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My husband just lost his father to COVID eight months ago. We are now taking care of my husband's paternal grandmother full time, as she has nowhere else to go for now. She's 89 and declining more everyday.


On this forum, I was advised to immediately address power of attorney, while Gram is still somewhat mentally competent. I drew up forms for POA, MPOA, and living will, but when I presented them to hubby today, he said, "Thank you for doing that, but I really don't want to talk about this right now."


Avoidance of tough/sad subjects is one of his coping mechanisms, and I know his grief over his dad is still fresh but I know that this matter is urgent. Any advice on how to convey this urgency to him, while still regarding his feelings and boundaries?

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Please folks, read "5 at 55"--
Little book about the 5 documents EVERYONE needs to have at age 55.
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You said "I drew up forms for POA, MPOA, and living will" hopefully you meant you downloading them from your State web sight. For me this is not something I would do. I would want a lawyer to draw them up with his grandmother's input. Plus I feel they would be more likely acceptable by financial and medical institutions. DPOAs are usually witness and notarized in the lawyers office.

Grandmom has to be competent to assign a POA. The assigned person usually does not sign the POA. If GMa is competent take her to a lawyer. Because of her failing health, I would make her POAs immediate. That means when she signs, the POA is immediately in effect. I don't think you need proof of incompetence for immediate to use it. A question for a lawyer.

DPOA is a tool to help GMa when she is not capable to do for herself. It has to be done while she is competent enough to know what she is signing. It makes it so much easier to help her. Gives ur husband the ability to talk to the bank to her doctors. It has to be done now.
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Given that it is Grandma's decision, talk to her about it. If she isn't able to understand from anybody's explanation - yours, her doctor's, the mailman's come to that - what the forms are all about, she isn't competent to create the powers of attorney anyway.

It's really only the POA that's of practical importance. The MPOA and the living will are very helpful in *avoiding* tough-to-impossible ethical decisions later on, but those decisions, God willing, may not ever have to be made; and even if they do at that time she will be in the hands of people who will be acting ethically and guided by her next of kin.

Paying her bills will have to be done, though, and somebody needs to be able to act for her. Could you do it?
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If she becomes too mentally compromised to confer POA and then is unable to make important decisions (like to go into care or sell property to fund care, shield money from a mooching addict relative as you mentioned, etc.), somebody would have to petition the court for guardianship in order to have the right to make decisions for her. My understanding is that the process is both time-consuming and expensive. 10K is a ballpark figure I’ve seen mentioned on the forum.

I should add I have POA for my dad and feel like it is an absolute must for the caregiver living with a dependent elder. You don’t want responsibility without power.
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Maybe you can accept POA instead?
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Mabel, that's why all of you should do it. Young and old.

I have had these documents in place since my early 30s, I don't want a stranger making decisions or my family fighting over what should be done for me in the event I am injured and unable to speak for myself. .

This isn't about getting old, it's about making sure your wishes are carried out, because you could fall tonight, break your neck and be in a coma for 3 months. Why would you not make it as easy as possible on your loved ones?

PS: all of grandma's money should be used for her care and for her to pay her way, like paying her share of costs to live in your home. She could get a Medicaid penalty if she is giving money away, that is a big nono now.
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MJ1929 Jun 2022
^^^ This!

POAs are not for the elderly -- everyone with any assets or who gives a rat's behind about their medical care should have one.

My husband and I set up our first trust with wills and POAs (and plans for our children if we died before they were grown) back in our late 30s. We updated them again about five years ago when all the kids were over 18 and our assets had changed. I won't be getting offended about someone having POA, because that's old news.

The most important thing is not to foist POA on someone without their consent. All that paperwork is not supposed to be a secret.
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Maybe, she would be willing if it was a family thing, all of you have them and go get them signed together.
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MavisBacon Jun 2022
Yeah, his mom and sister might be willing to help. His brother and uncle will probably be the ones to fight it (brother in major denial about grandma's aging, and uncle is an addict who regularly hits her up for money)
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Thank you for the answers so far. Had a discussion with him about these things. He's coming around; his main concern is that he's dreading that conservation. He's afraid of possibly upsetting grandma, or that she wouldn't be willing. He also thinks it feels "mean" like he's robbing her of something.
She didn't initiate this whole POA thing, after all. I did; she's been declining mentally, and has suffered two brain bleeds since April, so it's definitely warranted.
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Beatty Jun 2022
"He's afraid of possibly upsetting grandma, or that she wouldn't be willing. He also thinks it feels "mean" like he's robbing her of something."

Husband must listen to different news to me. I see a lot of *fake news* inbedded his views! Here's other views;

Afraid of 'upsetting' Grandma? Come now..
Be courageous. Use honesty. Be polite but direct. Have an adult conversation.

POA 'robbing' someone? No.
It is *empowering" someone - to appoint a decision maker of their choice, for when they need one.

I'll also add End of Life wishes. DNR. Knowing & recording Grandma's wishes also empowers her.
It is not 'killing' someone to avoid CPR, ventilator or feeding tube. It can be choosing to avoid further trauma, avoid burdensome, painful & futile treatment. It can be allowing a more *natural* end.

I am very sorry for the loss of his Dad. This may be effecting him significantly.
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Only thing I can think of off the bat is to have your attorney or doctor explain to him what it means not to have these powers in place before she becomes unable to sign them. Not all is lost, of course, but it makes measurably easier with them. Perhaps he can deputize you to talk to her about it instead but I imagine that's already a no. Best wishes.
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My dad wouldn't talk about these forms for anything. Then he ended up in the hospital and a hospitalist marked his chart DNR, my dad was full code. So I spent endless hours fighting for him to be treated. It took 10 years off my life and my dad would have died if I wasn't as tenacious as I am, he was being allowed to die because of this scumbag called doctor decided he was to old, to sick or whatever, to put any effort in.

That's why you get those forms done. You both should have them, as well, especially after you have children, it's what responsible adults do.

It allows you to advocate for her when she can't. Because it is always to late to do them when you really need them.
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reallyfedup Jun 2022
Details and context matter, but in general a DNR is a good idea. Not for everyone though. We have to take realities into account. For example, CPR on anyone usually means breaking bones and it doesn't work as well as the t.v. shows would make you think. CPR on a fragile 89-year-old like my mother would have been disastrous. Would have turned her into mush for no real benefit.

I will say something about ageism among health practitioners. I think it exists and I think anyone caring for an elderly person has to be alert to it. My father's PCP is a gerontologist and understands this. I encourage people to have their elderly relative seeing a gerontologist over any other PCP.
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The Grandmother is the only one who can confer POA on your husband. If she gives DPOA there is nothing he has to sign until he begins to take on that duty; at that time he will present letters of her incompetency to act on her own behalf. Likely he will be ready then. There is really nothing HE has to sign. This is something his Grandmother has to do now.
Hopefully when the time comes for him to assume these duties he will be ready, willing and able.
You cannot make others accept what they are not willing to accept; reassure him that Grandmother has conferred POA onto him to use when it may be needed to PROTECT her, which is his duty as her grandson if he is able to do that duty.
Do know that the Grandmother can also give YOU these papers in an attorney office, too. You seem willing and perhaps you are more able as well?
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MavisBacon Jun 2022
Thank you for the input. I'm learning as I go. I'm new to the family (married in March), so I wasn't sure if she'd trust me enough to give me POA; she barely even remembers my name most of the time.
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