes anything.
Unfortunately, these types of situations are becoming increasingly common. There was a story this week that a N.C. NH discharged an elderly man with only 25 mins notice to his daughter due to nonpayment by insurance. They called her and told her to pick him up in 25 minutes. She was at work and unable to leave and explained that it was not possible. So, the NH arranged for wheelchair transport which left the disabled senior in front of her house. She found him crying and screaming and soaking wet from a passing storm upon her return home. They never notified her that they were transporting him. The medical system hasn’t been about people or caring for a long time. The best way to protect yourself is to have a lawyer because finding someone to help or intervene on your behalf is nearly impossible.
In the eyes of the law, your home is her home. She has had legal tenancy for over a decade. Worst case scenario, she returns...any time she is violent or displays a threat to herself or you and your family, call 911. Get video of each episode. It is possible to have her removed from the home for an involuntary psych admission. At that point you may have more leverage in refusing her return.
In my case, I had a very similar experience with my aunt with dementia. She lived in my home with my children and I but became increasingly angry and violent. One day she struck my daughter. I contacted every NH within 30 miles and was fortunate enough to find one that would take her. She was out of my house within 24 hrs. I packed some things and delivered her myself. The attorney was able to get her on Medicaid through legal spend down of assets, etc. It was awful so I appreciate what you’re experiencing. No one else in the family would step up and they in fact, made it more difficult.
Sending you strength and courage to get through this. Keep us updated.
https://nelf.org
Elder Law foundation.
Not just any attorney. Call and elder law attorney now, you need help now this is an emergency.
"I have violent videos of her going after my youngest daughter swinging household objects at her. If this continues I feel as though I will have a heart attack or stroke."
YOU and YOUR family matter here. You very well COULD have a heart attack or stroke, with untreated high bp. PLEASE refuse to take her back to your home. Make sure the hospital knows what she did to your child.
And please keep us updated!!! I wish you had your appointment with the attorney before 2/27.
I feel your pain! I cared for my my mom for 15 years in my house and I would never want to go through that again. It’s too difficult. It doesn’t mean that you don’t care. We can look for other arrangements for their care. It only means that extensive care by one person wears us out! We become exhausted and burn out. How can we care for others if we are spent!
It will work out, one way or the other.
Go slow on this. Think things through. Only YOU know all of the pieces of the puzzle. With that said:
Your mom is her own person - that is if you don't have guardianship. Even with POA - you are in a sticky spot.
Unsafe discharge?? Really?
Let's look at 'Reasonable Expectation'. Your mom has a reasonable expectation at this point that YOU are her caregiver - you have been for 14 years. She also has a reasonable expectation that she live/resides legally under your roof. That is a reasonable expectation. Your HOME has been HER home for 14 years. Techinicaly she is a tenant under your roof. You just can't throw her out in a matter of one hospital stay if she recovers ok. Hard pill to swallow eh? I'm sure that is why the Hospital is ok with discharge with the sheriff in tow. They know what her reasonable expectation is and HER legal standing. Don't think for one second that they don't have a lawyer weighing this out. (don't forget . . you're mom tells all with the docs and nurses!)
Think again with 'unsafe discharge'. Your mom is depending on you. She has been for the last 14 years. You're going to shut her down - just like that! ? The hospital is seeing - safe discharge - been that way for 14 years.
so. .
Put yourself in her shoes. Then try and work together and get a solution that works for the family.
Yeah right. Easier said then done.
I'm not siding with your mom or you. I'm simply pointing out you need to be careful how you proceed with HER LIFE while protecting you and your family at the same time.
It's clear that she needs to be in AL or MC or whatever - Send her there, with love and dignity, or force . . .but do it legally.
I take your dilemma seriously and to heart. If it were me . .I would try and keep the sheriff and the hospital's lawyers out of it. Get with your lawyer - find a way to move her out of your home and into a safer nurturing place that she can call her 'new home'.
Just my opinion of course. Good Luck.
I am so sorry that you are struggling with this situation. A friend of mine recently died. He had colon cancer and a stroke. He was being treated for his cancer. He had a stroke, was very confused afterwards and wrecked his car. Poor guy did not even realize he had been in an accident.
