Is anyone else fed up that the law is on the elder's side and not your side?

Daughter of a (former) high level (on the top of the door frames!) hoarder here. There is **nothing** you can do as long as mom is competent, and there is a **very** low bar for competency. I reported mthr multiple times - fire dept, building code officers, adult protective, animal shelter... nothing works. People in the US have a right to live however they please up until they are incompetent, and then someone else gets a turn.

Because you cannot change her behavior, you have to change yours. What I did with mthr was to not visit her house at all. Nothing. I refused to be in that mess of a firetrap. You might say, but then Mommy won't get her groceries, or social activity... That's your point. If people won't go visit her mess, then she has to either give up the mess and move to an AL, or clean it up on her own. We know she does not want either, but you have leverage to pry her from her home once she runs out of groceries. You can bargain with her... I'll take you to the store IF we go to your doctor's and you have an exam first. Hopefully you have photos of the inside of the hoard, the kitchen, bath, her bedroom, the path to her chair, and the path from the chair to the door as evidence that her living conditions are unsafe. (Take those photos first, before drawing this line!). You'll also need POA if you don't have it already.

Depending on the Dr visit, you can now find the appropriate level of care in a home (NH, MC, or AL). Now when something happens that ends with her in the ER, you will have a list of places to call. And you will continue to use groceries or visits as barganing chips - but **don't go in the house** - protect yourself from it!

Elaine,

Your mother is severely mentally ill. The contact you do have with her is toxic. She groomed you to be the way you are with her. The anguish she puts you through is abundantly clear!

Her not answering the phone is manipulation to get you coming in person. As long as you are calling her from your house or cell phone, you will have a telephone record of attempting to reach out.

You can call the non-emergency number of the police to do a welfare check on her. Call enough times, and the police may be your allies in forcing something to happen.

Call APS and leave your name. Tell them you can no longer check on her because she is verbally abusive and her home is a death trap. And do not let her drag your son into this.

And the next time she lands in the hospital, tell the social worker or whoever is calling you that discharge to home is unsafe, that you cannot help her, that she is verbally abusive to you, and that her home is a death trap. Let the hospital deal with her. And perhaps, when she realizes that you are not coming to get her, she will answer her phone.

Yep, it's aggravating indeed.
Your mother has some huge cushions. You will bail her out of the messes she creates. She knows that.
The EMTs will bail her out by taking her to the ER for every little episode she has.
Nobody will 'do' anything about her living conditions so she knows she's safe and will be left alone.
The answer here is YOU.
Stop doing for her. Stop bailing her out. Stop rushing to the ER when the phone rings. Tell your son to call you when the crisis du jour is over with and to let you know the results. That you are WORKING and have no more leave time. Sorry mom.
Allow her to fall and hurt herself or get very sick and THAT is when she will be forced to vacate her hoarding den and get placed elsewhere.
As long as you keep picking up the pieces of the messes she makes, she's got a safe haven.
Sometimes we have to stop doing that and let the chips fall where they may. In this case, at 95 years old, I think it's the only way to get your stubborn mother the help she truly needs. By FORCING it.

Otherwise, step back and let mother live life on HER terms. Which may mean dying on her terms, too. She's a grown woman and has a right to make her own decisions, right or wrong, at least that's what everyone keeps telling you, right?

Sending you a giant hug and a prayer too. None of this is easy, that's for sure.

I promise to let everyone know what happens after I talk her doctor and an elder lawyer. We have elder lawyers right down the road from me. Don’t worry about me. I’m tough and I will get through this. I won’t do anything stupid, irrational, or impulsive!!!

