Spouse wants to move abroad again, despite father with severe Parkinson's. Should I leave my parents or should I separate?

Your marriage is already ruined due to the fact that your wife is unwilling to compromise. Marriage is a team effort that requires working together to achieve an end you BOTH agree upon. What if the tables were turned and you were issuing your wife an ultimatum, forcing her to move away from her elderly parent who had a serious disease? How would she feel about that? She doesn't seem to have empathy to be able to see how important it is for you to be there for your father and also keep your marriage together, at least for the sake of your children.

You already gave up your job once and left the US when you didn't want to, if you do it again, you may live to regret it once the resentment kicks in. Then the marriage is compromised AGAIN, even more than it already is!

It sounds like some marriage counseling is in order, if, of course, your wife is willing to see that it's necessary. If not, you have some very serious thinking to do about your future and what you want it to look like.

I'm sorry you're being forced into a corner like this. My husband and I just had a talk last night about teamwork and how vital it is to make a marriage work. Wishing you the best of luck with all you have on your plate.

Your marriage takes priority, especially since you have minor children. Is it possible your wife wants to move because you are spending too much time/effort/attention with your parents? Will your father ever be able to transition into a care facility once he can't live on his own (and if he's still married, it may become too much for his spouse to handle)? Will he have the funds for it? Would he be willing, or is he "assuming" you into the caregiving role? As his disease progresses, if he is able and willing to move into a care community he may get better daily care and have more social exposure than being a prisoner in his own home and having his son orbit around him for all his needs. Aging-in-place sounds romantic but often is anything but, especially for the adult children caregivers.

That being said, being given "ultimatums" by your wife isn't healthy. Maybe a few meetings with a marriage counselor will help objectively put things in perspective for the both of you. Your anxiety and sadness are real and understandable, but so is your wife's expectation of not being forever tethered to your parents. A counselor can help sort through it so you both can (hopefully) come to a unified decision.

I would suggest before making any decisions maybe you meet with a therapist - together if possible.

To me family and values are priority and so I understand why you would want to be closer to your family as they age and or are sick. Time and memories together is something one can never get back.

But there also has to be boundaries so that everyone matters and everyone gets time - I know this as I’m still trying to figure it out and find a balance for myself in regard to my moms care and my other relationships (that did suffer after moms stroke). There has to be a balance - and without knowing more or both sides (as there is always 2 sides) I would just suggest before making any big decisions to see if your spouse would do therapy with you in hopes to find a better way for all including your children. Best wishes.

lealonnie1 is right. Your marriage is already ruined. It seems to me like your wife is putting this impossible ultimatum on you because she doesn't want to be married to you anymore. By doing it this way, it lets her get out of your marriage and also gives her a way to put the blame on you. She'll use "work" as an excuse for going back to Thailand because that's where she wants to be. It's where she wants to be, not where she has to be. Remember that.
Stay in the United States if that's where you want to be. Don't stay here for your parents and don't become their caregiver. Stay for yourself. I don't know you, but it sure seems to me like you're probably the one who made most or all the sacrifices and compromises in your marriage. That's not fair.
Maybe speak to a divorce lawyer. Also remind your wife that the kids are American citizens and you are their father. That should maybe deter her from getting cute on certain things. Good luck to you.

I'm pretty sure you would be getting different advice if you were a woman posting the same dilemma, you need to be there for you children, their needs 100% take precedence over those of your parents.

Your description makes your wife come off as a ball busting alpha witch and you as a milquetoast doormat, do you feel that is an accurate representation of your life? If so then maybe some counselling could help you set healthier boundaries in respect to both your wife and your parents.

Many elders dealing with aged and end of life problems do not have children to help in there care. I think, if you have a strong marriage and children, that your duty of care is to your family. However, it isn't the choice of one spouse to decide where you live, with the passing of ultimatums being the norm. There are MANY things to consider, including cost of moving, cost of living, education for children, jobs and etc.
I would suggest counseling with a psychologist to help with your decision making. You will have to get your parents used to accessing the community for care help, just as they would if they didn't have children; you would have to spend any vacation time, almost certainly, returning to check on your parents. Lots and lots to consider when any big move is considered, whether out of country or within. Best of luck in your decision making. Try not to fight and to argue but to sit quietly and make lists of all things to consider for BOTH of you and for your CHILDREN and extended family.

