Before my husband passed away, I had an elder attorney change my POA from my husband to our son. Then, my son and I made an appointment with the bank. I asked that my son be added to my bank account only so he could write checks if I became incapacitated. This appointment took a while because the bank’s legal department had to be involved. My son was added with POA in front of his name. While on line I discovered I could opt in to have my accounts passed on to him upon my death.
I am adding a caveat (warning) NOT to quickly remove your mother's name off the accounts because if a check comes in from someplace (life insurance, death benefit from previous employer, etc.), you need your mother's name on the account to deposit the check if it's made out to her. If you've removed your mom's name from the account, you might not be able to deposit it and have lost that extra money. I don't have a suggested time frame for this, I've just read too many unfortunate stories about people who quickly removed their parents name from bank accounts and the afterward received a check in the parent name and could not cash the check.
Once she passes on, you get a copy of her death certificate and go to the bank and take care of any remaining business and then close it asap so scammers don't find out she's deceased and try to get into her account or, worse yet, try to get the title to her house, which is REALLY easy to do! I'm sorry you have to go through this and I am sending you lots of love and good vibes!
Folks, Another warning here. Don't take the advice of people on a Forum, of people who are comingling their names on accounts or relying on online banking. Please see an elder law attorney to do POA papers, and submit the POA when the elder is no longer competent to act on account. And please know that if there is a Trust you need BOTH POA and Trustee of Trust to manage said accounts. You will need perfect records. There are thousands of things that can go WRONG with having accounts with your name on it. The elder can say "You stole my money". The IRS can come calling and saying "Whose money is this and why is your name on the account". Medicaid can say "This elder has a lot of money, but whose is it". Just a ton of questions. The RIGHT WAY if you want to manage the bill paying and finances of your elder is to get documents WHILE THEY ARE COMPETENT to manage their Trusts as successor trustee and their accounts as POA WHEN they are NOT competent. See an attorney. Remember, this is a Forum and it is clear from this thread that everyone is doing just about anything and everything that can be imagined. Which will cause problems. Medical advice needed? See an MD. Financial Advice needed? See a bank, an accountant, an attorney. Legal advice needed? See an attorney.
The things my father has done were at the direction of his lawyer (which was in complete oppostion of what was drawn up by the lawyer he'd used ten years earlier). Hopefully the new lawyer is giving dad right direction.
yes so helpful to be on her checks. When she passes later, you can still write bills for her estate ( electric, funeral etc) If the state has an inheritance fee ( Pennsylvania one of the only ones and terribly high) then you only pay on the half of acct because half is your name. I also suggest TOD ( transfer on death) to bank and car and home so those go straight to your family to sell and not in the probate of waiting for estate to close
I'm glad to see this discussion. I was added to one of dad's two checking accounts last month. His reasoning was that there will be bills that need to paid upon his passing and this way I can take care of those bills. I asked about adding me to his other checking account and he replied that it was set up TOD to my sister and I, therefore my name didn't need to go on that account. My sister and I are both have POA.
Dad also set up his investments accounts, home, and car TOD, so I guess everything is in order. He has tried hard to get everything taken care of to make it easy for my sister and I. The only "condition" that exists is that my sister gets the car, not me, since he gave mom's Toyota Highlander to me last year. I'm a 4WD mountain girl and the Subaru would better fit with her city lifestyle.
Check to see if you are named as a beneficiary of the account. Each financial account needs one named. Mom had a small savings account that we had to abandon because no one was named and since we didn’t go through probate the bank wouldn’t release the funds.
