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okay, so maybe this is complicated by the cultural stuff, but I would be aware and available to be the "American' bad guy. Your husband may need to save face ( and other body parts) in this drama
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Maybe in-laws could buy a home near yours so your husband could see them more often and build whatever bond he's looking for and HE could help them as they age & decline. You will still have some privacy and control over your life. If your in-laws insult you at their home, you can leave and go to your own home.
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I have an appointment on Wednesday with a therapist - a wonderful woman who helped me set boundaries with my mom and DH set boundaries with his parents about ten years ago.

Yesterday (Sunday) was the weekly call with my DH and his parents. They want to come out at Thanksgiving to visit but also to look at houses - something with a separate space for them. They mentioned to DH that DH should be getting together with a realtor and someone who can give us advice on staging our house for sale.

When the call was over, I came into the kitchen and said "I will welcome your mom and dad for Thanksgiving and we will enjoy a great meal and a great day together. However; I will NOT be looking at houses. If you want to move in with your parents - fine, but I will not sell this house and move into a house with you and your parents. They are independent now but as they age we will be expected to provide care that we do not have the training or time to do. Don't you remember how quickly my dad went from independence to needing his diaper changed? He is younger than your dad. If you want to sit down and talk with me, I am ready. I just wanted you to know my position. By the way, I'm meeting the therapist on Wednesday - you are welcome to come with me."

He did not say much and we didn't fight. I think he was surprised that the idea his parents floated last Sunday seemed to be an agreed upon plan in their minds and i think it rattled him a lot. He is someone who takes time to make major decisions.

We had a soccer tournament yesterday and didn't talk about this at all, but I noticed that when I woke up around 2am - he was not in bed. He was downstairs thinking and was up the rest of the night. To me, that is a good sign.

I so appreciate having you guys in my cheering section!
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Kimber, good for you. I hope the appointment goes well.
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Kimber, it's good that you are living in reality and not some idealized fantasy of what things might be. You've been there and know just how much work caretaking is AND how challenging living under the same roof with people who don't respect your boundaries could be like.

I hope you get the support you need from your husband. How in the world would he be comfortable living under those conditions? I don't get it.

I think that in some situations, multiple generations can live together, but, you have to have the right personalities and behavior. I grew up in a house with great grandparents and grandparents and it was awesome, but, that kind of thing is rare today.
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Kimber, I'm glad you're going to a counselor! Hopefully your husband will join you. I don't know if you've done any reading, but the 'Boundaries' book by Cloud and Townsend was very helpful to me. Also, 'Safe People' by the same authors.

Your husband has likely been programmed from a very early age to appease his parents; it takes time to undo that. This comes from someone who also has parents with no boundaries, and I was always the "fixer" and appeaser. That's not a healthy way to live.

A couple of things stood out to me, regarding the conversation with your in-laws:

1) They want to come out for Thanksgiving and look at houses, and 2) they told your husband he "should" be getting together with a realtor.

Those two things alone indicate that they are already trampling your boundaries. They apparently didn't ask, "So, have you thought about our proposal to move in together? What do you think?" Nope, they just "announced" what they're doing. That's not ok, that's abusive bullying, plain and simple.

If it were me, I would nip this in the bud right now, and tell them in no uncertain terms that you will NOT be talking to a realtor yet because you haven't yet decided what to do, (at least hubby hasn't) and you will not be looking at houses with them Thanksgiving weekend. Set expectations up front, so that you can fall back on it later. I've read way too many stories of people who were afraid to confront their narcissistic parents, and got bullied into doing something they didn't want to do, simply because they had never said "No."

I also would be wary of spending Thanksgiving with them, because it will be miserable, and they will probably be guilting/bullying you the whole time.  Been there, done that! Maybe you and your husband and son can go somewhere on vacation for Thanksgiving, and have a family "pow-wow" to decide what the 3 of you want to do about this. Let the in-laws know this is your plan, if you go that route.  In other words, don't just skip town. Tell them that you're not comfortable looking at houses yet, you don't want to argue about it over Thanksgiving, so the 3 of you will be spending time together as a family, to think about the situation. Will they get mad? Of course! But that's their problem, not yours.

Another thought to consider is that they may simply buy a house on their own, quite near you, if you refuse to move in with them. And if they do move closer to you, will it be any better? Probably not. They'll be at your doorstep constantly, intruding on personal family time, and more or less making you miserable. There's a reason that the show "Everybody Loves Raymond" was so popular - it's because so many people can relate!

