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Elaine,

It has been such a difficult week for you. I don’t know if this will make sense, but even though I only stood on the internet sidelines, it was difficult for me too. It hurt to know you were hurting, but I also found it disheartening that your mom was allowed to fall through the cracks even though she had the best advocate in you. You’re my hero and I’m so very sorry for all that you had to endure up to now. I also recognize that this is a turning point for you, as you work to establish some boundaries and emotional distance from your mom while still trying to help. It can’t be easy but I want to say I support you moving forward and I am still very impressed with the love and determination you showed through it all.
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I’m sorry you are going through this three3meow.
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And I have the opposite problem. My family all live in a different state from me. I am 78, live alone in my own home by choice and with doctors approval. But family is belligerent, lies to me and about me, manipulates me, has ruined, in my opinion, my reputation and my self esteem, uses profanity, keeps other family members from communicating with me, all the things the adult protective laws are supposed to help seniors with. But because I live in a different state and live alone, no one will come to my aid. I do have medical problems but none that keep me from living independently and am basically healthy otherwise and quite alert with a MENSA level IQ and capable of taking care of myself with an occasional bit of assistance in making financial decisions for major issues. I am so frustrated because I cannot get my family off my back and no one seems to care. My friends and family in my town have either died or moved away so I am alone but basically I am a loner and enjoy my loner status (not the same as being lonely). I just don't know how to get these "beasts" to stay away from me, all phone calls and emails, and let me live the life the adult protective services is supposed to watch for if the the roles were reversed. That is, they only take care of those who are in situations where they need to be moved from abusive situations which I can understand. I am in an abusive situation but since I live independently, I'm on my own. I am really frustrated but can relate, albeit differently, to the situation you're talking about. I thought seniors were to be protected from violation. Just needed to vent.
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Countrymouse Feb 2020
If you are being harassed by certain individuals, there are steps you can take to make them stop. Have you taken legal advice?

You may not wish to go into more detail but it would be easier for us to understand your situation if you were able to explain who is doing what, exactly.
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I don’t know how to copy and post so I will rewrite what Barbbrooklyn said and let it go at that: I think you have found a good balance. Go once a week and haul out the trash and mail the bills. If she abuses you get up and walk out. If there is an emergency call 911 and let emergency personnel deal with it. This is exactly what I feel comfortable doing and that is all I can do. Nothing more, nothing less. If there comes a time when I can place her, I will do that. You have all shown me how to place her. Thank you everyone for your help. You all were standing behind me when I was going to place her, now please stand behind me for very LIMITED contact. I love you all. Thank you.
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MaryKathleen Feb 2020
many HUGS!!
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Elaine, the ONLY way you can tear the veil away from her charade of competence is by staying away and allowing her to fail.

Look, I've seen elder care play out both ways; my own mom was fairly cooperative and when my brothers and I said "no, we are not going to show up for your non-emergencies", she went into a nice Independent Living facility.

My MIL refused care; my DH, whom she accused of elder abuse walked away.

She ended up hospitalized with serious cardiac issues, had a stroke, refused rehab and starved herself to death. Not pleasant, but my husband stood firm and refused to take her abusive behavior.

Some people, Elaine, are their own worst enemies. They don't trust their own children to do what is right for them and end up in the care of the state. There isn't anything you can do to change who your mom is.

There is NOTHING that says that her demands (she will only allow you in her house) outweigh YOUR right to a peaceful and productive life.

