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Mom died Monday, brother raided the checking three days later. He is the executor, but he should get his due after the reading of the will, etc. Am I right?
“Reading of the Will” that is a scene in a movie or tv show. There is no reading per se, like in Knives Out (on Amazon prime right now and it’s pretty great..... Daniel Craig, yum!). What in my experience as an executor x3, is that a valid will is filed to probate court (by an atty or by a family member who has the will in their possession) and then if Will is ok (will be looked over by PC staff) then will gets admitted to PC and then the executor appears in PC and is sworn in to the court & given a document, aka Letters Testamentary; and within the Letters, it will have executors name and indicate what type of administration (like independent or dependent / court oversight) the executor has. Some states have a window in which probate must be done. Tends to be you need to allow for 30 days minimum from DOD to open and file within 2-4 years of DOD. Some allow for probate to stay opened indefinitely too.
if brother was able to do a withdrawal from an account before getting Letters & being named executor, it was ok to be done imho because: - he was / is a legit Co owner of the account, so acct stays open. - account was POD / TOD to him, like TNTechie described. for both above, $ is NOT an asset of the estate, so not part of probate. - a check dated before DOD was presented to a bank teller or deposited to his account and paid out before bank did their SSA verified death notice account suspended action. Banks will tend to honor & pay a check written before DOD or an ACH scheduled to get paid the month of death, assuming there’s $ in the account to clearly cover it.
The only way I see - in my not an atty opinion- what he did might could be a problem would be IF he did a “counter” check or regular dated after her DOD with him doing her signature on it.
My mom had her acct as POD to me and I was already a signatory on the account. Upon her death, it stayed open but seguewayed to me & I used it for estate / probate acct (bank actually suggested this, did not have to open a new estate of account). For my aunts probates, Inwas not a signatory so accounts were suspended till I went in person to bank with original Letters and they did a new acct number with my signature for them. Banks are pretty precise on stuff like this.
As others have said, funeral & burial is costly. Even if she had a preneed, there will be expenses. Like floral$ or police e$cort for burial, these are usually not covered in pre-need. If she has a home or other property, their costs all still need to get paid. He might have used $ to pay on estate assets during that window between DOD and when probate opens. Some companies will shut off utilities if the property owner has died, but if account has a credit on it, that cannot be done. This is a proactive very good thing to do.
Please pause to think if he may well have needed and used $ for things like this. Also please please realize that getting old and having older property is costly. It may be that the $ she had that you were aware of 5, 8, 10 years ago may flat not be there anymore. If the will was based on her financials & assets from ages ago, may be that realistically now is no real $ anymore to have an e$$$tate to divvy up.
OR your brother is a dick. If it’s this, you have to imho get your own probate attorney ASAP before any PC docket opened and imho it has to be probate atty that does litigation if you want to challenge the will and his being named executor. Most probate guys do not do litigation. It’s speciality work & the retainer based on plausible estate value or a minimum fee (I’d guess 8/10k up front). None of this is ever a DIY imo.
As said, he is not Executor until Probate OKs it even though it was requested in the will. If he had POA, that stopped at Moms death. It was 9 or 10 days after Moms death before I could even open Probate. Was your brothers name on her account as co-owner? If so, the money maybe his. At least half of it. It depends on how his name was placed on the account.
This would be a good question to ask the Probate office. It may all depend on your state laws. I would also ask since brother chose to take money he may not be authorized to do, does that mean he now can not be Executor? And if so, can you then be assigned that position. Because, until your brother goes to probate he does not have a short certificate to handle Moms finances. He needs that to do her banking, talk to creditors ect. Same with if he drags his feet, can someone else be assigned.
I have never heard of "reading" of the will only on TV. As Executor it was my responsibility to contact the beneficiaries that Probate had been started. Either provide them with a copy of the Will or send it upon request. The Will was filed and became public record so anyone could see it then. I eventually had a lawyer who did an accounting and sent it to the beneficiaries. My brothers at that point had the right to contest the accounting. With you it would be brother taking money when Mom died.
Beth, I'm very sorry for your loss. This is a stressful time for you and your brother. Since he is the executor and there are specific legal requirements to this responsibility, you would have legal recourse should anything seem to be amiss. I strongly agree with TNtechie to trust him unless he gives you real reason not to, since it is not worth ruining family relations over money. Not to mention I'm guessing your mom would not want that strife. May you have peace in your heart as you mourn your mother.
Depending on how Mom's money was being managed prior to her death, moving the remaining funds may be a necessity. My father's guardianship ended with his death. As the personal representative for his estate, the estate needed an account with only his money so I opened a new account funded by his life insurance and some savings while removing Dad's name from all of my parents' joint accounts. It's also possible your brother is the named beneficiary of the account under a transfer on death (TOD) designation.
You have a right to ask polite questions but the executor or personal representative is only required to answer for his actions to the probate court. If an named executor does not file the will as required, you can petition the court to require him to file the will or name someone else as personal representative.
I suggest you take a couple of deep breaths and try to become a bit less confrontational before asking to discuss things with your brother. His actions may have been completely appropriate. This is a highly stressful time for both of you and you don't need any avoidable family tensions.
Might he have needed that money for her funeral? My mom’s funeral cost $10K. Most Funeral directors require payment up front. We prepaid my mom’s funeral prior to her death; maybe your family did not. Just a thought. Believe me, if my mother knew her funeral cost $10K she probably would have been so angry & my brother for spending it! But she never ever gave us an “ok” for cremation thus we had to go the traditional route. It costs a lot to bury someone. A Lot.
