The NH urged me to get an emergency guardianship last month because my mom was trying to arrange for a ride home. I told them to go ahead and have the Dr. do the expert evaluation. The evaluation was done on 7/12, but wasn't put into the mail until 17 days later and then took 3 days to get to me. That left me 10 days to use it before it expires. After reading it, the form said guardianship was necessary, but it wasn't filled out completely. I called the NH to see if some test results (they suspected she has C-diff) were back yet, and to ask if was normal to have blanks on the determination. Three days go by and no call back. So, I called a different extension and had them transfer me, and like magic she answered. Her exact words were, "we're not allowed to talk to you". I asked why that was and she said my mom requested that I not know her condition. I asked her if she read my POA (which gives me rights to her medical records). I explained that it can only be undone in writing and has to be filed in our county's recorders office, then a copy given to them. I also asked her if she read the Dr's evaluation that said my mom was not capable of making decisions. She said she had NOT read either. My mom's atty quit, she doesn't want anymore to do with her because she's such a problem. I'm at a loss how to deal with this situation.

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The nursing home has very likely applied for conservatorship/guardianship over your mother for both her person and her finances.
Go down to the probate court in the town where her nursing home is in. They will tell you if such a petition was filed because that is considered public knowledge.
Then you bring your POA documentation and have a consultation with a lawyer. Tell them that the nursing home is not abiding by your legal authority for your mother. The lawyer will advise you.
The nursing home my father was in pulled something similar to this. They also petitioned for conservatorship/guardianship and did not inform me. They're not obligated to inform a POA. I only found out because a friend of mine was working at the nursing home he was in at the time and overheard the conversation a lawyer and a social worker were trying to have with my father about signing some paperwork. She said nothing to them, but called me straight away. I went to the probate court to check on this. Low and behold the petition was filed. You should check with the probate court once a week to make sure the NH isn't pulling anything underhanded because they will. Talk to a lawyer too.
Helpful Answer (13)
Reply to BurntCaregiver
Grandmaofeight Aug 13, 2022
Why would a Nursing Home pull this kind of action? This is scary
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Sounds like a giant run around to me!

The POA should override mom's wishes.
So should this emergency 'guardianship' the NH told you to get. You get it, now they're telling you they're 'not allowed to talk to you', so why did they tell you to get an emergency guardianship in the first place? For sh*ts and giggles or what????

The NH has an obligation to READ your POA and to then stand by what it says in the POA: that it can only be undone in writing etc. They then need to stand by your medical POA and give you the information you request. I suggest you threaten them with calling your lawyer to intervene on your behalf, and then having him bill THEM for his services since you have LEGAL POA and they are sending you on a run around for 'emergency guardianship' which was not needed to begin with, and are now not enforcing your POA.

Your mother is a problem-child, obviously, but the NH should not be bowing down to her demands and histrionics before they consult your POA which is on file with them. THAT is the prevailing document that tells them what to do, not your mother's mood of the moment.

Best of luck!!
Helpful Answer (11)
Reply to lealonnie1
Rosie365 Aug 6, 2022
Right? In the real world, everything you said makes sense. I'm starting to think they are becoming like their residents. I've consulted a few people and they all think I should jump to suing them. I'm jut going to remove her and place her somewhere else. That will end the problem. And the POA specifically says I can place and move her to any hospital or facility as I deem necessary for her best care.
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Gee, Rosie. Have you considered walking away and letting the State take guardianship?

I don't play these kinds of games. If people want my help, it's on my terms.
Helpful Answer (7)
Reply to BarbBrooklyn