I hope you can stay clear of her and gain some clarity. ((((Hugs)))))))
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Rovana, all I can say is the system is broken. I would have gladly gone no contact until she was safe and sound in a an assisted living. I could have visited her on MY terms and just been her daughter and nothing else. I could have held her hand and told her how much I loved her. But that’s not my reality right now. The system is broken. Broken into a million pieces.
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Rovana, thank you. You make a valid point. I did go to the hospital last Thursday and left work. She called 911 herself and I met them at her house and then to the hospital. She called 911 on Monday all by herself and I never went there. I called to tell the nurse to let mom know I wasn’t feeling well and wouldn’t be up there. Tuesday I didn’t go up at all. She went home by cab. I am learning not to run up there to the hospital. She called me when she got home safe and sound. She said nobody is coming in her house except me. She said no health care worker is coming in the house. She told them at discharge she agreed to home health care. Her own family doctor said she is lying!!! She cancels her doctors appointments all the time!!! They still sent her home by cab. The hospital calls today and the home health care worker said she is trying to confirm her appointment for tomorrow and she won’t answer the phone. DUH!!!! I am thinking DUH!!!!! All I said was she is declining care and I told everyone that at the hospital including her doctor. Her own doctor called up there to say she would decline care. Good bye.
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Just remember that the qualification for Community Medicaid and Nursing Home Medicaid are different.

And the waivers for AL are a different animal altogether.

In addition to speaking with an eldercare attorney on your mother's behalf, now might be a good time to start visiting g Assisted Living and Nursing Home facilities. Find out prices, get brochures. At some point, you will need to tell some discharge planner where you want your mom placed. From experience, I can tell you that it's better if you do these visits when you are not under the gun and trying to get mom placed quickly.
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Thank you Barbbrooklyn, yes I will be contacting an elder lawyer before she goes into an assisted living facility. She makes too much money bewteen her pension and social security. She makes $31,000 a year with both of them. I don’t think she qualifies for Medicaid. She makes too much money. She has been told this before when trying to get her heat and electric bill reduced. She has her house that is paid for and she also has 35,000 in her checking account right now.
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Elaine, the thing I think you should think about now is how to get into "planful" mode and not "reactive" mode.

I especially think that you need to see an eldercare attorney (it's a legitimate use of MOM'S money) to understand better how AL, when mom needs it will be paid for. You dont sign over the house. Mom can apply for Medicaid and still own the house. I think that AL in NYS can be paid for through a Medicaid waiver program, but there may be a waiting list. Please contact the eldercare lawyer and make an appointment so you get a better understanding of how this will work.

((((Hugs))))
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I just want to reiterate that I was so hopeful, I told all the doctors and social workers everything and I came clean about her hoarding because of all of you. I meant it when I said you all picked me up and carried me through this. If everything had gone as planned we would have found her AL to go to, I would have contacted an elder lawyer about signing over the house to the AL and I would just go there and visit her and live happily ever after. But that’s not my reality now. So that is why I have chosen limited contact. But without all of you and all of your input and carrying me high since last Thursday, I would probably have lost my mind or something. But this forum helps so many people and I am forever grateful for it!! Thank you to everyone!!!
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Elaine, I think you've found a good balance. Go once a week and haul out the trash and mail the Bill's. If she abuses you, get up and walk out.

The hospital says she is competent to live alone, PT says she is mobile enough to ambulate independently.

If there is an "emergency" call 911 and the let hospital deal with it.

(((((Hugs))))))
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elaine1962 Feb 2020
Thank you for your support Barbbrooklyn!!
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BBS2019, on the outside of the house it has been fixed up. The outside is fine and in September got a new roof and new garage door. People on the outside would think her house looks fine. It’s the inside that is a mess and won’t let anyone in. The outside of the house is fine.
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Elaine, you say (or sigh) "That’s 10 more years of not bathing, not changing clothes, and hoarding more stuff in the house. Is that acceptable??"

Mm. You put your finger on it right there. Yes. The law says it is acceptable. Your mission is to work on accepting it.

Taking one bit at random, more or less - you say your mother will only let you in the house, no one else. But if you didn't go in, if you weren't an option for Person She Will Allow Inside The House, just say... She'd have to let somebody else in if she needed to, wouldn't she? And if she never needed to... then what's the problem?

