I’m going to approach this from a different perspective. If this situation will likely be continuing to gnaw at you, I’d suggest that you meet with a disability rights attorney on sisters behalf both to address the issues relating to when she lived with your mom and to make sure all legal needed for sister future is done or refreshened.
Heres what I’d want the atty to look into because IF any, yes ANY of the $ your Sister received was from Social Security, like it was via SSI or SSDI or WAS a State of AZ income funding for the developmental disabled, because monies from those have very strict requirements as to how they are handled by others (like your mom) on the behalf of the disabled person (your sister). And there are significant penalties placed that can reach back forever if mishandled.
So if you mom used Sisters money/ income to benefit herself, or forced Sister to do piecemeal work and sold it, again to benefit herself, that should not have happened. And a good disability rights attorney will find way to get reparations against your mom for your sister. But realize this means any relationship with mom is over, which may be what is needed.
I don’t know if you’ve ever had any experience with SS non retirement income or with being a representative payee for SSA but they do come with their own pretty legally restrictive rules. My hubs was at full retirement age while our son was still in high school; Hubs was still continuing to work but he’s not one to ever leave $ on the table so to speak so took his SS retirement even tho still working & our son got his own SS benefit his Jr & Sr year of high school based on his dads SS FRA income (for 2 years while in HS). I referred to it as the SS old rooster benefit, lol! Anyways as a part of it, forms had to be done by registrar of sons HS which they mailed independently to SSA; we as his parents each had forms signed off and submitted, banking forms done too; & we (ok, me) kept an accounting of how $ spent as it all had to be spent on him and zero could be saved to be used beyond age 18 or for college. Couple years later got a letter from SSA asking for how kids jr yr HS $ spent (specifically this year too, nothing but fun!), which SSA can do as it’s within the IRS guidelines for keeping tax records.
anyways my point is, if your mom was your sisters SSA representative payee, mom did a legally binding agreement with SSA to use all sisters SSA $ in a responsible manner (aka a fiduciary duty) for Sister’s benefit, & under penalty if not. Imho that’s what the attorney will want to go after and use as leverage. You on your own can’t be Pitt bullie enough to deal with your mom, but a good disability rights attorney - like a good divorce attorney - can be. That’s why you hire an attorney. And they won’t be about back wages & figuring out hours stuff, that’s a waste of time nonsense; it will be about a $$$ settlement. & it could get ugly. Not everyone is ok on taking this path with their family / future ex whatevers, so give this some thought. Good luck in your decision making.
svansholm: Perchance if you weren't receiving wages while you were an active family caregiver, chances are slim to none to receive any such $$ after the fact. True story - my mother lived on a poverty wage for her entire life; I was her caregiver and I expected nothing in return except her unconditional love.
What "wages?". With no set financial attengement, a family member just does what needs to be done, for however long it is needed. A request can be made for some extra financial consideration when an estate is settled, but there is no legal requirement that such a request be met.
My advice don’t bother . Court battles are extremely negative and can cause trauma unless you can afford a very expensive lawyer . Your sister has her freedom work on that . I would like to collect on all the free babysitting I did in my childhood which was a lot . The past is the past focus on the present 🎁 Meals on wheels , day programs - places where your sister can enrich her life .
Fifteen years is probably too long for an ordinary employment law case.
If the mother has deep pockets you might be able to get a lawyer interested. Anyone can sue. I do seem to recall a case where an illegal alien was forced to work in some kind of sweatshop, threatened, physically abused, and restrained from leaving; they were pursuing some kind of involuntary servitude claim that covered a number of years.
The issue will be getting around the assumption that “I let my disabled child live with me and she contributed to running the household to what extent she could.” So you’d be looking for things inconsistent with that. She was contributing a $2,000 disability check in an area where a room rents for $400. She was working ten hours a day producing crafts sold on Etsy. She was restrained from leaving the property or communicating with others. She was able to be productive and live reasonably independently before and/or after the fifteen years.
If there are no deep pockets, you might be better off setting her up for success from here. Follow through on pursuing any programs that she qualifies for. If there is any eventual inheritance give her a little help from yours and encourage other heirs to do the same.
Probably not useful to the original poster, but if the conditions were extreme enough to result in criminal conviction, payment of back wages may be required as restitution.
