Can a person with dementia leave a nursing facility against doctors' orders?

Those judging do not know everyone's situation. I have to work to support my daughter and myself. I cannot stay home like some that no longer work. My father has dementia and cancer and cannot walk. He is a 2 person assist and to pay for Home health for 2 people costs much more than nursing home care.

I don't know of anyone who is in a nursing home who wants to be there.

What are her medical needs that led to her being placed in 24/7 care?

Are you able to meet those medical needs yourself by yourself?

Why do you think you can provide better 24/7 care than three shifts of people 24/7?

If your cousin has medical poa, she may be able to block your course of action.

For her to leave the nursing home, they would have to consider her a safe release, that is she is going into a situation where she will receive the same level of care.

I don't think that your mom can just check herself out. Did she check herself in?

If you just try to take her out of there on your own, they could call the police on you.

My mom is in a nursing home she doesn't wanna be there any more and I want to bring her home the thing is that my cousin has poa and she doesn't want mom to come home can my mom leave? And can they call the police if I take her?

My roommate is 69, and has congestive heart failure, diabetes 2, arthritis, and mild epilepsy, in addition to some behavioral issues. She has been mistreated on numerous occasions by staffers there, and the "administrator" invariably sides with her staffers, and only recently, admitted that she has now seen her people commit physical, mental, emotional, and verbal acts of abuse, and now knows that we were telling the truth all along! My roommate and I have been told repeatedly by nurses and her social worker that if I took her home to spend a night or weekend with me, it would mean a $215.00 a night bed hold fee. I saw many other patients take weekend leaves with family members and friends, and THEY were'nt subjected to these huge fees! The administrator finally admitted that Medicare pays for up to five days a month of recreational leave! So, two people who were roommates for 36 years were unnaturally kept apart for more than three YEARS!! I am currenty working on a leave for her, but apparently the visiting contracted nursing home M.D. has ALL the power in this decision, and can allege that my friend is'nt well enough to go home on the 4th Of July for a weekend with me. Since her doctor totally ignores me, I have to wonder what I can do to challenge her medical assessment, and FORCE her to agree that my roommate is well enough to go home with me one weekend a month! There must be a process, and somebody to help us. This would do wonders for my roommates emotional outlook and mental health, since she is dying to be with me, and when I leave after visits, she always starts crying! The ombudsman is the typical JOKE! Somebody has pulled an inside buy off job, because they can barely say their own names, and they ALWAYS side with the facility!! Jeannette's doctor is the interloper here, not ME! DUH! I have known Jeannette for 41 years, and been her sole source of protection and support. I suppose I will be forced to get a full POA or guardianship to get these tyrants to cooperate and to respond to our concerns!

And wow, Trapper456 is another judger. What if you don't have a family that you can get to chip in on a care provider for home full time. What do you know about that person? I see you "dumped" your mother in a home at some point. I think you probably did no research at all on the home you left your mother in. Sorry to be so harsh; it's just my judgement on you and Mamanek.

Lucky wealthy Mamanek to be able to live with no income. JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED ...Matthew 7:1-3

Yes, well one nursing home is one nursing home. Many of us have had far better experiences with staff at nursing homes where there are many eyes on the situation, as opposed to a single caregiver isolated at home with the patient. In my opinion, this is particularly true if your loved one has dementia and is paranoid. When my mom tells me that there are floods all the time in the basement of the facility (it has no basement) and that it's been sold again (because a man in a suit walked down the hallway), i don't need to launch an investigation. There are many definitions of "taking care of" family members.

