When does hospice become euthanasia?

when I put my dad in hospice it was because I knew he Only had weeks to live. I’m never would put a LO in hospice unless it was to ease the dying process. Hospice is not designed to treat disease or help the patient get better. It’s to ease the discomfort of the dying process or at best, ease the extreme discomfort from a diagnosis that the person’s physician feels is in rapid decline and not likely to improve. Personally though I knew this already, I was still taken aback by the process as it happened with my dad. Though yes, he had severe multiple myeloma and death was likely inevitable, he did not “die” of multiple myeloma-he died from deliberate overdose morphine administration. Period. Was he in pain? Yes. Would he have continually declined? Yes. Was he likely to call me improve? No. But the cause of death was at the hands of hospice. Call it euthanasia or whatever. It is what it is.

I’m sorry for your loss. The hospice company I went through didn’t require a DNR. My mom received services for a little over 6 months. I was an active member of her care. When her med regimen caused too much sedation, it was modified. If fluids weren’t recommended, I brought up the subject. Hospice and the LTC facility offered my mom food and drinks often. My mom lost interest in food and refused to take her medication, which led to her quick decline. Liquid morphine and other medications were administered the last couple days.

I am sympathetic to anyone who has lost a love one, especially a spouse. That has to cause overwhelming pain and grief. That's why I think that some people blame hospice, instead of the illness that really caused the person to pass away. That is their right, but, it's unfortunate to paint such a horrible picture for the public when the type of care that hospice provides is far from being euthanasia.

My LO has been on hospice for 18 months and has taken a moderate amount of pain medication. They provide her just enough to keep her comfortable. She actually improved in her condition right after going on hospice. They look for change in vitals, breathing, etc. to tell what is going on with the body, before giving morphine. I'm not sure I understand why someone wants hospice to help a person who is dying avoid pain, but, then is upset that the pain med was given and their loved one avoided the pain.

There is no financial incentive for hospice staff to end a patient's life early. That means LESS money for them.

I think most people do understand and appreciate the services hospice provides and that isolated reports to the contrary don't dissuade others from contacting them.

I

Yes...& I'm very sorry---Yes!--THEY WILL JUST KILL YOUR LOVED ONES---

I can not/will not leave anyone from 'THE INDUSTRY' alone with my Mom, not even for even 10 minutes.

I tell them... I will give her the medicines 'as needed'....Or else... I'll just GOOGLE another hospice company-PERIOD---

I met my first sociopathic doctor-about a year ago-
(A true sociopath!), she had a thing about death----& she is the most innocent looking little looking thing'----

I caught her,(or recognized her), coming into my Mother's room in the ICU --
I was sleeping in Moms room every night-- (my instinct)-Little Miss Dr. Death came in all sweet-- 3am- and immediately!, again-- started pushing MY Mom into 'agreeing to a DNR'-

I walked over to 'The Doc' and told her I recognized her from a past DNR incident with my Mom-

I told her to finish convincing, and scaring my Mom into a DNR-

"and then when you're done, I want talk to you out in the hall!"

-I unloaded on her in front of all the staff --nursing station-and the 'Head Of Nursing' --were called in..she heard me talking to Dr. Death still---

"Why are you smiling? _____This isn't a funny subject? You've got a God__mn smile on your Fu_____n face??? Feeling A bit Sociopathic tonight are you? --Well that's the wrong emotion for this situation Sweetheart-"

I told the head of nursing about my concerns --about this woman being alone with vulnerable, elderly patients, that didn't have any family with them, to block her efforts_in successfully convincing them into a DNR- through 'GRAPHIC SCIENTIFIC DESCRIPTIONS' of how painful it's going to be when you're dieing- if we have to rescue you????etc.and advising them to opt out of being saved-

The head of nursing told me I could get 'A NO-CONTACT- ORDER' on her-

Which means she can NEVER do medical work, talk to, or be involved with ---or advising other Drs. ---on my Moms care EVER again-anywhere-(& a few marks like that on a Drs. record....?)hmmmm... I said

"Ahh! That sounds like EXACTLY what I'm looking for!!"-and I got one out on her-

Of course the next time my Mom was in that hospital --2 months later -(THEY KEEP NOTES ON PEOPLE YOU KNOW), "her doctor friend" took his vengeance out on us-

I KNEW was going to have to
'GO AGAINST MEDICAL ADVICE'.
So I signed it---(f___k -Y_u -T_o)-

I figure I'll just get one against him too- one of these days- if the vengence stuff keeps up---& put 'em ALL outta work!----

NO INSURANCE ALLOWED
without a Drs. ok___so no paid ambulance ride home for Mom-cracked vertebrae & all-
That's how much they really care--

SOOOOO!......