Nursing homes pull the petitioning for conservatorship without informing a family or the person with a resident's POA all the time.
They do this because they do not like when someone else is in charge of a resident's money and assets. They want to take everything all at once then put the resident on Medicaid.
They tried pulling this **** on me because as POA for my father, I refused to give them access to his bank accounts and income. I insisted that they send a written bill monthly and I would pay it.
During his nursing home stay, he was often admitted to the hospital for three days or longer. When that happens and a person still had Medicare days left for the year, then Medicare will pay (people can get up to 100 days covered in a nursing home).
What the nursing home does then is double-dip.They collect from Medicare and secondary insurance (when possible) then in cash-pay from the resident. So they get paid twice. They tried cleaning out my father's bank account when he first arrived and he was fully covered by insurance.
No way was I allowing any of that highway robbery. I scrutinized every bill and expense. During the times that insurance was paying, I was not. They were only paid what they were owed and not a penny more. That's why I was sued for conservatorship and their petition was denied by the judge.
@Lulu376 anyone can can petition for conservatorship/guardianship over an elderly or handicapped person who is unable to care for themselves, The court informs the person who conservatorship/guardianship is being applied for. So my father who had a massive stroke and was in a nursing home was "informed" of it. They deliberately didn't inform me the POA, because by me not knowing I wouldn't have shown up for the court hearing. If the pther party doesn't show up (or send a lawyer to represent them) they lose by default. Nursing homes pull this all the time. I know at least a dozen or more families that a nursing home pulled this on.
Always keep in regular touch with the probate court if you have someone in a nursing home if you haven't given them control of the finances.
Helpful Answer (7)
Reply to BurntCaregiver

"The Discharge Director", awww, now it makes sense. She is in short-term rehab at the NH and is not a permanent resident. The NH won't be getting paid anymore from Medicare once she is out of rehab and was most likely hoping to be able to send her on her merry way based on her statements. You upended their plans when you showed them you aren't 1) allowing her to return home and 2) got her declared incapacitated under the POA by their very own doctor and 3) proved her confabulations are their problem. Based on the time factor alone if the money is there, it makes sense to get emergency guardianship to move her to a different facility with the least amount of hassle moving forward. Or do what Barb posted and walk away if so inclined.
Helpful Answer (6)
Reply to ainorlando
Cover999 Aug 8, 2022
This NH must be the exception to the norm for many. Many NHs would actually encourage the patient/resident to make it their permanent "new home". I know they encourage this in the area I'm in. That way, NH protects itself from losing out to the competition.
POA is only applicable if the individual is unable to act on their own. Your mother's rights have not been terminated so she is her own voice. Get an elder attorney. File for emergency guardianship. Do the legal dance that will allow you to act on her behalf.
Helpful Answer (5)
Reply to msl50birm

Glad you are working to get her out of there - they do not sound professional at all.
Sounds like you are on top of the PoA, but I would still consult an Elder Law Attorney for yourself to make sure all the ducks are in a row. And what kind of PoA is it? Does it need to be triggered? Or is it a Durable?
And not sure where you are, but do you have her Health Care Proxy? I would think that would factor into all this as well. Feeling for you in all this - Good luck!
Helpful Answer (4)
Reply to dec104

I know this post is a week old. Really surprised that if the Doctor associated with the NH says she is incompetent, the Nurses don't honor that. Have u spoken to the Director of Nursing? She is in charge of the staff. If you have shown them the POA and a copy is on file it needs to be honored. My thinking is what are they up to.

You can transfer your Mom. If Rehab, tell them there is no money after the 20days that Medicare pays fully for. My Mom was in just to get her strength back and I told them this, she was released 18 days later.
Helpful Answer (3)
Reply to JoAnn29

Incompetence is a legal determination and it sounds like your mother is at least handling some of her affairs. Technically, just having a POA does not give you the power to use it unless it is clear that your mother is no longer capable of handling her own affairs… which does not mean that she is legally incompetent. From the sound of it, the nursing home is sufficiently concerned about your role in the management of your mother’s affairs to cause them to stonewall you. There’s no way they haven’t read these incomplete documents …it’s more like they are putting up roadblocks to your being able to execute them. Did the lawyer quit because of your mother’s actions or because of strife between the two of you?

Based upon what you have written, I would recommend that you ask another relative that your mother trusts to intercede. It seems pretty clear that your mother does not want you to act on her behalf and the nursing home staff must not either. If the nursing home is trying to pull a fast one as some other posters have suggested, call and ask for the clinical director and/or director of nurses and complain. If that doesn’t work, call the nursing home ombudsman. There is one in every state.
Helpful Answer (3)
Reply to Chellyfla

Contact a local lawyer. POA should be enough with your doctor's documentation of mental incompetence. An emergency guardianship is a new term for me (seems like a scam).
Helpful Answer (3)
Reply to Taarna

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