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Hi group.


I live in NY and dad in PA. Last Time I saw him was in November, but we talk regularly. Last time he was having back issues and very slow to move. He and lady friend of 40 years live in 2 condos next to each other and she helps him as much as she can. They were planning on moving to assisted living together. He called me 3 days ago and said they were ending their relationship and he doesn’t know what to do. He was going to move in alone to assisted living there, but I told him to think about moving to my town. I came down yesterday. He has health issues: Afib, just diagnosed w congestive heart failure, and had stroke in eye which has ruined sight in left eye. I was SHOCKED when I saw him. A few things became clear. He is very very depressed. He seems to have a drinking problem. “I need it to relax,” he asked me to bring him gin and as evening progressed he was more forgetful and rude and finally he didn’t know who I was, “Who are you, why are you here.” I had to leave, go back and try like hell to convince him to go inside . He reeks of pee. He goes between, "I'm sorry, I'm your father I shouldn’t be this way” and "I never thought my life would end this way,” and "I want to not wake up." Then he bounces back and gets agitated. I’m an only child and he has always been my hero. He is an ex marine who has traveled, people love him, he’s always looked after himself. I don’t know this man. He let me call his eye Dr. with him and he was rude to them. I learned he hasn’t been compliant, and I tried to get them to see him tomorrow, they agreed. Then he refused and now they’ve cut him off. He is at risk of losing his eye. He clearly needs assisted living. I think he may have the beginnings of dementia. He has depression and a drinking problem. Problem is, he won’t let me talk to his Dr. He wants to come to Buffalo, but in 3 days here he can’t sit down to plan because he goes round and round. I don’t know where to start. He’s selling his place, but I’m concerned about leaving him alone when I go bc he’ll be all alone. He’s refusing a lifeline device. I don’t have authorization to talk to his Dr. What steps do I need to take? Who can I get to check on him if he stays in his own place until he comes up with me? How do I deal with this alcohol issues? I know he needs tough love, but this has been such a shock to me I’m not adjusted to it all. I can’t do this on my own. Are there people that help plan this kind of thing? I feel like I’m spinning my wheels and I need him to figure out 1) How will he get by on his own for now, mid-term and what is his long-term plan. He thinks this is all going to just magically happen by June. It’s not, sorry. I’m ranting but tomorrow is my last day here with him then I head back. I’m panicking without a plan. Thank you all.

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If you see any way to call 911 and have your dad transported to the hospital, he really needs to be checked out medically as he’s not making sound decisions. If he refuses transport when the medics arrive and nothing will convince him or them to take him, your next step is to call the local Adult Protective Services and report him as an adult in need of help, unsafe in his home. Neither of these options is something to discuss doing with dad, just act. His current issues are past your abilities to solve, moving him to your city would only mess up your life and not fix his, he simply needs more than you can provide. I’m sorry for all of this, and hope you can find help soon
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I don't understand how you didn't notice his health troubles before. His bad health didn't just suddenly happen now. You said you talk regularly, but somehow it must not have been so regular for you not to notice all this. A video call, seeing his face regularly, you would have noticed a lot of things.

I agree with Daughterof1930, please get your Dad to the hospital, ER. Call 911 today. He needs urgent help for his eye.
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I can see what a shock this would be. The difference between an ok long distance phone conversation & this.

Your Father sounds like he is in crises. I think it would be appropriate to call for help - his Doctor (if they will take your call) or call EMS.

His crises might be the result of many factors - stroke, behaviour changes, anxiety, drinking, stress, relationship breakdown, who knows what other medical issues. Bottom line is he is not coping alone & is expressing 'death wish'.

He may need a stint as in inpatient to start unwinding his crises. Medical assessments, dementia & mental health screening, needs assessment for mobility, ADLs. A licenced Social Worker may be a useful part of his team, especially regarding a change to Assisted Living.

Don't stay on the train while it de-rails. Leap free. Being trapped won't help. You need to be free to & call for help. Rework your role to be Advocate while you are in town. Aim for a safe place now. The longer living arrangements can be made later.

Maybe his partner may be able to fill you in more? Maybe breaking up was needed to get him some help.
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Buffalo, I'm with Daughter1930.

Call 911 NOW and have them take him to the ER. He needs to be somewhere where he can get detoxed, have his eye looked at and his mental health checked.

If you need to Baker Act him (ask for an involuntary psychiatric hold), do so.

You need to speak to the social workers at the hospital about his current living situation and the fact that he lives alone and cannot do so any longer.
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Drinking causes high blood pressure and that can cause a stroke. He needs to toss the sauce and get in AA or other program. He could get medication to decrease his stress; that might be provided at detox. Drinking also causes depression. He needs to do a lot of work to straighten himself out.

