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My mother has been showing signs of dementia for a couple of years now, but refuses to go to the doctor. She is the youngest of her siblings and she went through the same situation with my grandmother and unfortunately she knows all the tricks used.


For the most part I would not mind, it is her life and her body. Though the issue is she has this desire to want to go “home” which no longer exists, her home is less a location and more so a time. She wants to see her family, but her family hates my mother’s guts. I have plead and begged even tried to bribe them nothing.


Generally speaking COVID put me in a weird spot, cause my mother is on a fixed income and I use to make up the difference with her rent. Working kept her sane, even with her decline in memory she was and is still able to perform basic data entry level tasks—glorified button pusher. Though I do think the social aspect and routine were great for her. Problem is her old employer will not take her back she is 77 years old, and I made the largest mistake of my life I had her move in with my wife and I during COVID because my wife got furloughed and keeping up with our own expenses and my mothers rent was going to be tight on one income—not impossible but extremely tight. So in all my wisdom I opened Pandora’s Box, at the time my wife was okay with it, we have been together for 12 years, she saw my mother’s darkest side or so we thought.


Being around a person everyday really shows you the type of person they are, I have always known my mother to be a manipulative and not decent human being at all. Though she is my mother and she did choose to raise me and provide me with every opportunity she possibly could. I get it was not easy raising a child that is on the spectrum and has ASPD.


Though I am at a breaking point, her attention seeking behavior is causing a massive rift in my relationship with my wife. We have tried hiring aids from privately and from an agency, problem is my mother is for lack of better words an unapologetic narcissistic bigot. Which is frustrating cause she knows when and with who she can act up around. In short she treats the “help” as she refers to them like they are subhuman so they leave just as quickly as they come.


At one point one of the aids even had to call EMS when I was at work, and my wife was helping her mother—whom’s father just recently passed—due to her threatening to harm the aid and herself. They took her to general psychology she was released in an hour, I was told I “had” to come get her.


Generally they did say my mother is showing signs of dementia—which I already knew—so when I asked why are the releasing her then, can she not stay here and get a proper evaluation or at the very least a primarily diagnosis so I can potentially try to get her the help she needs. They mentioned unfortunately those are only done at an outpatient facility, and I mentioned yes I understand the protocol and procedures, but the main issue is my mother will not go. I explained I have been able to get my mom to see the doctors twice, once after her stroke, and once for knee. In both of occasions I explained the situation and concerns regarding my mothers declining memory so they each did a general assessment the PCP said she fine minus “general age related memory loss” what I saw did not seem to matter. The second was her neurologist, he mentioned that generally she has some deficiencies, but she also just recently stroke, so he did recommend a cognitive evaluation. I mentioned she is not going to do it, he said understood but nothing he could do without further testing.


So my mom walked off smiling as pleasant as could be. The system sucks, since from what I have gathered this is not completely uncommon and normally as she deteriorates it will become easier to get the help she needs.


Main issue is I do not have the time to wait for that, my wife yesterday told me I had to pick my mother or her. I get it my mother is not nice to her.

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I still don't understand why you and your wife "have to leave" your house. That makes no sense to me especially since it's clear that your mother cannot live alone unless you continue to enable it. Something is wrong with this picture that you are painting.
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Okonoko Jul 2021
She has no formal diagnosis and since I willfully let her into my home removing her is not as simple as just kicking her out. The sad truth is she is in a legal grey area but my actions of removing her especially because she has legal representation in the legal context she does have rights especially given her age.

Suse it possible but it will be fought which would require me to stay in the state or at the very least deal with her and her attorney. Leaving the home is just the path of least resistance which allows us to move away and be far away from the situation.

Rremoving someone from your house if they fight it is not that easy of a task especially if they have no other means to afford or have another place to stay.

In short it is clear from a medical sense but from a legal sense it is not as cut and dry. Since she is able to cook clean shop and even passed a road test I still took her keys away. It is not fun.
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Sorry that you had to be put in a situation where you had to make this decision. But parents make it so hard for us at times not taking in considering what they want or don't want effects other people. And they need those people, just don't realize it.

Now you have her on APS radar it will be easier to walk away. I would hope a SW will be checking in. Your wife is and should be #1. Her needs above Moms.
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Okonoko Jul 2021
Yeah generally SW was not very helpful when it comes to being proactive with a stubborn parent especially one that extremely difficult. My guess they will show up when it is far too late. They tried to guilt trip me into caring for her but unfortunately empathy is not my strong suit.

