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I don't think by law a private pay facility like an AL, is under the same regulations that a Nursing home is by "safe discharge". Its just like renting an apartment, you can't pay you need to leave. I know of a local AL who lost their Medicaid contract and those who were on Medicaid had to find other accommodations.
Does the AL except Medicaid? In NJ if you have private paid for at least 2 years and the AL has medicaid beds, Medicaid will pay.
Yes, you waited too long. Its going to be hard to find a placement with Medicaid pending. How long ago was the scam? If over 5 years it won't be counted. Like said, hopefully u contacted the police.
So, you options right now is pay for Moms AL or bring her to your home till you can get Medicaid applied for. Its at least a 3 month process. You apply, prove that Mom has spent down her assets, provide paperwork needed, and get her placed. Not sure if you get everything needed before 90days, thats the limit, you can get Mom placed earlier with Medicaid paying. You need to talk to a Medicaid caseworker.
50 large is a lot of $$. There needs to be a police report filed.
Whomever is her POA needs to do this as a requirement of their “fiduciary duty”. If it is you and you didn’t, just contact the police asap and say you just became aware of the theft. A lot of police departments have a SAFE or community affairs officer that deal’s with things like this. The police report will be needed to ever have LTC Medicaid view the 50k as ok to be waived and not have a transfer penalty placed on her Medicaid application (cause Medicaid might could view the $ as gifted to a person). She has to be willing to sign off on the police report.
Joann's spot on that AL have totally different requirements as to how a discharge can be legally done. AL can discharge a resident for inability to pay and place them in a shelter if the AL wants to. Now that bad bad public relations optics for a facility so they won’t do that but instead more likely will find a reason to contact EMS as mom has presented something of concern (like a TIA as they are real subjective) and needs to go to the ED/ER to be evaluated; then once in the ED the AL will refuse to take her back; mom then becomes the problem of the discharge RN at the hospital; they will do whatever to get you, your siblings, a family friend, etc, to come and take her into their home and she is no longer a problem for the hospital. If your mom is in an AL and stops paying her bill and your state’s Medicaid does not pay for AL & this AL does not participate in the Medicaid program, they do not have to let her stay there.
Now if she’s in a NH, as almost all NH participate in Medicare, they have to have them do a “safe transfer” which Medicare requires. Which means they move to another NH or get sent to the hospital via EMS to the ED / ER. And again, the old NH may not take them back once they are ready to get discharged from the ED/ER, or from a 2 day “observation” or actual hospitalization. If a NH wants get rid of a resident, they can find a legit way to do this.
I’ve got to ask, just how was she scammed out of 50k?
It is possible but I am going to give you one bit of advice and that is to call your state’s elderly protective services, notify them of the situation and make sure you don’t take her home with you. You do not have to take her home with you. The state will take her under protective services if necessary.
I totally agree. Taking her home will result in long term care by the OP. When my mom gets to that point, she will NOT be coming home with me for even one night, not because I don't love her or want the best, but I can't care for her fulltime in this home.
I can't say for certain but I believe there's a specific way to address this in tax returns. You may have to hire a good accountant familiar with scams to help address this, and how to claim it as a loss.
I'm so sorry to learn that your mother was financially abused like this.
This might help, but I'd search for more specific information on addressing scams on income tax returns. This may help in finding care for her.
She should be helped to apply for Medicaid and moved to a facility that accepts Medicaid. Make an in-person or video appointment and also search online at Social Security website about how they will view the "scam." They might also guide you to other resources to help your mom. Please talk to social worker where your mom is located for assistance from other local resources.
While that is happening, please report the "scam" to the local police as well as banks or financial institutions involved. All these authorities should be able to advise you on what to do about the "scam."