I put my mom in a Lyft car, catheter bag, chuck's, blankets and all--& put the seat back as far as it could go-

'God' stepped in right on time--& sent 2 nice people to help us get in & situated....they were just walking by --

& they offered to help us----right at the right moment needed, and----

- and Moms' been fine at home with me--- her PROTECTIVE-(chip on my shoulder)-HAWK ---ever since-
_______________

My message to everyone is this---
Don't be afraid to WALK AWAY-EVER-----My Mom's been supposedly on her 'Death Bed' (according to these killers)---for at least 6 years now--thanks to ---The INDUSTRY, AND IT'S IDIOTS
and it's 'Side Effects'----

Google Everything---

& Just pull your loved ones out of the system--

but then--- BECOME A HAWK-even at home--

I'm not afraid TO WALK AWAY FROM ANY HOSPICE COMPANY- OR HOSPITAL-- OR NURSING HOME----even when they talk about 'the deathbed' at me to control me with FEAR---

it's NEVER TOO LATE TO WALK AWAY-
TO FIND BETTER SITUATIONS--

coldly speaking--REMEMBER---THERE
IS ALWAYS SOMEONE ELSE OUT THERE WHO WANTS YOUR INSURANCE MONEY--

Hospice wants to make a profit but not seem greedy.

I’ve been lurking on this forum for several months but haven’t felt compelled to respond to a post until now. Please accept my condolences for the loss of your husband. It has obviously been a very difficult time and my heart goes out to you. Throughout my life, I’ve heard similar stories regarding hospice but always passed it off as misplaced anger and grief. That changed, however, when my father was admitted a few months ago to a hospice facility for respite. I sent him there alert and oriented, ambulatory with a walker, and continent of bowel and bladder. Less than 48 hours later, he had been sedated to the point that his eyes were rolling back and he could not respond. They had catheterized him and put him in adult diapers and left him alone in a cold room with no covers. They had him in a bed with full, high side rails and no call light. Heaven and hell moved that day and I brought him back home. It took several days before he seemed like himself again. I am telling you this not to add to your anguish but to let you know that I believe you. A year ago I would have offered kind, well-meaning words about what hospice does. Now, I recognize that not all experiences are the same and that sometimes the people we trust to care for our loved ones should not be trusted at all. I still believe there are good hospice programs out there, but I’m reminded of how important it is to advocate constantly. I hope you will consider counseling or a bereavement group to help you in the days ahead. Again, I am so very sorry for what you have been through.

My mother has been on hospice since last June and may soon be released from it (although a recent fall may guarantee her more time with hospice). In June, it didn't look like she had long to live and she was ready to go, just wanted the pain to be gone. Hospice did relieve her pain since they can allow more med than physicians do. But instead of dying, mom got stronger and without the level of pain she'd had before, she was again up and moving around (hence the fall a few days ago).

My mil was on hospice care in our home for about three months. She transitioned from home health care to hospice care within the same organization. Hospice was a blessing to us in that they gave us understanding of how her body was going to begin to prepare for death. She lost her appetite, we were told not to argue with her about eating. She wanted to stay in bed longer, we were told to let her. We began to see occasional episodes of fear or panic, we had the ativan available to to soothe her. She lingered several weeks after she finally decided not to get out of bed, being less and less present to this earth each day. Then she had the day that she talked all day long literally reliving her entire life but totally unaware of our presence. And two days later she passed. Hospice didn't hasten anything, she went on her own time in her own way.

When did this happen, SummerSun? There are many points you raise for discussion, but I'm not going to risk intruding on your grief.

I’m very sorry for your loss.

Your logic is very flawed though.

Hospice has no reason to euthanize people. It really doesn’t matter if it’s expensive for the VA. Hospice is being PAID to take care of the patient. The longer the patient lives, the more money hospice makes. So why would hospice be in a rush to kill them off? It’s in their best interest to keep people alive longer, don’t you agree? Makes no sense to kill them off faster so that the VA doesn’t have to pay them as much.

When you bring hospice in you should not just give up control to them.

You can tell them no increase in meds or no to certain medications.

People need to step up and take responsibility for their loved one, not just let total strangers do whatever they want.