He was single with no living relatives except for a nephew that he didn’t have a relationship with. Anyway, he was supposed to meet us one night at a mutual friend’s house and didn’t show up. It was very unlike him not to meet us so we went to his apartment to check on him. He was disoriented and we called 911 to take him to the hospital.
The hospital ran test and we learned about him having a stroke. He told the doctor to communicate with us because he had no family. We had access to his medical records.
His doctor said he could not live alone ever again, no more treatment for cancer, and pressured us to become his POA, we refused not wanting the responsibility.
He knew that he could not come live with us. We told his doctor there was no one for him to live with and he needed to be in a nursing home. They admitted him in the home. He died about two weeks later.
I wonder if that would happen in your case, if no one will accept her then they will not have a choice but to find placement. My friend was already on Medicaid. There was no spending down for him.
I would tell them that she isn’t able to be left alone and you are not available to house her any longer. Sad but true. Tough spot for you. I would do all that I could to avoid her coming back to my house.
Does she have a key to your home? You could change the locks if she does. Someone suggested that you go on a trip. Why not? Yes, inconvenient but might not be a bad idea. Even checking into a local hotel for awhile if you have to, or one of those extended stay places that are available.
My friend who is a nurse says they send patients home in a taxi all the time. I have not heard of a sheriff escorting someone.
It sounds like you need to talk to the social worker on her floor to begin the process of entering your mother into a Skilled Nursing Facility. Which could result in a discharge directly into a SNF, nursing home
You will need to Liquidate her assets to pay for the SNF. You goal is to work with a social worker to locate a Skilled nursing Facility for your mother; the SNF will send someone to meet with your mother at the hospital, and you can visit, the facility. For future considerations try to choose a Medicaid facility, eventually she will run out of funds, and will need Medicaid, which is technically how everyone ends-up, in the U.S.
At this point you must clarify that your home is an "unsafe discharge," therefore you need to start, now.
We had an out-of-state family arrange the discharge of a 49 yr old pt., into a SNF. The mother of the pt. was in constant contact with the social worker on the 4th Floor (acute care floor), the mother refused to visit the patient., during the 5-week hospitalization . Nobody in that family appeared in the hospital, the patient., had a lot of friends visit, but zero family. It was a awful situation to witness.
OR, you can pay for Home Based Care Services, which equates to your mother being discharged back into your home. HBCS are services advertised on television as alternatives to Skilled Nursing Facilities. You have options.
You keep saying...
She has dementia WITH behaviors (this is a medical term that should indicate to anyone who works in geriatrics, etc that the dementia has a danger component to it) that are escalating. Not only would she not be safe in YOUR home, you do not feel safe. As much as you love her, you cannot allow someone to come back in who has demonstrated such aggression to your child. And then go up the hospital food chain... say you have put a call in to an attorney as this staff member appears to be trying to strong arm you. Tell the next level up that you have told this person repeatedly that you will not accept responsibility for someone who needs far more care than you can provide because it would be unsafe for your mother, that you have made it clear that you can no longer continue to have the patient stay with you because of the DANGER they present to your MINOR children. That no one will be allowed to force their way into your home... you have been kindly allowing her to stay there, but between her increased needs and aggression to you and your minor children, it is no longer an option.
I might throw in that you are concerned that this facility may not realize it has employees that are possibly not trained well enough for their positions to be able to engage and assist their patients without resorting to threats. That could leave the hospital very vulnerable to lawsuits.
You would much prefer to work with the hospital (they through their contacts) to help get your mother settled into an APPROPRIATE environment. This should not be something they are unequipped to help with.
After you have been firm, reiterate that you both have the same goal, that mother is discharged to an appropriate environment that is safe for her and those around her. How do we work toward that goal?
You want to look reasonable, logical and calm to the hospital, the sheriff and the attorney you end up using. The hospital should be in a defensive position, not you.
The eviction type thing could be an issue, but keep reinforcing unsafe discharge and danger to minors. And keep your house unavailable to anyone trying to bring her back to stay with you.
I hope someone responds with more firsthand knowledge... I just wanted to throw out some language that might get results for you BEFORE something major happens. Best wishes.