Let your imagination roam free in the ideal world for a moment: where would your mother be living, what would be going on in her life?
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elaine1962 Feb 2020
Countrymouse, I couldn’t live with myself if I didn’t go in and check on her. I would always be worrying and wondering and would threaten my own mental health. She’ll let me bathe her and wash her hair in May when my son comes home fromNYC to visit memorial weekend. Let me just say she has had mental illness all her life. She never was one to bathe every day or wash her hair. Growing up she took sponge baths and never washed her hair very regularly. But I didn’t know any better when I was little. I learned as a teenager to shower every day. She’s mentally ill. This behavior isn’t really anything new. The hoarding isn’t new either. She started that in 1998. But things are slowing down on her fast. She can’t sponge bathe herself or wash her hair by herself. So that’s why I do it. But it’s not very often. And as someone on here pointed out, you can’t make someone shower in a nursing home and she refused a bath and wash her hair when she was in the hospital. None of this is easy. I’m doing the best I can. She’s mentally ill. Going no contact is not an option for me today or ever!! I respect other people that do. I don’t blame them and I envy them. I certainly don’t judge anyone. I have total respect for people that go no contact and I do understand it. But me personally, I can’t do it. It would cause me too much anguish and threaten my mental health. I am going VERY LIMITED CONTACT and I am proud of myself I didn’t go to the hospital or run and bring her home. Baby steps. I’m doing everything baby steps. I do appreciate your comment and thoughts. Thank you.
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Disgustedtoo, you mentioned about the insurance company giving my mother money for her roof and her garage door. Yup, that was done this past fall in September so that was only 5 months ago. But she has needed a new roof and garage door for YEARS!!! She bullshitted the insurance company and said it happened in a wind storm a few months back. It was a lie. She just needed a new roof and garage because the house is old. Built in 1960. She also got money for a picture window and said it happened in some storm. That was a lie too!! The window had been cracked for YEARS. She is very conniving and smart. You can’t underestimate everything she knows and can do!!
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Blk2842, I agree with you up to a point. I agree they should live any way they want as long as they are competent but my Mother could live to be 105. That’s 10 more years. That’s 10 more years of not bathing, not changing clothes, and hoarding more stuff in the house. Is that acceptable??
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rovana Feb 2020
As far as the law goes, it is acceptable.  I know you want a better life for her, but keep in mind that mental illness is VERY difficult for family and in many ways you will survive only if you accept your limitations here and set firm boundaries. Reading you original post, you said that your son called you and said Grandma needed help?  What is the point of all that? If Grandma can use her phone, she calls the paramedics for medical help, not your son or you.   And if she called you, why not tell her to call 911? and get help from a source that could provide it?    I'm sympathetic but frankly with a mother like yours, I would refuse to play her games or enable and I would stay very far away.  I'd spend time and energy on people who would be grateful for the help I offered.  Your mother sounds like a fraudster.
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Disgustedtoo, I agree with everything that you said!!! I called APS a year ago anonymously and that was the first question out of her mouth. “Are you abusing your Mother?” What a stupid question. They all must be trained to ask that as there first question. Her primary doctor called APS on Monday and they denied the case because she was in the hospital. She said the hospital has to deal with this. Not APS. Stupid, broken system we have in New York State.
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Thank you so much everyone for all of your comments and advice!!! I appreciate everyone’s answers!!! I really do!! I haven’t been to work since last Wednesday because I have been trying to convince doctors, social workers, and APS not to dischar my mother home because of self neglect, hoarding and that it would be an unsafe discharge. They did a competency test at the hospital which she passed and physical therapy test she passed. I refused to go to the hospital Monday when she was sent by ambulance for the 2nd time. I refused to pick her up when they discharged her on Tuesday. They got a cab for her and she is now home. I’m done fighting the system. Nothing more I can do. I will do limited contact with my mother but I cannot go no contact. I couldn’t live with myself if I went no contact. I can’t let a 95 1/2 year old person live in her home with no outside contact from anybody. She only lets me in the house. She gets her own groceries with call a bus, she write the bills once a month, I mail them. She gets the trash together and I take it to the curb once a week. Everyone made it very clear to me that she can live in her hoarded house and not bathe, and Doctors, APS, Social workers, occupational doctors, physical therapy doctors are not going to intervene because she is COMPETENT and that is the LAW. I’m done fighting this horrible system we have placed in New York State. I’m going back to work because these days that I have been home fighting a system that is broken is hurting me mentally MORE than my mother hurts me. I am backing off with my mother, and walking out the door when she gets verbally abusive. There is nothing more to do until she falls or has a stroke. Then something can be done. Unfortunately, it’s the law. But I do appreciate everyone’s comments and responses!!!
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My mother told me, before she had any memory problems, that just existing was not living and that she would rather die than just exist. After we talked about it, I definitely saw her point, and agreed with her. She lived at home until she was 96 when he granddaughter used APS to get guardianship by forcingher into a mental evaluation where she was drugged, then taken to court in "crappy clothes." She cried every time I visited her and wanted to know what she had done wrong. She lived only 3 months after being forced into a facility (stopped eating).