There may not be a 'reading of the will'--there wasn't one when FIL died (divorced). Dh simply got many copies of his father's death certificate and began the process of weeding through dad's stuff.
He did have access to his checking acct, but due to inlaw issues, he was extremely cautious about every penny spent. He kept a meticulous accounting so he wouldn't have a situation like what you're in.
There are immediate (and expensive!) monetary issues that must be dealt with. Make sure you aren't coming across as angry--just wanting transparency in the distribution of the will.
There may be no reading of the will, but until the Probate Court accepts the sibling as Executor (or Personal Representative), he has no power to dispose of assets.
The executor is able to gather the moneys and such together for distribution, for sale. It all depends on how the will is written. The brother needs to provide letters to all heirs, and accounting to all heirs.
Yes. He needs to provide a full accounting. Send him a registered letter immediately. Has he filed with local probate court (I assume not yet). Notify her bank immediately that she is dead
Doesn’t a trust supersede a will and then if so does the executor/ trustee not have to go through probate, not do a full accounting or notify next of kin.
I’m asking because brother took me off mom’s bank account and removed me from her trust as beneficiary.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
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APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
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This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
What in my experience as an executor x3, is that a valid will is filed to probate court (by an atty or by a family member who has the will in their possession) and then if Will is ok (will be looked over by PC staff) then will gets admitted to PC and then the executor appears in PC and is sworn in to the court & given a document, aka Letters Testamentary; and within the Letters, it will have executors name and indicate what type of administration (like independent or dependent / court oversight) the executor has. Some states have a window in which probate must be done. Tends to be you need to allow for 30 days minimum from DOD to open and file within 2-4 years of DOD. Some allow for probate to stay opened indefinitely too.
if brother was able to do a withdrawal from an account before getting Letters & being named executor, it was ok to be done imho because:
- he was / is a legit Co owner of the account, so acct stays open.
- account was POD / TOD to him, like TNTechie described.
for both above, $ is NOT an asset of the estate, so not part of probate.
- a check dated before DOD was presented to a bank teller or deposited to his account and paid out before bank did their SSA verified death notice account suspended action. Banks will tend to honor & pay a check written before DOD or an ACH scheduled to get paid the month of death, assuming there’s $ in the account to clearly cover it.
The only way I see - in my not an atty opinion- what he did might could be a problem would be IF he did a “counter” check or regular dated after her DOD with him doing her signature on it.
My mom had her acct as POD to me and I was already a signatory on the account. Upon her death, it stayed open but seguewayed to me & I used it for estate / probate acct (bank actually suggested this, did not have to open a new estate of account). For my aunts probates, Inwas not a signatory so accounts were suspended till I went in person to bank with original Letters and they did a new acct number with my signature for them. Banks are pretty precise on stuff like this.
As others have said, funeral & burial is costly. Even if she had a preneed, there will be expenses. Like floral$ or police e$cort for burial, these are usually not covered in pre-need.
If she has a home or other property, their costs all still need to get paid. He might have used $ to pay on estate assets during that window between DOD and when probate opens. Some companies will shut off utilities if the property owner has died, but if account has a credit on it, that cannot be done. This is a proactive very good thing to do.
Please pause to think if he may well have needed and used $ for things like this. Also please please realize that getting old and having older property is costly. It may be that the $ she had that you were aware of 5, 8, 10 years ago may flat not be there anymore. If the will was based on her financials & assets from ages ago, may be that realistically now is no real $ anymore to have an e$$$tate to divvy up.
OR your brother is a dick. If it’s this, you have to imho get your own probate attorney ASAP before any PC docket opened and imho it has to be probate atty that does litigation if you want to challenge the will and his being named executor. Most probate guys do not do litigation. It’s speciality work & the retainer based on plausible estate value or a minimum fee (I’d guess 8/10k up front). None of this is ever a DIY imo.
This would be a good question to ask the Probate office. It may all depend on your state laws. I would also ask since brother chose to take money he may not be authorized to do, does that mean he now can not be Executor? And if so, can you then be assigned that position. Because, until your brother goes to probate he does not have a short certificate to handle Moms finances. He needs that to do her banking, talk to creditors ect. Same with if he drags his feet, can someone else be assigned.
I have never heard of "reading" of the will only on TV. As Executor it was my responsibility to contact the beneficiaries that Probate had been started. Either provide them with a copy of the Will or send it upon request. The Will was filed and became public record so anyone could see it then. I eventually had a lawyer who did an accounting and sent it to the beneficiaries. My brothers at that point had the right to contest the accounting. With you it would be brother taking money when Mom died.
You have a right to ask polite questions but the executor or personal representative is only required to answer for his actions to the probate court. If an named executor does not file the will as required, you can petition the court to require him to file the will or name someone else as personal representative.
I suggest you take a couple of deep breaths and try to become a bit less confrontational before asking to discuss things with your brother. His actions may have been completely appropriate. This is a highly stressful time for both of you and you don't need any avoidable family tensions.
Believe me, if my mother knew her funeral cost $10K she probably would have been so angry & my brother for spending it! But she never ever gave us an “ok” for cremation thus we had to go the traditional route.
It costs a lot to bury someone. A Lot.
He did have access to his checking acct, but due to inlaw issues, he was extremely cautious about every penny spent. He kept a meticulous accounting so he wouldn't have a situation like what you're in.
There are immediate (and expensive!) monetary issues that must be dealt with. Make sure you aren't coming across as angry--just wanting transparency in the distribution of the will.
I’m asking because brother took me off mom’s bank account and removed me from her trust as beneficiary.