The Caregiver & Dysfunctional Families: How are you doing?

Despite being in the deep freeze here I am not having any FM pain. That's amazing and, I am sure, due to the decrease of stress in my life . Got some more estate stuff done and we are nearly finished. 😊

Things seem to be settling down for dd and family. Dgd is on meds and getting counselling.

R is doing a course of PT and his pain has decreased, and mobility increased, So some good things are happening.

The kitties are behaving themselves as much as kitties can. Since I moved the litter boxes we have had no more issues .with that. 🤞

I had fatigue and brain fog from CFS the other day which makes doing any paper work hard, I took some meds and suddenly it was like a wind blew the fog away and my head was as clear as could be. That was when I got the estate stuff done. It has been such a struggle at times with the lack of concentration and the fatigue. I am determined that this year it will be better. I know the decrease of stress will help. People do recover from CFS. I think I am on the way with the FM pain going. I still get general aches and pains but OTC meds help them, and also a lot of self care - hot bubble baths, proper meals, time to veg, hot drinks, chocolate!!!, good books to read, and enough sleep.

Here's to a healthier new year for everyone. We can do it!!! 👍 🎈🎈🎈

sissisu - good to hear from you again. Happy New Year to you. I see from what you write your mum is as critical as ever I am glad she acknowledges you are good at computers. I found trying to be nice to my mother backfired as did compliments. Mother would make up jobs for me to do too. Sometimes I said "No". You are right she wants you to do it all so if something goes wrong it is your fault. Glad you aren't doing it or the tree or having her move in with you . We need to draw the line somewhere. Good boundaries!

Hi All,
I have not been on here for a long time, with So much going on.
I am the one who's Mother is 95 years old (will be 96 this Summer), and is still living alone in her 3 Family house. Nothing has changed in the last several years. My Mother does have one fairly new Tenant, but that person is not home during the day, and is not responsible for my Mother and her safety.
As a reminder: I am the older of just 2 Siblings. I am 68 yrs old, and I have one Brother who is 66. He and his Wife (who is much younger) live just one half mile from our Mother's house, in walking distance. He was the one who wanted her to keep the house so that he can take over as the Landlord. Actually, our Mother has already let him, and his Wife, take over. They are making all the decisions on repairs, and also finding new tenants to rent the other apartment. His Wife is involved in everything, while I am never consulted or included. I am in the will as a Half owner of the house - with my Brother - so just the 2 of us. Unless my Mother ends up selling it. I was so fed up about being excluded that I had asked my Mother to call her Lawyer and take me out of her will, but she never did. I did not want to deal with the hassle of another house, and the fact that my Brother does not keep in touch with me. Also, I am hurt that my Mother has allowed him and his Wife to take over - while I am kept out of the loop all the time. I had wanted our Mother to sell the house and move to AL near me. That didn't happen, so my Mother and I kept in touch by phone, and we talked almost every day - for anywhere from one hour to 4 hours. My Mother has bad eyesight due to Glaucoma, is blind in one eye, and needs hearing aids which she only wears half the time. Also, she had a few falls, so now it's difficult for her to get up to answer the phone, or she does not hear it ring. We let the phone ring for along time, but she still couldn't hear it. So we agreed that she would call me when she wanted to. So about 4 months ago, I stopped getting her phone calls. I tried to call her - but no answer. My Brother does not like to keep in touch with me, but I finally got a response from him. He said that our Mother now has trouble seeing the phone so she can't make calls. He also said he has been checking on her a little more, and he does see her on the weekends, because he is at the house to do some remodeling on one of the apartments. So, I asked him to do me a favor - to please call me from our Mother's phone so that I can talk to her. I got no reply from him. My husband (71 years old) and I could not drive to my Mother's house for the last few months, due to his health problems and mine. But my Brother never called to ask how we are doing, I don't think he cares enough. We live 30 miles away, it's a one hour drive or more, and always lots of traffic. My problem is that I am still feeling guilty that I am not the one doing everything for our Mother, as I used to. But, I also feel that I am somehow being punished because I am not able to do what my Brother wants - take care of our Mother so he won't have to. I feel that it is now his job - he is the one who kept our Mother in this situation. I am sure that he feels that it's a burden to him, since our Mother still refuses all outside help. She could have free care from the Commission for the Blind, but she didn't want them in her house either. Any ideas or suggestions? Thank You.

