Mother's right under guardian, and my visitation restricted. Any advice?

The POA must specifically give the POA’s the duty to restrict you from seeing your parent. The manager of POA cannot make things up not listed in POA. A Durable POA is for FINANCIAL reasons not for personal reasons generally speaking. To restrict you, could mean elder abuse toward your parent by the person who has the POA, bc the elderly person should have right to see his or her children when they want for healthy interactions and socialization. To prohibit such family to visit can be considered elder abuse toward your parent, isolating them from life and their own family which is abuse, if you are not a threat to your parent psychologically, financially, physically.

Power of attorneys are required to be notarized by an independent State licensed notary. Hence, they are NOT under “questionable circumstances” in the eyes of the Courts. They are fully valid. Opposing it will not work more than likely. So accept it.

Have POA handle everything listed in the POA. Have at your elderly parent’s expense mail all mail to him, handle all bills, have your parents taxes done. LY it on as he should be doing.

Don’t say you are doing this. Just do it. He’s POA after all. Or mail COD so he has to pay. be unable to correctly handle matters from another State. Forward all medical and online stuff also. So not state your opinion. Do not offer help. He’s the POA. He’s 100% responsible from the date the POA became effective. Look that date up. Some are immediately, others based on date two doctors certify that parent is unable to care for him or her. Get hours of that medical certification from local doctor.

if mother is still able to recognize her family, know her assets (like a house or jewelry) know consequences of her own estate planning decisions like a POA or will, have doctor sign a document saying mother is still able to handle own legal affairs and knows family and consequences of her decisions. Then have her sign with a notary a new Durable Power of Attorney to you and problem solved.

Or depending on working if. Urgent POA in your State, have her sign a new POA if she has not yet been certified by two doctors to be unable to handle her affairs. This two doctor requirment is in CA. So do a search for the Probate Code or Family Code laws online to see what your State’s requirements Rw to be deemed unable to care for oneself.

say as little as possible to your out od Atate relative. There is no legal requirment for you to tell him anything about your mother. No law says you must tell him and out of state relative who cannot practically help. But he also as current POA has no legal requirment to tell you anything he is doing either. He is to help your mother not you by law as a POA.

when you let him have to handle taxes, bills, he will be over whelmed and have to ask you to help him. That’s up to you. It’s his job as he accepted it by signing POA not yours. Don’t let him make you into his assistant bc he can charge the estate for his work and expenses as POA.

that’s a lot of valuable info to digest. First and foremost have mother sign new POA with effective date of immediately and to also manage her mail and online access and accounts as well as time she can be contacted by others and for how long so as not to exhaust her. Add these into the Durable POA.

If she is already been carried by doctors as unable to care for herself, it’s all over. He’s the POA so send him all the work for him to do and remind him to get her taxes done. He is permitted to designate you as a co-POA if she’s certified incompetent by two doctors. That’s up to you.

just enjoy your mothers company now. Have him hire maid and have him have groceries delivered, , hire meal delivery like meals on wheels and hire on home companion for her when you cannot be around. That’s his job. Don’t tell him prices unless he asks.

Good luck to you.

So your Mom HAS, then, chosen and appointed your brother as the POA, it seems to me? Is that correct?
It seems to me it would be better to accept that now.
You tell us in your latest update that your sister was "thrown out of her house" and your mom moved out from your house to live with your sister --likely because she saw the sister as needing her (moms are like that). Whether it is a mistake, "co-dependency" as you label it, or not, it was your mom's choice.
If you go to court do know that your mom will be appointed an attorney. She will make her choices of guardianship known to the court. And she will be listened to EVEN IF she is already diagnosed with dementia, and that's as it should be.
As you update us more and more we learn more that this is a very complicated ongoing family trauma--one we could never in a number of years comb out, and one we are getting one side of. And as I said before,(whether with grace or not, who knows) a whole lot of water under the bridge.
So again, I can only again caution you, in a court battle the money hemorrhages out. Take great care with that for your own sake. And in court, with two brothers and a sister at war over the fragility of one mom, the judge will often remove guardianship from all involved and assign guardianship to the state with a court appointed fiduciary. When you get to court I would refrain from labeling others with such terms as co-dependency, and etc. because judges frown upon people diagnosing others. I have found most completely devoid of grace (and that's the truth).
Whether you know it or not I wish your ENTIRE FAMILY the very best. It is a dreadful thing (and in fact a pet peeve of mine) when children war over the still living bodies of their parents, causing great pain to said parents when they are at their most helpless. It puts me in mind of those who came to the dying Catherine of Siena while she still breathed to collect relics from her still living body--a fingernail here, a drop of blood there.

