The Caregiver & Dysfunctional Families: How are you doing?

nacy - re visits with mother, I ended up visiting infrequently ( 4x a year but then I lived 250 miles away) and only for a short time and as much as possible with someone with me for support. Her behaviour was better than if I was alone. You don't have to entertain your mother, nacy. She has a life, you have a life. I had POA and saw to it that mother's needs were met, her finances taken care of, and after she passed her estate dealt with. I did this at arms length from her and my sis as much as possible. I needed to do that for my own survival.

gershun - I have totally cut contact with my sis. She is just too toxic. If she needs help she has a husband and an adult child and a cousin or two. It won't be me helping her. As I get older I have to look out for me more and more. Taking care of self takes more time and energy than it did. Not to speak of R and all his "happenings." Sis sees me as someone to do stuff for her. As did mother. Uh, uh! No, not me. I'm done with the Cinderella role, the scapegoat role and a few others. You don't have to look after any of them. You did more than enough looking after your mum. Your first priority is to you and your hub. That should be enough! ((((hugs)))) re Hendrick.

Beatty - it's good when we look at our families with fresh eyes to see what is, not what we want, or what we thought we had.

Another wonderful guilt tripping phone call with MIL .
I’m Having to reinforce to DH ……..
Needs vs his mother’s Wants .

Thanks golden, yeah I'm just seeing things with new eyes and kinda of even suprised myself how I feel. so much has changed for me, in a good way.

I told her I'll take her back and forth to physical therapy, starting next week. I'll do that , so I can say I did what I could do "if" ( more like when) her back pain comes back I'll know I did what I could, and wash my hands.

I'll do outings with her for now because that's less communication and she is in a better mood.

I'm in a very good place now. I'm an AC success story. 🤗

Waytomisery, so sorry, I hope DH listens to you! It's so wrong what mil does to him

ThanksAnxiety ,

I can’t deal with entitlement . She is demanding to see my children . I will not ask my adult children to come along with us to visit my MIL so she can interrogate, criticize and lecture them about their lives . They have both had it with her. I’m sure they would not come ..
I have good kids . But my MIL believes she is entitled to know all their business and why they haven’t given her great grandchildren .

She WANTS a visit so she can harp on the things she WANTS from them .

way - they will always guilt trip. It's a given. It's who they are and does not have to define the relationship. Easier to say now that I am out of it. Dh is walking on eggshells? He is a caring son. He does not need to attend to her wants or whims. These narc parents just love jerking their kids around. I think it gives them a sense of control.

You and dh have needs too that can and often should come first. Keep up supporting him in the right direction!!!

nacy, that's good. Do what you decide you can/want to do. Let the rest go. It's not your responsibility. Your bro has POA. It's his responsibility.

Waytomisery, oh yeah my mom tried to do that to me. It all my fault for not raising them right. Lol maybe she is the one that didn't raise me right. mom finally gave up on me pushing my kids to see her more. That was one of my first things I stuck up for.

It's got to be so difficult trying to get your husband to see what we all know. I know my husband has been through this with me at times too, and wasn't sure how to fix it

Golden , Thanks, you are exactly right!!!!!

I have a headache just thinking about having to visit with MIL , talking to us like we are bad children .

And DH is having a hard time standing up to her because she is so frail looking now . She’s got him thinking the kids should visit because she’s old and she wants to see them . She has no one else to blame but herself for her grandkids not wanting to visit .

She is all hyper focused on great grands , so she can keep up with her friends.

way - your kids are their own persons and make their own decisions. It's not up to you and dh to convince them to visit mil. That they don't want to is on her - frail or not. It's just another game to jerk dh around and get him to do her bidding. He needs to cut the strings.

@Golden,

I know DH has to not get sucked in .

My MIL brags about her “ people skills “.
We get the side her friends don’t see .

The passive aggressive manipulative comments . The pleasant tone she uses is supposed to get her what she thinks she is entitled to. But we have always been wrong in her eyes for not doing things her way .

You got it Golden.
Way's MIL has a phone right?
Could CALL the Grands herself.. but no.
Why do the work yourself when you can send out a *flying monkey*?
Why risk the embarressment of calling a Grandchild & risk them being busy & being brushed off? Not when you can sit at home using FOG to guilt your Son to do it for you. So HE is the annoying one calling & getting the brush off.

Manipulation & triangulation.

Ok Beatty and Golden ,

What words of wisdom do I hit MIL with when we visit and she starts in about the kids ??
I need a better way to say “ shut up “ without actually saying it . I’m fed up .

Ive already told her they are adults and I don’t tell them what to do .
But she has very definate ideas about “ family” ( obligations ).
And she believes DH and I ( as their parents ) should be calling out the kids on this .

How about the following 'words of wisdom': "Please don’t talk to my children like that. I am their parent, not you. I do not agree with your views on what they should do or what I should do. If you want us to care for you and about you, please stop trying to force your views. This is not improving the respect that anyone in the family has for YOU. Please be quiet." See how it goes?

And if it's meltdown, just repeat repeat repeat. If it's gobble gobble gobble, start with 'Please be quiet'. Finishing with 'Goodbye' if three repeats don't work.