Hi east - I remember you. It looks, as you say that nothing has really changed except your mum's ailments have increased, which is to be expected at her age. and you are having less contact with her and your cousin, I understand that that is a concern. I seriously don't think there is anything you can do to help your mother or your brother. Your mum refuses outside help and has given all care to your brother to manage. It is his job and has been for a while. Maybe someone else will have some ideas for you . You and your husband have your own health issues and carrying guilt for a situation where you have done no wring is not good for you or him. I remember that you tried at various times but your help was not received well.

"My problem is that I am still feeling guilty that I am not the one doing everything for our Mother, as I used to. But, I also feel that I am somehow being punished because I am not able to do what my Brother wants " I;m not sure what from this punishment takes. Can you explain?

Your guilt is false guilt. It seems to be based on what you think your brother thinks and probably what you expect of yourself still, though you can't do it. You have done nothing wrong. Everyone has their limits.

Maybe you need to accept things as they are. Aging family, including ourselves is no picnic. We do the best we can. You are not responsible for your brother's feelings. It is up to him to deal with them.

Greetings to all! I am not caught up. Its so good to read new comers and old posters getting help and advice.

I had a real nice break down a few days ago. I been feeling a little depressed and frustrated. I was proud of my growth in responding to my slither's and nephew's actions and neglect. At one point he put lock on the door of the bathroom on my floor. Then he through out some of my things from fridge callng himself cleaning it out but didnt finish the hard part of cleaning the dried gook from spills and dementia mischeif. I havent changed the lock since it was the holidays and my slither had been off. I was proud of myself for not sending text to nephew about the last few incidendts. The last one msg I sent I almost literally called him a "B".
I dont want to start hitting below the belt in any way.

They did not go to doctor apt nor was another date set. I will keep checking and leaving notes for the care practitioner.

It is continually depressing to see my mother deteriorate and wishing she had better care. Also my nature is to fix everything and I cant fix this. I know I truly cant handle the care I try to provide on my own. So I will find myself breaking down in the mist of cleaning a mess. Or just remembering who my mother was before this demise.

Then to top things off I used wrong address for my son and for an order I made to treat myself mistakenly for the address of the corner store I use for packages. So in the morning I have to go to those addresses and inquire about my packages. Whew!! the order can be replaced and my son had sent things from Japan. Thank goodness he didn't send diamonds :) I sure hope I am able to get the packages.

Its a wake up call. I had a few this last week. Its scary. I felt like a black cloud was following me. then my mother had put a crisper from bottom of fridge on the top of the fridge and as she pulled it down it smacked her in her face. She dry cried for good few minutes, I cried with her but real tears. What is it about a narcissist that they dont really cry, cant remember slither crying either. I remember looking at movies the three of us and Id be the only one wiping my eyes I thought I was too sensitive and hid the tears always.

I also know that January is a month full of loved ones birthdays and the memories and dreams flood in. My grandmother and two of my cousin who were like brothers to me celebrate heavenly birthdays.

So all those frustrations, and fear just hit me hard for like two days, I knew I had to pull it together some way find some peace of mind and heart.

I called my friend and prayer partner we prayed and I feel so much better. He led me toward proverbs. I am uplifted by God Is, and I dont beleive he bought me this far to leave me by Rev. James Cleavland. These are two old but beautiful songs I first heard on my birthday at a gospel concert I went to with O and his wife.

I also did a lot of smiling! Got a lot of smiles back I am feeling so much better.

So good to see the soldiers and guardian angels on this site still working their magic and helping others come to terms.

Rays of love light and healing to all! Good night.

Duck,

I am so sorry you are having such a hard time. Sorry your mom smacked her face. It’s so hard to feel helpless. Glad you found comfort with your friend and prayer partner. Hugs!

Hello East,

I get it. Many a day I have wished to be an ‘only’ child. Hahaha

Plenty of us have sibling issues. Been there done that. I surrendered. I gave up and let my brother deal with it all. We cannot make our mom or siblings respect us equally or respond in certain ways, so that’s that.

I wish you well. Take care.

Hello everyone, I had a lot to vent yesterday but could not log in. Today I am not up to it.

This thread seems like its deserted. I hope everyone is good and taking care of themselves and their hearts.