Here’s a case involving a daughter-in-law. “Virginia family sent to prison after forcing Pakistan woman into ‘modern-day equivalent of slavery“ https://www.wric.com/news/virginia-news/virginia-family-sentenced-after-performing-decade-long-modern-day-equivalent-of-slavery-of-family-member
No, I don't think she can get compensation now. There has to be an agreement of payment.
Just curious and u don't have to answer but why did it take so long to get sister out of the house? At age 18 ur sister was considered emancipated by law. Your Mom had to get guardianship to take care of sisters affairs.
At this point you can get resources for your sister. Does she get SS? She should be able to as a disabled child. She gets it from her parents earnings. There's also SSI, Supplimental income. She can get Medicaid if she doesn't have it. Maybe a group home. There is also Adult daycare where she can get some socialization.
”I am assisting my developmentally sister (69 yrs) who was our mother's involuntary family caregiver for more than 15 years. As time went on, it became apparent that our mother was abusing my sister. About six months ago, I helped my sister move out of our mother's home and to a town closer to me. I'm trying to help my sister - including trying to see if there is any way she can obtain back wages for all the caregiving she did for nothing. She is too intellectually vulnerable herself to have voluntarily agreed to sacrifice her own life and financial security to care for our mother. This was not a "gift" of family caregiving by my sister, but an appropriation of my sister's life, and time, and ability to earn outside money. Our mother abused my sister in many ways - including, but not limited to psychological and financial abuse - while my sister was living with her. There was never any agreement that my sister should be our mother's caregiver. Any suggestions as to how I could help my sister?”
It would be sensible to check the last answer. Most contracts are enforceable without being in writing (exceptions for things like sale of land). It’s just much much easier to prove that the agreement existed if it’s documented. What sister would need to show is almost certainly that the agreement included payment. If sister agreed and did the care, but mother never agreed to pay for it, there is nothing to enforce. Legally (in most places) the agreement/ contract would also need other elements, like certainty (how long, what conditions) and the consideration (rate of pay, even if pegged to some identifiable ‘average’).
The usual answer to this question is ‘no’. If there's no documentation, it's usually an indicator that it wasn't intended as a binding agreement - unless there are formal witnesses or it's a special situation like an auction bid. But try for compensation, by all means. Few professional executors would consider paying up, a family member might. Just don’t spend too much money on lawyers.
Arizona is unique in the sense that a handshake agreement is enforceable if there is proof that one party acted on the agreement.
That your sister stayed and became caregiver could get her compensation under that condition.
Mom just abusing her daughter might not fly.
Did mom take sisters money? Did sister see a professional and share what was going on? A doctor would chart what your sister said. Is the information you have solely from your sister?
Do you have anything in writing? I ask because mom could twist the narrative to make it appear that she was being taken advantage of by her daughter.
Sister can always submit a bill to mom and make mom prove it isn't true or she can submit it to her estate upon mom's death and hope she gets made whole that way.
There are never any guarantees about how something like this will shake out.
Heres what I’d want the atty to look into because IF any, yes ANY of the $ your Sister received was from Social Security, like it was via SSI or SSDI or WAS a State of AZ income funding for the developmental disabled, because monies from those have very strict requirements as to how they are handled by others (like your mom) on the behalf of the disabled person (your sister). And there are significant penalties placed that can reach back forever if mishandled.
So if you mom used Sisters money/ income to benefit herself, or forced Sister to do piecemeal work and sold it, again to benefit herself, that should not have happened. And a good disability rights attorney will find way to get reparations against your mom for your sister. But realize this means any relationship with mom is over, which may be what is needed.
I don’t know if you’ve ever had any experience with SS non retirement income or with being a representative payee for SSA but they do come with their own pretty legally restrictive rules. My hubs was at full retirement age while our son was still in high school; Hubs was still continuing to work but he’s not one to ever leave $ on the table so to speak so took his SS retirement even tho still working & our son got his own SS benefit his Jr & Sr year of high school based on his dads SS FRA income (for 2 years while in HS). I referred to it as the SS old rooster benefit, lol! Anyways as a part of it, forms had to be done by registrar of sons HS which they mailed independently to SSA; we as his parents each had forms signed off and submitted, banking forms done too; & we (ok, me) kept an accounting of how $ spent as it all had to be spent on him and zero could be saved to be used beyond age 18 or for college. Couple years later got a letter from SSA asking for how kids jr yr HS $ spent (specifically this year too, nothing but fun!), which SSA can do as it’s within the IRS guidelines for keeping tax records.
