How to tell my cousins their mom can't live with us?

Where did the "back surgery" idea come from? That is a major surgery that requires a lot of pre-op planning. It's a bit strange to just have a major surgery within 2 weeks without any warning or preparation. Is this an emergency surgery? I kinda doubt it. More like a stunt to get attention.

Everyone jokes around about living together when they are old, but the reality is that it just can't happen. It's hard enough to keep married couples together once their health issues appear and care is needed. It's an unrealistic pipe dream for two sisters who have their own families to think it's going to work out. You need to be firm with your cousins and aunt and just tell them that you can't be the solution to her loneliness and you certainly cannot be her caregiver. I would be afraid to let her come visit because you may have an issue getting her to leave.

Bases on your other posting, I think she is having some cognitive issues and her kids (your cousins) are more than willing to let you take her on. Don't do it. Tell her now is not a good time to visit. Just wait a bit and see what happens.

EN,

Mentally prepare yourself. Auntie will show her azz, probably the day before you leave for vacation. Expect a fall, screaming back injury, etc.

It really sounds like aunt knows you and mom are you g on vacation and is trying to stop you both from going. Make arrangements for the cat now. Don't wait until the last minute. Confirm that someone will be feeding and taking care of cat by Wednesday. This way you have that off your plate and are not trying to scramble at the last minute.

Aunt has now enlisted what are called "flying monkeys" to do her bidding-- create more drama, urgent need, foment more F.O.G., i.e., Fear, Obligation and Guilt.

Well done saying "no".

Family helps family--when it doesn't destroy YOUR life or prevent you from earning a living. Also, I do very little for the known narcissists and liars in the family.

'family should help family'

⚠️Danger Alert!

Can be said with good intentions, ignorant to the details... Or..

This phrase can be weilded as a shovel - handed to you to shovel the 💩 💩💩 (to keep their hands clean).

When that phrase was handed to me.. I picked the messenger apart. Just WHO precicly do you mean should help? YOU are family, no ???
Oh, too busy, live too far, too squeamish, too MALE!!! (Yes that was used too). Once the list of family had been whittled down.. it was done to ONE person. Me! 🤯

How very dare you 🤬
No-body has the right to enslave me. To expect servitude.

So this is when I broke the news that the person in need, needs to actually take RESPONSIBIlTY for themself. To be a 🤬 adult.

If they can't then they must accept non-family help.

Let the chips fall..

I received a phone call from another aunt today that my aunt in the hospital had called. She had listed a litany of reasons to this aunt on how it is urgent that someone come and get her tomorrow bring her to her apartment, then someone needs to take up to her town that she just moved from. Most of the reasons have already been dealt with but a new one is that she had an MRI of her back while in the hospital and now needs to have a back surgery in two weeks due to compression fractures. She told this aunt that she fell down a couple stairs. Which is interesting because she told my mom that she hurt her back during sex with her deceased husband. She also pretended worry about the cat and she knows damn good and well the cat is fine, multiple people have told her.

She didn't call at all on Saturday but I got several calls today. I think she takes occasional breaks to let us know she's mad.

You sound like you're at the end of your rope, so much so that you seem to be asking how to answer questions that have not been posed. No where in your post do I hear your cousins saying anything. What do you mean by your aunt has 4 children? Are they adults?

You're working yourself up into a froth even before the wolf's at your door.

The scenarios that you are rehearsing in your mind reminds me of the joke about the driver who got stuck w/o gas 18 miles past the last-chance-for-80-miles gas station. As he starts walking back to that last chance station, carrying his empty gas can, he tells himself an ever worsening story that the attendent is going to take advantage of his situation and will probably raise the price by 5 dollars. After walking a few more gruelling miles in the blazing sun he's becoming more infuriated and thinks - no, for sure that guy's not going to increase the price by 5 but 10 dollars. Worn out, thirsty and suffering, after a few more torrid miles he tells himself, that son of gun will see me coming all right and with each increasing step he's certain the price will be up 20 dollars over the normal price if he's even lucky. By the time he gets to the attendent, so crazed is he in his filthy sweat drenched severely sunburned beat-up state and hyper imagined possibilities he hurls his gas can at the bewildered guy and tells him to keep his d**n gas.

You called your cousins, and in that conversation you explained beautifully that your mom could visit their mom for a short time. You did not say that during that call the 4 children pounced a proposal on you.

And you posted that you're afraid that your aunt is going to try to come to your home at the end of your mother's visit to her house. We're not there yet.

You can't be blame for being spasmic. You're probably whipped and worried, but worse for you, because you're tired and care worn you don't seem to recognize that YOU are the gentle Godzilla at the gate now. YOU have the responsibility YOU have the power.

Not by volume but by calm stead fast, reasonable, justified, logic you wait for a word, one word from anyone. Smile to yourself 'cause you've done a reversal of mind set. You've been rehearsing your vision of how the play is going to go, brilliantly your way. Author, Author.

They say - ENumb, now you know how much they want to be with each other. It'll even be a help to you them being together. (They may up the ante with cash, Don't do it).