Its so sad that its taken me so long to figure out self preservation, self esteem. I am starting to be comfortable with no contact with my slither or her son.

Nothing from APS. My mother is good, poor appetite today. She made a mess pouring teriyaki sauce out side the stove burners and it was a nice mess to clean. Lots of things need to be addressed and I am doing so at my own pace.

Otherwise I am in a good place. The depression and frustrations hits hard sometimes .And when my mother is in a certain mode her old self comes out and then come the flashbacks of her and my slither and going there makes me bitter not so much at my mother but I realize they are both mentally ill.

I am leaning on My Father in heaven a lot now, knowing I cannot and never could handle these and other issues alone.

Blessings and rays of light to all. Smile I mean it really works and comes right back at you.

Take care all be good to yourselves.

Well, Mom has been up and down (not horribly down), so I figured we'd have what I term a 'dark' mood coming up. Today was that day. She was okay over the weekend; I kept it quiet that I had Monday off work or she would've insisted I go there, even though the weather was bad. She was okay earlier on the day on Sunday then went into a sour mood. Last night when I called her, she was brief, and said oh are you working from home tomorrow? Foolishly, I said yes. I was like oh rats, she's going to call and rant. Bingo. She was half crying half yelling, ranting about how she does not want me to go there ever again until I apologize for what I've done to her. What have I done? I didn't agree with her plan where she'd buy a house and we'd live together. I honestly do not even remember her discussing it (doubtful any discussion took place - just she wanted to do THIS - HER plan), and I guess I said no. I told her later, I would have had to buy the home because otherwise all I would have heard, this is MY HOUSE, MY RULES. Oh, she'd never say that. She said the time as I was a kid. I put the phone on mute; it was the same stuff she always rants about. After telling her the issue with her hands sure sounded like carpal tunnel (way back in 2013/2015), to which she said no it was not, she found a doctor's invoice or the slip they give you with each visit. It said she had carpal tunnel. She now swears the doctor never told her. She cannot hear and will not even think of going for a hearing test. Ironically, one of her friends has hearing aids, has had joint surgeries, heart procedure, all without the drama Mom would have had (she also does not call Mom that much any longer; I think it just becomes taxing). At least one other friend said she couldn't deal with her and suggested (to me) that get her mental help (although this friend said I understand that she probably wouldn't go).
I'm just exhausted with her tantrums. Part of me wonders if she came here on a trial basis, would that help at all? I doubt I could get her to agree to any rules, but maybe it's worth a shot? It would be months before I could even think of having her come - for a weekend or a week at most. I'd have to get a stair lift as I live in a two story home, plus make sure everything is neat as pin (one less thing for her to complain about). I'm in the middle of a major work crunch, where we are limited with what days we can even take off for the next 6 to 8 months (that will go over well - not). She'll tell me I pay more attention to 'them' (employer) than her and it's just not right! Then she'll ask what the 'others' are doing or think. It'll be wrong, the whole world is wrong, the kids these days! (I explained to her I'm not a kid - I'm within 5 years of retirement). I also explained why I need to continue to work, and she said that would have been different had I only found a guy to marry. Which is unlike her, because 'so many guys' were interested in her back in the day. I'm just tired of it all, almost ready to wave the white flag and say you win. The sane part of me says no, you will end up in a rubber room if you have her move in with you.
I do not intend on apologizing for a thing though. I have when I was wrong, but saying no to her 'plan', which really wasn't a plan was not wrong. She just assumed I would be her backup plan.
I told her how a former colleague, a bit younger than me, can no longer dress themselves, can barely get out of bed. Her response - well with my hands, I cannot do much. Always back to her. Then during her rant today, "I never think of myself". Sure. If this has taught me anything, it's plan ahead for your retirement and find a good facility, ahead of when you'll actually need it. I've also been told, just you wait - I hope you suffer like I have, and you'll be all alone. Yeah, kind of talking myself out of any visit. Thanks for letting me vent again.

Sissisu,

Vent all you want. That's a big part of why we are here for and this site is here for.

Hi duck - I am glad you see you are making progress. The more you can detach from your sis and nephew the better. Realizing our self worth can take a very long time. You are not alone. Keep on keepin' on.

sissisu "you will end up in a rubber room if you have her move in with you." I agree with that. Why do you think it would help her? She seems to have serious mental problems that will take more than a move to fix if anything will. Please continue to look after yourself. She seems to be er own worst enemy.