Even though I may be opposed to leaving someone in a nursing care facility, I think that I may have an answer to your question. If it so happens that your mother get's out of a nursing home here is what you can do. Several years ago when my mom was younger she used to work for a lady that had all the things that you are talking about. She was hired by the family through the job service as a part time temporary person to come in during the days while her son was at work. My mother made sure that she had gotten all of her medicine and was taken care of during the day. The family went together on the finances and hired my mom. My mom had some nurses’ aide experience that is why she was hired in the first place. If you decide to take this route just do a criminal background search on the person to make sure that they have no issues with abuse or anything like that. I still have something against nursing homes, but if you where going to do something this would be a better way to go; That way if you or none of the other family members can take care of her there will be someone there for you mother. You could possibly go to-gether on the finances and hire someone or a couple of people full time permanent; That way there is someone there all the time to take care of your mother. She would be a lot better off this way because she could actually build a relationship with these people. Just a suggestion! Sorry about being so harsh on the other post, I just fell very strongly against nursing homes since we had such a horrible experience with the one my mom was at.

OK! I may have been a little harsh on the last post that I created, But I just feel that when a person takes care of you, you should be able to at least figure out a way to take care of someone that you love. In my opinion and my opinion only, some of the people that are nurses and nurse’s aids could care less about your loved one. The only thing that some of them are there to do is collect heir paycheck. I know that this is the only way to survive, but in my experience in the last couple of months this is what I see here in "The Car And Rehab Center" where I live. I was in no way trying to make anybody feel guilty about anything that they are doing, I was just merely stating what I feel to be true. When my mother was a younger person she and my grandmother moved in with my great grandmother of 106 to help take care of her until the day she died. I may come from a different side of the tracks, but I just feel that you should be able to help somebody out that took care of you until you where old enough to take care of yourself; I am just merely stating the facts the way that I see them. Yes, if there is no other choice in getting help then maybe a nursing home is the answer, but be very careful because your loved ones may end up worse then they where in the beginning because of so many diseases going around, that in the nursing home they are easier to catch because of shared bathrooms, and maybe the cleanliness is not what it should be. Be very, very careful because some people die from things that they would have never died from in the nursing home if they had not been around that environment. A health care worker can transfer all kinds of germs when they are dealing with other patients if they don't practice good hand washing techniques after dealing with another patient. When this one nurses aide had helped clean up after my mother, she had something that was catchy that she picked up down at the nursing home, well to make a kind of long story short I had to ask him to wear gloves because he was getting that on his skin, and he could have very easily transferred this to another patient; Instead he just said I have been doing this for 20 years and nothing has killed me yet. This kind of irresponsibility is what I am talking about. A nursing care facility is in no way one of the safest places to be. I have gotten of the beaten path and I am somewhat sorry for the other post, but these are sometimes very dangerous places to be. There is one nursing home up here that is being investigated for several rapes that happened in this facility. This was going on about 4:00am when no one was around and no one could hear what was going on. They just got caught because a nurse had come in early because of some paper work that she had to finish up. No, back to the subject: Leaving against medical advice. If a nursing home patient wants to leave AMA they can, and yes there are some consequence's to it, but nothing like they say, the just make it sound scarier then it actually is because they are not getting paid for the room, and the attending doctor is not getting paid for keeping that patient in there because they get around $3,000.00 per month for keeping a patient in. They just make it sound like leaving AMA is scarier than it is. My uncle did just this, because he thought that he would be better off at home. He had Alcoholic Alzheimer's disease. After the nursing home experience because it was a bad one, he realized how important it was not to drink and do that to yourself. He spoke to his Dr. after that and the Dr. told him that if he did not quite drinking it would kill him. Guess what? He quit drinking cold turkey. As for the last post, I did in no way want to judge anybody, but, I just seen very little compassion for older people and in kind of angered me. If you think that your mothers, fathers, or disabled children are better off that way then so be it. But that is something that I would never in my wildest dreams every do again, nor ever recommend to anyone to do, not even my worst enemy.

Double wow! According to the two people on this thread that are trying to shame those of us who placed our loved one in a NH, I should bring my mother with advanced dementia home. She can then duck and run with me when my husband with Alzheimer's goes into another rage and starts throwing things. Except, she can't run and would not understand the need to duck. My brother lives too far away to help.