He shouldn’t live with you. Addiction is miserable to observe and could put you in danger if he gets angry and violent. You won’t be able to reason with him if he’s drunk and irrational. I don’t see much hope here for an acceptable outcome.
On the other hand if he could land in a good residential alcohol abuse program, maybe he’d have a chance. It’s worth trying if you can convince him.

Do anything you can to keep him from moving in with you. That’s a recipe for disaster.
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One more thing--You can tell his doctor what is going on. The doctor cannot give YOU information about your father's health, but you can and should call his doctors and tell them what is going on.
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Also--Start going to Al-Anon.
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Buffalogal, how are things with you and dad today?
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I’m so sorry that you are going through all of this.

As you most likely know, addiction is a disease. When people have been drinking the way your dad has, they simply cannot stop.

It’s actually dangerous for him to stop cold turkey. The other serious danger is mixing alcohol with certain medications. Do you know if your dad is currently taking meds for other health issues?

I agree that with the suggestion made by others that you should attend Al-Anon meetings.

I have gone to meetings and they are helpful. You will be in the company of others who have been through the same thing that you are going through now.

I am sorry that you don’t have access to inquire about your dad’s medical history.

You can try to speak with the doctor about his situation. If you call and the doctor doesn’t return your call because you aren’t authorized to receive information. You could write a letter to the doctor and explain what is going on.

If you are able to get your dad into the hospital, the staff will help him to detox safely.

I feel your pain. I grew up with an addict. At one point, I desperately tried to help my oldest brother (now deceased) and he refused my help.

I made the choice to walk away. I know how hard it is to turn your back someone who you love but trust me it’s necessary. It’s your only shot at helping them.

My brother asked to stay in my home. I told him that wasn’t the answer to his problem.

If you enable your dad he will make your life a living hell. An addict will promise you the sun, moon and stars and never deliver on their promises.

Addicts are quite good at deception until the problem becomes bigger than they are. This seems to be where your dad is. His problem is too much for him to handle on his own.

Wishing you peace as you navigate through this awful situation.
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Tough Love - Do Not sell anything or Make any decisions till he goes to Detox and a substance abuse / rehabilitation Program . Speak with His Lady friend and ask what she thinks and if she can help you get him Help and have an Intervention . I would say " Dad I can Not help you Until you go to Detox and we see your Doctor together or your On your Own . I will Need healthcare Proxy and POA If I am to make decisions for you . You are depressed and not thinking rationally . " Perhaps His Lady friend can Back you up . Because you're In a sinking ship and he is drowning and needs medical help , psychiatric help , a diagnosis and to get Off the Booze otherwise you will drown with him . His behavior is making you sick and confused . You Need a therapist for yourself and a social worker for him . Tough Love and Boundaries . He sounds Like he May have alcohol Induced dementia . You can't fix him if he is a drunk . You Can be firm But dont let him Push you around and if he does have dementia His Doctor needs to help him .
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What a stressful situation, my heart goes out to you Buffalogal. Don't think for a moment this was your fault somehow.......parents are great at making us think they're fine and dandy when we live in different states and speak on the phone regularly. By the time I moved my folks across the country to be near me, I learned dad had cancer, neuropathy in his feet to the point he'd had 3 car accidents, and many other shocking things. When I laid eyes on him, I cried. They don't WANT us to know there's a crisis going on so they Showtime up a storm, is what happens.

I just wanted to offer support and say "I get it". I hope you can get dad to the ER for a full medical workup soon. Then placed in Assisted Living as I did with my folks, as they both wound up needing a lot of care out of my realm of capability.

Best of luck to you.
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You say that you "don't have authority" to even speak to his doctor. I think (and actually HOPE) that you don't have POA. The truth is that there is absolutely ZERO you can do for your Dad. He is not diagnosed with dementia. He hasn't asked for your help. He doesn't WANT your help. So you cannot make a plan.

As you observed, Dad doesn't want to go into ALF, which he needs at this point, and he is an alcoholic. You can do nothing about either of those decisions.

Once you know there is nothing you can do you are stuck with waiting for the stuff to hit the fan. You will get a call telling you your Dad is in hospital; he will either be dead or alive. I would save any plans for trips to Dad for that call.
And again, if you are not POA and Dad is not judged incompetent, you will be powerless.

I can see no other choice than to leave Dad to the fate his choices dictate. For yourself, go to Al-Anon. Practice the serenity prayer over and over. Make it your philosophy.
The fact Dad had a relationship allowed you to ignore the facts, but the facts have likely been bad for some time, and there never WAS anything you could do about them.
I would allow the state to step in when Dad finally needs a 5150, diagnosis, and guardianship. Let the state take on this man. I was POA/Trustee for a lovely, gentle, wise, organized man who was in his right mind, and cooperative. THAT was hard enough.