Either way once I told them that I have no means to care for her and my doctors and lawyer provided me with the documentation to present to APS, SW etc . . . they backed off from harassing me. Either way sucks I have to leave my house but not worth the effort getting her removed.

In the end she has shown how resourceful she can be so who knows maybe things will workout for her. I know she is too stubborn to just die or take this laying down. :P
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Slight update after speaking with APS ,social services, and the doctors I have come to the conclusion that I will be abandoning my mother and letting her become a ward of the state. The legal battle is not worth the effort on my part. Being as she has no official diagnosis or disability I have started the process to leave my mother and let the state pick up the pieces since I have no legal obligation to her.

Thanks again for all the advice and information.
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Slartibartfast Jul 2021
I really think this is for the best. Her failure to plan ahead combined with her failure to be reasonable does not add up to an obligation for you to ruin your marriage for her. A wise woman once said you don't have to set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. Wishing you the best.
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You are willing to private pay for your mother in a facility? You say the places she's picked out don't take insurance. ? Does she have some kind of insurance, or do you mean Medicaid? What will you do if she goes to a place far away? Do you think you will be tasked with managing everything from a distance?

How many 1/2 siblings do you have?
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Okonoko Jun 2021
She has Medicare she refuses to sign up for medicaid she has association issue with the stimga around medicaid.

The places she has picked are on the higher end in terms of scale. Not sure 100% the cost still have to speak with my wife though their over the phone estimates are financially possible for me to swing not without sacrifice. Though if she really is willing to go without a fight then in the long run it would it be cheaper and less stressful.

Cause end of the day she has until next year to get her s*** together. If she willfully wants help and goes through the channels and does not fight I will manage her care as long as she lives.

Though if not I am done I have to pick my own future over hers.

I have five but she abandoned them as children so I do not blame them for not wanting anything to do with my mom. Granted I do believe closure might do something for her but somethings time does not heal and can never be forgotten.
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General update I did happen to find a doctor willing to come do the evaluation at home--it will cost me does not take insurance but so worth I am just glad I found someone that felt would click with my mom. So that will be happening next week Monday, Wednesday, Friday.

In passing I asked my mom if she would be willing to look for a place to stay on her tablet. She agreed she found a few places should would be willing to go. Each are private facilities so once again no insurance so the cost will be on me. Though we do have appointments to see each place this week. A couple are in the area and one is in NY and the other is FL. So this week we will see the local ones and after her evaluation we will take a trip to see the NY and FL ones.

I am taking the next month or so off so I can focus on this and take some real action steps to better my situation. I did not realize how expensive long term care is. On a side note I am glad my father told me from an early age to get myself covered in those regards early on.
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You need to file for eviction--tomorrow.

I don't know where you live, but eviction moritoria are being lifted and there are exceptions to these rules.

When (not if) your mother falls or becomes ill, call 911 and have her transported to the ER. DO NOT PICK HER UP.
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Okonoko May 2021
I know I should not laugh but my wife and I were just talking about that over the phone. How all of this would have been simple if we had just left her after her stroke in Aug. To a degree I wish her doctors would have listened to me when I said she was having a stroke she suffered from an asymptomatic bilateral cerebellar stroke.

Only reason I knew was because something was off with my mom. I know she does not meet the safety profile for tBA but I think both of us would have rather gambled on that instead of seeing her live how she is now.

Part of me still kicks myself for not finishing med school, even she mentioned in passing why did I not finish she would not be able to pull these stunts. I do not think would be the case it is a lovely and romantic notice to a degree.

I hate to say it I wish I had the foresight to do just that back in Aug. She was still still a pain but my wife and I felt sorry for her especially because her father had recently passed due to a stroke earlier that year. We let our guard down.
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Thank you for all the advice! I will be doing my research and making many phone calls this week. My wife is currently looking for a new place for home for us. Since our worst case scenario plan is to just leave the house to my mother if she refuses to leave or it becomes to difficult to leave. We have gotten to that point, though I do hope it does not come to that—I designed the house from the landscaping to the home itself—it does mean a lot to us. My wife and I were my first client so to speak.

Either way I will keep posting my progress for those that do want to follow along. Thank you again for your time and experience.
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You can't modify the amount of suffering that your mom is going to experience by her poor choices.

Quite frankly, I would find a studio apartment that she can afford all on her own and move her.

