How do I detach and keep boundaries, but still stay in contact with my mom?

Fedup45,
Didn't you say you bought their home because your father played you? If so, why is he selling his condo?!! Doesn't that belong to you? If so, you might consider putting a lien on it or speaking with an attorney about it! Just trying to help you! I hope that things are going well for you! 🙏

Great news about your parents going to an assisted living facility!

It would have been too difficult for you to care for your five year old and your mom who needs so much care.

Plus, your dad doesn’t get to order his grown daughter around. He thought that he could make demands and have you follow his instructions. Glad that you weren’t agreeable to allowing him to have things his way. Good for you!

fedup - I am so glad your dad is now in assisted living where staff can keep an eye on him and on your mother when she moves in there. But, I do wonder, if she is in late stage dementia if assisted living is suitable for her. I am glad they have memory care as well. It would be better for you if she is in a different part of the facility so you could visit. It seems that any visit with dad present will be abusive to you. Apart from your dad's crazy behaviour, don't you feel better that they have moved? I am sorry things are so difficult for you.

First of all, the live-in companion/caregiver whatever you're calling it is getting a grand a week in cash. She cleans up the sh*t in the bathroom and does ALL of the housekeeping, shopping and errand running. You do not.
I was an in-home caregiver for 25 years (both agency and private). I now operate my own homecare business. The things I have named here are the duties of a live-in caregiver. Their job is not just to sit there and smile at someone all day. You have a word with their live-in that either she gets up off her lazy a$$ and starts working or she will be getting snitched out to the IRS or the INS depending on which applies.
Secondly, send APS and the police to your parents's house to do regular wellness checks. They will. I'm pretty sure they will take action and well they should. Yes, you'll be throwing the live-in under the bus, but she deserves to be if she's getting paid for services and isn't providing them. Throw her under the bus big-time.
The lack of work ethic in homecare makes me sick.
Next you should petition for conservatorship over your mother. Clearly your father is not coping and very likely has dementia himself. A classic symptom of Alzheimer's disease is secretiveness and creating chaos. He had a stroke himself and it sounds to me like he is incompetent himself and needs care. Ask for the wellness checks from the police and APS.
In the meantime, DO NOT clean up another mess for them put out another fire. Many times you have to let things get worse before they can get better. Talk to an elder law attorney. Just for a consultation so see how best you can move foward with your parents.

Just an update. The rehab facility told my dad my mom couldn't return home. He misunderstood the facility regarding discharge. He said at this point another week. I checked yesterday they do not have a discharge date for her. I have no idea where he got the date he shared.

My dad is now at the assisted living facility. He moved in yesterday. My mom will join him there when she's released from the rehab. They supply their medications, food, assistance with bathing, social events, they also have memory care. It costs less than having the least helpful live-in aide on the planet.

At this point it's thought she's in late state dementia.

You say: " he has literally said it looks like someone sh*t all over the bathroom, go clean it up. It took me three hours to clean that bathroom."

* You need to STOP your behavior.
* You are allowing your dad to disrespect / if not abuse you (perhaps a lifelong pattern).
* Remove yourself from this situation ASAP.
* If you feel intervention is needed, call APS (Adult Protective Services).

* You need to feel worthy to make healthy decisions for yourself - and your mother. You appear to be unable to do this now.

* Get into therapy. You appear to need support of a mental health professional - to feel better about yourself as a whole functioning being. You are allowing your dad to behave / treat you as he has likely for all of your life. Only you can change this by how you respond (as) you will never change his behavior.

* You need to let go of 'all this.' Stop holding on to what you cannot control. Then, you will have a larger perspective and less anxiety and perhaps fear, and then able to make healthy decisions for all concerned. It starts with healthy decisions for yourself.

