Is it normal she's so negative?

Do NOT cancel your trip. This is what your mom wants. Just like my mom, they have gotten what they want from us for many years. Enough is Enough!

I cannot remember what I told months ago about how and when I was able to walk away from my mom. Physically have stepped away, but I still check on her unbeknownst to her--which is best. I am still making sure that she is well cared for from a distance. The way I was finally able to step back is when I talked to her in March and told her my feelings. I had been going to a counselor--just started and she suggested that I tell my mom my feelings. When I did and told her that she hurt my feelings when I come or she is always saying negative things that are directed at me.... My mom said, "Do not turn this on me". She told me that if someone hurt her feelings she just wouldn't come around them. I tried several times during our conversation to get her to take just a smidgen of responsibility for her actions. She would not. But this goes back many many years. She has never taken responsibility, she always plays the victim. She manipulates. She told me to stop coming. I asked her if that is what she wanted and she said, "Stop coming".. I took that as permission.--being that "child" I guess in some way I still needed her to tell me what to do. This time she told me what I needed to hear. As each day, week and then months went by, I realized how much better I was feeling. After talking to my aunt, I realized I should have done this a long time ago. I was too scared of what the consequences may be.--Can't even start to tell you what I even think they could have been. Now I realize the best consequence is not talking to her. If I didn't do everything she thought I should do, then life was h*ll. If I did what she wanted she still made it h*ll. It was very hard at first, but now I am at peace with it. After about two weeks she told my aunt that I had deserted her. That I had stopped calling and what kind of daughter does that. she never would admit to her that she told me not to come. Once again, she manipulates the people around her. That very week my mom closed the account that I was writing her rent out of. YES! My mom took charge and closed her account and moved her own money. She called the attorney that week too and asked to revoke my POA but he didn't do it. He realizes she still needs that just in case. It only took her one week to do all this. That really gave me more gumption not to talk to her. She told my aunt I would take her money. Look--we have been through this for 5 years. I have had plenty of opportunity to take it. It took me two years to start paying myself back and paying myself for care giving. She is so unappreciative.--that hit me after that week. It has now been 7 months. I do worry about the holidays coming up. I worry if there were a death in the family and we had to be in the same place. I am not ready for that yet. I probably would avoid these situations not to be around her right now. I am still a work in progress If my mom is able to write out her rent and pay her own bills, she was very capable of this before and manipulated me to do everything for her and then complain about it. Think about that for a minute. That is tough to swallow sometimes, but I am really trying not to dwell on it. If I could go back, then that summer I gave up my family and moved in with my mom, I would go back and send her to the hospital like the doctors wanted to do. But, no, I did what she wanted. Look where it got me. No where with her. Just another manipulation by the narcissistic mother I grew up with. Dont read this wrong, I am not bitter, I am not dwelling, I am just stating the facts which help me move forward.

Do what is best for you. There are other people out there to help. I didn't see it either, I thought it was only up to me. There are delivery services for food and groceries and babalou is right, 911 is right around the corner. I have come along way to say that and mean it. Take our advice, take care of yourself.

Why would you have to cancel your trip? If your mom is really dreadfully ill, 911 ahould be called and she should be in hospital. If she is mildly ill, she can call a local restaurant for chicken soup to be delivered. Why would you need to be on hand?

I am happy about your good news. I think some medications are truly amazing and can make such a powerful difference. I am pleased that you have a doctor who is helping you!

My mom does drive and is pretty competent when she needs to be. I need to back off and give up any wishful thinking. Literally change what I have been doing my whole life. I need to stop trying to be the perfect little girl. I am doing lots of work with the scared inner child. I am so happy with my counselor. Thank you for responding and caring.

njny1952,

"The only time she considers me is when I do something wonderful for her or she feels great and notices that I am fabulous to her."

Classic narcissistic approach to life.

"I wish I could relax and enjoy her,"

A good wish, but not likely with a narcissist. Case in point my MIL.