Apparently, I don't understand the definition of "competent". My mother's doctor said she was competent and had the right to make her own decisions even if they were bad decisions. ??? My mother just passed away last month at 88. She had lived alone in a two-story house with a basement and a garage - all filled with stuff. When she was 85, she was in a car accident and spent a week in the hospital. I told her that I didn;t think it was safe for her to return to her house until it was cleaned and all of the obstacles were removed from the floors. It looked like a hoarder's house. She was furious with me and demanded that she go from the hospital to her house. She had to have home health care - visiting nurse, physical therapist. I spoke with the hospital social worker and told her that, in my opinion, the house was not safe for her in its condition. Still, she was released to her own home. A visiting nurse came to the house two days later. About two days after that visit, in investigator/inspector came to the house, unannounced, and my mother allowed him into the house. He told her it was a "hazard" and she had to clean it up. He returned in two weeks to find the first two rooms and a bathroom all cleaned (my brother and I and two nieces had cleaned it). The investigator told my mother those two rooms were fine, but that the other rooms were still hazards and had to be cleaned as well. He said he would return in two weeks. He never returned. He closed the case. The clean rooms were full of garbage and obstacles within a month. A year ago, she had to move in with my brother due to her medical conditions. After one month, she told she had made the biggest mistake of her life by moving out of her house. I tell you all of this because I learned the hard way that hoarding is definitely a mental illness. My mother was fiercely independent (mentally) and would scream at me if I suggested she do anything that involved change. My sadness is from thinking of lost opportunities for joy and happiness. Instead she chose to live in what appeared to be a miserable situation that she created. She had multiple falls, even at my brother's house, due to refusing to use a walker or cane and the fact that she was trashing her bedroom there and had obstacles all over the floor. I don't know the answer. I can only tell you what I observed. At some point, one must step away from the stress, all the rejected offers to help. Otherwise, you may become ill yourself. Is you step away, you may feel some "guilt" but you will probably experience relief as well. I wish the best for you.

It's her choice to live that way. You also have choices. I agree with what Surprise wrote and that is stop going inside her house. Stop enabling her to "live alone"; it's a farce because she cannot actually live alone without you.

Not only do you drop everything and come when summoned, you tolerate her insults. She treats you poorly because you allow her to. It sounds like she's mean to you and sweet as pie to outsiders. I encourage you to read the book Mean Mothers: Overcoming the Legacy of Hurt by Peg Streep.

Frustrating and downright abuse to us adult children! I keep fantasizing that I can sue my mom for 1) the money I spent last year to help her come home the first time around and 2) for the anguish and physical distress she's caused me the rest of the year.

My mom gets discharged today after round #2 in hospital/LTC. I'm nowhere near the scene this time around . Have no idea if utilities are on - or house hasn't been broken into this whole time she was laid up. The caregiver she hires (under the table) will be there to meet with her when she gets home.

The only thing I can say at this point - it's her problem, not mine. I gave up. (sort of). But I' steering clear of my mom as much as I can now. I've got to get back to my life anyway.

Elaine, You don't have to go no contact! Talking on the phone and getting e mail and snail mail are both contacts. But you don't want to be her grocery delivery person and you don't want to enter her house except to take photos on your phone. When I began talking with an attorney about my mthr, he had a hard time understanding how I would not want to be helping anymore. This is common among people who have good relationships with their parents. You need to stress that she is verbally abusing you and that she is like an alcoholic with her protective secrets and manipulating people's emotions. And like an alcoholic, there is no way to help her until she hits bottom. And that's what you want to do, to "allow her to live on her own," as the hospital says she has the right, but free of your interference, and if she fails, it's on her and not you. The question for the attorney is how do you legally accomplish that without liability for her failure?

Elaine, I think you've found a good balance. Go once a week and haul out the trash and mail the Bill's. If she abuses you, get up and walk out.

The hospital says she is competent to live alone, PT says she is mobile enough to ambulate independently.

If there is an "emergency" call 911 and the let hospital deal with it.

(((((Hugs))))))

The truth is, hoarding is a mental illness that is anxiety related. She CANNOT throw things away; we can't understand that b/c we don't suffer from the problem ourselves. But to her, all that 'stuff' including the trash is 'treasure'. It protects her and makes her feel safe. To remove her from that environment and to impose a different lifestyle and schedule on her would be horrible *in her eyes*. I can understand that. Perhaps the best thing to do is to see this from HER standpoint and to allow her to live/die on her terms. It hurts YOU more than it hurts HER, you know Elaine? If she winds up dying as a result of this lifestyle, she's okay with that. YOU aren't, because you know you can clean the mess up, etc. But to her, that's like a death anyway. It's too late........you can't fix this........so what you're doing is really the right thing and all you CAN do, given the situation.