My mother and I did the same thing about 6 months ago, and I am not the POA, her sister is but doesn't want to be, or does anything to help. I'm the only child left, I have another aunt (mom's SIL) that helps or visits her on occasion, I also live 1 hour 45 mins away. My mother's memory is getting worse by the minute. Her Dr hasn't declared her as incompetent, but has "Dementia" on her med. diagnosis summary. I'm new to all of this, first time I've ever commented or questioned here, I just read all of the advice. This particular question raised in me. Just last week, as I still keep my mother in the loop on her bills being paid. I have pretty much everything on auto-pay, also use on of the bank accounts that has my name as joint owner with a debit card in mine and her name. She doesn't use the card, rarely used this account, it's more of what she refers to as her "play money" she doesn't do much playing anymore, she doesn't drive, and barely leaves the house, unless I'm taking her to Dr appts, ECT. I do all of her grocery shopping, and anything else she may need. Hence, the reasoning for putting my name on this account so I could use it for the other purchases, besides bills. So, last week she saw where these charges had been made onto this account, as we go over everything on a bi-weekly/monthly basis. She needs to feel as if she is still doing everything herself, I'm not sure IF I'm doing right by letting her believe that she still is, I just want her to be happy. Anyhow, she is questioning the charges on this account, and as normal I show her receipts and what it's for, she just flat out would NOT believe it! Said that there was No Way she would ever put someone onto her accounts! She's starting to get really paranoid, and I felt as if she was accusing me on "somehow putting my name on her account" and using her account. I left her with all her copies, like usual. We went on with our day without another word about it. This is how bad her short term memory is getting, 10 minutes goes by and whatever we were discussing NO MATTER of importance she has moved on and forgot. BUT, the very next day her SIL came to take her out to lunch, my mother asked her to stop by the bank so she could go in a get some cash. My mother went into the bank without an ID, any other documents, and cancelled out that account, I'm not sure if she re-opened a different, or what happened to the monies in the account. No one from the bank contacted me, she can't explain it, or remember what she did, the bank won't give me information. It's going to be a mess when some of the bills are ran through that account, if it's no longer active! I'm so confused, so lost, and THIS isn't even the BIGGEST issues that I deal with on a daily basis. MY APOLOGIES.. if I am asking a question in a question post, like I said I'm new to this site, and this gave me courage to FINALLY ENGAGE in comments, questions other than just reading for hours and wanting to ask questions!! Thank you
Please see an elder law attorney. This is exactly what happens when people think they can co mingle accounts, and WORSE (eventually happens) when it comes to need for medicaid and it is unclear what monies belong to whom and how are bills paid and by who. It should be an account in the person's name, POA who is allowed to act when the person is incompetent to manage finances, and that person signs the account holders name plus their own name AS POA. Then the elder can have a small lending account. See an elder law attorney and try to get this all cleaned up. And to others. Please stop adding your name to your parents accounts thinking that this is a good answer. It is not. It is a bad answer that will cause problems in the future when it is too late to address them due to dementia in the elder. It can cause all kinds of mess when there is a need to act for the senior, in record keeping and in the government coming down like a ton of bricks, adding their own accusations to the elder who is screaming "You took my money". This has to be done right. Sorry. It just has to. And I am amazed that the banks themselves are not cautioning people who are attempting to add their progency to their accounts as anything but POD. Our own accountant warned about co-mingling and the mess it can cause with IRS.
My mom established a trust and placed her bank accounts in it. Later, she added me to her checking account in the event that she would need help in the future.
Turns out a POA or added signature to a checking account will not be accepted if the bank accounts are in a trust. If her money is not in a trust, you will not need to worry about this.
If it is in a trust, you will need to take over the trust to access the money, which will require her to be legally incapacitated.
I manage all her finances by getting digital access. But, to do this, I had to take her physically into her bank and she gave her permission.
Once she dies, if you are her executer or successor trustee, you will need to submit the death certificate to the bank, along with any necessary documents.
I hope you are now added as successor trustee with language that says when you you can become said successor trustee. If not, it will be too late to take Mom into the bank as a competent person and there will be no successor trustee to manage the trust. As you said a POA cannot manage a Trust and a Trustee cannot manage a regular account. Relying on online banking to skid by all this could end in a disaster. Please see an elder law attorney to get this worked out the right way, if you haven't already.
I have POA and I am extremely glad I did that. My husband has Mixed Dementia and as time went on the POA had to be sent to various insurance companies (life and car) plus medical facilities like the hospital. You would be very surprised at what will not be released to you if you do not have that POA.
You add your name jointly to your mother's account with only her funds to manage and pay bills when she is unable to do it herself. Never comingle your funds into your mother's accounts. Doing so may complicate affairs when spending down to Medicaid level should situation happen. Not sure why you are not POA but may ask an elder attorney.