My mom constantly ran down my dad after the divorce. My dad did not run her down and did not like me complaining to others about her. My mom constantly predicted that my dad would one day let me down. That has never been the case.

Here's an idea about if she gets sick or pretends to get sick while you are gone. Tell her to dial 911 for medical help.

I assume that living at independent living must mean she can drive herself and still has a car. She could drive to an urgent care unless her doctor works people in on short notice. If she no longer drives maybe the place where she is living has some transportation provided, for a cost of course, that could take her back and forth.

My MIL played sick one time. She had a trip in the ambulance. The trip was so bad, she never did that again.

My good news for today is that I met with my doctor who added another drug to help with my bipolar depression which is having a good impact. After listening to me and questioning me, she decided to double the dose for what she started me on she called a baby dose. I see her in four weeks. I look forward to see what this higher dose does for me.

Take care, keep up the good fight, don't forget to romance your husband, but don't over do it, and enjoy ya'lls trip.

Hi Heidi--it is a lifelong process, or sentence, whichever applies! That was disgusting, what your mother did to your dad. My mother just bemoaned her fate for having married my father. "I almost broke it off, but he had hurt his foot and I felt sorry for him". Well, mom, you had lots of time before the wedding to call it off. She bad mouths him often and tonight I am just all fired up, sick to death, of her complaining and expecting me to be perfect. Today she got sick but then realized it was because I had mentioned that I was getting forgetful and then she realized that maybe she couldn't count on me to be so reliable. She dwelt on that for most of the day, felt sick, and then told me she got sick because I said that and she felt like she couldn't count on me and maybe couldn't get her dog because she should go into a home, and on and on. One catastrophe leading into another. I guess it is not her fault. She must be mentally ill. KI was told she was, but she sure acts normal much of the time. every word I say is measured. I have to say things exactly right or I cause some emotional or physical response. I went to the counselor today, and I am just so frustrated that I have put up with her stuff for so long. If she is physically ill, I will have to do what is needed, but her emotional health is just beyond me. And it appears they are completely connected. If I say something to upset her she has a physical response. I am so greatly hoping that I can visit my friend who is four hours away overnight, from Monday to Tuesday, but then she could put on the sick act, and I think she thinks she really is sick--who knows, maybe she is but for the most part she sure acts healthy. I will disappoint my friend if I do not go, plus we will still have to pay for the rooms. I just can hardly stand this anymore. She is a BURDEN! I hate to say this! And it could be so different if she could just not only think of herself. The only time she considers me is when I do something wonderful for her or she feels great and notices that I am fabulous to her. Sorry, this is my letting loose. I have to figure out how I am going to lead the rest of my life. Se is 88 and I expect she will be around another 5-10 years. I wish I could relax and enjoy her, but I haven't been relaxed in years--like decades. I am 63 and I need to take care fo myslf and my family! Grrrrrrr..... Jeweltone--thanks for starting this discussion. I might soon start one of my own! Heidi--hang in there, sister!

"I am less emotionally attached to my mother but still feel responsible to some degree for her emotional well being."
Nijny, that describes me a lot. It's nice that your mom still has interest in getting a dog -- something for her to look forward to -- but it's not always realistic. If it's a young dog you have the training and energy, and it needs to go outside, and you need to clean up after it and take it to the vet. It sounds like she's not realistic about it.
That's why I've fought my mom having a dog. She won't take it out regularly if she has one, to the vet, or clean up after it in the yard of her apartment and no one wants a neighbor whose dog poops all over the yard. Years ago when she had one and was more mobile, she'd visit me and while I was at work that dog would pee and poop on my bathroom rug because she couldn't be bothered to take it out. And that was then. And I was the bad guy for being annoying about coming home and finding pee and poop on the bathroom floor!
I had a lot of that only-child stuff, too. My mom was unstable, but when I was five or six I just saw mom crying or having some kind of meltdown, and then she'd insult and mock my father behind his back (even spitting in his food and mixing boogers into his meal -- she was proud of that, too, which is sick), and I honestly am not sure he was such a bad guy.
He was sort of on the quiet side -- though he would perk up in certain social situations or about certain topics like history or geography -- and I took after him in a lot of ways and took verbal abuse and insults from her as a result. (Any time I didn't agree with her or match her mood, I was nasty like he was, according to her.)
It's a lifelong learning process, isn't it!