Hopefully you have been correcting her ignorant behavior towards your wife, every single time it comes up.

You are no longer a child and that means that you DO NOT have to take whatever your mom dishes out.

I would make her life miserable in my home if she treated my spouse nasty, make her want to leave. You should present a united front with your wife and freeze your mom out until she gets the point that she can not act like she has to your wife. Sorry, if she loved you, she would love who you chose to spend your life with.

Filial laws are typically only enforced when the child has money, not when they are scraping by. Can't get blood out of a turnip.

You mom is going to have to fail on her own to ever make any changes.
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Okonoko May 2021
That is part of the issue sadly I do have “money” so to speak we just happen to live in a higher then average cost of living state. That is the thing I have done just that, since my wife is no longer here I do not take her out for walks, I tell her if you want to go home dial 911 and tell them to take you home. I ignore her pleas for when she comes in and tries to engage or tell me she is lonely.

Just sadly my ploys have bitten me in the ass so to speak as of late. Since yesterday she did call 911, frame my actions in such a way that made me seem like the monster. I mean does not help I was honest with the officers and them outside of making sure she has a roof over her head, food in her belly, and clothes on her back I really do not care what happens to my mother. Cause I have told her as you have mentioned a mother should not want her child to suffer and be away from the person they love most. Though she does not care, she has already abandoned her other children from other marriages.

As mentioned she is a horrible person, and I did not put up with it. Just becomes murky because the blood sucking parasite has lived her life coning and manipulating others so this is just second nature to her now, and she has a lawyer in her corner. Granted I do not help my case because I do yell at my mother and I have broken my hand out of anger when I punched my steel door after she called my wife a child of a cotton picker and my neighbor who loves my mother so much called the cops after they saw me do that in fear for my mother.

Generally I do not paint the best picture when it comes to being a loving or understandable son. I try but I cannot imagine this is easy for someone that understand normal social and emotional conventions, let alone me who is on the spectrum and operates in a very black and white world view. Where I am honest to a fault even if it would get me in trouble.

My mother knows I hate her for what she has done and said to my wife, and she has admitted she does not care. She views me solely as her meal ticket.
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Your obligation is not to your mother but to your wife. She comes first. Ultimatums, however, are not helpful. Especially from a spouse. So disregard your mother's attempt to control your life and discuss your options with your wife.

You may feel a sense of responsibility to your mom, but you are in no way obligated. Your mother should have a dementia screening by a physician who listens to your account of her behavior and history, not one who merely relies on a 5 minute paper test. People can sometimes fudge their way thru a test, but they can't deny their history.

JoAnn29's and AnnReid's posts both offers excellent advice. Have someone come in to assess her. Your Area Aging on Aging can help set up or suggest a comprehensive consultation. Call them.
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Those filial laws are rarely used. Some states have already taken them off their books because we now have Medicaid.

Does Mom have Social Security and a pension? If so, see if your area has HUDD Senior Apts. The ones in my Township are very nice. They charge 30% of her monthly income. She then is responsible for her utilities which would be electric and cable. She may qualify for Food Stamps. Maybe Medicaid for her secondary insurance. My state it covers health, vision, prescriptions and dental. My State also has a prescription plan (PADD) for those people who make too much for Medicaid. If you can get her set up in a HUDD apt or a low income one then call Office of Aging to see what services they provide, like a bus.

I suggest you get POA while Mom can still make decisions. If she refuses, tell her then when she worsens the State will take over her care and they will make all decisions for her. You will not be allowed any input. (I think you can put input but she doesn't need to know that) If she refuses, then don't worry about it.

You may want to see if you can be payee on her SS unless u rather not. But by being Payee you give out her money to her. This way you r sure her bills are paid. Maybe continuing to pay part of her rent. As she gets worse you can have APS evaluate her situation. If they find she needs 24/7 care you either allow them to take over her care which I would do if she would not assign you POA.

Yes, your wife comes first. You may want to tell Mom now that things are opening up its time for her to find a place of her own. Her living with you is no longer an option and its not working. If she won't look for a place, you need to do it. Then u take her there and drop her off. Maybe telling her a little white lie that ur going to look at a place. Once there, you tell her this is now her home.

The only responsibility you may have towards Mom is to make sure she is safe, clothed and fed. When it comes time her Dementia has progressed to 24/7 care, you place her in a NH on Medicaid.
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Okonoko May 2021
My mom just has SS, she was never much of a forward planner. My family has an extremely dangerous and dated concept of children being the retirement plan for the parent.