I pity all the people who think "safety" is the most important thing for their "loved ones." Hopefully they will be treated better than that when they have the misfortune to get old.
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Are you sure she us competent? Has she had a competency evaluation? Is it possible to have her evaluated by a geriatric psychiatrist? I would call APS and report the conditions of her home as well as her neglect of self care. In some state's the self neglect if it is hazardous to the person can result in an involuntary commitment to a psychiatric facility. I would also consult with an elder attorney to assist you with any possible legal interventions.
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elaine1962;

You've touched a very sore subject! Right up there with everyone gets a trophy/medal...although situations like this are dangerous, not just enabling.

Unfortunately unless/until she is deemed incompetent, your hands are tied. Even if you have POA, it doesn't give you any more power over her situation. People misrepresent/misinterpret what this does for you. It only allows, in given situations, you the power to sign documents, make some financial and/or medical decisions for a person, if/when the conditions stipulated in the document take place. Even guardianship is going to be difficult or impossible to get since everyone seems to think your mother is competent. Bad decisions, poor hygiene deplorable living conditions are not deciding factors for competency. Driving rules are also frustrating, with some states like MA stipulating one must "self report" if Dxed with dementia! How ridiculous is THAT??

FWIW - EVEN with dementia people are afforded their "rights." See next paragraph re EC atty, and staff at her MC facility told me they can't force anyone to do anything - they do work on coaxing those who refuse meds, medical treatment, toileting, showers, etc, to get their compliance. I have seen them doing this! So, understand that in your situation it is even worse. There really isn't anything legally that can be done to stop your mother's self-destructive behaviors or change her living conditions.

I DO understand your concerns, both for your mother AND for fear of being investigated or labeled as being abusive or neglectful of her. In our case, mom was in early stages of dementia. Our attempts to intervene were unsuccessful. Despite moving to AL being in her plans before dementia, she adamantly refused help or to move. The EC attorney told us we could NOT force her to move, despite having dementia!!! So, don't feel like you have been singled out by everyone refusing to listen/help. He suggested guardianship, but the facility we had chosen said no, they won't do "committals", so we had to get "creative" to make the move. I also was concerned about how social services, et al would view me/us if we DIDN'T intervene and something happened, whether it be serious illness/injury or death (slightly different as we were aware of the dementia.) We had cameras in a few places to monitor and tried bringing in aides to check on her, but after a short while she refused to let them in (it was only 1 hour/day, the minimum.)

"Won’t I be the one charged with abandonment if I call APS?"
Document everything and send it certified return receipt. I don't see how APS could consider this approach, given she is deemed competent, refuses help and doesn't live with you. You are making contact out of concern, not because you are moving out and leaving her alone.