Hi--I am so glad this discussion is resuming! Jewel tone! Great to hear your update except for the incredibly sad news. I am not detached from my mother yet like you are. I am working on it, but she lives independently and has no other support person. I finally dismissed the caregiver person I had cleaning for her because I had hoped they would form a relationship and when I went out of town, the caregiver could come and spend time with my mother. But ... NO. My mother does not want this type of "intrusion." So I know that is her choice and I should do my own thing but it is still very difficult for me. I am grateful that I do not call or see her as often but I am still not in the clear. Not even close.

Heidi--my mother could compete with the best for drama, but sometimes she is kind and considerate which makes the whole thing more complex. Babalou and cmagnum--your ideas and comments are so helpful. I need to say less and WORRY LESS. I honestly think she trained me (or it is genetic) TO WORRY LIKE NOBODY'S BUSINESS. I am less emotionally attached to my mother but still feel responsible to some degree for her emotional well being. Not like i used to but I know if something goes wrong and she doesn't get her dog (can you believe I am still writing about dogs?) it will impact my visit with a friend and then my daughter who is flying in to see me. Why do I put her needs front and foremost? Why do I not put my needs first much of the time? Great training, I guess. Only child, stay-in-the-background but loving father, unbalanced mother. I was always the problem solver and peace maker. It was up to me to make sure mother was okay so much of the time. I guess this was both bad and good. I have been a successful educator and, believe it or not, counselor, because I care so much about the well being of others. Just not myself! Brother--oh well, one day at a time. My daughter is a worrier (no surprise), and we both committed to STOP! Easier said than done, but I will not ever give up the good fight. I am in this counseling for the long haul and feel like you--my support group-- are always there when times are tough. I hope I can be there for you. Maybe we need to start a mother-drama discussion. We could share stories for both humor and to help each other feel not so alone.

P.S. I cannot see the screen with all the prior posts and I cannot get access to a "like" or "hug" link. What am I doing wrong? It says something about a reader view being available but I don't know how to get to the way it used to be. I emailed agingcare.com and they are trying to help me. but maybe you know?

Love you all!

Babalou has a point. So does Cmagnum.
I have a friend whose mother always has that kind of drama. As soon as she plans a couple days out of town, mom calls her and starts the "oh, I'm going to die" routine. This friend's mother lives with her son, too, so it's not like she's alone even.
My mom pulls stuff like that, too. My plans, my schedule mean nothing, but her whims mean everything.
Right now it's going into guardianship stuff, with a hearing Wednesday, and she all of a sudden is throwing out tons of flattery to my husband (usually she calls him a greedy thief), and she's saying she wants me to be her guardian (I don't really want it after more than a decade of drama). She didn't even ask me what I wanted, or how we could do this, or how I feel. Just an order.
I suspect she thinks I'll agree to be her guardian and then she can order me around and do as she will. She's going to be really mad in court!

Hello Friends!!! I have had a lot going on lately and my mind is full. I had a few minutes to check in. There are so many new stories I didn't get a chance to read them all. I am so glad this thread is still going even though I have made some drastic changes with my mom. The relief I feel from it is greater than I can ever put into words. All of you were right, if I could get past the initial NO, then it would all be okay--and it is!