Best of luck with this!
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Kimber, I love the way you set your boundaries in a kind and clear way, and I love that you are seeing a therapist. Way to go!!
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Whirledtravel makes some great points. People often do have trouble speaking their mind. It can be done calmly and in a nice way. Still, some adult kids just can't seem to be honest about their feelings with parents or even other family members. My family is very much that way. I don't get it. I say what I think, especially, if something needs to be said. lol

For some reason, some people are so concerned about making someone else feel bad......but, what about me feeling bad. That's more important to me. If I'm being put upon and taken advantage of, WHY would I feel bad. Better, that those who are ignoring my boundaries and disrespecting me to feel bad, rather than me. I think more could be worked out if the air was cleared and everyone knew where they stood.
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"We've discussed this issue and no, we won't be looking at houses to buy. We are happy living as a nuclear family and are not wanting to change that."

"Again, no, we're not calling a realtor. We are not interested in moving. We are happy living here by ourselves"

(They indicate that THEY are not happy)

"I understand that you would prefer that we accede to your wishes. But the answer is no, we're happy with our current living arrangements"
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I lit a fuse.....explosion ensued....LONG POST.

On Saturday my ILs called to give me flight information for their Thanksgiving visit. I spoke with them because DH was at work wrapping up the end of some work travel. Then they asked me how it was going getting a realtor. I decided to be truthful "we don't have a realtor nor have we been looking for one. This house is paid off, near our work and school, we are not selling it." Stunned silence.

So, as gently as i could - i asked them what they had pictured happening. As i thought, it was some Walton's view of us having family dinners together, they going to our son's activities. One big happy family even though we cannot agree on what to make for dinner or how clean and neat a house should be.

I asked them about their comment that we would "help them" as they aged (from their last visit when they asked us to "think about" this plan of living together.) Apparently some friend who was widowed last year moved to Arkansas near his daughter. She retired from teaching at age 55 and her kids are all in college or working. She therefore has free time to take him to the doctor and help him around his house. They thought that i would probably work less after 55 and be available for the little bit of driving they would need (little bit! ha!). When i asked about them needing more care like bathing they didn't say anything - they haven't really digested that they would need this kind of care someday (they are 80!! and they avoid thinking about decline)

I told them that neither DH nor I would be financially able to retire at 55, that we would likely be working at least 10 more years beyond that due to needing to fund our own retirement and help our son with college.

More stunned silence. I decided to wrap up the call before they could get angry and said "It looks like you made some assumptions that we just cannot meet, unfortunately. I'm glad we had this talk so you can adjust your plans" and then rang off.

When DH got home i told him about the conversation and when he got upset that i told them nada to the move because we had not had a chance to discuss it and come to a decision. I kind of shut him down "We've had weeks to discuss it and you have not wanted to. I've seen our therapist twice and have invited you to come and you haven't. I have seen no sign that you wanted to discuss it. I would be happy to, but we will discuss it with the help of our therapist - we'll get too angry and the conversation will get too emotional otherwise"

The @#$#$ hit the fan on Sunday (yesterday). They called DH breathing fire and since he had them on speaker phone in the next room i could hear a good bit. They were furious that he "let them down" about the living together plan. They said that while I was the kind of person who "dumped her dad" in a nursing home, they had expected better of him (even though my FIL's own mom went to a continuing care community - Independent Living to Assisted Living to Nursing Home). On and on it went and DH didn't even try to get a word in. It was pretty ugly but very much the standard when they get crossed. They were too angry to try to get him to agree to living together - they just wanted to shout at him. Then they hung up.

Then later in the day, his uncle on his dad's side called to let him know how hurt FIL was and that he needed to "honor his father and mother" (they thump the Bible to try to manipulate us) and told my DH he needed to "man up and take care of his responsibilities". My DH got one shot in and asked why then had their mom not lived with one of them and his uncle said "not the same situation" and hung up. Now DH is getting pretty boiled up about his parents, me, his uncle (as oldest brother uncle feels he is head of family and can tell all of his siblings and their children and grandchildren what to do). When he is angry, he goes silent..... until he has too much and blows.

Last straw was this morning - he got a wake up call at 5:30 am from aunt/uncle in the old country saying all of the same hurtful things that he already heard. He hung up on them and just started venting. I let it go on for awhile and then said

"You brought this on by letting time go by where your parents clearly thought you agreed to their plan. I don't even know if you agreed to it or not - you wouldn't discuss it with me. I only informed you that I would not be part of it. You've had plenty of time and opportunity to talk about this and you haven't and it didn't go away, but has become a nasty fight. I love you and want to work through this with you. Will you come with me to the therapist on Wednesday, when i have my next appointment?" and he agreed to come.