****Clarifying statement: the guardianship is a temporary for 60 days until hearing unless named prior .

Sorry if this added to confusion of matter.

Unfortunately, as I said, earlier, there is not enough room, nor time to go into every minute, detail of the situation to gain a better understanding. That puts me in a position for you to read an awful lot and into this, and also make a lot of assumptions. I set myself up for that. I mistakenly came to this post as I have many times, reading other post, looking for guidance and hope and have seen the harsh ones the kind ones, the ones with Grace, the ones not so much. I hesitated to write one, because this is a very overwhelming complicated situation like many are, but did so because considering the situation as it was this morning, my emotions getting the best of me, I felt helpless and distraught no invaluable time I was losing with my mother. What I will tell you is every individual in this family, including the brother will tell you I’ve done more for her than anyone and still do. Made more sacrifices and still do. I’m the caregiver in the family have done so for many, including my grandparents and my brother, who spent nine weeks at SLU trauma Center. I don’t take a dime, I am single, limited income, and partial disability. My sister is with my mom do to the fact that she got kicked out of her home and my mom moved out of my home to try and take care of her. she was 48. I tried to discourage my mother from this choice, but as she is now, she is an adult and has a voice of her own, and that was her choice to do . My sister was able to work, and take care of herself. This became a codependent relationship. During this time, my mom fell and broke her femur. I was not told of this for some time, because my mom had chose to keep distance because she felt that I was being hard on my sister, and when my mom fell, she thought that would cause more of the same. My mom did not receive proper care during this time and my sister did not help with her therapy getting her around, etc. and my mom eventually became bedbound after many falls. When I did discover what had happened, the situation was not very good, and other family members had turned a blind eye, and not got involved. not really hard to do when they really weren’t visiting much anyway. I immediately took action, got involved, started working with her therapy going nourishment, food, etc. body lift, things were improving. I can’t tell you the things I saw and the state of things .Things were good for about three weeks until my sister blew up one day regarding giving my mom her meds and said she was done and proceeded to throw things. I stated she needed to stop or I will call the cops. I went into the other room where my mom was and close the door, hoping to protect her from the hostility called my brother, wasn’t able to reach him. I called him because it is his house and felt he should tell her can’t be doing this or you need to leave, etc. my sister ended up reaching him on the phone told him what she wanted. when he and I spoke, he decided that he told her he was giving her 30 days to move out, and I was to leave the premises until she moved out. This left my mom vulnerable again and without help. I raised many concerns about this which went on for days weeks, and into months following. No one seemed to care. My sister stayed and as now, you know, still is there. This occurred in November 1921 and I discussed with my brother the concerns what I saw, etc. he did not believe and said did not think my sister would do or was capable of anything that I was telling him. He reiterated he was giving her 30 days and he was going to start the process of putting mom in a nursing home. I told him that is not what she wants. She has the means to not be put into the nursing home and we should respect those wishes. Total disregard. Within two weeks, his name was on a durable POA. I found out 6 months later by accident. During that six months I had been blocked on the phone, banned from property,left out of holidays, no contact from family. Until I finally got thru on Easter cont’d

Matthew, I practiced as RN for years, was deeply involved with social workers. The "fights" we saw for guardianship years ago went to well over 10,000.00 with the "winner" getting to take these funds out of the elder's estate. More often for us, judges not wanting to play Solomon, not wanting to threaten to divide the baby, would give guardianship to the State. The state then appoints a licensed fiduciary who takes care of EVERYTHING at some cost to the estate, with no children having anything to say about anything.
It is interesting that Sister is taking care of Mom yet she has seemed to give guardianship to a son at war with another son. When the attorney says to you that you should make the decision about countering for guardianship do check in with him about costs. He will likely give you his hourly fee without giving you the facts that your Mom, your bro and you will have an attorney, and if you lose you might be paying for all of them. Just get all the facts, and then make your decision.
As I said, for me, I am on my knees begging to see my Mom accompanied by Sis or brother.
Good luck. And I sure hope you will update us. And I surely do hope that someone in all this mess is talking to Mom about what SHE might want.