Finally getting rid of the chest congestion. Going out in the extreme cold didn't do me any good. I cancelled an appointment last week as I didn't want to chance it again. Thankfully it has warmed up for a week or two - a nice break mid winter. I am slowly changing my focus back to the house and my own stuff, It doesn't happen overnight. Life after caregiving is a slowly developing phenomenon.

Gershun - I haven' t hunted your thread down but wanted to mention that, yes, I have detached and gone no contact with my sis but I am a lot older than you are and have had more years to work on it. I saw my sis at mother's last birthday in May 2018 and had some contact with her by email until the funeral in September 2019. So going no contact is fairly recent

You said you still had hope - I guess hope that they would change or that you would. I kept hope for quite a long while, so I understand. No one or few arrive at such a decision easily or quickly.. Whether you eventuality do or don't, I wish you the best.

glad - how is the business venture going?

Rocky the prissy kitty is pretty mellow these days. She is very energetic pouncing on the videos for cats. Pumpkin is getting some winter pudge I think. She feels heavier so I am cutting back on treats. If I give them both some human food most of the time Rocky won't eat it so Pumpkin gets doubles. No more of that! Her bedtime meal is about a tablespoon of wet food, which Rocky doesn't like so she gets a few cat treats instead, I may have t ration the dry cat food. Never had to ration food for a cat before but Pumpkin is a little foodie - becoming a big foodie. Hopefully she will work some of that off as the weather gets warmer and she plays outside

Goodnight all. Take care of you.

Golden, thx for acknowledging my comments. I'm presently taking a Christian based type of group therapy which goes for a fair number of weeks. Tonight was the third session. I think it will help with the family issues I struggle with. It may take dedication and some deep soul searching on my part but I think if I can stick it out I may find my path out of this hope/disappointment/anger merry go round that is me and my siblings relationship. I will keep you posted.

"Part of me wonders if she came here on a trial basis, would that help at all? I doubt I could get her to agree to any rules, but maybe it's worth a shot?"

No, to both questions. Sissisu, please do not listen to that part of you.

MIL is driving me CRAZY! I remember her house while my husband and I were dating. Her kids got placed in foster care because it was always so dirty. Since she moved in, it's been hard to clean as often as I used to. Most days, we are out of the house. I used to set aside Monday and Tuesday for chores. But those days are now for running errands with her, trying to figure out her health insurance, taking her to doctors, etc. Wednesday through Friday are for my kids' various appointments. My son sees 6 different doctors, my youngest sees 4. Today, she was trying to sweep the breakfast crumbs with her feet. She was using her feet because she's lost three brooms in the past two months and I just can't afford to keep buying new ones. She went off on me, lecturing me about how she would never let her house get this messy, how much of a terrible housekeep I am, how I should just let her do all the cleaning because she could do it better. I would LOVE the help, but I learned early on that she just isn't capable of doing it. Her idea of cleaning is picking something up and asking me where to put it, over and over. And I can't just tell her, I have to show her. So it's pretty much me cleaning, but more stressful. Or, she throws everything away. All of our Tupperware has disappeared since she moved in, among other things. Because if she doesn't know what it is or where to put it, she puts in the trash can. Today, I was trying to do some recreational therapy with my daughter when MIL started on the floor. I felt like I was going to lose it. I have tried to find other things to occupy her, but she turns down EVERY idea. She won't color, sew, crochet, knit, sculpt, watch TV, do puzzles, do crosswords, word searches, brain teasers, Sudoku, games on her phone, cook, play with toys, do crafts.... I was really proud of myself for staying calm and pleasant until lunch. I'm in the middle of making everyone lunch, myself, her, and my daughter. I've got two pots on the stove and my daughter is having a sensory issue with her clothes at the same time. I was already feeling a little frantic and she started yelling about how I never let her clean anything. It was too much. I yelled at her. I told her if she didn't like the way the rest of the house looked she could go and just stay in her room. Now she's moping, and I know it'll only get worse. She'll progress to full on wailing by the time the sun sets and none of us, children included, will get any sleep. I feel like I'm at my wit's end. I am praying constantly that the SSA approves her disability and Medicaid and that I can get her placed somewhere else.

Alezrielle,

Sounds like a nightmare. I’m so sorry. Hugs.