He went to work feeling pretty picked on and angry with the world. But i think any interest in trying to live with his parents pretty much went up in smoke. Now, we'll likely need our therapist help role-playing the "we intend to stay in our house" etc.

I think the next hurdle will be if they still want to move near us, how much are we willing to do for them. As angry as they were - i predict they'll stay in their house and keep leaning on my BIL/SIL to do for them as they currently do. I think Thanksgiving will be an "interesting" visit - they have already bought their tickets. I think they will still come - if they have given up the living together idea - it will be a visit of "you disappointed us". Worse case - they'll try to manipulate us into agreeing to their plan.
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Good on you for standing up for yourself, Kimber! It sounds like your husband comes from a family of bullies and narcissists - luckily he doesn't seem to share that trait. I'm sure he hates being put in the middle and it would be easier for him to just go along with what they want. I do hope you go to the therapist together and are able to work through your differences and present a united front for his family. Good luck!!!
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Ohmygoodness. Things might be a little tense around the turkey table next month! But you and your H have time to get totally on the same page for this Thanksgiving's script. The title of the play will be "You Must Take Care of Us."

How long are the in-laws staying?
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Unfortunately they allocated some extra time to look at neighborhoods. So they are arriving Wednesday before Thanksgiving and leaving a week later - Wednesday. At least they are not staying with us - they are getting a room through AirBNB. I told hubby, i work Friday after thanksgiving and the week after - so he better think of some entertainment. Especially since our son will be back at school Monday. Interesting days ahead.
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Kimber 166 - I so admire you for standing up for yourself and handling this entire situation beautifully. This story is most interesting to me. Please keep us posted. Peace and Prayers.
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Kimber166, you handled all of that absolutely perfectly. I'm sure the turmoil and contention wasn't easy to weather. And, still isn't over. But good for you for standing your ground.

And some good points made there, for others to remember (myself to name one). If spouse won't discuss it .. that still doesn't then mean that the other spouse has to acquiesce and go along with it.

Great points. So glad you are standing firm.
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Well - they came for Thanksgiving. They arrived on Wednesday - and we went to my son's school for his presentation. Thursday we all enjoyed the meal and walks. Thursday night they wanted to talk about the living together and "how we could make it work".

My DH has had alot of time to think since the blow ups previously and he stated politely and quietly "we have paid off our house, it is in a great location for our work commutes, and we like it. We are not moving"

Then I asked them what they were assuming would happen when we lived together. We found out that since I'm early 50's - that once i reached 55 I'd likely stop working and then would be available if they needed help - to the dr, etc. So i politely told them that i had no intention of stopping working at 55 - that i loved my career, that we needed to save for retirement and our son's college. In short - i could not afford to leave.

They expressed a lot of disappointment but it was not vitriolic. Later i found out my FIL had pulled my husband aside and asked him to promise to take care of MIL and "never put her in the nursing home". Bless my DH - he told his dad that that was a promise he couldn't make, that he saw how grandma needed nursing home care and how my dad needed nursing home care - that we were not full time nursing / hospital in our house.

My DH told my dad straight out - "you have made your own decisions all of your lives. Now you need to make plans for your aging - and loss of mobility especially and eventually loss of ability for ADL and mental capacity" what are your plans when you can no longer drive? etc.

Dad's response was "well that's why we expected you to step up" and my DH reminded his dad about his dad's mom - who chose to move to senior housing when she was 75 - then to assisted living - then to nursing home where she died at 99 1/2.
MIL and FIL were not happy - we got alot of snippy comments about the "young people of today" and self centeredness etc. which we ignored.

But, now it looks like living with us is put to bed. Hopefully they start planning for their future. They are 78 and 80 - no long term care insurance, house with stairs, yard to maintain and no plans for declining years.
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Kimber, I'm smiling as I write this. Your updated post is so heartwarming, and so welcoming, that your husband stood up to his father and made his position clear. You have a strong husband.

I was shuddering a bit though as I thought of how the family developed the scenario and just expected you and your husband to accept it.

I'm so happy for both of you that the attempt to change your lives and force you into home care was thwarted, and that you made a stand against the assumptive and overbearing relatives.