I don't know how many times I have posted that here. I just give up at this point. People seem to have no idea of using POA, getting the accounts done right, keeping the records. And it always comes back to bite them.
BEING ON THE ACCOUNT MAJES YOU A CO-OWNER WHICH ID NOT NECESSARIKY THE SAME AS BEING POA WHICH DEALS WITH YOUR BEING ABLE TO HANDLE ALL FINANCIAL MATTERS, THE BEST WAY TO ADDRESS THIS [AS WELLAS POTENTIAL HEALTH MATTERS] IS TO TALK WITH AN ELDER CARE ATTORMEY [PREFERABLY ONE WHO SPIAL IZES IN THIS AREA]
There are a variety of answers here. Best piece of advice, talk to the bank and find out exactly what the account represents for you. Then ask an estate lawyer how to proceed. Good luck and best wishes!
If you are on the account, the account is automatically yours upon her death. No need for financial poa since you are on the account to pay the bills. POA ends at death, your name on the account does not. Money is yours.
You were added as signature to help her write checks. You could go get the Pay on Death form added to this account so it simply transfers entire balance to only you. If there are siblings involved - you really need to think this out.
Say mom's will wants to divide everything 'in the estate' equally by all surviving children. The only things you are dividing is what is left in mom's name at the time of death. When people start moving things for various reasons (trying to hide from Medicaid, to keep things out of probate, etc) - there may not really be anything left 'in the estate' to divide with all the children...and no guarantee mom's wishes would ever be met. And can create a lot of family drama.
If you are the only person listed on a transfer upon death for the bank account, it becomes your money and will not be a part of the estate. You would not be bound to share with siblings. Will that create problems with siblings for the rest of your life? If you list all of them on the transfer upon death for the bank account, all of the money would belong to each of you ---- if one went to clean out the acct, they could.
In my situation, I was additional signer on the acct for same reason you are. I didn't call bank at time of death to close account because there was still a few outstanding debts to be paid. I made siblings aware of balance at time of death and will record any further expenses. When all that is done, expenses to maintain house will come out of that acct until house is sold or we figure out what we'll do with it. Of course, me and all the siblings agree to do it this way and have never had any argument about what belonged to our mom. From what I've read on this forum and personal stories I've heard, our cohesive family in regard to money issues is a rarity.
If you think there will be problems with other heirs, you need a level head and a sharing heart over the finances --- or an atty to advise
If her name is on the account when her mom dies the money is hers. It has nothing to do with the will unless she wishes to divide it per will. My MIL put husband on all her accounts. When she died the lawyer said if we did not want too we did not need to honor the will because everything was ours that our names were on. Just make sure to pay her bills. Even though everything was ours we did honor the will. By sending each person a check with a letter that said if they cashed the check they would not contest the will. In the letter it stated this is what their grandmother wanted them to have.
I am unsure how to answer this. I am the POA for my mom and can sign checks etc. on her account. My name is on the account as POA. I read what others have said about POD, pay on death. I think that is a wonderful idea if you are POA, to avoid probate. I am not sure what to do if your are not POA. I would recommend perusing POA perhaps, if that is possible. This caregiving is so difficult. I respect you for the hard work you do!
You have a joint account with your mother. That means you can write checks. Definitely you and your mom should have a POA and a Will done with a lawyer. It usually costs a few hundred dollars but worth every penny. When your mother passes on, all you will have to do is bring a copy of her death certificate to the bank and have her name removed from the account. It's that simple.
I was added to my Dad's bank account so I could pay bills. When he died, I continued to use that account for bills related to the upkeep of the family home. A joint account is usually designated JTWROS or POD so it would just continue as your own account. You can check that with your bank.
You can. But in order to be able to close out the account you need to get a POD (payable on death). Just sit down with them and ask for one. You'll sign something and that will be that.
When my Dad passed away a few months ago I got a lawyer to make sure all my Moms affairs were in order. The first thing the lawyer told me to do was to have my Mom put me on her bank account to keep it put of probate upon her passing. This will allow me to pay for her crew action etc. once her debts are payed the rest will be divided as the will states.