You wrote that your wife "wants to move abroad again." Does that mean back to Thailand? Or, does she want to live like a nomad, jumping from country to country?

Were your children already born when you moved to Thailand? Were they born in Thailand or since being back in the U.S.?

I moved to be closer to and help care for my in-laws. I know how difficult it can be even when there is enough money to pay for in-home services for aging parents. I think you need to take a good look at your parents' finances to get an idea of what they can and cannot afford were you to move abroad again.

Do you already have DPOA both medical and financial for your parents? In my opinion, it is a bad idea for anyone to take on the responsibility of caregiving without having the authority to do so.

Never married person here, but for what it's worth, why would a person want to drag others across the world without discussion or compromise with the significant other? Not only that, but what about the kids? Would they gain from this move? I don't know the state of your relationship, but giving up jobs, family, and friends based on the whim of someone else seems a bit abusive.

This is tough, but I keep coming back to your original question. “Should I leave my parents or should I separate?”

For my husband and I, we really only have one dealbreaker - cheating. Every other problem we come across, we work through. So, I suppose what I’m asking you is, is your wanting to stay a dealbreaker for your wife? Cannot you not talk about it and say that you will go in 5 years instead, regardless of your parent’s condition?

If the only thing keeping your marriage together is that you do whatever she says, you have bigger problems. For a strong marriage to work, you both have to be honest with your feelings, and you need to COMPROMISE. We kind of approach it like, “Who does it matter more to?” Like, going on a vacation - you want to go to Bahamas, whereas she wants to go to Italy. Do you talk about it and figure out who it matters more to? If you would consider leaving your wife and your kids to stay with your parents, I’m guessing it matters to you A LOT.

Best advice: search for the compromise. You can both be winners here, instead of both being losers (and I mean that in the nicest way).

My sister was the breadwinner, and she made the decisions. The guy picked up and moved twice for her work. They had a child born 10 years ago, but a divorce happened. Because of the child, she has to basically subsidize him until this child turns 18, which meant moving him again when she got her latest job, as they share joint custody.

Joint custody is seriously a calendar with dates on the week marked out. How's she supposed to do this in Thailand? And if you've been in the househusband/lower income producing spouse role, then she'll have to pay for all that while keeping the kids here.

I thought some states have a stipulation that in divorce children cannot leave the state of residence without approval of both parents (in a joint custody situation). I know you don’t want to divorce, but my guess is your wife wants to uproot because she does not want to be dealing with your parents.

This isn't all that unusual where one spouse wants to move somewhere, say out of state, and the other feels obligated to their ailing parent(s).

What's a problem here is the "ultimatum" and "we are different people" talk. I.e. your spouse is playing hardball in the negotiation. The talk should really be softer and of a problem-solving nature. So, as other people have written, there are other problems besides whether to move to Thailand or not.

People do get frustrated in marriages because they just don't know how to negotiate properly. The best book I've read on negotiating is Getting to Yes by Robert Fisher and William Ury. See if your wife would be willing to read and study the book with you.

Wikipedia has an article about the book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getting_to_Yes

There seem to be many sides to this dilemma.
Your wife may be thinking you should all get on with your lives as your parents have had theirs to a degree. And how many more years will you be tied to them for. Many children already live across the other side of the world from their parents.
I agree with her to an extent but also don't understand how a wife can be so selfish and domineering. It needs serious input from You and her for such a huge decision.
My mum has lived with me for 5 years. I gave up my life for her and am very unhappy. She is 95 and could go on for many more years. I would love to move away but can't, and I would love a normal life again before it's too late for me!!
If your wife won't at least have an adult conversation with you about the pros and cons and take your feelings into account then there may be deeper issues that need addressing. Good luck.