As you say, an elder care attorney is involved. Nothing happens overnight here. Let the process work itself through.
Some of the players in this dilemma will have to provide documents. State your wishes with the attorney if you hired that person or state your wishes through Probate.
However you also state she is in Hospice or being considered. Her needed care may preceed going back home. If you do not want to be her guardian and brother id deemed not fit then the judge will assign her a guardian. That means the decision of hospice or housing will be decided by an outsider.

Just read this thread. What a confusing posting!

Where is your mother now? Is she living alone? Who is taking care of her?

Matthew,
You say in responses that your brother who is POA is not living near your Mom? Is that correct?
Who DOES live with your Mom?
And who is forbidding you from seeing your Mom currently, as it cannot be the brother if he is nowhere in sight (unless your Mom is in care currently and the facility has agreed to forbid your seeing her).
I can only suggest you see an elder law attorney.
I can only suggest you ask that attorney to intervene so that you are able to visit your Mom accompanied, agreeing to discuss with her nothing but your love for her and your support.
I suspect no one here can make head or tails of this very complicated situation; I know that I sure can't. You have our sympathy, but that doesn't help your situation.
After enlisting the help of APS, an elder law attorney, if there is no answer for you regarding all this, then I doubt there is help for you.
As I said, no one is put on hospice by some POA residing states away. Doctors order hospice. And hospice interviews all patients able to communicate with them, or the doctors and family member appointed by the patient him or herself or the powers of the courts and states. And if a patient improves on hospice (and many DO) then no one is happier than Hospice itself to pack their bags and leave the premises.
That's the simple truth. You can label it "snark" or anything else that you want to. But when someone tells me they are forbidden to see their own mother, then I want the reasons, because there are few siblings in this world evil enough to forbid the visit of a brother of theirs, a son of their mother, to visit the mother in her days on hospice. It doesn't make sense. There is a reason. There are things missing in the story. And that is my belief. Either there has been a whole lot of water flowing under the bridge over time here or your brother is about the first person around here to be truly evil enough to forbid a son bidding his Mom a loving goodbye.
As I said, I would throw myself upon the mercy of my brother. I would beg to see my mother. I would mention NONE of this to my mother and I would fill her mind with loving thoughts and support. I would agree to, indeed ASK TO, be accompanied on my visits with people who can insure I stick to my promises. And I would do all this on my knees if necessary to see my Mom. It's the only thing I can suggest to you.
If you know the hospice involved you may want to reach out, as your Mom's son, to the clergy and social workers there to mediate an accompanied visit with your mother. I believe they would encourage your brother to allow that.

Tell us what you understand about hospice.

It is not euthanasia.

There are several sides , views, etc., to a situation, agreed. I do my best to account it to accuracy to best of my abilities and state when I’m making guesses or opinions. That said, is there money involved? Sure. And my view is that’s it’s hers to be spent how she wants on her care and the care that she wants. Brother has a differing view. Brothers actions has raised suspicion but some of that is brought about by how he has managed the process. Also, because he and his wife are the ones that have the most debt and like to spend and are the most detached from my mother aside from the other brother. They have already removed valuables and assets that she had stated she wanted them to dispersed in certain ways so don’t intend to see those wishes of hers being honored either. He has done her taxes for last few years and is only one to have know what she had financially. She had me on her checking for many years because she lived with me and in event she ever needed me to write something for her it was set up. Never once did I ever nor did I ever know what was in that account. My interest in and for my mother is for her to have the best care, love and anything else she wanted and to help protect that and ensure she gets that. Unfortunately, even if that meant coming at odds with family that didn’t have those same intentions. Every other family member can and would attest to the care and love I have shown her and continue. I’m the one she has relied on. The one her parents asked to look out for her. That’s what I’m trying to do. At the same time, if legally I’m helpless in stopping my brother from putting hospice in motion however he has managed to get it, or if not done timely, I cannot tell you how it feels to be separated from her knowing she can leave this earth and I have had the time taken from me to love her one more time. There’s nothing on this earth worth that or can replace it. Not for me.