My MIL did this as well. It basically makes it your account as well so you can do anything with it that you would do with your own account. And when she passes, nothing will need to go thru probate. Your mother is putting a great amount of trust in you to do this. Just be aware that if the account goes negative, it can affect you negatively as well.
The question should be what happens if either of you die first... are involved in bankruptcy, lawsuits, liens, etc. Your bank should be able to tell you exactly what will happen because they deal with the fallout of problems all the time. There are so many variations of how to put names on accounts that affect how it is handled. An estate lawyer can best advise you when more than one name is added on an account. In other words, even though you understand the money is for your mother.... anyone trying to settle a case with you may be able to take her money as well. So bottom line is be sure of the rights and possible pitfalls when more than one name is on an account. What everyone is saying here is basically true... but based only on what their experience has been with the way their account was created. Find out how the law will affect the specific way your name has been added. A good estate lawyer can also verify all of your documents are worded in the way your mom intends and it is better to find out now rather than deal with the potential pitfalls that can happen after or even before her death (or yours)!
This! Had a friend who was applying for a loan and because her Mom had put her on an account, they wanted Mom to do a credit check as well. Talk to a lawyer.
This depends on the terms and conditions of the bank account.
Joint accounts with right of survivorship (aka "POD," pay on death provision) pass to the joint owner upon death. This is probably the most common form of joint account, and the one usually used by married couples.
BUT there are such things as joint accounts where the account owners are not equal (one is junior, the other senior) and without POD provision. These would become part of the estate and would be locked at the time of death, and remain so until the asset has gone through probate.
So, assuming your name is on the account, you might want to talk to the bank. Or to your mom if you wish to change them, should these not be as you wish (for whatever reason).
This is the correct answer. Call your bank and see if you have POD. When my grandfather and I set up his bank account the bank automatically did this because I was his POA and Executor, they didn’t want me to be dealing with a locked bank account with final expenses and bill payments. There’s a series of YouTube videos about this that breaks down different scenarios that could happen when your LO passes
Myworld, I also was listed on my Dad's account so I could write checks for him. The checks read John Smith OR Jane Doe [of course, real names were used]. I could not co-mingle my money with his.
When Dad passed, his estate went into Probate, and since I was the Ex of Dad's Will, I needed to change that bank account to read Estate of John Smith, so I could continue to write checks for bills coming in.
Once probate was finished, then any money left in that account would go to whomever was named in his Will.
When she dies the money belongs to you. If there are other siblings who should get part of the account, then you should give them their share, but legally, the account would belong only to you.
I was on my parents's account for years, but I never wrote checks on it until I took over their finances for them. Know that that money belongs to your mother, and she is trusting you not to abuse your position as a co-signer on the account. That money is to be used for her expenses and care, not yours.
While on line I discovered I could opt in to have my accounts passed on to him upon my death.
Another warning here. Don't take the advice of people on a Forum, of people who are comingling their names on accounts or relying on online banking.
Please see an elder law attorney to do POA papers, and submit the POA when the elder is no longer competent to act on account.
And please know that if there is a Trust you need BOTH POA and Trustee of Trust to manage said accounts. You will need perfect records. There are thousands of things that can go WRONG with having accounts with your name on it. The elder can say "You stole my money". The IRS can come calling and saying "Whose money is this and why is your name on the account". Medicaid can say "This elder has a lot of money, but whose is it". Just a ton of questions.
The RIGHT WAY if you want to manage the bill paying and finances of your elder is to get documents WHILE THEY ARE COMPETENT to manage their Trusts as successor trustee and their accounts as POA WHEN they are NOT competent.
See an attorney. Remember, this is a Forum and it is clear from this thread that everyone is doing just about anything and everything that can be imagined. Which will cause problems. Medical advice needed? See an MD. Financial Advice needed? See a bank, an accountant, an attorney. Legal advice needed? See an attorney.
If the state has an inheritance fee ( Pennsylvania one of the only ones and terribly high) then you only pay on the half of acct because half is your name.