Try a caregiving support group. A place to vent and get ideas. I know you are already going to say your stretched too thin as it is with daily tasks. But it's a way to destress. Vent, maybe a laugh or 2. Maybe get ideas of what to do with her. Find better coping skills & ideas.

If you ever watched the show mom on tv about a bunch of ex alcoholics; they became friends and helped each other cope. Checked in with each other, and keep their spirits up. Good luck.

Alazrielle, try to find a way to get MIL out of the house during the day, a seniors centre or adult day care. Make it nonnegotiable.

Thx gershun. I surely hope the group helps. It was a Christian article which which gave me scriptural basis for protecting myself from family abuse by distancing/detaching/ going no contact.I had been aware of bits and pieces here and there but this article put it together very well for me. I wish I had saved it. When things get circular and you get clobbered with the brass ring you know you are stuck.

Alazrielle - what a nightmare!. It sounds like mil's brain is pretty broken. Have you been to your local agency for aging to get ideas from them? CPS no doubt would not see a home with mil in it as suitable for special needs children. I hope you get disability and medicaid for her and can place mil in a facility suited to her level of need.

Sometimes there has to be a medical crisis before an uncooperative person can be placed. If you ever have any need to call EMS or an ambulance for her have er taken to ER for an assessment then refuse to take her back home with you on the basis that you not able to give her adequate care - you are spinning too many plates. The discharge planner at a hospital can find her a placement.

Some here have taken a person for a "visit" to the facility of choice (pre-arranged with staff) and left them there, (S)he gets upset but staff handles it and they settle in eventually.

Good luck with all of this. It seems it has to get worse before it gets better. Let us know how you make out. Venting and getting support helps. You sound totally overloaded. (((((((hugs))))))

Kitties are good. Seems we have the litter box issue sorted - now to stop the furniture scratching. I have to be more regular with spraying. Pumpkin does not use the scratching post at all. I wonder if there is an alternative.

Had a phone call from a very nice revenue Canada lady about my delinquent taxes. I told her my story (106!!! - gasp) and that I was just getting onto them, She said she would call me in a month. Works for me. Once they are done and the estate is finished I won't know what to do with myself. Not having to focus on mother, which I have had to do all my life, or protect myself from my sister (another life long project) I sort of feel in limbo. It feels good in some ways and in other ways is a challenge. All part of life after narcissism.

Actually I know what I have to do - get ready for selling this house and moving south.

Does this title sound like the article? I found it online?

Scriptures Related to Family Violence and Abuse for Christians

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/56707ec07086d761fddcf227/t/56d507f720c6470d703fa310/1456801803813/Scriptures+Related+to+Family+Violence+and+Abuse.pdf

Found another article.

Would Jesus go no contact?

https://kimsaeed.com/2014/07/07/would-jesus-go-no-contact/

Neither of those but more like this one which talks about toxic families and scapegoats.

http://www.dovechristiancounseling.com/Cutting-Family-Ties.html

Thanks!

Hi all, kinda detaching a lot lately. So many threads are just so frustrating to read, especially those that the OP just cannot face reality, and is certain that they know everything about everything.

And I have been working on the business stuff too. Started on the business plan this weekend. I think the class will be ok, but the instructor is very, very, disorganized. Enough to drive me nuts. He will think that he has saved links to online videos, but they are not there. Powerpoint presentations that are on plain white paper, not very creative at all. We will see.

glad - how exciting that you are starting on the business plan, You are a going concern! A disorganized instructor will be very frustrating. Hope you get from it what you need. Saw on another thread you were watering plants. Yikes -we still have a couple of feet of snow, but, thankfully, very decent temps for this time of year -around the freezing point and a little below.

Sissisu, Don't Even Think About It!!!!! That guilt is thing is programed into us and that is how we are easily manipulated into accepting the abusive behavior. Please please please do not do that to yourself. Moving your mother in would be your worse nightmare. I have seen it posted so many times as a very very bad decision.

I feel for you and your situation with your mom, be strong but Do not move her in your home, your sanctuary, your peace.

Golden, thanks, sorry to hear about the chest congestion. I have chest issues from the world trade center and I started using NAC n-acyetylcystiene. The pulmonary specialist last year saw improvements in my lung scan last year. It helps with mucus which is my issue with any irritation to my lungs it getts severe and is so hard and long to get rid of. I have been taking it for years and my cold episodes are less often and less severe. I take daily when I remember one thousand miligrams. If I get congestion I may take 2,000 twice daily.