If they start to do verbal maneuvers, I'm telling you to eat up and love every word they may grease you with because now you know, and they don't see, that they just gave you license to rip 'em one, but lady like...

"Cousin, I wish there was a way for me to take auntie in but it's all that I can do to do what I do now. I'm so sorry, but no". Be nice.
Focus on your problems. Do not ever, never, ever take on other people's responsibilites.

But really, I can't imagine 4 adults daring to impose this on you.

"Aunt claims are my father wanted to leave my mother for her."

OMG, what a witch your aunt was. I used to have a friend in HS that always tried to go after someone else's boyfriends. Always bragged to me how these boys wanted her and liked her more than the girls they were with. I stopped being friends with her. Years later, she went to a birthday lunch of a mutual friend. After showing off pictures of her husband and kids, she asked to see pictures of my husband. Uh.. no... I don't have any to show you.

If you said you would care for the cat until the 18th, do so. Make a copy of the keys. One goes to a sibling. One goes to the hospital, to be kept with your aunt's property.

Stop asking. Start telling.

My bookmark

EN; You remember Beatty's quote:

"There will be no plan as long as YOU are the plan"?

So the funeral home has the ashes. There is no one there authorized to take them. You (and SIS) LEAVE the ashes at the funeral home for uncle's spouse to arrange pickup. Just so NOT your issue. There will be a charge? So? So what?

You and your sister need to stop thinking that you have to solve everyone's problems.

I have a colleague who is a social worker; she told me that during training, she counseled a young mother who would bring her infant to sessions and appeared to "almost' let the baby roll out of her lap.

My friend's impulse was to lean forward to prevent the baby from falling. Her supervisor told her that no, she must not do that. The young woman never allowed the baby to fall.

Folks who are troubled in the way that your aunt is (Narcissistic? Borderline? Just neurotic?) often manipulate situations so that others rush in to help. "Swooping" is how my therapist puts it.

Therapy has been enormously helpful to me in this regard, as I too am a swooper. If you are not currently in therapy, I highly recommend it.

EN, I am sorry to be blunt and rude but I've got to tell you, you have a knack for getting into someone else's business.

You didn't have to pick up the uncle's ashes. That should have been a task for one of his children, after all they planned the funeral. After aunt left behind the ashes, probably intentionally, why did your sister take them from aunt's home? She should have informed uncle's children so they could come and take their dad's ashes if the cared to.

You went to aunt's apartment and felt an urge to clean and organize the place. Why? I would like to know why you want to clean someone else's home?

As for house sitting and cat sitting, and the house keys, you don't seem to want to let go of that responsibility. The apartment, who cares? The cat, it really should not be alone and only gets checked on every other day. That's animal neglect in my view. Ask other aunts and uncle nearby or aunt's children to take the cat and take good care of it.

And the biggest one of all, taking the bull by the horns and dragging it to your city. But that's water under the bridge now.

Please do some inner reflection and see why you feel the need to be a fixer of other people's problems.

Didn't the kids want the ashes?

I would be giving the keys, the ashes and anything else that belongs to aunt to one of her siblings. Otherwise, you are creating expectations ( from aunt and your cousins) that you will step up and step in.

She broke up your parents' marriage? Does your mom regret that?

"My sister has my dead uncle's ashes at her home, aunt hasn't mentioned or asked for them once, we are waiting to see how long it takes for her to ask for them."

EN, I am wondering why your sister has the ashes of aunt's husband. Why didn't the children take their father's ashes? Did your sister plan the funeral?

I seriously doubt aunt will ever ask for her husband's ashes. It seems she didn't care for him, and was dismissive of him when he was alive, hardly mentioned about him since he died, then there's no reason she would want his ashes.

I hate to say this but you will probably need to make arrangements for the cat now before you go on your vacation. If that means talking to aunt and kids that's just going to be what you have to do. I dont think aunt should be in an apartment. Assisted living is a better choice. Maybe if you tell aunt you are done and so is mom she will be more open to it.

EN, you wrote:
"I feel like I've been doing something wrong every step of the way."

This is SO how narcissists make you feel.

It's not you, it's her.

As Judge Judy says "no good deed goes unpunished" I am just curious why the Aunt is so into Emotional.

EN, I just wanted to chime in today to say that I find it very inspiring as I have read how you have handled yourself throughout this challenging situation. Echoing what others have said, you truly have your hands full, yet you have been able to recognize that your aunt was in need of a kindness, and you have shown her that.

Enjoy your time away with your own mother. Hopefully your vacation plans will allow for putting your feet up and soaking up the sun, if that is the kind of thing that you enjoy.

Know that you have done a noble thing in helping an elderly family member--even the self-centered ones deserve help. But that does not equate to "becoming her caregiver" or contact person. I believe that the boundaries you have set are manageable, without guilt even if aunt wants more from you.

Well done. I have learned from your example.

How are things going between you and your cousins? They cut contact with your aunt after they decided that she was responsible for her husband’s suicide. You stepped in because they didn’t, and moved her to town. They perhaps have a little bit of justification in expecting you to deal with the fall-out from the move? What a mess!

EN, is it possible to sit down with the kids and discuss her going to a home at least temporarily upon discharge?