Gena / Touch Matters

I understand. My mom wasn’t that bad, but she was a narcissist. The way I finally learned to cope was to, in a way, think of her as a child. I mean she WASN’T a child, she was my mom, but her behavior had changed to that of a child. I kept in mind all the time that my mom took care of us when we were children, and what are children, but tiny narcissists until they learn compassion, empathy, and sharing? She often raised us with no husband or between husbands … mostly in near poverty. You can forgive anyone anything if you remember what they did for you. My Mom was mostly chair bound, got fecal matter all over the bathroom as well as bedding and clothing too, was often sorry for herself, and also could be very petty and demanding. But you have to realize that getting old and infirm is very hard…and scary. Many people act out when they’re scared in very strange ways, and I suspect your dad is no different. Men especially have been taught to “tough it out”, so his aggression is most likely based out of unvoiced fear. If you really realize this, and realize that you are the one that’s in control now, you will be more able to cope with the behavior. They really need you, more than he will ever admit. His anger isn’t at you, it’s fear. You just happen to be there to deal with it. The expectations of the older generation are that the children will take care of them when they’re old and infirm, and it really is the right way to handle it. AL, nursing homes, caregivers etc should be a last resort….but in this “me first” generation, it’s sadly the first option for many. That’s my humble opinion for what it’s worth. They won’t be around forever, try to make peace with coping and being the one that can … because they really can’t anymore. You will feel at peace later that you did what you could to make their process of leaving this earth as easy as it could be, cause they did the same for you entering this earth. For what it’s worth, and hugs for trying….

Fedup45: What a horrible situation with both parents seemingly suffering from dementia (absolutely that is the case with mom and most likely with dad also). Perhaps you can 'work' with the caregiver as far as giving you information. Hopefully dad's financials will hold out, but @ $140/week, they may not.

It sounds like your mother is in the last phase of dementia. You may want to speak with the subacute care center to hear their assessment of where she is at in her disease. Whatever you discover may dictate the next best steps. She appears to currently be in a Medically unsafe home environment. If her walking abilities have deteriorated she may need to be placed in an end of life scenario. Hospice can take over as soon as a terminal illness is diagnosed, which dementia is. They will be a wonderful addition to your team. Please call them.

Your father needs a new cognitive and physical assessment by his PCP with you filling in the info.. He does not sound cognitively appropriate to make any decisions and his as abusive behavior may be surely a part of his history but may also be amplified by his diminishing cognitive status ( sounds like to me). You can also call Adult Protective Services and report the status
( unsafe and biological hazard / feces etc, negligence re: your mother etc) .
When he starts abusive behavior, call 911 and have them transport him to ER where you can then confer with team including social services about how to proceed.
Get help....
You are being abused...
Your mother is being neglected...
You may also be well served by consulting with an Elder Care Attorney.

See your own PCP for your own self care...

OP, it’s 10 days since you posted, but your profiles says that you will read but not “participate on site”. So I’ll post, in case you are still reading.

Re D, your last post says you are at “zero contact with him again”. So that leaves M. You say “Honestly, my mom is sweet on the phone...but most times she's miserable. In her defense she has depression too, but she's started some doozies at the house about not showering, not wanting to go to the drs and wanting cigarettes. It's very sad, she kind of just sits there pouting watching her shows, no conversation. She refuses all her care and dad let's her”.

It sounds as though your ability to change things for your M (or to change your M) is as limited as your ability to change D. M had decades to stand up to D, and she didn’t. You would need a magic wand to intervene in that toxic mix. I know well from my own experience that when one person is ‘worse’, you tend to exonerate the other, when in fact they and their toleration are an essential part of the problem.

It may be that the best thing you can do is to leave any ‘solution’ to the state agencies or to chance. Not what you want, but if you can’t solve things, don’t punish yourself.

Remember this...you're mom stayed with him. Sadly, this is what she chose. She could have left the narcistic person at any point but most likely, was the enabler so its kind of like what did she expect and what did you expect? You were either going to be the family donkey under immense amount of pressure/abuse or you were going to walk away. Those are your choices. When your mother was of sound mind you should have tried to convince her of her choice of staying and what the consequences look liked for the future because the future is here and the narcissist never is the one to suffer, ever.

why would you clean up the shit in the bathroom; let him live with it; then call Adult protective services if he hasn't cleaned it up; let them see how he is treating his wife.

don't do anything to help and call Adult protective services; he can't make you a slave; he has to participate in her care if he is able and he is making her care impossible. Narcissism isn't an excuse; get the state involved tell them what you have had to do but are not doing it anymore because he is abusive to you.