Update: As you know, I have stopped contact with my personality disordered mother. She sucked all the juice right out of me. Slowly I am juicing back up and getting myself back. My family is enjoying having "me" back around. I called the AL the other day to do my regular check in on my mom--I only talk to the director. My mom finally did what we all discussed on here.--she moved ALL her money! HA! I find it funny now. Before that worried me, but now I realize she can pay her own way and doesn't need me to do it all for her. She was using me and manipulating me all along. I knew this, but it is hard to admit it sometimes. Especially when it has been going on for 40+ years. I am now FREE from it. No more negative nancy, no more pity party, no more energy sucking/life sucking vampire!! It is so liberating. I still have those guilty feelings wondering if I am doing the right thing, then I remember for a split second how she always made me feel. I am moving forward everyday. One thing is for certain, she is well cared for, she has the money to pay for a nice place, she has great meals and party planners to keep her busy--that is when she will get out of bed and put her negative self out there.

Another tragedy has struck though that we are dealing with. A VERY close friend of my 17 year old son was in a tragic car wreck three weeks ago and has been on life support. He is now coming out of a coma and is in a minimally conscience state. It is so sad. I have been helping with benefits for the family and watching my son and his friends grieve over their friend. Even though he made it through he 10% chance of living, he still has a long road to recovery. He is still non verbal. He was on his way to a school dance and was 2 minutes from his dates house when wet roads took control of his vehicle. He hit a tree and has severe brain injury. My mom thinks her life is bad, but let me tell you, I have seen bad now.

Hope all is doing well. I think of you often and hope you find peace in all your tribulations. When you say your prayers, please add my son's friend to your list.

I asked my wife about this and her repsonse was, yet don't make it into a battle, but say as little as possible. She would not mention hubby for that would open the door to her attacking with "oh my, you are choosing your husband over me" and that would be a war.

Babalou is right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BTW, I typed this this time from my desktop keyboard.

One song put it, not one's own

Dictating a post via my smartphone leaves somethings out. :(

The thing is, try not to make it into a battle. The fact that something is ready for delivery on a certain day in no way means in needs to be picked up that day. It can be picked up that day or any day thereafter. You and your husband's plans are already set. No need to explain anything.

Babalou's ideas are great!!!

That is a very practical way I'm saying damn the torpedoes and actually take no prisoners.

Just say it the way she to put it. Please do not defend it or explain it just state it as a fact. In other words as one's own put it no need to discuss much.

Keep up the good fight! You're making progress! I am very proud of you!

"oh, the dog will be available sfter Novemer xx? That's great, we can pick him after we get back from vacation on dec2. . Gee, no, picking him up on Nov xx doesnt work with our plans, mom. We're not available until Dec 2"

That is so typical of someone with a personality disorder to attempt to mess up other people's plans right near the very time they are to take place. I am convinced this is part of their illness and really should not be enabled.

See if there is some way to have her looked after so that you too can go on on this much needed already plan for trip. She has cost you and you two enough!

Frankly, she cannot handle you having anyone else in your life other than her. You two, mother and daughter, need to get an emotional divorce.

I realize that I'm not you. However, at this point my patience would have completely failed. I would feel very tempted to say a line from Gone With the Wind and a line from the Wizard of Oz to express both intention of not putting up with these games anymore and some anger too. However, that's me, not you.

Thanks to both of you for writing back. I feel better today. Some days just grab me and I feel so scared and vulnerable. P.S. My mother took her shower without calling me and was just fine. 😀 I am glad she takes precautions.
My mother has so many emotional needs that I never know whether she is trying to lay on a guilt trip on me (she has done this all my life) or if it is real. You know... The boy who cried wolf. It makes it tough. I want to make sure she is ok but also need to detach emotionally. Tough road to navigate. Some days she is so excited and happy--almost manic and other days verydepressed. Will not take any pills for the mood swings.

She has found a dog she is waiting for from a breeder, and the wait has been long. The dog just had puppies and my mom is due to get her in about 6 weeks. (Just about the time my husband and I are supposed to be on a short but highly needed three night vacation we have had planned for months...) Anyhow, as she gets older and more forgetful, it makes the emotional detachment a bit more difficult, but my counselor is helping me a great deal. So are you guys! XXOO

Nijny, there's nothing wrong with being concerned about your mother. You worry about a fall, which is logical. Imagine if she did fall and break something. That's worse than a bit of worry!