"I called APS anonymously before and they asked me if I was abusing my mother."
What a stupid person that was. WHO would call APS if they WERE abusing anyone??? That person needs to consider a career change (or a brain transplant.)

RE EMTs: "Can you get them to be a witness for you by giving a report of her when they arrived at her home?"
I would think ANYTHING the EMTs or doctors know/have to say would be considered information they can't divulge to you under the HIPPA laws, esp since they deem her competent. I doubt you will get anything in writing from any of them or the SWs.

"What are you going to do if you fall down the stairs?"
When I asked my mother (again, she had/has dementia) what she would do if she fell and couldn't get up. Her response was that she doesn't go down the stairs (finished basement in condo.) This was NOT a true statement, since one of the cameras we had monitored the basement area and she was seen on it several times! But, I only replied I didn't say anything about the stairs, to which she replied "I'll get help." Sure mom.

A few suggestions to follow...
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disgustedtoo Feb 2020
Having concerns, but having your hands tied, document everything you can and send it to APS and the EC atty, certified return receipt, as a CYA method. She refuses help. She refuses to move. She refused to clean up. She lives in dangerous conditions. She refuses to answer your calls. She won't allow anyone else to come in. Mention the hoarding and gambling as well as the lack of hygiene, any medical conditions you are aware of, EVERYTHING you can think of/wrote about here! Tell them how EVERYONE, doctors, SWs, etc, tell you that she is competent and they/you can't do anything. Don't expect any changes, but this documents that you are aware of it and that your hands are tied. This is all to protect yourself legally.

Taking it another step - I can't find the post, but I thought you said you are the only one she allows in the house. Would it be possible to get in there, with your son, and while distracting her have him install at least one camera in a location she might not notice, but would frequently go to, such as the kitchen? This would allow you to monitor activity. If she goes there every day, and suddenly doesn't, you could request a welfare check from the PD (I wouldn't mention the camera to the PD, just say she isn't answering your calls. I had to do that once for mom, because she managed to turn the ringer off the phone and I couldn't get her to answer for 2 days! They went and the officer found the ringer off - she was smart enough to push the button with my name on it to call me, then ask me to call back to confirm the ringer was on! Mom: Oh that daughter of mine...)

I didn't check the details, but did find this:

"Arlo Go Mobile Security Camera is the ideal security monitoring solution when traveling or in areas with limited or no WiFi access. Arlo Go works anywhere by supporting 3G/4G LTE wireless connections."

To save money (initially anyway) I switched mom's phone to Fios and added internet/WiFi, which also allowed us internet access when we were there. The cameras YB installed worked with the Wifi and it was this brand. If she has no internet/WiFi, this camera or a similar one might work. Their app works with my phone and YBs (mine in Android, his is apple.)

IF you can get it in and hidden where she won't notice it, it will be a great help and take some concern off your shoulders, but also keep you out to avoid the verbal abuse and deplorable conditions. Perhaps if/when you can take her for a doc appt in the nicer weather have son do the install, if there's no way to get in now. It was a great help for us as it was over an hour drive for YB (and he is still working), more like 1.5 hour for me. We used one outside and another inside the door to monitor who went in/out and it also could see her kitchen table, and another in the basement.) The first 2 were high enough she couldn't reach or really notice them, the basement one had to be moved later. She picked it up once, and we got the panoramic view of the basement room, ceiling, her face close up, etc, as she didn't recognize what it was and was "checking" it out!

Addition: If/when you can get her to the doc for exam, the "mini" test they do likely won't be enough to determine her competence. I suspect she really isn't going to be Dxed with this - not at this time. Poor judgement can be part of dementia, however it might just be poor judgement. There are other more important signs of dementia that don't seem to be apparent in your mother's case. The fact that she got insurance to do her roof and garage door are actually pretty impressive! Granted, that was a while ago, but the issues you have concerns about didn't show up overnight, so it is likely she has had these issues for a long time!
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Hoarding is deemed a mental illness. I'm surprised that she is not housed in a mental facility. It is imperative that something be done because her house is a fire hazard.
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I could read all three pages of answers, so maybe someone else has mentioned this. Have you taken a video on your phone of her living conditions to show the authorities? I sort of like the fire marshal, although they probably can't help. Sometimes, a picture is worth a thousand words.