I am sorry that you lost your husband, but no one killed him. Hospice is for easing the transition, but they should never be allowed to do whatever they want if it is against yours or the patients desire.

I am so sorry you went through that. Like everything, there are excellent and not so good programs. Hospice kept my mother alive for 6 more months, and they were wonderful to her. If she had tried another rehabilitation, that would have killed her. The compassionate care she received kept her alive for another holiday and birthday. We did have some very bad VNA care before she went on hospice, so yes, there are real variations in care. Hugs. You have been through an ordeal.

What I never fail to question is WHY a person doesn't fire hospice when they feel their loved one is being 'euthanized'? It's not as if once hospice is hired, it's irrevocable. Or that you're being forced or coerced into having your loved one medicated to keep him comfortable, or to have all of his other medications discontinued which is precisely how hospice works. Hospice doesn't keep their mission a secret; they make it clear up front. And, if there are questions, they should be asked.

A person can be taken off of hospice at ANY time and even be sent to the hospital for treatment. Which, of course, is way way more expensive for the VA or the insurance company than an in home hospice service would ever, ever be.

My father was on hospice for 2 weeks and 5 days. Hospice didn't kill him, a brain tumor did. Hospice kept him comfortable for the last 2 weeks & 5 days of his life, otherwise, he would have been full of pain and anxiety. For that, I will be forever grateful to the hospice team. I miss the man something fierce, but I don't blame hospice for his passing. I blame a brain tumor.

My mother's friend was on hospice for well over 2 YEARS. If hospice was in the business of 'euthanizing' people, it took them well over 2 years to 'euthanize' the woman. And when she finally did pass, it wasn't because of hospice, but because of CHF, high blood pressure, and about 5 other serious health issues she'd been suffering for years.

My condolences on the loss of your husband. Please take Barb's advice and avail yourself of the grief counseling services that are offered to you by hospice, or by your clergy.

No Euthanasia is not part of Hospice. They are there to keep the person comfortable. Sometimes it means that the person maybe out of it.

Its been brought up before on this forum about the patient saying he wants no more pain killers and the Nurse gives it anyway. I would think that what the patient wants overrides the Nurse. My DH has a high threshold of pain. So what is good for one person may not be good for another. In my opinion, the patient says he needs no pain killer than he doesn't need it.

I guess ur not Medicare age? Because Medicare pays for Hospice in the home. It won't pay for the cost of a facility but will pay for Hospice care.

I'm so sorry for the loss of your husband. Our veterans deserve the best care. His service to his country is deeply appreciated.

I'm sure that you are distraught. How can seeing a loved one with a life limiting illness be otherwise?

But... I don't get your logic at all.

Hospice is expensive for the VA? Isn't continual aggressive treatment of end of life limiting issues MORE expensive?

Who agreed to hospice care? You, your husband? Did he agree to increased pain meds? Then maybe he was in more pain than he was willing to let on to his loved ones.

It has not been my experience that hopsice is euthanasia.

Please avail yourself of grief counseling offered by hospice. It can be a real blessing. After my father died, my mother, never one to bare her soul to anyone, said that going to some sessions was so helpful, because she was so angry and couldn't figure out how to process those feelings.

In the end, she was angry at my dad for leaving. It was very hard for her to admit that, as you might imagine.

Haven't we had this conversation over and over? I don't mean to dismiss what obviously was a painful experience for you.

Hospice is NEVER Euthanasia.

Hospice is the gentle guiding of a dying person's wish to exit wiht dignity and grace.

No, we're never really 'ready' to say goodbye to a loved one. BUT, Hospice is not there to hasten that ineviatbility, it's to provide comfort and (hopefully) a painless passing.

My daddy was in active Hospice for about a month. My FIL was in active Hospice for 2 days.

Drinking or eating for someone whose body is shutting down is excruciating. I can tell you felt that your hubby was taken too soon, but in honesty, would you have wanted him to 'live' much longer? You don't know how much pain he was in. My daddy was able to wake up between morphine doses and was coherent. He was actively HOPING to die, he would beg me for 'more' morphine and I gave him all he asked for.

I'm sorry for your pain. I think you had different expectations for Hospice, confusing it, perhaps, with Palliative care, which does try to keep the patient alert and comfortable. Perhaps that just wasn;t possible for your husband.

I am so sorry for your loss.

And yes, you shouldn't call Hospice until you are ready for your loved one to go. I can't say it hastens death, but it sure makes it easier. Daddy was in so much pain. I would be selfish to have wanted him to have one more day of that misery.