Thanks for the update. It's a mixed path of messy ups and downs which become less wide in range over time. You are right, you will be with this therapist or a therapist for several years.

If you have not gone to bed yet, guve your husband a big hug, a warm kiss, try falling asleep with an arm ir two around your husband thinking about your best memories together and when mom's voice in your head goes off, tell her you have your own spouse and go take a walk or whatever, but just go. Remind yourself as needed that you're a grown who is married and no longer mommy's little girl who is not grown up enough to have her own life with a married man as his married wife. I would tell you to say to her what my wife's pastor told her to say to her mom that was the same thing someone told me to say to mine. I have, but I have told you more politely the basic underlying message.

Basically, dam mom's torpedoes, snuggle up with hubby and remember yall's good times and take no prisoners in your goal of a good night's sleep. Nite!!!!

Hello friends--I wanted to give an update. I want to share my progress made but also my steps backward. I am so frustrated when I feel like I am losing ground instead of gaining it. The counselor has helped tremendously and I think I will see her for quite a while to come. I had to skip this week because I was so worried about a health issue my daughter had. It was a tough week all the way around. But, I am leeping a journal and really have made many steps forward.

I have been doing great not needing my mother's approval so much and not catering to her every need. But today was a big step backward. The stress of a zillion other things didn't help. i honestly think that most of the problem is me. She is who she is (often, but not always, narcissistic and cold and unloving) and I am the only one who can fix it for myself. So why am I still struggling? The big but stupid issue of the day is me worrying. I spent the morning with my mother and she was "extremely tired." She told me she was going to take a shower tonight. I told her that my husband and I would not be around--she likes to call me before she takes it and when she gets out in case she falls. She hasn't fallen n the shower before, but she is ever so careful about all possibilities surrounding herself. This carefulness probably serves her very well. So she told me not to worry about her tonight. I said, "But I do worry." She said, "Well, I am telling you not to." Then I did and said a few more things that annoyed her and here I sit wondering if she is angry with me again. I cannot believe I am worrying like this. I thought I was past it. So... I believe I will get close to my goal of not feeling like she is my "constant job," but now I feel as though I have pushed the end goal of my emotional detachment farther away all by myself. What in the world is wrong with me? Some days I just disgust myself! Thanks for reading.

Sometimes we need to remind ourselves of that! It's not within our "locus of control"

Agreed. That is what the psychologist said. She wanted me to remember that what my mother thinks is up to her and I have no control over it. She has her own thoughts and emotions and I have mine. AND MINE COUNT!!! Thanks. Babalou!

You have no control over her anger or sadness. You have your emotions and she has hers.

Hello everyone--

I continue to make progress, but still working hard. I felt as though I had a major breakthrough this past week and the psychologist agreed. I am connecting more than ever with my "inner child," and keeping my emotional distance from my mother much more effectively. I am not used to this! It mostly feels great, but also sort of sad. The other day, my mother and I had a very long conversation after she accused me of saying something I did not say. I eventually went over to check on her and when I entered she was sitting, sort of deeply sleeping but not completely. She mumbled she was trying to kill herself by no longer eating. (She has a pretty good body weight and that would certainly take a very long time...) We started conversing about what I said that was bothering her, and she felt a little better, but manwhile I had an idea to record our conversation on my phone. I listened to the recording a few times in the evening until my husband told me to stop and erase it, which I did. But is was worth all the listening. I noticed a few things--my mother is starting to slip cognitively more than I realized and I now know there is no hope whatsoever for us to ever have a true and meaningful relationship. That ship has sailed. I also learned that she just did not ever really see me as a separate person. The discussion was so long that I couldn't begin to describe it all here, but by asking her some questions, I realized that I absolutely cannot fix her. (Like you all told me!!) No wonder all of my ridiculous, herculean efforts haven't worked all these years! No wonder I haven't had a nurturing mother--she just cannot be that person due to her own issues. It was like an epiphany. I am now trying to balance what I need to do to help her while protecting myself from her verbal onslaughts. She continues to be mean but also periodically confused. i have to learn how to deal with that a little better. Today she told me she could feel me distancing myself from her, and she is right -- I am, but I didn't say that. Her expressed solution was, "Now I need to distance myself from you..." and not ask me for another thing, besides what I already do for her... Her nastiness is intact for sure, but she is somehow more vulnerable. I have to work on keeping myself steady and in control as she gets more confused and angrier.