I do think it is time to see an elder attorney to see what you need to do to be off the hook when something happens to her. Also, document everything. Document every person you talked to and the time and date. Maybe ask for written documentation from them. Just protect yourself.
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Roxyann Feb 2020
I am sorry people seem to think I am off topic. Having gone thru this past year I have learned a ton of current info. FYI: I do not have a TV. Do not watch it. Have a g-child & several friends with OCD & have a medical background. I do NOT believe everything I am told. Please do the research & think before you accept whatever you are told. This is ON topic. If you look at what people have said about the elderly issue & I haven't added my own research, then you KNOW something really stinks in health care. Thanks for the criticism tho. Maybe I can soften the comments so they are more politically correct. But the truth stands. Thanks for the opportunity....
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Hoarding is a mental illness. She will not be able to let go of her stuff by herself but it will not be wise to force her. Not caring for herself could be a sign of depression. Maybe if you can get her to a psychiatrist they can help her. But be prepared that that won’t solve things. First of all I recommend that you protect yourself physically, mentally and financially. I am not connected to my mother financially. That’s important because we cannot afford to pay for her care. You will, unfortunately, have to do your best to safeguard yourself, help where you can, and stand back and watch her self destruct. Don’t enable. Remind her that one day she will have to face the consequences. Try to help her realize that eventually she will lose her choices if she waits until she is seriously hurt or ill. By then time will not allow her to choose where she will live and decide the things that she wants to bring with her. If she has pets her keeping them will no longer be her decision.
This is how it went with my Mom she too refused help except from me. I believe it was her way of trying to keep control of her life but she instead left control to the system when it finally stepped in.
I have been there, in an ER room in tears begging for help with my hemiplegic 85yr old hoarding mother who insisted on living her life her way and refused to move to an ALF or SNF. They looked at me like I had to handle it myself. I am disabled myself. I ended up calling APS myself to get something on record that I was not neglecting her, I was unable to care for her (the lifting alone was destroying my back), and that she needed help. They also told me that she needed to become seriously hurt or ill before they could do something. About a year before she had broken her collarbone and recovered in a Rehab Facility and then was sent home when she refused to move to their ALF where she could have kept her cats. In another state she again ended up in different Rehab Facility and then a SNF in a private home. She left that facility when she could no longer pay. Medicaid was a mess at the time so she had not received it yet even though she was qualified.
I got her a call button for whenever she fell and couldn’t get up that would contact EMT’s. Finally after several calls to rescue her and she couldn’t pay the bills APS stepped in during an ER visit. She now had Medicaid and with my help we found an ALF that had a bed. She is now in a SNF again with my help to move her. I researched ahead of time what facilities were better and was then able to find a good facility with a bed (covered by Medicaid). Most facilities only have a few. She can no longer leave as she has no one to assist her. She wants to but she is unable to even get to the bathroom without help. She is well cared for and has a great staff but she just won’t accept that her health does not allow her the freedom she wants. Because she would not move when we could plan it she lost her cats that she misses terribly and could not choose what came with her. I am blamed for this and she tries to use that guilt to move me help make her life better.
This is a tough road and it’s hard not to get sucked in by it My family protected me and helped balance me. I hope you have the support you need. Best wishes.
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Um---you call Adult Protective Services ! Then comes a respite visit to a assisted living facility where they will spoil her so much that she will not want to leave-- feed her, help her bathe regularly... entertainment. Daily fun stuff ! let her bring a "few" things--- assure her stuff will still be there at home while you go there and do a clean sweep. Tossing much, keeping real keepsakes. You can be pals or you can do what needs to be done--- eventually she will forget what she left behind and you can sell the place for her to finance her ALF costs... BE that Wise grandchild ! Do what HAS to be done-- get POA-ship and tell the rest of the family you will not tolerate any more co-dependency and enabling -- period ! Do not listen to hospital workers--they have their hands full and are ever so apathetic because of it.... Good luck. God bless.
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Psyclinz Feb 2020
This sounds like such a wonderful solution!
It worked kind of like this for my MIL.

