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Different problems to deal with here imo.... 1st, So is anyone, you or a cousin, DPOA for Auntie? And if so, has the POA been registered at Hinds or Madison Co courthouse? I’m assuming this is in Jackson or Ridgeland area. For MS law, for extra fun in all this, POAs are required to be recorded to be considered valid. If nobody is recorded DPOA, Auntie is kinda on her own to make decisions - even beyond bad ones - as nobody has legal standing to step in to try to change things. Someone would need to seek guardianship over Auntie if she won’t do a POA and guardianship needs an atty to do.
If there is a valid POA, they as her POA need to get a elder law atty meeting asap to deal with this. None of this is at all a DIY. MPB has a weekly on air show “In Legal Terms” and there’s a couple of NAELA level of elder law attorneys who are guests on it regularly. You can google MPB and read up on old shows to find their names.
2nd - property value can be wildly variable. I’m in New Orleans and have clients in MS from Oxford to Biloxi, land value can vary. Right now there’s land fronting Hwy 90 that you can’t give away in far west Hancock Co and then land 5 minutes away 300k in Waveland. Old Discovery Bay “waterfront” totally worthless in Harrison Co, yet M+ land in the Pass, 10 minutes away.
That 30k could be FMV aka fair market value. What you need to do imho is try to determine how far off from assessor value sale price was.
What was the last tax assessor placed value on the parcel? You should be able to go online to Co tax assessor records and find this pretty easily by Aunties name. When you find them print it up and make sure to pay attention to the PPIN as you need that PPIN # for part 2 of your Nancy Drew/Veronica Mars detective work.
For part 2, you run the PPINs on properties adjacent and all around Aunties land to see their taxasssessor value. You don’t need to know owners name per se, cause you run the search by the PPIN. You should also be able to run a on line viewable plat on the area as well. For the plat, you check off wanting dimensions, elevation, etc. If the courthouse records has in ROW (right of way) or easements as something recorded on the plat, you want that too. Why? Cause if MDOT has an easement on Aunties land, it’s value will suck. And I am being super nice in describing this. MDOT is the all powerful OZ, personally I’d never buy any property that MDOT has an easement over.
So once you’ve done part 2, you can get a pretty good take on if the 30k was a legit value for what her land was. If it’s legit, end of story. If not, it needs an attorney to deal with this. Not a DIY.
H'mmmm - just thinking, this leads to a question for the forum's go-to Medicaid experts.
Suppose this lady, sometime next year, were to apply for Medicaid. What would be their view of the sub-market land deal assuming the buyer had no personal connection with her and that the deal does indeed represent a hypothetical loss of some $87K?
CountryMouse - I don’t think MS Medicaid would take too much time to deal with the what if’s on a rural land sale if sold at arms length. Caseworkers have their hands full with juggling “at need”. It’s a poor state across all categories.
Buyer may not be a snake. The land at higher price in another part of the county, it’s under 3k acre. 12 hectares to you. Pretty cheap, probably area has factors that make it undesirable, like not irrigated. Fronting highway isn’t necessarily always a positive if theres no to code egress. For decent pasture, you need several acres per cattle unit, really you need sections for cattle unless land is spectacularly lush. 30 acres isn’t big enough either to ranch or rent for pasture.
Allie - if family is concerned about the property, why didn’t someone have it appraised & do offer based on that to buy land from her?
Oh dear. On the face of it, your elderly aunt got a raw deal.
Unfortunately, unless your aunt is no longer in possession of her mental faculties, she entered into a contract and that's that. Whoever bought the land must be feeling very pleased with himself - the snake.
Is this going to cause her any future problems? Do you have any reason to believe that your aunt is mentally incapacitated?
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
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I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
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APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
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APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
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This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
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You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
1st, So is anyone, you or a cousin, DPOA for Auntie?
And if so, has the POA been registered at Hinds or Madison Co courthouse? I’m assuming this is in Jackson or Ridgeland area. For MS law, for extra fun in all this, POAs are required to be recorded to be considered valid. If nobody is recorded DPOA, Auntie is kinda on her own to make decisions - even beyond bad ones - as nobody has legal standing to step in to try to change things. Someone would need to seek guardianship over Auntie if she won’t do a POA and guardianship needs an atty to do.
If there is a valid POA, they as her POA need to get a elder law atty meeting asap to deal with this. None of this is at all a DIY. MPB has a weekly on air show “In Legal Terms” and there’s a couple of NAELA level of elder law attorneys who are guests on it regularly. You can google MPB and read up on old shows to find their names.
2nd - property value can be wildly variable.
I’m in New Orleans and have clients in MS from Oxford to Biloxi, land value can vary. Right now there’s land fronting Hwy 90 that you can’t give away in far west Hancock Co and then land 5 minutes away 300k in Waveland. Old Discovery Bay “waterfront” totally worthless in Harrison Co, yet M+ land in the Pass, 10 minutes away.
That 30k could be FMV aka fair market value. What you need to do imho is try to determine how far off from assessor value sale price was.
What was the last tax assessor placed value on the parcel? You should be able to go online to Co tax assessor records and find this pretty easily by Aunties name. When you find them print it up and make sure to pay attention to the PPIN as you need that PPIN # for part 2 of your Nancy Drew/Veronica Mars detective work.
For part 2, you run the PPINs on properties adjacent and all around Aunties land to see their taxasssessor value. You don’t need to know owners name per se, cause you run the search by the PPIN. You should also be able to run a on line viewable plat on the area as well. For the plat, you check off wanting dimensions, elevation, etc. If the courthouse records has in ROW (right of way) or easements as something recorded on the plat, you want that too. Why? Cause if MDOT has an easement on Aunties land, it’s value will suck. And I am being super nice in describing this. MDOT is the all powerful OZ, personally I’d never buy any property that MDOT has an easement over.
So once you’ve done part 2, you can get a pretty good take on if the 30k was a legit value for what her land was.
If it’s legit, end of story.
If not, it needs an attorney to deal with this. Not a DIY.
Suppose this lady, sometime next year, were to apply for Medicaid. What would be their view of the sub-market land deal assuming the buyer had no personal connection with her and that the deal does indeed represent a hypothetical loss of some $87K?
Buyer may not be a snake. The land at higher price in another part of the county, it’s under 3k acre. 12 hectares to you. Pretty cheap, probably area has factors that make it undesirable, like not irrigated. Fronting highway isn’t necessarily always a positive if theres no to code egress. For decent pasture, you need several acres per cattle unit, really you need sections for cattle unless land is spectacularly lush. 30 acres isn’t big enough either to ranch or rent for pasture.
Allie - if family is concerned about the property, why didn’t someone have it appraised & do offer based on that to buy land from her?
Unfortunately, unless your aunt is no longer in possession of her mental faculties, she entered into a contract and that's that. Whoever bought the land must be feeling very pleased with himself - the snake.
Is this going to cause her any future problems? Do you have any reason to believe that your aunt is mentally incapacitated?
Has the deal closed?