I too am sorry about your mother but in my mother's case the safest place is a NH. She's only been there almost a month and you're right the NH has some problems so I have to advocate for her but it's better for her to be missing some clothes then to be hit by a flying book at my house.

Wow! What a way to begin here with a pain filled post like this! I'm sorry for your mother's horrible experience with a nursing home, but know that they are not all that way.

While I understand that is what fuels your venting post, it comes across as a self-righteous ranting rage against anyone who has their loved one in a nursing home.

This is a site where people seek to be supportive of one another, but not spewing such verbal judgment upon them.

I am not accepting your words of judgement and shame. You can keep them.

Anyone who does not take care of the (person or (Person's) that took care of you when you could not take care of yourself shame on you!!! You are as responsible to take care of them when they get older, I do not care weather it is a parent, grandparent, or a disabled child, you should take care of them because they are your parent's, siblings, or whatever. You should be ashamed of yourself for leaving that person in a nursing home because no one like a family member could care for them in a responsible manner as you could. One comment on here got it right. If you have to pay for a person to come to take care of them you should. It is now about $6,000.00 per month to leave someone in a nursing care facility.
My mother had a similar experience where she was in a nursing home for rehab, then they tried to keep her in there so our hackles went up when they tried to do this. Me, my brother and sister are taking turns taking care of her. Anyone can do this if you are not to worried about yourself and that it is going to interrupt your lifestyle to help the person or persons that took care of you all your life. Sure, it is going to interrupt your lifestyle for a while but you own that person something for all the years of help that they gave you all your life. When you leave someone in a nursing home, you get what you get, and there are so many diseases that can be spread around a nursing care facility that it is not even funny. My mother ended up with 2 different viruses when she was at the nursing home for a brief time, and got re-infected just before she left. Yes, we had to help her on all aspects of it but today she is doing a lot better then she was in there. If we would have left her in there who knows what else she would have gotten from that place. That is because places like this are not the cleanest places in the world. Their Menu for food was crap, the nurses aids where sh*tty at their job, not all of them but most of them, because they where so short handed that it was pitiful. I had to stay around there to make sure they would come to my mothers room when she rang her bell because it sometimes took 30-35 minutes before anybody would come, so I would get on their ass about it to make sure they where doing their job they where getting paid good money to take care of her, so you got to make sure they do the job they are getting paid for.
There are plenty of nurses that have private care that are not to expensive when you look at it, plus when you can you can divide the chores up between the family to make it a lot cheaper. My whole thing here is don't, and I repeat, do not let a nursing home take care of your family because you get what you get when you do this. Good luck with your mother and come on and step up!!!!

Where is he living now?

He is a DIALYSIS patient

My husband walked out in Dec14 he was not taken care of ... now a lot of problems are following What do I do?arizona

Your sister can take her out. Your mother on her own shouldn't be able to. And it sounds like she wouldn't get far without someone helping her anyway. However should your sister decide to take her out be sure there won't be some problems with your insurance coverage you were unaware of first.

my mother has terminal cancer and dementia and wants to leave the nursing home. Doctors orders are for her to stay. My sister has power of attorney over her so my question is can she leave on her own against doctors orders?

they can leave but theylle have to know the d**n door code.

Star I'm not religious either but last time I looked it was a free country and everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and opinions. People come here to ask, share, try to make some sense of their own particular situation and get a little comfort. Nastiness and name calling is childish and so unnecessary.

Mamanik is a self righteous fundie

Here in Canada no-one gets to walk out of a nursing home. All outer doors are locked and if someone is taken for an outing they have to be signed in and out.

Does the patient loose her Medicaid benefits if she leaves a nursing facility AMA? Her husband has Medical Power of Attorney.

If you are your mother's medical POA, you may be held liable for whatever happens to your mother when she is taken out the nursing home against medical advice.