This is a long long story, and basically we are getting ONE SIDE of a very divided family story.
We cannot possible judge the situation from where we sit in our homes around the world.
If you wish to go to court in a guardianship know that it will cost you a minimum of 10,000. Know that your brother who is appointed POA for your mom will almost certainly win the case, OR that guardianship will be taken from you both and given to the state.
If you suspect mismanagement of your mother's estate, then you can see the DA, an attorney, or call APS. That is the limit of what you can do. Your brother has offered a quarterly accounting. Don't know about your state, but in California he would not have to give you ANYTHING whatsoever.
I don't see any specific questions for us throughout this, but it was long, and I may have missed them.
Nothing is so upsetting at end of life, for a senior, than divided siblings at war. I feel dreadful for your Mom. Normally I wish our OPs good luck. In this case I wish it for this mother.

JoAnn!!! You are on track with all kinds of questions that I too have had. She was not made aware of the court proceedings and did not go before a judge. Nor was my sister or myself. My other brother probably was because he is basically a lackey for my brother. We had regular care set up and she was getting all her needs met, without question. Even in doctors notes how she is being well cared for from appointment earlier in week.
i saw paperwork, brother had attorney who was the one they paid for to have the poa drawn up for my mom to sign in Nov ‘21. It shows my moms name and an ad litem assigned to her which is the person I said who is one of my uncles best friends and has not been to the house to see my other, etc., but also the uncle who was on poa paperwork that my mom found out after the fact and had no idea and was “pissed” and told her elder care advocate so and that she had no idea of it. She had not even been left a legal copy of the poa and my sister had to request it and later realized was given one original and one copy ( property original and health non original ). Also, just an interesting note, there was attorneys business cards places all over the house ( just recently found one in fact ). My sister said she sure dint put them out anywhere and my mom has been bed ridden…
Ma doesn’t have demitasse nor been diagnosed. Has exceptional long term memory. Short term at times depends on what it’s in regards to and that’s pretty recent. Some contributing factors are when there’s lack of socialization
/ stimulation, just waking up, stress , such as when my brother is around or she goes to doc appts
Financially, brother says we can request a report regarding man’s finances quarterly. He is allllowed to take a salary and the ad litem gets paid also. He charges my ma rent and has for three years but does not claim income . He’s a CPA.

Just read your response to Barb. I don't understand why a Judge would not ask for updated reports on your Mom. So Mom did have representation...was she at the hearing. Were he other children at the hearing to contest?

Does your Mom have Dementia? Does brother feel she is not getting the care she needs? I guess u have a lawyer now so brother is camping out because his guardianship is kind if in hold?

Sorry, your post was a little confusing.

First, Mom has to assign POA. That should have been the sibling caring for her, not a son who lives states away. Yes, you can download forms and have Mom sign but u also need a witness/s and notary. Best way is thru a lawyer. How did brother get Mom to sign off on anything states away.

Guardianship has to be done in the County she lives in. She also needs to be made aware, by letter, that there are proceedings. She then goes before a Judge and pleads her case. If Mom is competent to make informed decisions and shows she is getting care needed, then guardianship will not be granted. Her other children can contest it to. Your brother would have had to have documentation from doctors saying Mom was not competent to make her own decisions and and wasn't getting care needed. You need to ask brother what court signed off he was guardian. You may need a lawyer of your own to dispute it. To see if gusrdianship is on the up and up. If so, I would then say Mom had no notice of it and was not there to defend herself.

The bed sore. Doctors do not advise Hospice unless they feel its needed. They are really not there that much. But a nurse well versed in woundcare should be there. Should be checking that wound regularly. Bed sores arecserious. You are getting someone to bathe Mom. The access to equipment. A Nurse checking in.

If Mom is competent and brother is upsetting her, she can ask him to leave. Guardian or not he does not have to live with her. I would also like to see the papers making him guardian. Would like to see where a Judge signed off and in what court. Mom had a legal right to be at the hearing and her other children with her to contest. He also needed a lawyer. If he thinks POA means guardian, he is wrong. Again, Mom if is competent then she can revoke a POA.

Does Mom have money that brother feels he is entitled to. Guardianship does not give him the right to spend it anyother way then on Mom. He had to report yearly to the state and show that her money is going towards her care.

I think you need a lawyer to represent Mom and demanding that brother provide proof of guardianship. He can research and if legit claim that Mom was not informed of a court date and was not represented. If Mom does not want brother there, lawyer can request that he leave.

So...