"..when we visit and she starts in about the kids ??"

Back on out of MIL's drama. Away from that corner she is trying to push you into - being her Rescuer.

Idea 1. Neutral/Grey Rock-like
Are they 'kids'?
No. So correct her. Again.

Well, as you know MIL, they are ADULTS now. They are in charge of their own lives. *then silence*

Idea 2. Twist it
Reinforce how POSITIVE her idea to get in touch with the Grandkids is!!. But TWIST the idea.. what a GREAT idea! Yes you should call them! Do a video call.. or txt, they use that more (if they do). Do you have their phone numbers?

MIL is not going to get past what she thinks the kids should do as far as visiting her . She thinks it’s required . Telling her it’s their decision what they do or they are in charge of their own lives just won’t work . I’ll say it , but she will say that’s not the “ right thing “ for them to do . She thinks that her way is always the right way .

I can’t tell her why they don’t visit . It’s not my place and no one else wants to tell her why . I don’t blame them , there is no reasoning with her . She has always twisted things around . It also would just be the Pandora’s box that MIL wants open . This is why she keeps trying to wear DH down . She wants to talk to the kids in person . She hasn’t gotten the opportunity to interrogate them or state her demands to them in a few years . Everyone just tells her the kids are busy . I’m the only one that has told her that I don’t tell my kids what to do when she gets on my case about doing something about it .

Grey rock we’ve tried , it works sometimes very briefly and change the subject. But she will often revisit that topic multiple times in our visit . I would never suggest she call my kids ( to give them grief) . I would never tell her why they don’t visit because she would call them and give them grief . The kids call her a few times a year and have a brief conversation . They say she gives a guilt trip about visiting. MIL has a history of wanting to be too involved when the kids were young and wanting too much of a say in their lives . We had to go no contact for awhile when they were young to get the message across .

I think I may say to her that my kids make their own decisions of how to live their lives and she should not be so concerned.
And that what she really should be focused on is the fact that she ignores her decline and the need to make plans for it .

Way, I'm working on the gray rock method, I think it's going to take some practice.

Something I read said when I go to moms, do a kind of ritual so I feel like I'm at a job, like where the same shirt or something, I thought that was great advice . That won't work in your case, waytomisery

Gray rocking my family in the sence when I'm not with them is getting easier and easier it's just when I see them my emotions get the better of me.

For me I will never forget that they picked my abusive ex over me. Forgive yes, because I don't want to hold that resentment inside of me. But trust or complete forgiveness is just not ever going to happen.

So I'll let ya know how the gray rocking goes, and see what happens. It's probably a good thing to learn in life anyways .

Waytomisery If you Google how to emotionally detach from certain people in your life, it may help you

way - as you say, mil is not going to change. You will never convince her of anything, and that's not what this is about. Therefore you and dh have to change to get a different outcome.

I think it's really about boundaries, and setting yours at "No, we are not going to talk to our kids about their decisions re contacting you," Then add another boundary which is "And we are not discussing it any more." End of story.

Change the subject or find a reason to leave the room or , if you want to, stay there and let her run her gamut of unpleasantness and don't respond to any of it. You don't need to placate or please her. Work on detaching.

I have watched mother work herself up into a rage while i stayed cool and said nothing. She didn't need a response to work herself up. Then afterwards I needed space to deal with my feelings as I was not totally detached. Her rages still affected me. I detached more and more as time went on so when she was near the end and said nasty things, it bothered me much less - as if a stranger had said it.

If your feel up to it, commiserate with her "Yes we understand that you would like to talk to them more often but we are not getting involved."

You don't have to explain any further, or justify your decision or discuss it any more or even listen to her discuss it further. It seems dh has trouble saying "No" to his mother. Let him practice it before you go there. Tell her you are not discussing it any more and stick to that. Don't let her bait you with guilt trips or frailty or "I'm getting old and I should be able to see my grandchildren" or whatever. Mother called me rude when I wouldn't go along with plans which were very hurtful to me. I simply left the room without a word, and later that day when she was out I packed up and went to a hotel. and never stayed with her again. I stayed in a hotel on future visits so I had an escape.

You know how she will respond. Plan a way out that does not include further discussion of that subject. "BTW I like your new haircut." "Isn't the weather great" "We're tired, we must lie down for a nap." "I'm going for a walk now."

Set your boundaries before you go there. Plan your responses to her. Know she isn't going to like it when you don't play her game. That's on her. It's OK if she doesn't like it. That's not for you or dh to fix.

There's no need to put up with behaviour from her that you wouldn't put up with fro anyone else.

nacy - that's why I couldn't spend much time with mother. It was too hard on my emotions. That's not a failure on your or my part but an indication of the state of the relationship which has evolved between the two of you. If it is too hard on you emotionally do what you have to do to protect yourself. Distance and detach physically and emotionally. Give yourself time and space to heal. and to figure out what works for you.