Aye, my lawyer did mention that possibility but he has had recent experiences with such issues, that is why he said to move to just put the burden on the state. We have tried to moving into her own apartment, but I screwed up hardcore by letting her stay with me in my house. Getting her to leave is extremely difficult since she is not willing.

The main issue I have is unfortunately she remembers doing all of this with my grandmother. I remember once I even tried to pull a similar trick she used on my grandmother when we wanted to get her out. I said “Mom, want to get your nails done, and maybe go out for lunch?” She said sure. When I got her to the office because she is so into appearances she did not act out but once we got into the car she let me have it. “How dare you!” You asshole!” “I trusted you!” So I think the white lie part will be rough because her memory is not so bad that she has forgotten that case.

Generally I have given up on the POA, I have tried, but if it does get to that point I do think her lawyer will take over. She does have a lawyer protecting her legal and personal autonomy. Plus it also works out since my wife also does not want me to have to deal with anything regarding her in the future unless she willfully accepts she needs help and does what she has to do.

Nevertheless, I will be looking into those programs and see what my state offers, and I will also look into local agencies to see what is offered. Since finding a place is the most important step, once that is done I can worry about getting her into that place.
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You can have someone come to her to do a psychological assessment.

If she throws a tantrum and tries to threaten the examiner. her behaviors will become a part of the examiner’s report.

Look for a psychologist/psychiatrist/neurologist practicing specifically in geriatric management.

We happened to be able to connect with a wonderful practice locally, and a gentle and perceptive Geriatric psychiatric Physician’s Assistant was able to pinpoint numerous specific symptoms through conversation, casual questioning and observation, that lead to a helpful report.

The general “screening” tests given by general practice physicians, even those who are specialists, don’t zero in as the geriatric/specialist dual training folks can do.

If you love your wife and she loves you, don’t give up your relationship without a fight. Your mother is ill, her brain has been compromised, and she is not motivated to change in a positive way.

When you have the information you need about her cognitive diagnosis and you have considered alternatives (Assisted Living? Memory Care?) you can make the most lovable decision available for her, and although she will fuss, maybe frighteningly, she WON’T “SUFFER” once she realizes that you have made the plan for the safest and most comfortable living arrangements you could make, and that you and your wife will continue to live together by yourselves.

Start your research for a geriatric diagnostician. Today!
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Okonoko May 2021
Thank you I will look into that, with a just quick google search right now I have found a new places in my area so I will be making phone calls tomorrow. My general fear is since I have spoken with my own neurologist regarding this issue, even if I get her a diagnosis, that alone will not be enough to get her the help she needs.

The reality is my mother is that so far off the rails so to speak that she does not understand what is going on her with. The scary thing about this and one of the main reasons why my own neurologist will not even see her on my behalf boils down the fact that he knows—been my doctor for 24 years—my mother is a general lost cause.

Based off her CT, and MRI back from when she had her stroke, general progression after the stroke she most likely has vascular dementia. The part that gets me most is that she is fully aware and cognizant of what is going on with her yet refuses any level of help.

A part of me wonders if this would be this hard if my mother did not go with this with my grandmother. She keeps citing her experiences with my grandmother and the reason as to why she does not want help. I have tried to reach out to my half brothers and sisters to see if they would be willing to just come in and sit down ease her through all of this. Though I get why they want nothing to do with her she abounded each of them to save herself.

Either way no matter my fears getting the diagnosis will better equip me with more tools to help me so I will be working on getting that diagnosis.
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Don’t have an answer but I am so sorry for your circumstances.
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My answer is simple I pick my wife, problem is I do not know what to do with my mom. Unfortunately my state does not make it easy to just kick her out. I cannot force her into a ASL to the best of my knowledge and she will not willfully go because my mom is happy. She hates my wife, my wife happens to be African American which as mentioned my mother is a bigot so yeah.

Has anyone here dealt with such a situation before and how did you navigate it. I spoke with my own lawyer and he told me to leave the state put the burden on the state to come and find me. Since I do happen to live in a state that has filial responsibility laws.

Problem is a part of me does not want to see my mother suffer, but I am 30, my own personal life is just beginning. Though if anyone has an idea that limit the amount of suffering my mother would face I am all ears. Thank you so much for your time and experience.
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