I also suggest TOD ( transfer on death) to bank and car and home so those go straight to your family to sell and not in the probate of waiting for estate to close
Dad also set up his investments accounts, home, and car TOD, so I guess everything is in order. He has tried hard to get everything taken care of to make it easy for my sister and I. The only "condition" that exists is that my sister gets the car, not me, since he gave mom's Toyota Highlander to me last year. I'm a 4WD mountain girl and the Subaru would better fit with her city lifestyle.
MY APOLOGIES.. if I am asking a question in a question post, like I said I'm new to this site, and this gave me courage to FINALLY ENGAGE in comments, questions other than just reading for hours and wanting to ask questions!! Thank you
See an elder law attorney and try to get this all cleaned up. And to others. Please stop adding your name to your parents accounts thinking that this is a good answer. It is not. It is a bad answer that will cause problems in the future when it is too late to address them due to dementia in the elder. It can cause all kinds of mess when there is a need to act for the senior, in record keeping and in the government coming down like a ton of bricks, adding their own accusations to the elder who is screaming "You took my money".
This has to be done right. Sorry. It just has to. And I am amazed that the banks themselves are not cautioning people who are attempting to add their progency to their accounts as anything but POD. Our own accountant warned about co-mingling and the mess it can cause with IRS.
Turns out a POA or added signature to a checking account will not be accepted if the bank accounts are in a trust. If her money is not in a trust, you will not need to worry about this.
If it is in a trust, you will need to take over the trust to access the money, which will require her to be legally incapacitated.
I manage all her finances by getting digital access. But, to do this, I had to take her physically into her bank and she gave her permission.
Once she dies, if you are her executer or successor trustee, you will need to submit the death certificate to the bank, along with any necessary documents.
Relying on online banking to skid by all this could end in a disaster. Please see an elder law attorney to get this worked out the right way, if you haven't already.
Say mom's will wants to divide everything 'in the estate' equally by all surviving children. The only things you are dividing is what is left in mom's name at the time of death. When people start moving things for various reasons (trying to hide from Medicaid, to keep things out of probate, etc) - there may not really be anything left 'in the estate' to divide with all the children...and no guarantee mom's wishes would ever be met. And can create a lot of family drama.
If you are the only person listed on a transfer upon death for the bank account, it becomes your money and will not be a part of the estate. You would not be bound to share with siblings. Will that create problems with siblings for the rest of your life? If you list all of them on the transfer upon death for the bank account, all of the money would belong to each of you ---- if one went to clean out the acct, they could.
In my situation, I was additional signer on the acct for same reason you are. I didn't call bank at time of death to close account because there was still a few outstanding debts to be paid. I made siblings aware of balance at time of death and will record any further expenses. When all that is done, expenses to maintain house will come out of that acct until house is sold or we figure out what we'll do with it. Of course, me and all the siblings agree to do it this way and have never had any argument about what belonged to our mom. From what I've read on this forum and personal stories I've heard, our cohesive family in regard to money issues is a rarity.
If you think there will be problems with other heirs, you need a level head and a sharing heart over the finances --- or an atty to advise
If it’s overdrawn or the actual POA comes in and removes all the money, checks bounce etc.
Maybe both of you are banking at the same bank, they can recover funds from your personal account
A Trust would protect you from that, I found out the hard way.
When your mother passes on, all you will have to do is bring a copy of her death certificate to the bank and have her name removed from the account. It's that simple.
Joint accounts with right of survivorship (aka "POD," pay on death provision) pass to the joint owner upon death. This is probably the most common form of joint account, and the one usually used by married couples.
BUT there are such things as joint accounts where the account owners are not equal (one is junior, the other senior) and without POD provision. These would become part of the estate and would be locked at the time of death, and remain so until the asset has gone through probate.
So, assuming your name is on the account, you might want to talk to the bank. Or to your mom if you wish to change them, should these not be as you wish (for whatever reason).
When Dad passed, his estate went into Probate, and since I was the Ex of Dad's Will, I needed to change that bank account to read Estate of John Smith, so I could continue to write checks for bills coming in.
Once probate was finished, then any money left in that account would go to whomever was named in his Will.
I was on my parents's account for years, but I never wrote checks on it until I took over their finances for them. Know that that money belongs to your mother, and she is trusting you not to abuse your position as a co-signer on the account. That money is to be used for her expenses and care, not yours.