It DID NOT WORK for my mother who might just be Elaine1962's mother's twin. She downright refused to budge when the respite option came - yes, spoil her, feed her nice food, tea/coffee/cake and entertainment, sounds so great. But my mother (with dementia diagnosis), and Elaine's mother are not rational, yes competent in the eyes of the law (even with dementia), but not rational.

DugganB - if what you wrote was your experience, you are very very lucky! Being 'wise', POA, and giving notice that codependency would not be tolerated, etc etc DID NOT HELP me or my mother.

Elaine, I hope DugganB's story can be yours and your mother's too. Wishing you all the best, stay strong, breathe, breathe, breathe...
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IMO a person's happiness is more important than how they are seen to be living. Being forced into doing something a person doesn't want to do might make "you" happier, but you are not the other person. And happy is always in the eye of the beholder. Really!
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anonymous1010889 Feb 2020
I have always tried to defend my father’s right to live his last days the way he chooses so I think I understand what you’re saying. What Elaine has described, however, is a mother with gambling problems, living in extremely unsafe conditions, refusing to care for herself, and refusing assistance to improve her situation. These kinds of behaviors are often secondary to some form of mental illness and require intervention. This is not about making the OP happy, but about bringing her the peace of mind of knowing her mother is safe and receiving the treatment she needs.
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Same goes here in Texas! Son in Laws mother is also a hoarder, is on dialysis, works part time for a school district, drives...yet is totally ill, filthy, incompetent, and expects her kids to take care of and pay for repairs to her slum house, repair her wreck of a car, run her errands and take her to dialysis...its all about her...already! Social Worker was called to her house and she determined that a cleaning crew could help but that there is nothing that they could do to change her situation. I told my daughter...Do Not let her move in your house! I would never put my kids through what she’s trying to do.
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Spouse's 95 year old grandmother lived like that too. She outlived her kids. 45 years worth of junk accumulated, only a path from the front door to her recliner, and a path to the kitchen. The denouement came when she passed out due to uncontrolled diabetes, left something on the stove and set her apartment on fire. The firefighters had to break down the door. She went to the hospital, then to nursing home. Landlord refused to have her back since she nearly burnt down the building which was home to many other tenants.

She would not have to gone down that way: had multiple chances to let grandkids (!) do the clean out and get things set up for safer living, but no, she didn't want that. She liked her junk. Did not like the nursing home so much though.
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Where I live, the Municipal Code (Code Enforcement Division) has official charge of hoarding situations. In my case (it was my neighbor), it took more than a year of relentless pressure on the authorities to finally do anything. But, once that finally happened, other agencies (health dept., social workers) got involved. I know it's a convoluted way to approach your situation, Elaine, but it's worth thinking about maybe?
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Elder law attorney will focus on strictly complying with the law--of course, that's their job. But as you read this forum, you'll find many people writing of their experiences taking care of practical matters in ways that may or may not strictly comply with the law. Do what works! Many people have written about psychiatric drugs for mentally ill, aggressive, paranoid elderly. Many people have also written about giving their parent a sedative and taking them to a secure facility in medical transport--for these people, it was the last straw and the only thing that worked. Secure memory care operates in a sort of gray area of the law anyway--they are not legally allowed to hold someone against their will, but if that person can't figure out the steps to take to get out, then they are stuck there against their will.
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elaine1962 Feb 2020
You are right!!! She can be an evil genius!!! She would figure out a way to get out of ANY facility if she can’t be held again her will!!!
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