I ask because this seems the best way to maintain the involvement you’re ok with, ie the weekly phone calls and monthly dinners. Whereas when she comes home to an empty house, you will probably get more calls, as well as making the call to involve the authorities as a mandated reporter.

Again, you are not her discharge plan her children are. If they or Aunts Siblings are not willing to help her out, you are not the way.
Your cousins need to understand this as do her siblings. I may call her SW and tell her/him in no uncertain terms that neither you nor your Mom will be part of any discharge plan. If your Aunt says you are, she is wrong. She has been told prior to her stay that u and Mom will not be able to help her. She has children that need to take on that responsibility. These SWs or discharge planners need to follow up with the people a patient says will care for them when they return home.

What a pity! This woman burned all her bridges. You feel sorry if you don’t help, but if you do help, she’ll devour you.

I just talked to the kids and they met with the doctor today. He wanted more information and said right now she's staying voluntarily. He said they wont let her go without a safe discharge plan. I told them we can check in on the cat until we leave for vacation in about a week. They are willing to be involved with her as long as she gets treatment. I think she's calling me to try to get me to say that I'll help with whatever she needs so that she claim she has a safe discharge plan. She finally called my mom today and my mom didn't answer either.

EN, you have pushed back, but not far enough if what you want is no or very low contact.

Take the cat, for instance. In my county, animals go to impound at the humane society when someone is Baker Acted or goes to jail if there isn’t someone immediately available.

You don’t sound like you want to be immediately available in this way when the next crisis unfolds.

As I sit here reading this thread it came to me, if this was my Aunt and I laid out what I was willing to do and not willing to do or I couldn't do and had even had to say No and she continued to call me, I would be Mad at that point. Mad because she tried to keep manipulating me.

The children are now involved. E now can and should step back. What her Aunt wants and needs is now up to her children. E was correct in telling a member of the staff to tell her Aunt that the cat was OK and she had keys for the cousins. Her cousins are the only ones who E should be in contact with now. She should tell them that Aunt continues to phone her and please ask her to stop that now the cousins are involved there is nothing more E can do for Aunt. E did a nice thing helping Aunt to locate near siblings and resources. She gave Aunt a list of resources. Its now Aunts responsibility to take advantage of the resouces and if she has a problem she has siblings 20 yrs her jr who have the time to help.
She does not need E.

I think you are right. DO NOT PICK UP THAT PHONE! The one time you do, she will think she has you. Why is this woman calling you after you have layed it on the line, I have no idea. Like you said, there was no contact till 6 weeks ago. If it hadn't been for Mom, would you have even helped Aunt? Would she even have called upon you? Probably No. She would have had to call on one of her younger siblings.

I feel you have done your part. You brought her to where you live to be near her much younger siblings who are in their 60s. Where she lived had no services and her children felt she was the cause of their fathers death. Looks like, for now, her children are walking up to the plate. I think Aunt is afraid she will be forced into an AL or LTC by her children. By calling you, in her mind she can get you to pick her up and at least drop her off at her apt. I don't think picking up the phone and saying No will do anything. You have been telling her what you will and won't do and she is ignoring it for whatever reason. She is 88 and no matter how sharp u think she is, there is age decline.

You did what you needed to do. Her children are now involved, you are right in stepping back. Her future is now in her children's hands, as it should be.

Its sad, and I would have a problem with this, but with people like your Aunt you will need to be BLUNT. A doctor did this with my Mom when explaining her Dementia. He sat her in a chair and sat in one right across from her and looked her straight in the eye and explained to her what she would experience. You could do the same thing but say " Aunt ____, I am not your go to person. I have a fulltime job and care for my Mother. I really do not have a minute to help you. I helped you to move here to be near your siblings and to take advantage of the resources here. That is all I am willing to do, that's all I can do. If you need something, call a sibling. DO NOT CALL ME. DO NOT CALL MOM WITH THE INTENTION OF USING HER TO GET TO ME. You need to realize, the answer will be NO.
Then you need to stick by that No.

Lets hope though, that the children take over and you and Mom will not need to worry about her. I would ask your cousins to please help their Mom understand that she cannot rely on you because you have enough on your plate and that she is not your responsibility. To the point they say "you are not to contact Emotionally for anything"

Take that vacation and forget about what is going with Aunt. Block her calls for you and Mom. If VMs are left, delete before even listening to them. You need this time to relax and enjoy. Vacations are to give your mind a break. Its time for you and Mom.

My new mantra...I am here to help people find a way, not be the way.

From Boundries from Townsend and Cloud...When saying the word NO, you are not responsible for the reaction you get.

She is calling because she wants you to pick her up. Once in your car, she will refuse to be returned to her apartment. She wants you to take over being responsible for her.

She probably wants to blame you for her being there although she arranged that trip all by herself.

"...funny thing is that my aunt hasn't called my mom since she's been in there, she's just called me over and over. Why do you think that is?"

My knee jerk answer is that you're the one with a car and can drive and fetch things and do things for her. Your mom can't do any of those. Aunt can put on the waterworks to get you to do what she wants.