Golden I definitely will take your advice. I'm not going backwards anymore. Maybe for a week or so if something happens, but I'll be putting my big girl panties right back on. 🤪

Way, I don't know if you have seen the show yellow stone. I was just at tractor supply, waisting time on a rainy Sunday. Found my favorite tee shirt ever! 🤗😁. It has the yellow stone emblem and says " Don't make me go Beth Dutton on you!" I'm never taking this shirt off. 😂 It makes me feel strong. But ya gotta know the show to get it. If you can find something that makes you feel impowered.

funny quote for today 🙂

"I'm not saying it's your fault, I'm saying I'm blaming you."

🙂 “Be reasonable, just do it my way.”

I am discovering another dimension of caregiving and dysfunctional families.

It has to do when two people have worked hard to work through the trauma of their past and no longer live in the victim mode which another family member remains in. They are used to drawing their sense of security from us two as the strong ones, but that's not where we are anymore.

For various health reasons other than age, we find this more and more difficult. We do give each other breaks but at some point, they will not be able to give me a break because they are rightly going to need to pull back at some point to protect themselves. We keep in touch with each other and support each other, but at some point, it will not longer be reasonable nor kind for me to expect much support from them.


Frankly, over 40 years, we have been to hell and back for each other and with each other amid various trials, a great majority of which have involved this relative who still lives in a victim mode. Folks, we are tired!

Right now, I can no longer drive and they are helping out which is very kind. They are basically without anyone else they can trust and they can't trust this one who is still in a victim mode of life after years of being in therapy. They have wisely chosen my youngest son to be their medical POA of attorney. This is a wise move because who knows, if they had chosen me, I may not be available when needed, but he will. All in all, they have come to trust me and my youngest son.

We each feel like tired warriors. My youngest son sees this and has commented. He realizes how difficult things will become when either of the two of us kick the bucket if that is before this relative in the victim mode does.

I no longer feel as extroverted as I once did which my relative mentioned over our Christmas trip. Nope and one day, if and when I get ultra old, I'd like to just sit with just a few people at times for a while in quietness and peace doing nothing more than enjoying each other's presence. Unless, there is something new needing to be talked about, other subjects will not because we will have already talked about them.

It is quite different hearing a person who is no longer living as a victim share about their past and as time goes on, they tell me more and more. They also listen well to me as I've told them various things that I went through.

I'm not sure if what I just wrote is comprehensible, but it is to me.

Healthwise, my current journey appears to be one of discovering what my real health problem has been since I was 46 contrary to earlier medical diagnosis. It makes sense and if true, it explains other problems that developed because that one was not caught and treated earlier. There's no cure for this and thankfully it's not cancer, but it can be treated. Right now, my doctor and I are looking for the right medicine or combination of medicines that will work. So far, 4 have failed.

My retirement economy is fine and improving with my son's help. My house is in good shape and continues to increase in value. I bought a very good quality car years ago that remains solid. While I used to be one of the best dressed in my former work life, I now purposely dress down. I'm clean, and neat, but dressed very much down from where I was. I only buy quality clothes still, but more on the dress-down side. More and more, I find a lot of pleasure in the simple and the small. I no longer want the big experiences of life. I've had more than enough. I'm content. However, some people give me so much that I in turn give it to others who need it more than I do. I think the younger people call this minimalism.

My two favorite phrases lately are adulting and hood. Upon examination, so many problems today boil down to two things. 1. A lack of adulting appropriate for their years and 2. still living in one of two hoods, i.e. childhood or victimhood.

Thanks for listening to this cranky old man whose psych says I've earned the right to be whatever that means.

Yoda, it was understandable, and very interesting, I enjoyed your story, thank you.

And yes I'm healing, and pulling away, and some are none to happy. But I just don't care. 😁

Anxietynacy,

Thanks. The main part that I was not sure of is where I said that in the future about all I'm going to want to do is sit with various people whose presence I enjoy and just enjoy being with them without having to have to have to discuss anything because most of it has already been discussed unless of course there is something new that needs discussing.

Very good, pull away and heal. Let them squirm & not be happy. That is because they can't use you as the source of their happiness. If they want to be happy, then they have to put themselves on a healthier path like we who take responsibility for our lives now instead of blaming things on our past victimhood.

Truly, by 18, if not before, people need to be launched by their parents moving out of childhood and if need be get help to move out of victimhood and as soon as realistically move into adulthood. So many are living in the wrong hood! :)

Yoda, I think I would enjoy just sitting and not talking with you.

Most of the men 70 and over, talk a lot, and a lot about nothing. 😆

One of the things I loved best about my mom was how we could sit quietly on a park bench appreciating nature. Neither of us feeling the need to talk. Just enjoying one another's presence.

Yoda, I have to admit I may of been a bit of a flee yesterday, but it was also a tad bit fun.

Had a get together at moms yesterday, my golden child, decorated officer brother was there. He knows I will not accept anything other than treated corgerly from him. He was decent, but he also kept going in any room that I was not in. So I would conveniently go in that room, he would wait a bit then get up go into another room. Well I couldn't resist going into that room also, and was extra friendly to him

I suppose it was a bit flee like but I have to admit it gave me the 🤭 giggles.

🙂 “My therapist says you need a therapist.”

🙂 “My therapist says it’s your fault I blame everyone for my problems.”