Your Mom is 86-yrs old, is living in the state of Illinois in the home of one of her adult children. The PoA (your brother) has now moved in and seeking to get hospice set up for her.

If your brother is the only name that appears in the PoA document, then I don't know why there needs to be agreement from all 4 siblings for any of her care to move forward? If this is something your Mom expressed only verbally, then I don't think this would hold up in court (but IL law may be different from other states). It is causing all sorts of discord and not helping your Mom's situation.

The fear of going into a good facility is, IMHO, completely blown out of proportion and is probably based on memories of terrible nursing homes of the past. Today's facilities are often amazing nice and many provide outstanding care, even when residents are on Medicaid, like my own MIL. So, I'm speaking out of personal experience.

FYI, my MIL was put on hospice when she got covid and after 4 weeks she fully recovered and is doing just great now. No longer on hospice, back in her regular room in LTC enjoying the social interaction with the staff and others, going to activities and events, getting all the medical attention she needs. Just saying that facility care is not the end of the world and your Mom may benefit from it.

If your brother's PoA is now legally activated, this must mean your Mother has a diagnosis of memory/cognitive incapacity to manage her own affairs. If you think your brother got the PoA in an illegal way, then you will need to prove this in court, and your Mother may then need to be brought before a judge to prove this one way or another. You may need to pursue guardianship for your Mother but if the judge sees a bunch or irrational in-fighting in your family, the judge may decide to assign a neutral party as her guardian. It happens. So think long and hard as you struggle against your brother rather than fighting him.

Consider a court-appointed family mediator to work out a solution that is in your Mom's best interests and is not onerous to your brother who is the legal PoA (as far as is known).

Your brother could not have become guardian without a court hearing.

Your mom would have been appointed a guardian ad litem and she would have had legal representation.

Cont’d…
I have four siblings to be in agreement to proceed. Things came to a halt. Meanwhile, after ma, mom got home she was in good spirits thriving everything was normal, and it seemed like the hospice thing was premature, especially based upon what they were saying. I reached out to her primary caregiver, and expressed what I am writing and said, at this point I would rather pursue her healing and care and not hospice at this time, because that can be brought in Later, if need be. That is what has been going on since my brother in the other state has been though trying to still push the hospice and trying to dictate and delegate what we are supposed to do like we are his worker bees or this is some kind of a coup or take over. We have continued to take care of her here, and she has been thriving even until this past week up until Saturday. She her most recent visit from home health. He came in on Saturday with a suitcase in a cot, and said he was moving in. With him he brought in paperwork stating he was now her guardian. My mother has not been asked. She has not been told what is going on. Every time my brother comes around she shuts down and has anxiety. Also when she goes to the hospital because she fears something is going to be used to put her in a nursing home and he represents that she has shut down will not drink, will not eat. It is day two. She is not drinking. Her breathing is become labored. It is affecting her greatly. He has restricted me from the home. telling me I cannot come on his property. There is no legal action banning me so I am seeking advisement and an attorney to get visitation but time is ticking. He has called in hospice. My sister is still in the home and trying to care for her since she has quit drinking her vitals have become erratic other signs that so she needs care immediately she called 911 and my brother refused the ambulance. He is running and basing all this on an excerpt from that doctors report from early on disregarding the progress, and the notes of the doctor sent. I’m working feverishly with the doctors and trying to get the paperwork and everything to back the progress up. My concern is her physical well-being, the time isn’t moving rapidly and at 86 years old she doesn’t have it. She would rather take herself out and then go into a nursing home. I don’t understand how if someone can show that someone is thriving and improving that they can come in with a non-recent excerpt and override and get this done and take away my rights to see my mother, especially if you’re going to basically accelerate or put her to death and not allow me to see her. You’re taking away her rights in mine and the doors closing quickly. i’m praying for guidance and peace and I’m so scared. If anyone would have any suggestion on something that can be done or even any encouragement, it is appreciated.

You give a lot of details but more info is needed:

- how old is your Mom?
- what state does she reside in?
- where is she currently living (receiving care when not in hospice or hospital)?
- does she have a diagnosis of memory or cognitive impairment?
- does she have any other medical/health problems besides the malnourishment and pressure sores?
- who is currently her legal guardian: is it the state? Or does brother still have active PoA?
- what is the specific question you wish to ask... is it to find out what your rights are for visiting your Mom?