anyways my point is, if your mom was your sisters SSA representative payee, mom did a legally binding agreement with SSA to use all sisters SSA $ in a responsible manner (aka a fiduciary duty) for Sister’s benefit, & under penalty if not. Imho that’s what the attorney will want to go after and use as leverage. You on your own can’t be Pitt bullie enough to deal with your mom, but a good disability rights attorney - like a good divorce attorney - can be. That’s why you hire an attorney. And they won’t be about back wages & figuring out hours stuff, that’s a waste of time nonsense; it will be about a $$$ settlement. & it could get ugly. Not everyone is ok on taking this path with their family / future ex whatevers, so give this some thought. Good luck in your decision making.
the free babysitting I did in my childhood which was a lot . The past is the past focus on the present 🎁 Meals on wheels , day programs - places where your sister can enrich her life .
If the mother has deep pockets you might be able to get a lawyer interested. Anyone can sue. I do seem to recall a case where an illegal alien was forced to work in some kind of sweatshop, threatened, physically abused, and restrained from leaving; they were pursuing some kind of involuntary servitude claim that covered a number of years.
The issue will be getting around the assumption that “I let my disabled child live with me and she contributed to running the household to what extent she could.” So you’d be looking for things inconsistent with that. She was contributing a $2,000 disability check in an area where a room rents for $400. She was working ten hours a day producing crafts sold on Etsy. She was restrained from leaving the property or communicating with others. She was able to be productive and live reasonably independently before and/or after the fifteen years.
If there are no deep pockets, you might be better off setting her up for success from here. Follow through on pursuing any programs that she qualifies for. If there is any eventual inheritance give her a little help from yours and encourage other heirs to do the same.
Here’s a case involving a daughter-in-law. “Virginia family sent to prison after forcing Pakistan woman into ‘modern-day equivalent of slavery“ https://www.wric.com/news/virginia-news/virginia-family-sentenced-after-performing-decade-long-modern-day-equivalent-of-slavery-of-family-member
Just curious and u don't have to answer but why did it take so long to get sister out of the house? At age 18 ur sister was considered emancipated by law. Your Mom had to get guardianship to take care of sisters affairs.
At this point you can get resources for your sister. Does she get SS? She should be able to as a disabled child. She gets it from her parents earnings. There's also SSI, Supplimental income. She can get Medicaid if she doesn't have it. Maybe a group home. There is also Adult daycare where she can get some socialization.
”I am assisting my developmentally sister (69 yrs) who was our mother's involuntary family caregiver for more than 15 years. As time went on, it became apparent that our mother was abusing my sister. About six months ago, I helped my sister move out of our mother's home and to a town closer to me. I'm trying to help my sister - including trying to see if there is any way she can obtain back wages for all the caregiving she did for nothing. She is too intellectually vulnerable herself to have voluntarily agreed to sacrifice her own life and financial security to care for our mother. This was not a "gift" of family caregiving by my sister, but an appropriation of my sister's life, and time, and ability to earn outside money. Our mother abused my sister in many ways - including, but not limited to psychological and financial abuse - while my sister was living with her. There was never any agreement that my sister should be our mother's caregiver. Any suggestions as to how I could help my sister?”
The usual answer to this question is ‘no’. If there's no documentation, it's usually an indicator that it wasn't intended as a binding agreement - unless there are formal witnesses or it's a special situation like an auction bid. But try for compensation, by all means. Few professional executors would consider paying up, a family member might. Just don’t spend too much money on lawyers.
That your sister stayed and became caregiver could get her compensation under that condition.
Mom just abusing her daughter might not fly.
Did mom take sisters money? Did sister see a professional and share what was going on? A doctor would chart what your sister said. Is the information you have solely from your sister?
Do you have anything in writing? I ask because mom could twist the narrative to make it appear that she was being taken advantage of by her daughter.
Sister can always submit a bill to mom and make mom prove it isn't true or she can submit it to her estate upon mom's death and hope she gets made whole that way.
There are never any guarantees about how something like this will shake out.
Is mom in AZ too?