Just not enough information. But the short answer is that nursing home care is based on resources, not including a family home. I just dont know enough from your comment. But any nursing home should admit based on her social security and any other incomes and assets. Family home value is exempt. If all she is SS its just a matter of getting her to a NH. Medicare or Medicaid is the business of a NH. That is step one. Then what of the scam. That is going to be a separate situation for you. Has a report been filed? Was it a relative that did the scamming or someone else? Is there any chance at all of getting the money back or was it transferred to a phone scammer? But the private pay can't be part of that problem. And if they can't accept just her social security, then a NH is the option. If and when you might recover the money, she can go back to private pay but right now she will need somewhere to go, home with you or a NH. Word of CAUTION: Do Not do direct deposit to a NH. Just go by and pay each money when billed and DO NOT simply do a direct draft of a bank account. Its too long to go into, but it involves when a resident is classed as Medicare vs Medicaid and it can, and will, switch back and forth on which service pays. Example, your mom will go into a NH as Medicare, NOT Medicaid. If she goes to the hospital for even one day, for the next 100 days her "bed" is reclassed to Medicaid and her direct deposit funds to a home could build up past the $2,000 allowed amount. Go over that and YOU will be billed for the full month of care which could run upwards of $6,000 or more per MONTH until the $2,000 amount is reduced. The nursing home will not tell you this but if you go in once a month, they will tell you there is no charge that month and you know what to do about that $2,000 limit, right? Don't direct deposit and Don't do auto draft on a bank account if you aren't watching it like a mother hen. Just go down and write a check.
Just to clarify I think you switched Medicare and Medicaid here, Medicare is the health insurance everyone has after 65, Medicaid is what one needs to qualify for based on finances and it picks up all the expenses after Medicare Heath benefits. I am surprised there isn’t a safety net for patients in the scenario you describe where billing may shift but that doesn’t affect patient care when they are transferred back to same facility after a hospital stay. I get why Medicare benefits need to be used first before Medicaid LTC kicks back in and I do know that once a patient is gone (a patient somewhere else, hospital and or rehab) the same room isn’t always kept open but I thought they could go back to the same LTC facility when ready. It probably does depend on the greediness of the facility what a PIA!
What you do is apply for Medicaid, tell the caseworker wherever the 50k went, they will either approve or deny but regardless you do not take her home. You let the state take guardianship, the state or facility may file suit to seek to recover from the entity where the 50k went if Medicaid is denied
Try to get help from a pro bono attorney for this. A local social worker may be able to give you some referrals and also help you find an appropriate place for your Mom.
If the funds were scammed by a relative - as in, she gave them the money or her PIN to access an account - the bank will probably not return the funds and more than likely would be considered a gift from your mom.
If there is a police report to show she filed on the person or made an attempt to get the funds back, there may be enough proof to show it was a real scammer unknown to her.
You probably need the help of an elder attorney. This isn't something new. People get scammed every day. An atty will know the ins and outs.
vkay303: You will no doubt need some kind of documentation as to this scam, e.g. where did the $50K go?, who scammed your mother out of these funds?, what was the name of the 'scam artist?,' and any other written records that you may possess so that you can have them at the ready for your Medicaid application. Imho, your best bet would be to hire an elder law attorney as this will be questioned (and possibly denied) by Medicaid. Good luck.
Again, I just want to reiterate and emphasize to OP(vkay303} there is absolutely no need to hire an elder attorney. Certainly not out of OP 's own pocket, and it seems her mother is out of money to pay for one anyway. I agree though with providing any evidence of the scam. Medicaid will want to know where the funds went, so give the caseworker the bank records and explain where the funds went. File a police report as well. But most of all, call APS and let them know also that potentially your mother will have no place to go. They will work with Medicaid, find appropriate living arrangements and potentially pursue reimbursement for any money lost through the scam.
Did you report the scam and get a fraud or crime number, if so then you are obviously being straight about it and hopefully medicaid will write this off any assets (which may depend entirely on the person who processes your application), although as you say mother has to move out of a private pay facility it sounds as though these are limited. I do wish you much luck and hope you are able to find somewhere suitable and pleasant for her to move to, hearing stories like yours makes one realise how fortunate we are to live in the UK when it comes to looking after our elders in a facility - although we seem to make a right b***s up of it if they are in the community in a lot of areas. Good luck.
The UK is a good place to live if you have elderly family members who need care. Americans tend to think of this as "free" care, which it is not. You have been paying for it all along in high taxes and, with the government in charge, they can place elders where they want, which makes it simpler for you (and limits your choices).
In the U.S. there is Medicare to provide hospital services for elders whose finances are inadequate. It does NOT pay for residential (nursing home) care. Families or individuals are expected to plan ahead so they can pay for (and choose) whatever care they can afford. Trouble is, people, naturally, tend to take care of immediate needs (or desires) and end up short of funds... leaving Medicaid (government program different from Medicare) to pay for nursing home if needed. More expensive private nursing homes are usually the best quality and offer a variety of services. Facilities paid for by Medicaid must meet minimum standards of health care and therapy. But to qualify, patients/families must have very limited funds.