I understand your situation all too well. My Dad is the same way and APS has two cases on him. They did NOTHING, but tell us to "take care of it (situation with him)". We asked what can we do? He would not give any of us POA and would not go to the doctor to be evaluated. They also advised us to get courts involved but did advise that it would cost money to do so. We were using the money for my Mom's care. My mom did pass away within the past month. It pains me that he interfered so much with her care.

I ended up going to counseling regarding setting boundaries. Set the expectation with him of what you are willing to do and maintain that. I wish you peace in this situation.

How about you meeting with an Elder Law Attorney about her final papers and start videoing his abusive behavior so that you can call Adult Protective Services to help place her in a nursing facility. Maybe call the IRS for tax evasion issues he is committing regarding mom's care?

Then block him on your phone and trespass him from coming on your property or making calls to threaten you.


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In my experience i have noticed that when calling elder care, they don't ever consider your side of the story. They are totally for the senior patient in need. i had been taking care of my brother in my home for over a year and have had abuse issues with my brother in the past, one being: He wanted to talk and i didn't because i was having my dinner (we were already arguing) and wanted to wait a little later but he didn't like that so he would stand there and watch me, which was irritating. I told him to leave me a lone and he took my plate and thru it across the room, then came toward me. I picked up a simple stick and hit him on the arm that was reaching out to me. He finally left me alone and i called the police. I was almost arrested for hitting him with the stick and nothing was said to him even though my food was all over the floor. I told police i was scare and it was self defense and they said well you hit him and that is assault. Then next thing Elder care comes knocking at my door asking my brother if he wanted to to press charges against me of course he didn't because he had enough since to realize the error he made and where would he be without me. Previously he pinned me to the ground after which i called the police and they did did nothing about it, my word against his. Be careful, always be aware of what your rights are, sometimes you don't have many. Elder care is always for the Senior patient. even though i was 68 years old and it was my home.

You cannot change or rehabilitate a narcissist. I am speaking from my own experience of living with one. A narcissist will NEVER admit that he has a problem. The only thing YOU can do to maintain YOUR sanity is to walk away from this behavior and have no interaction with your father. As a narcissist gets older, his behavior gets worse to the point where he gets paranoia and he will blame everything that he does wrong on you.

Your only and major concern now is for your mother’s care and comfort. If your father is refusing to allow you to have a say in her care then it’s time to call in your State’s APS as others on this forum have suggested.

Again, for YOUR own sanity, you need to walk as far away (in fact, run as far away) from your father as you can and let your father wallow in his own self-pity, but try your best to make sure your mother is in a safe place and is being taken care of.

Don’t deal with him. You are letting someone who is not thinking right anymore dictate you. Yes, it’s your father, but when thinking clearly leaves the picture, it doesn’t matter what the relationship is. He is just not thinking right and you don’t need to be involved in that.

Try to think of it as being estranged from his illness, rather than him. Get your mom in a facility. Call Adult Protective Service if nec.

It sounds like being in a care facility is working out for you and your mom. If I were in your shoes, I'd never visit my dad again.

II know how truly frustrating and disheartening all of this must be! My mom is going through a lot of irrationality as well. She completely does not trust me and has put total trust in someone she's only known for only 4 months. She even wants to make her her poa. What's worse is the woman has agreed to it not knowing anything about our family or my mom's background with her drinking and verbal abusiveness! It's scary to say the least as I have no idea if this woman might have any other intentions.

II have gotten very close to God and have tried to do a lot of letting go! If it were me and my mom was put in a rehab and would not be going back to a good situation, I would ask the doctors if they could perhaps look into perhaps having her have better care in assisted living. If need be, take pictures of the house in disarray and see if you can get guardianship of your mom. That way your dad will not be involved. Maybe you could set up a group like naborforce who are seniors as well and help to take care of other seniors. That way you will not have to focus on him and take his continual his abusiveness. Sending you prayers and wishing you all the best!