Don't let the kids leave the country under any circumstances. It sounds like she wants them out of the US before she files for divorce in a friendlier (to her) jurisdiction. And it does sound like she is orchestrating how best to divorce you.

You moved before and your wife should be more understanding and should not be giving you an ultimatum.
Is there any chance your parents would be able to make the move with you?

Would Wife do this to her parents too? If so. Look out for when you get old and need help because I would say she wouldn't be there to help when the time comes.

Don't make the Choice because you don't have a Choice, choosing between you parents or your wife and kids aren't a choice.

Tell wife at this time you feel you have to stay here but will move later after your parents pass.

Also tell wife that you Will Not Allow her to take the Children Abroad.

If she feels the need to divorce you, that's her choice but she'll be going abroad Alone.

Prayers

What a difficult situation and I can only toss out things to think about. First of all, am I correct that you and your wife come from completely different cultures and thus think very different from one another. If your father has parkinson's, why is he not in a facility being cared for? This would leave you free to be with your family. If possible, can you get caretakers for your parents? If you go to Thailand, would you be able to come back here and see them or would time, money and distance be too great a factor? I know the problems involved with taking care of elderly people and not everyone is able to mentally and physically do this work. Ask yourself where you would be happier - with your parents or your spouse? Second, ask if this marriage has a good foundation and should it be continued. You need a good attorney and a therapist to work with you to help you make some decisions. Good luck.

Unfortunately, it appears your wife may be using the situation for control. When someone starts with an ultimatum, "choose me or them" rather than compromise, they usually have an intended plan. In the era of COVID, such a move is not a wise decision for your children. Her insecurity (jealousy?) may cause you to make a decision for your parents care that you will regret later, ultimately destroying what already appears a shaky marriage. You have my sympathy.

I am surprised you are having this dilemma at all. The idea that you would think about letting go of your marriage and in particular your children, to care for your parents, sounds a bit strange to me.
I would consider taking a good look at your relationship with your wife before deciding anything. Is it possible you have often put your parents first? It is good to look after our parents but how will you feel after they are gone and you have let your children go in the mean time? How will your children feel about that as they grow up learning they did not come first?
You have not said anything much about your relationship with your wife and why she might feel like this but your first step might be to get to the bottom of why she is unhappy and then make decisions on how to compromise.
Good luck.

You don't want to "ruin your marriage," but it sounds like your wife is not fully in this partnership. She is being selfish and manipulative. You do not want to lose contact with your children, but separating from a wife with her attitude might be to your benefit.

If it were not for your parents' situation, would you be willing or even eager to go abroad?
If the answer is yes, then this is an excruciating decision for you.
Your first priority is your children.
What is best for them?
I think you really need to see a counselor. This is a tough, tough call for you.
If your wife will go with you, that might give you two an opportunity to find a way to save your marriage

Save your marriage.. My husband and I have been together 11 years. We spent the first 8 constantly taking care of first his mom and stepdad then his dad and stepmom, between being caregivers and working we had no time for each other. Both sets of parents passed 3 years ago and shortly after my husband was diagnosed with Cerebellar Ataxia with Parkinsonism, it progressed quickly so now he is wheelchair bound as the right side of his body is completely useless and his left side is at 50%.

Looking back we realize we should have lived our lives, his parents had had theirs, they had travelled, lived and loved, we never had or will have that again. If he is in a place that takes care of him you have done your job as a son. Zoom him and talk, visit him when you can, but live YOUR life.

Your spouse and children are your #1 responsibility.

My mother is 80 with Parkinson’s and beyond what her children can care for, the best thing you can do for everyone is set them up well before you go.

The truth is your not free to care for your parents, marriage isn’t optional when circumstances change. You’ll need/want that relationship too as you grow older.

Not to mention kids shouldn’t come from a broken home bc their grandparents got old.

They are watching you make life decisions, please go have more wonderful years and delegate senior care to the professionals. If you do it yourself doesn’t make it better if you’re sacrificing your own family.

Good luck on this difficult decision.