We stopped some scam attempts on my and my mom's accounts( family friend who had been living in my house) this past Summer. There was a small electronic trail( right back to the ex family friend) I turned it over to the detective. We have everything well documented as I am POA for mom. Thankfully fast action prevented loss.
If you allow the State to step in, you will no longer have anything to say in your Moms care. The facility is under no obligation to help you look for another place. Maybe APS can help you or Office of Aging. IMO your options are to take her home or pay for her care until you can get her on Medicaid. The facility she is in has to be cheaper than private pay in a NH.
No JoAnn, although I highly respect your opinion and normally agree with you I have to strongly disagree with you here, for Op’s sake. Op does not have to care for mom nor pay for her care. She cannot be forced to do either. Most likely she doesn’t have the ability to safely take on the responsibility anyway.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
You should have started the application a few months ago.
Was a police report filed for the 50k? If not, that needs to be done or they will have a hard time believing it was a scam.
I would be telling whomever is telling you that mom has to be gone that she doesn't have any place to go.
Does the AL except Medicaid? In NJ if you have private paid for at least 2 years and the AL has medicaid beds, Medicaid will pay.
Yes, you waited too long. Its going to be hard to find a placement with Medicaid pending. How long ago was the scam? If over 5 years it won't be counted. Like said, hopefully u contacted the police.
So, you options right now is pay for Moms AL or bring her to your home till you can get Medicaid applied for. Its at least a 3 month process. You apply, prove that Mom has spent down her assets, provide paperwork needed, and get her placed. Not sure if you get everything needed before 90days, thats the limit, you can get Mom placed earlier with Medicaid paying. You need to talk to a Medicaid caseworker.
Whomever is her POA needs to do this as a requirement of their “fiduciary duty”. If it is you and you didn’t, just contact the police asap and say you just became aware of the theft. A lot of police departments have a SAFE or community affairs officer that deal’s with things like this. The police report will be needed to ever have LTC Medicaid view the 50k as ok to be waived and not have a transfer penalty placed on her Medicaid application (cause Medicaid might could view the $ as gifted to a person). She has to be willing to sign off on the police report.
Joann's spot on that AL have totally different requirements as to how a discharge can be legally done. AL can discharge a resident for inability to pay and place them in a shelter if the AL wants to. Now that bad bad public relations optics for a facility so they won’t do that but instead more likely will find a reason to contact EMS as mom has presented something of concern (like a TIA as they are real subjective) and needs to go to the ED/ER to be evaluated; then once in the ED the AL will refuse to take her back; mom then becomes the problem of the discharge RN at the hospital; they will do whatever to get you, your siblings, a family friend, etc, to come and take her into their home and she is no longer a problem for the hospital. If your mom is in an AL and stops paying her bill and your state’s Medicaid does not pay for AL & this AL does not participate in the Medicaid program, they do not have to let her stay there.
Now if she’s in a NH, as almost all NH participate in Medicare, they have to have them do a “safe transfer” which Medicare requires. Which means they move to another NH or get sent to the hospital via EMS to the ED / ER. And again, the old NH may not take them back once they are ready to get discharged from the ED/ER, or from a 2 day “observation” or actual hospitalization. If a NH wants get rid of a resident, they can find a legit way to do this.
I’ve got to ask, just how was she scammed out of 50k?
I'm so sorry to learn that your mother was financially abused like this.
This might help, but I'd search for more specific information on addressing scams on income tax returns. This may help in finding care for her.
While that is happening, please report the "scam" to the local police as well as banks or financial institutions involved. All these authorities should be able to advise you on what to do about the "scam."
If there is a police report to show she filed on the person or made an attempt to get the funds back, there may be enough proof to show it was a real scammer unknown to her.
You probably need the help of an elder attorney. This isn't something new. People get scammed every day. An atty will know the ins and outs.
In the U.S. there is Medicare to provide hospital services for elders whose finances are inadequate. It does NOT pay for residential (nursing home) care. Families or individuals are expected to plan ahead so they can pay for (and choose) whatever care they can afford. Trouble is, people, naturally, tend to take care of immediate needs (or desires) and end up short of funds... leaving Medicaid (government program different from Medicare) to pay for nursing home if needed.
More expensive private nursing homes are usually the best quality and offer a variety of services. Facilities paid for by Medicaid must meet minimum standards of health care and therapy. But to qualify, patients/families must have very limited funds.