My mother is being taken out tomorrow AMA, she is being taken out by 2 of my sisters who despite the fact that I am POA have managed to work around this. They have forged papers to an apartment complex from her doctor and faxed them saying that mother did not need to be in the home any longer. I do not know if the doctor will file charges or not but we were told today that mom will loose her right to home health care, and her doctor will no longer follow her and there is a possibility that she will loose her SSI check. My sisters think it is better for mom to be out, despite the other 5 of us saying different. They will not let her live in their own homes. They say they will take care of her at her apartment. Since I have refused to see it their way, I have been denied the right to visit her and if she passes, the right to attend her services. I think that to them what mother wants out weighs what she needs. I feel just the opposite.

If you go to medicare.gov, you will find a web site that rates nursing homes. All of them that take medicare/medicaid have to have annual evaluations. They are graded on staffing, quality, and other items. You can also read about complaints and the inadequacies found in the inspections. This will help determine what kind of NH your mom is in and if there are better ones in the area.

Mamanik: We can look after our relatives without having them live with us. It sounds like your Grandmother was in a terrible place and I commend you for taking her in and improving her life. It's not your place, however, to kick everyone else to the curb with you biblical interpretations. Helping our families or others in need is God's work, but it can be done in many fashions.

I'd also try to show up at different times and days. That way the staff doesn't know when you are likely to visit and treat her accordingly. And it will give you a better idea of how she is being treated at all times of the day.

As an RN, I can give you the facts per Missouri law. If she has a diagnosis of Dementia, then the Dr. should have already wrote a letter stating she is "Unable to make her own decisions" due to mental status. In which case, her Durable Medical Power of Attorney (DPOA) makes her decisions on her behalf. If she doesn't have a DPOA, then you would need to consult an attorney to have this taken care of. If you are the DPOA, then you need to immediately consult with the nursing homes social worker and administrator. She needs to be placed in a Dementia unit for her safety, if they have one. If not, many places have monitors which can be placed on the resident or their mode of transportation, such as a wheel chair, walker, etc. We call them "Wander Guards" and they will set off an alarm if she goes past the safe zone. If this becomes a ongoing issue of her trying to leave and their is no locked Dementia unit, I would then suggest replacement to a facility which has one.

On another note, see how she is being treated. I would not suggest asking her, but I would stay for a day and hangout. What time do they get her up, how does meal time go, is she sedated all the time, is she kept clean and the general appearance of the facility. I used to teach as class called "Understanding Memory Care". If your mother is acting out and wants to go home, there is probably a reason. The program tought the staff to not look at things they do as "behaviors", but "needs". Is she eating enough, drinking enough, toileted or changed when needed, is she too hot or too cold,is she staying busy and active? People with Dementia have "behaviors" when their needs are unmet. Encourage her to participate in as many actvities as possible. If we keep them preoccupied, they are less often to get agitated. I noticed on the dementia unit where I worked, they just wanted some attention....someone to talk to. I always stopped and chatted whenever possible.

I hope this is helpful.

Mamanik - it is unfortunate that you feel this way. You are blessed to be in a position to quit your job to help your grandmother. Most people do not have that luxury. There are so many situations where a nursing home is the best and safest place for an elderly relative. Jesus taught us not to judge. Every person on this board is doing the best they can and needs and deserves our support for the personal, individual and often difficult decisions they have to make. It's unfortunate that your grandmother was heavily sedated throughout the day - perhaps it should have been monitored more closely.

there are adult day care centers... they take people in at 8-4pm, 5 to 6 days a week And if your mom can qualify financially its about 11 dollars a day.

U and i have the same problem. There is no hope however she can't leave without someone helping her to get there. My mother is in the nursing home for the 3 rd time. This time she stays. All i tell her is that it's up to her doctor to release her.
She stills blames me but i keep telling her "you are the one who told me to call 911"! Nothing will change buuuuuut be prepared for the consequences if you take her out AMA....