Have you considered living apart for the duration and stay married? It's not ideal, but none of us here are in ideal circumstances (it's the nature of the beast). My dad was in the military for 22 years, until I was 16. Twice he went to Vietnam and was gone for a year each time; my mom and two sisters and I managed just fine, although we did miss him, naturally. We do what we have to do and don't wallow in how things are. I hope this doesn't come across as harsh or mean. I hope and pray that you can come to an understanding or agreement about this situation, whatever it is. My therapist asked me once: How would I feel if I were gone when my mom passes? That was helpful for me. This is not an easy situation. My best to you and your family.

How frequently do you see your parents? How involved in their care are you? How much has your wife had to compensate for your absence in caring for them or actually had to do for them? What about *her* parents? Are you going to move to where they live and spend a decade taking care of them in their old age?

Being the person who has been taking care of my mother for 20 years and seeing the immense sacrifice my husband has made because of it, I would NEVER pick my mother over my husband and children.

You don’t give any details about your parents’ current state of care, whether you have siblings and other salient details which are very germane to this decision. You need to go talk with a therapist and hash it all out there, but the fact that you’re even thinking of choosing your dying father over your marriage and children is mind boggling. If my husband told me we needed to move, I’d make sure my mother had appropriate placement and I’d pack and go.

I find it strange you said you might not be able to see your kids. Why did you take that threat? Your wife doesn't hold more power than you to steal your children and go back to Thailand bc she wants to.
First thing I would do is find out your rights thru a lawyer without saying anything to anyone. You need to know your legal rights. She certainly doesn't care about your legal rights. Did you marry here or there? Are kids US citizens? A parent cannot just take off with the kids and tell the other parent too bad for you. You want to stay behind, Im going. WRONG WRONG. Why are you tolerating that?
She sounds narcissistic. Seems she can't make up her mind where she wants to live.
I think it is cheaper there.
Perhaps you can put things in place with your parents first. Get poa and end of life decisions in order first. Do you have any family around to help? If things go bad, you will probably have to fly back to see to things.
Maybe you can get them into assisted living now? What do they want?
I know some people get sucked into daily care, but that can be very draining if they have personality disorders, or are difficult people.
I don't know why you don't get a say in your marriage and that her needs trump yours, or she threatens to leave you and says she's taking your kids and you won't get to see them. She has no right to take them or withold them from you. There are laws against that. Why do you not know this?
Marriage takes 2 people. One person doesn't get all their needs met, and the other gets walked on. I can't believe you ate tolerating ultimatum like that.
I'd get a lawyer 1st thing just to know my rights in case you come home and she is gone, and all you did was go check on your parents. She obviously doesn't care to much about her marriage if she is threatening you bc she doesn't get her way.
Why does she get her way, and you get no say? Wow

You do not have a marriage if your wife is not willing to compromise. There will be other ultimatums until the day arrives when she makes one you just can not do.

You and she will get old some day. What are you teaching your children? And if you suddenly got ill - sounds like she would ditch you to do what she wants..

Sorry to say this but your marriage has already ended a long time ago, you just failed to see it for what it is. Move on with your parents and see a divorce atty ASAP

when you marry it is said, "you leave your parents and cling to each other" BUT there are times that when parents are old and sickly, a spouse must realize their husband or wife has an duty to the parents. If the spouse truly loved the other they would realize that! Couldn't the wife wait a while, does she have to move right at this moment.

Ok, this may seem harsh for the crybabies, but ill just throw it out there. The wife doesnt auto get the kids in this day and age, so you can keep them and she can hit the road. If she makes more then you get spousal and child support. If you want to care for your dad in his end of life stage and you can handle it until you cant anymore “do it”. Seek out in home care even if just for a couple hours a week to help ease in care by others, and a little free time for you and the kids. Teach your kids compassion, patience, kindness and love. Its all that really matters in this life.

The husband is, by God's Word, the head of his household. Give your wife a few ultimations and Trust God. She has to decide if she wants to move to Thailand and raise 2 small children by herself. Don't even THINK ABOUT GIVING THEM UP!!! She is manipulating you for her selfish reasons. If she goes, tell her she's going ALONE!!