Basically, the short answer is "Nothing. There is nothing you can plan or do". I am so sorry. This is so often the case.
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Have you talked to his lady friend to find out who broke up with who and why. Maybe she realized that his illness are too much for her to care for for the rest of her life. They are not married for a reason.

Maybe get Dad in an AL where he is till u can work out something in NY. And I am with Lea in do not feel guilty. My brothers did not even visit my Mom, maybe once, in that last yr of her life. They had no idea how much she declined. You will find a lot of people, like Lea, who brought their parents to live with them from out of state only to find their care was more than they were capable of doing. One parent dies, the other a child takes in to live with them, only to find that the parent who died covered up that the other parent had Dementia.
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Hi everyone. Thanks you all for the insightful info and for caring. So, finished up my visit and we have a “ plan” he is going to move up here. He has contacted his realtor to our condo on market. Agreed to get rid of everything except paintings , personal items and a desk that was his when he was young. He has sold his car to the lady friend for $1 and she has agreed to grocery shop and help him til I get him up here. He has also asked his neighbor to help a bit and he is paying her ( she was a nurse assistant and has lived there for 20 years). I have identified a very nice assisted living place 4 minutes from my house and they don’t have room yet but they will put him on first floor independent living while waiting ( same building) for open space. He’s very sad but he seems to look forward a bit to moving here and asks about doing things together so that is good. Next step I guess will be to transfer up all his medical paperwork before the move . I have already identified drs for him and once he gets here maybe then we can do an evaluation of his health. I think if I can get him up here. And I to assisted living where he will take his meds and be able to “ do” more it will be an improvement. I did get him a wheelchair and we went for a ride and I noticed a change in him when we did that. Ni will be referring to this forum a lot for past advice on posts. Thank you all again. Baby steps but at least he is on board w the plan.
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Buffalogal, positive news!

One thing to watch out for--if you think Dad will need Medicaid down the road, proceed with caution when selling car/condo etc for less than FMV.
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MD, the deal with the car is just the sort of well-intentioned mis-step that often ends up in a Medicaid penalty situation.

One should always consult an Elder Law attorney at the beginning; this is an emergency situation, but I hope Buffalo will get a consult before selling the Condo and moving her dad.
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So glad to hear that things are moving along. With regard to Medicaid and selling the car for $1.00, in our experience the application asked about the sale or transfer of assets in the past 5 years, including property (real estate), bank accounts, securities, and any other financial assets. It did not ask about sale of personal property such as a vehicle. I believe if a person has a car (which is allowed) at the time they apply for Medicaid, and they later sell it when on Medicaid, the proceeds from the sale would be expected to go for their care. The $$ from the sale of the condo would be spent on care during the spend-down period before an application would be made for Medicaid. While it's worth double checking, I don't think in this case the sale of the car for $1 would cause any kind of problem since dad is not on Medicaid.
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Here's the thing--Medicaid regs are quite State-specific. And since BG is moving her dad from PA to NY, it behooves her and her dad to be aware of the Medicaid regs in the state where he will reside.

It may be fine. It's just that we read many sad tales here of folks who thought they were doing the right thing, only to have the situation blow up in their faces.
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The journey continues but how is that for a crises turn-around folks!

Buffalogal, hi-five & fist pump to you. You got this!

This is what can be accomplished when you keep calm, keep your wits, face the reality of a situation head on (no matter how scary it first appears), reach out, research & take action. I'm impressed.

This train is set on new tracks already. Sure there may be more surprises up ahead, some steep hills, low points or breakdowns.. but you have the tools you need (or know how to find them).
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First, call Veteran Care Services. 888-383-8372. Its legit. We did it for my dad who is a WWII Navy vet. They keep the first two months of payments and the rest goes to dad. It's $2200 a month and helps with care. They are even working on getting some retro pay. Next, reach out to Medicaid. If he doesn't have Medicaid apply now. They will have someone come over and do a free in-home evaluation to determine what he needs. Best bet is to meet with an elder care attorney. Its a few hundred for a consult but well worth it. They can help guide with next steps. My wife and I have been caring for my dad, who is now 100+, for six years and we have learned a lot. There is help out there, it just takes a little time.
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I so hope you obtain POA for Medical and financial. Make sure its immediate so in the future u will not need a doctor/s to make it effective.

Selling the car, Mom sold hers for $500 in 2014, Book value was $700. It was a cash transaction. She didn't have it at time of the Medicaid application, so I didn't include it as an asset. It was never questioned. I was probably asked "does she have a car" I said "No" and the caseworker went to the next question.

I am glad that Dad is going to live near you. My suggestion would be is to set boundries now. When you can visit, how many calls a day you can tolerate. He needs to mingle with the other residents and be involved in activities and outings. You can't be his everything. And you take advantage of what the AL has. If they have a van for shopping or appts use it.
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