But here is the really good news-- I hardly call her anymore--she calls me, and that seems to work better. I am not rushing over there all the time--I am trying to skip a couple of days per week and only go over once a day when I do go--she lives in a duplex, not a senior independent living place. (I used to do a ridiculous amount of work to try and please her or make her happy with me...) I am keeping a journal, and... well... I feel different--not so connected to her. I think I am on the road to recovery, but I never thought it would happen. So, once again, thank you, and keep wishing me well. I am undoing a lifetime of "brainwashing," but it is actually happening. I guess a good way to sum it up is that I am still concerned and bothered when she is upset and angry, but I no longer perform as her super-woman or her whipping post. Nor do I think I have done something wrong for which I need to be forgiven when she is angry. That is major. Thanks, friends, you are making a huge, huge difference and I am getting better!

Hi back at you! Glad things are getting on track.

Hi! I actually had a pretty good weekend after a tough week. You all helped! I am moving forward and making some progress. Keep your fingers crossed for me! More later...

NJ, your mom is in Independent Living, right?

When my mom was in IL, I visited once a week. I rarely spoke to her on the phone. There was a doctor on site several times a week, so she could get herself to the doctor if there was a problem. There was also a geriatric psychiatrist who visited her once a month for management of her anxiety meds.

Just a little reality check for how often someone else checked in with an elderly mom in a facility where there are always people around in a real emergency.

I am on the west coast so the day is early. Thanks for checking on me--I love my new friends! I am doing pretty good. I have decided to ask the psychologist with whom I am working to focus on behavioral changes I can make, in addition to rescuing and helping my inner child. Like I want to have her work with me to put a limit on how much contact I have with my mother. It is a slippery slope with me, so I want to focus on increasing my "fun" time with my husband and friends and decreasing the time I spend with her or on the phone with her. You have all helped me recognize my important need to sort of reformat my life before it is too late. My husband is already appreciating all of the great advice I have received. :-). He is worth it, and so am I. So for the moment I am doing pretty good. I am hoping I feel the same way later today, tomorrow, and forever. Ha! I gues one step at a time, or maybe three steps at a time--I am getting older and don't have that much time to waste! Thank you so much!

So, NJ, how is it going today?

Good to here you are smiling! Believe it not, amidst all of the books about romance for men about women, I saw a very unique book in a hospital gift shop of all places. The title is really surprising "Romancing Your Husband."

Men tend to view romance different from women. So, it might be very interesting to ask your husband what he thinks is romantic. Hopefully he will answer you and ask you what you find romantic.

Then, ya;ll go out for a romantic night that included some from each list. Be creative, unwind, and have fun! Who knows, but ya'll just might have such an enjoyable and refreshing time together than both of you might find yourselves feeling much younger because romance can be so re-energizing.

There is one more book that comes to mind, but I think I've said plenty. Unwind and enjoy being a wife again whom I'm sure he will enjoy and feel closer to you again for.

Have fun, but don't feel that you have to tell anyone about it for it's not like your date, dating, but your dating-married which is no one else's business who is on the outside.

I think romance in marriage is part of one's own private world that is to be enjoyed and kept alive as well as protected.

Your children will be glad to see a sparkle in your eyes once again and it will be good marital modeling for them. As true as that it, do so primarily just for you two!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My wife and I have been married since 1988 and we were in our early 30's when we got married. . We continue to find creative and fun ways to be a fun loving couple! Ok, that's all the suggestions that I'm go to say for each couple must create their own private life in their own way.

I love it! Thanks for great ideas and making me smile! Awesome!