So today I realize my mother is moving to another stage with the dementia. I am not a geriatric specialist and I realize my breakdown last week was a subconcious morning of losing my mother. I always have a big cry each and every time I see a part of her diminsish over the past few years. I didnt realize it for what it was.

I am also so sad for the family of Kobe Bryant a famous and retired basketball player, who was killed in a helicopter incident with his 13 year old daughter. The news was so very sad and lingers in my heart.

I found a cat litter box I thought had been thrown out years ago in the back room on my floor. It was in the bathroom and every time I would take it out and plan to fix up the bathrooom my sister would put it back. Being my mothers house I asked her to tell my sister to keep it on the floor she was on and my mother acted like she didnt know what I was talking about (of course she wouldnt tell her protege to do anything for me).

Well, my mother in her dementia pulled that litter box filled with litter and cat poop in the hall and next thing I know it was gone. I just assumed my sister saw it and threw it out because I didnt see it. she had bought a new one and put it in back room on top floor and left that one in the bathroom. I was twisted about it.

Anyways I found the box, in the back room and I was livid to see it full of poop covered in the room for at least a year. So I took it upstairs and put it in front of her door.

I expected some form of retaliation, and next day channel five on the tv was blocked with parental control. This has got to be illegal. Now there are only 3 stations on the tv channel 7 and 12. She doesnt even pay for the cable my nephew does or he uses my mother's money to pay it. Its really so sad.

So on my days off I will use a converter box while I am down there with my mother.

Meanwhile she is still roaming, and getting more irritated and active. I never know what I am going to find. They bring her large cups of coffee and I am starting to find the quilts and comforters hard with spills. Yesterday when I found a large wet spot on the bed but coffee cup was on tv table. I had just washed the quilt that I found hard in places from spills. Now I have to do the foam and a lovely velour spread my son sent from Korea.

Gershun, I hope you find the strength and wisdom to deal with the family toxicity.

I am still hurting, trying not to yearn and hope for what I thought was family. It was all a delusion and I blinded myself. I am so glad that my son has embraced some of those morals and values.

When I accepted that my slither and nephew where mentally ill and had no love for me in their hearts my life changed for the better.

It took me a while to realize and incorporate that my sister never cared about me, and that she is a narcissist. I think once you lose respect for a person its much easier to go no contact. I think its all about seeing them for who they are.
And believing it.

Rays of love, light and wisdom to everyone. Good night.

Yup, out watering new plants that were put in last summer. It has been so dry here no snow in a month. All those bulbs I planted, a few are confused and coming up already. You would think the crocus or squills, nope, I think maybe a few daffodils.

Glad, I remember you planting a lot of bulbs. Please keep us posted on the outcome.

I am still amazed at how I am now accepting to go with the flow and let things be in certain situations.

I learned my mother has coverage for in home care for podiatrist. I was also told that on the computer my mother does not have a health care proxy. I know that errors of omission are common when inputting things on computer. I will get on the podiatrist visit and will go down there when I am free and see what the status is on the proxy.I am quite sure my narcissistic sister relenquished her claim to power.

So far my mother's last visit was in September. My slither cancel the one I made in November and was a no show for January. Which is why i called, there are no further pending appointments. Now I have to check to see if she has had recent refills on her pressure medication.

I pray for wisdom and understanding and strengh for those of us in dysfucntional families.

Sometimes I wish my job was to return Karma.

Anyways keep smiling. Hold on and persevere on your love and care for your loved one, and be sure to be just as good or better to yourselves.

Rays of love and wisdom, Good Night.

This group thing I've enrolled in is grueling. The only thing I can equate it to is imagine picking at a scab deep down in the cellar of your soul, it starts to bleed, you immediately try to self protect, the scab starts to form again and then before you know it it's group night and you are picking at the scab again.

Tonight was especially tough. I keep telling myself "it will all be worth it in the end" Please God, let it be so!

Someone on another thread asked where Barb is. Does anyone know?

I saw her on Tacy's good bye thread the other day and it looked like she had maybe changed her name to anonymous and a number. It may have been a temporary thing. Not sure.