Congratulations!
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Way to go, Kimber!!! My husband's parents long term care plan was moving to our state and my husband and his brother (read THEIR WIVES) would "step up". Because I work part time, the assumption was that I would take time off UNPAID to help them. When my husband took them to tour assisted living near us (she has parkinson's/cancer in remission and he was stroke/cancer survivor with late state copd), they got mad and bought a house near his brother 65 miles away. By the way, MIL is now in SNF due to her parkinson's and an old promise from my husband when he was a teenager to never put her in a home was invoked MANY MANY TIMES.. I told my husband at the time that if she moved in, I moved out. She is still 65 miles away in SNF.
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Kimber, you and your husband's responses should be an example to many about the way to set boundaries. Excellent!!
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Stick to your guns, my parents moved in with me for two months and the friendly fun only lasts for about two weeks and then it was a disaster. They were telling us what to cook, what to do, blasting the TV on super high and taking over the house. I came home from work and thought I was loosing my mind. The TV was blasting as my dad was sitting in the living room and my mom on the table overwhelming me with everything she wanted me to do. I was losing it and feeling I had no space for myself. Yes, I care about them but from those two months, I realized I had my head in the clouds and could never never live with them. they bickered constantly, they shoved their opinions around and I was shocked at how overwhelmed I was. Stick to your guns, he has not clue what it will look like. Do not accept money to buy in --trust me it is a trap and if they want to see your son take him to lunch. Hope this helps
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Good for you and your husband, Kimber. Your in-laws have options still and need to plan for their care. It's lovely when family can do the caregiving, but very few families can do so without hardship. We thought taking care of FIL would be easier than it turned out to be and ended up having to move him into a facility after two years because his dementia and immobility reached the point we could not meet his needs. He never asked us to sell our house or stop working, though. Such major changes would have disrupted your lives in ways you would have regretted. You and your husband made a sound decision for all involved.
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Well done Kimber! And you must be so proud of your husband!
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Your DH saying he'd think about it is not the same as agreeing. But it did forestall any more arguments from his parents.

If I was held accountable every time I said I'd think about it - - - suffice it to say, that is my standard answer if I know I'm not going to do something that is suggested to me.
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I am so thrilled to hear the outcome of your story, Kimber. I can imagine the discussion that went on at your in-laws' before these discussions. "We certainly don't want to end up in a nursing home like FIL's mother." "So, let's move in with son and DIL, and DIL can retire early and tend to us." "Great idea! Let's call them up and tell them about it!" It's so common for aging parents to think they can decide what they want to have happen and the kids will just go along with it, regardless of the consequences for their kids' lives. It's so hard to row against the tide of those expectations, I know from experience. It's so great that you and your husband could get on the same page about this, and that you got it figured out before decisions or promises were made that would be hard to back out of later. So many of us get swept along with the tide and don't realize what a huge mistake we've made until we realize we're drowning. It's so great to hear a success story for once!
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Kimber, Wow you and your husband handled that like champs! Thank you for sharing your experience.
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Invite them to buy a house in the neighborhood - but don't live together as you will either go insane or divorce your DH.

When my own father suggested living with us as he didn't have long to live - - - I told him, You have too long to live to live with us.  And yes, he lived another 25 years.
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It was funny to see my thread come back to life. We are visiting my inlaws over Easter. They have told my husband that they expect me to clean the windows on the Saturday before Easter - all of the windows on a 2 story house - that haven't been cleaned the eight years they have lived there. It is the "least i can do" - somehow they think I owe them. [my InLAWs have always tried to get others to do things for them for free] While i'm cleaning the windows - my FIL/DH are supposed to go golfing & my MIL will take my son to the playground.

My DH said "no way in hell is she cleaning your windows. Your windows - your problem. if you can swing a golf club, you can swing a paper towel with Windex. We'll do it together" and his dad said "no" - housework is women's work. So my DH said NO.

I'm glad he stuck up for me. But we'll hear about it with all of the relatives over for Easter dinner how we (me) refuse to help elderly parents in failing health. I usually just smile and pretend i'm not listening and DH pushes back hard.
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And for the price of a few rounds of golf, someone could be hired to clean those windows! Your hubby is a gem!
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It’s like you have opened the door for your husband to stand up to his parents. And husband is enjoying the practice!! Come on dad, pitch me another one and let me see how hard I can hit it back. He is a fast learner. Now schedule yourself a massage since you have a volunteer babysitter lined up for that time slot. I love this thread.
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Kimber over the Easter lunch you have GOT to have George Formby on as background music "... if you could see what I could see, when I'm cleaning windows!"
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