Contact your local adult protective services. Your dad doesn’t sound capable of caring for your mom and if he doesn’t hire someone to help APS will have to intervene. You can’t help your mom if she’s at home. Also, if she leaves the rehab facility they are required to have a “safe discharge” so sending her home without help lined up is not safe.
Your father won’t be happy about all of this, but remember his stroke is impairing his judgment even more now.

Contact the rehab and describe his care of her. Adult Protective Services is also a necessary move. If possible, record some of his tirades and take pictures of the messes you describe. Sounds like both of them are past the point of decisions and self-care. You may be able to intervene with some evidence. However, it doesn't sound like the situation responds at all to your current interventions. Perhaps, there might be a change if you stopped intervening. They do have a "friend" as you describe who is there for real emergency contacts (fire, etc.). There is no point in efforts that are useless or not accepted. In fact, you may delay a solution to an impossible situation. Good luck, I don't mean to diminish how sad this situation is for you. But sometimes walking away is best for everyone (after real attempts to obtain intervention from authorities.)

Your bio states: Dad is a narcissist, says it's my job as daughter to care for mom and he "didn't sign up for it".

You probably know that's a bunch of cow manure. When your dad married your mom and took vows for "sickness and health, better or worse", etc, he WAS signing up for "it".

Have your read Cloud and Townsend's book, "Boundaries"? I highly recommend it. I've struggled with boundaries also.

Your parents should be in a facility.

It sounds like you want to choose to be estranged. This is your choice and you have control over everything in your world.

Strike a balance between which choices you can live with. Only you can determine this (not us).

You will outlive your mom and someday you will not be able to visit her ever again. So compress enough visits in the time you have together to last for your lifetime.

As for the comment about cleaning the bathroom, this may be the wrong crowd to gripe to. We all sympathize snd empathize, but put on your big girl gloves, mentally hold your nose and just clean it up. This is part of life and death, living and care-providing and being a kind person for others. We all will make such messes and clean up such messes and if you can’t handle cleaning that up, you have no right to hospital care or EMT services or surgery when you need it. Your mom cleaned for you when you couldn’t do so yourself. Do not humiliate your Mom or any other human if they need help. This insensitive comment diminishes the credibility of the rest of your question.

I’d go grey rock on dad. Look it up if not familiar. And don’t rule out calling APS if you come to feel mom is not safe in the home. So sorry it’s such a difficult relationship

While Mom is in Rehab you may want to bring APS into the picture. Mom needs care and she is not getting it from her husband. Mom can go right from Rehab to a Longterm care facility. The State can make Dad pay for Moms care. Their assets can be split. Moms split gets spent down and then Medicaid is applied for.

I say this with all the kindness and compassion you deserve in mind, stop bending over backwards defending him and convincing yourself everything is fine now. Embrace where you were when you wrote your question, you knew at that point this situation is dangerous and unstable. It's great she's in rehab but even if she stays the full 100 days (which is unlikely and starts costing money after the first 20 or 30 days or some similar time frame) those three months will be over before you know it.

You've gotten great answers but most especially from Alva. Your mom has been abused and if you want to do something about it you need to start now. She could easily be out of rehab and home in a week if she "fails to progress" at rehab. Good luck, you've got a great community here to help you with questions.

Both of your parents have dementia; dad as well, since he's had a stroke which affected his brain, and he's now acting even more unhinged as a result. If this were me, I'd get the caregiver involved to call me and update me about how things were going with mom; I think that's your best bet b/c you cannot rely on your dad for anything at this point. The caregiver CAN tell you what's happening, what hospital or rehab mom is in, etc.

You should not be doing anything for your father at this point; the caregiver is getting $200 a day to doing light housekeeping, caring and cooking, which should be enough to sustain them. She can call 911 should the need arise, and if she agrees to keep you informed, that should solve the issue you're facing. I'm sorry you're in such a position to begin with, it has to be very hard on you.

If mom is in rehab, why not go visit her there? That's what I'd do if it were me. You know dad won't likely be around, and that's a great way to cast eyes on mom and give her a hug w/o dad being around to irritate you.

Best of luck